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Also, not to get too meta here, but universal health care is in the best interest of the upper class in Victoria 2. Higher population means more customers to sell to and more workers to exploit, after all!
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Aug 19, 2018 08:35
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MaxieSatan posted:Also, not to get too meta here, but universal health care is in the best interest of the upper class in Victoria 2. It is completely meta. In game terms, though, yes, I don’t think there’s any reason to never not pass the healthcare reforms. I don’t believe Hash should mod the game as people are suggesting. If the people aren’t revolting on sufficient numbers to threaten our proud empire, then the plebs will receive no concessions.
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Aug 19, 2018 08:47
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Patter Song posted:Yes, yes, but why should we make concessions when it's more profitable to continue exploiting people full-bore, exclude them from the political process, and shoot/jail/exile the malcontents? I see no benefit to Andalus to instituting pensions or workplace safety laws or minimum wages, and plenty of downside for our bottom line. Normally we should make concessions when we think we've a revolution on our hands and that a significant chunk of our army will mutiny. V2 is just broken in this regard, I guess.
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Aug 19, 2018 09:06
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Jack2142 posted:Morocco & Germany failed as hard in Victoria as they did at the World Cup...
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Aug 19, 2018 09:47
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While voting rights and the workers not having to slave to death in unsafe factories is important, I think we need to remember the most important thing here, i.e. gently caress Morocco.
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Aug 19, 2018 10:50
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Mod the game. I want us to fail on the merits of our decisions and not because weird and immersion breaking game mechanics.
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Aug 19, 2018 11:36
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Hutter posted:Mod the game. I want us to fail on the merits of our decisions and not because weird and immersion breaking game mechanics.
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Aug 19, 2018 11:43
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Mod it for great justice.
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Aug 19, 2018 12:15
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imo it makes extremely limited sense that a socialist party would be opposed to e.g. expanding the franchise to the lower classes or allowing trade unions can absolutely see them not caring much for upper house reform or what have you, but if it's possible to mod in those two, at least, it seems obvious
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Aug 19, 2018 12:32
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V. Illych L. posted:imo it makes extremely limited sense that a socialist party would be opposed to e.g. expanding the franchise to the lower classes or allowing trade unions unfortunely, the way Vicky 2 works parties support either all political reforms, or none of them. This is why the mod I linked gives socalists only a 50% base support for political reforms - better they be tepid on all than reject all.
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Aug 19, 2018 14:00
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Hutter posted:Mod the game. I want us to fail on the merits of our decisions and not because weird and immersion breaking game mechanics.
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Aug 19, 2018 14:57
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Hutter posted:Mod the game. I want us to fail on the merits of our decisions and not because weird and immersion breaking game mechanics. I’m convinced. We should mod the game, and if we expand political rights, Hashim should give us back the direct legislative powers that we had back in EU4. Greater democracy in the game should translate to more gooncracy in the thread. Only good things can come of this. 
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Aug 19, 2018 15:09
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Red John posted:If the people aren’t revolting on sufficient numbers to threaten our proud empire, then the plebs will receive no concessions. Because Victoria is a well designed game that is fun and makes sense, this will literally never happen to a player nation after about the 1870's. Rebels don't upgrade their technology or spawn things like artillery, so by the time the player army has machineguns and artillery upgrades, gunning down millions of pure lowtech infantry rebels with like twelve dudes is the norm, they melt even easier than uncivs. So a revolution will literally never threaten a human player unless they intentionally lose to it for narrative reasons like ByzLP.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:12
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Acting as if modding is beyond the pale is weird because it's not like it hasn't been modded freely to both help and hinder us before.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:37
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I wouldn't worry too much about RPing good people or bad people in an alt-history scenario. It's interesting to see how things go either way. Does anyone remember the name of the LP where in Wiz's turn he became increasingly racist and paranoid and created Croat containment zones for our old ethnic enemies? It was honestly hilarious.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:39
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Dammit! I just realized that we missed an important date. One of my personal favorites, the Latin Empire, just celebrated it's 500th year!
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Aug 19, 2018 15:46
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Hey Hashim, is there any chance you could post the population density mapmode? Now that we've emerged from a brutal hell-war, I'm wondering where immigrants have moved to and what the biggest cities are in the world.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:53
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Flavius Aetass posted:I wouldn't worry too much about RPing good people or bad people in an alt-history scenario. It's interesting to see how things go either way. I believe that was Serbyzantium.
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Aug 19, 2018 16:01
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I feel like the 'socialists' elected by a hypothetical upper house/elite could be an patronizing upper/middle class movement, kinda like elements of the Progressive party in the US. Willing to address some of the material costs of capitalism without dealing with some of the underlying social-political issues. Or as people have pointed out, Bismarkian attempts to cut off FULL COMMUNISM NOW without having any intention of not being more or less an autocracy.
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Aug 19, 2018 16:48
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Obviously all of these problems will be
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Aug 19, 2018 17:08
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Now that we've crushed our greatest rival, we shouldn't get complacent. Build railways? Construct factories!? IMPLEMENT REFORMS!? Nonsense! Great power allies, a well defended border, an up to date army, its called AMBITION and the socialists lack it. And need i mention that the Imperialists would rather strut around in India than take our RIGHTFUL place as guardians of the straits!? There's so much to do, and so little time. Narbuna must be reclaimed, our historic lands in southern France and Provence reconquered, Sardinia liberated from the Moroccan bastards! When all of the entire Andalusi Heartland is under the guiding hand of our King of Iberia, then we may worry about such trivial matters of "Reform" and "Rights".
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Aug 19, 2018 17:14
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Aeromancia posted:Hey Hashim, is there any chance you could post the population density mapmode? Now that we've emerged from a brutal hell-war, I'm wondering where immigrants have moved to and what the biggest cities are in the world. I'll make a labelled pop density in the next state of the world (1900 probably), since it takes a little while to piece everything together, but here's a bunch of screenshots anyways: Qadis is still the biggest city in Europe by far, with its population having just broken the 1 million barrier, so the gulf between us and other continental capitals has only widened since 1865. I'm actually really surprised with how quickly it's growing, feels like everyone in Iberia is migrating there. The nearest competitors (in europe) are Dublin (619k), Paris (560k), Hanover (560k), and Smolensk (460k).  As for emigrations from Al Andalus, we've actually improved on that front! The two constitutional bastions of Europe - Russia and Dual Monarchy - are both losing more people than us, at 6000 and 2000 emigrations a day respectively, whilst we're losing just 400 daily - despite being a reactionary hellhole by comparison (they've both maxed out all their political reforms, except for voting system and trade unions). Both the SGU and CU are also losing a ton of people (3000 and 1000), which is to be expected, since they've just been fully occupied.  Most of these people are immigrating to the Berber Union and New England (both are receiving over 5000 emigrants a day), while Ibriz is gaining just 900. This may seem strange, but although Ibriz is a democracy, they're surprisingly autocratic for 1890 (their vote franchise is still on Only Landed - like us), while both the Berber and New England are fully-constitutional monarchies that have maxed out their political reforms.  
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Aug 19, 2018 17:33
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Huh. Ibriz is significantly less revolutionary than I might have thought. The Berber Union is still ruled by a weird triumvirate of sultans, yes?
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Aug 19, 2018 17:57
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QuoProQuid posted:Huh. Ibriz is significantly less revolutionary than I might have thought. Andalusi DNA keeps them reactionary
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Aug 19, 2018 18:12
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rudecyrus posted:Obviously all of these problems will be The biggest thing Victoria 3 needs is a new class of ship and more involved railroad building.
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Aug 19, 2018 18:15
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QuoProQuid posted:Huh. Ibriz is significantly less revolutionary than I might have thought. If they've got full political reforms, then the triumvirate of sultans are just figureheads at this point.
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Aug 19, 2018 18:23
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Constitutional monarchies are just plain better and far more interesting than presidential systems anyway.
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Aug 19, 2018 18:27
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Monarchies are dumb and we made a grave mistake trying to appease the congress decades ago with one when they didn't give us diddly squat. Now we have a reactionary tit on the throne building his secret police up.
Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Aug 19, 2018 |
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Aug 19, 2018 18:29
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Hashim posted:As for emigrations from Al Andalus, we've actually improved on that front! The two constitutional bastions of Europe - Russia and Dual Monarchy - are both losing more people than us, at 6000 and 2000 emigrations a day respectively, whilst we're losing just 400 daily - despite being a reactionary hellhole by comparison (they've both maxed out all their political reforms, except for voting system and trade unions). The system works 
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Aug 19, 2018 18:42
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Jack2142 posted:Monarchies are dumb and we made a grave mistake trying to appease the congress decades ago with one when they didn't give us diddly squat. Now we have a reactionary tit on the throne building his secret police up. Now, now, let's be positive about this. Now we have a reactionary tit on his deathbed, with his (hopefully) more liberally-minded son taking over all meaningful aspects of Sultanhood and Kingship. The SGA is building themselves up, I'm sure, which is its own problem.
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Aug 19, 2018 18:45
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 the sga
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Aug 19, 2018 18:45
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Jack2142 posted:Monarchies are dumb and we made a grave mistake trying to appease the congress decades ago with one when they didn't give us diddly squat. Now we have a reactionary tit on the throne building his secret police up. Yeah, I'm really regretting voting the way I did on that one considering we had to reconquer the peninsula anyway.
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Aug 19, 2018 18:48
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Hashim posted:The two constitutional bastions of Europe - Russia and Dual Monarchy - are both losing more people than us, at 6000 and 2000 emigrations a day respectively, whilst we're losing just 400 daily - despite being a reactionary hellhole by comparison (they've both maxed out all their political reforms, except for voting system and trade unions). are we...the baddies?
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Aug 19, 2018 18:51
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If we were a democracy, we'd be stuck with whatever ruling party the voters vote for. Monarchies are a straight upgrade because you can appoint the ruling party and overturn election results.
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Aug 19, 2018 18:51
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i still feel fine about voting for that, the presence of a crowned individual doesn't seem to be slowing other better countries down and i bet with all the right-wing voting we've been doing to take the peninsula they would've gotten the king they wanted at some point - at the very latest, just now when we reunified iberia. and i think we saved ourselves a lot of diplomatic trouble but it's hard to prove a counterfactual edit: not only are we the baddies, russia are the good guys
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Aug 19, 2018 18:53
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QuoProQuid posted:Huh. Ibriz is significantly less revolutionary than I might have thought. Yeah, but power is largely in the hands of the unionist parliament now, looks like the triumvirate willingly surrendered their power. Crazycryodude posted:Because Victoria is a well designed game that is fun and makes sense, this will literally never happen to a player nation after about the 1870's. Rebels don't upgrade their technology or spawn things like artillery, so by the time the player army has machineguns and artillery upgrades, gunning down millions of pure lowtech infantry rebels with like twelve dudes is the norm, they melt even easier than uncivs. So a revolution will literally never threaten a human player unless they intentionally lose to it for narrative reasons like ByzLP. It's not impossible, one of the mods (I think it's just NNM) updates rebel technology every 20 years, so it's not beyond imagination that a massive rebellion could overwhelm a country after a massive war/full occupation.
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Aug 19, 2018 18:55
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Zikan posted:are we...the baddies?  oystertoadfish posted:edit: not only are we the baddies, russia are the good guys I don't know if any liberal Russian can claim that they're the good guys when they mobilized their country to wage war on the side of slavery. No great power is going to end the 19th century with their hands clean.
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Aug 19, 2018 19:08
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Zikan posted:are we...the baddies? We're definitely the baddies, but like, it seems like we might be the Noble Baddies who join up to fight the Even Worse Baddies in the third act and everyone just sort of agrees to not talk about all the horrible crimes we committed back in the day.
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Aug 19, 2018 19:11
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It's called realpolitik friend. Oh sure they're against traditional slavery but have no regard for the millions under them. Why allow them a chance to grow strong and never have to change their regressive ways.
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Aug 19, 2018 19:11
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Turns out it doesn't matter how many reforms you have, being the one country to avoid being turned into a battlefield during a hellwar does wonders to reduce immigration
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Aug 19, 2018 19:20
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