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The specific problem with the dumb uncle is he made the classic mistake of retiring at 62, because you can start to receive (reduced) SS benefits then, even though the system is clearly designed for those 65 and older. Full SS starts kicking in at 65 (and gets better if you wait to 67) and Medicare flat out starts at 65 period. If you "retire" before that and have pre-existing conditions, yeah, you are gonna get hosed until 65. I'm not saying it is a great system. I am saying that bad as the system is this guy made it even worse on himself. If you and/or your spouse won't have employer access to healthcare before 65, don't retire, or be prepared to shell out.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:03
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FYI, health insurance providers cannot currently charge you more or deny you coverage due to a pre-existing condition. That's one of the core Obamacare changes.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:34
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Vox Nihili posted:FYI, health insurance providers cannot currently charge you more or deny you coverage due to a pre-existing condition. That's one of the core Obamacare changes. They've figured out how to get around paying hospitals for treatment. Definitely GWM.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:58
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oRenj9 posted:They've figured out how to get around paying hospitals for treatment. Definitely GWM. Yeah, for instance, Kaiser doesn't charge me more or deny me coverage based on having sleep apnea. But they don't cover the cost of my CPAP machine, I had to pay for it completely by myself.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:04
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Ixian posted:The specific problem with the dumb uncle is he made the classic mistake of retiring at 62, because you can start to receive (reduced) SS benefits then, even though the system is clearly designed for those 65 and older. Full SS starts kicking in at 65 (and gets better if you wait to 67) and Medicare flat out starts at 65 period. If you "retire" before that and have pre-existing conditions, yeah, you are gonna get hosed until 65. My mom looked at retiring a year or so early, and decided not to because of the Medicare, even though they could've afforded it (would've been ~$2500 a month). If you think healthcare in this country for old people is bad, you should see it for young people. And all of the old people want to make sure young people don't get access to it. The loving Chargemaster--the document that dictates what a given hospital charges for a given service--is a trade loving secret. Keeping all of your (ridiculously complicated) inflated pricing secret from your customers who will literally die without your services: definitely GWM.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:26
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oRenj9 posted:They've figured out how to get around paying hospitals for treatment. Definitely GWM. Right, the point is that all old people who aren't quite 65 have to pay insane premiums if they want to buy health insurance and don't qualify for the subsidy, not just those with significant outstanding health problems.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:50
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Thanatosian posted:The loving Chargemaster--the document that dictates what a given hospital charges for a given service--is a trade loving secret. Keeping all of your (ridiculously complicated) inflated pricing secret from your customers who will literally die without your services: definitely GWM. And yet certain people argue that we have a great free-market competitive healthcare system where consumers are empowered to make decisions that are right for them, no big bad opaque bureaucracy telling them what to do!
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Aug 20, 2018 21:56
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Ashcans posted:
B-b-but the Amazon shipping is so fast and cheap 
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Aug 20, 2018 22:15
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The irony is that most people in the US like their insurance. Which is part of the problem since many of them are divorced from the real costs of coverage and don't fully appreciate what under or uninsured go through. Also, a big reason wages have stagnated is that employers have to keep increasing non-monetary compensation like healthcare so there's less to go into paychecks. When the ACA was being debated you'd have thought most people in America didn't have coverage, but Obamacare only impacted about 15% of Americans. But a majority of the 85% have no idea how much it costs to not give 15 - 20% of Americans health insurance (hint: it's a lot).
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Aug 20, 2018 22:17
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Krispy Wafer posted:The irony is that most people in the US like their insurance. Which is part of the problem since many of them are divorced from the real costs of coverage and don't fully appreciate what under or uninsured go through. Also, a big reason wages have stagnated is that employers have to keep increasing non-monetary compensation like healthcare so there's less to go into paychecks. This is also a big part of why shifting to UHC is going to be a tough to sell to the lay person, even though by most projections it'd be a huge cost savings. Most individuals would probably see their taxes go up a bit to e.g. expand Medicare, but they wouldn't necessarily see the savings from their employers no longer massively subsidizing their health insurance costs. For people without employer-subsidized health insurance the cost difference would be blindingly obvious, though. And you just know the average American corporation wouldn't pass on those savings to its employees when the switch gets flipped. I'm actually amazed that American businesses tend to be so anti-UHC, considering they are the ones that really stand to benefit the most by no longer getting hosed by rising insurance premiums, plus they could get rid of such a huge administrative overhead in managing something that isn't their line of business. The health insurance handcuffs may be even more valuable to them, but it seems like even that will have to give at some point on the current trajectory.
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Aug 20, 2018 22:24
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Krispy Wafer posted:The irony is that most people in the US like their insurance. This is such a weird statement. We "like" our insurance because between it's a choice between that and financial ruin. In the absence of universal healthcare, we DEPEND on our insurance. Guinness posted:
I can't speak for businesses, but for my boss, it's like UHC doesn't even enter her head. She's anti-Obamacare because she thinks THAT'S what is driving the prices up. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 22:41
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Guinness posted:This is also a big part of why shifting to UHC is going to be a tough to sell to the lay person, even though by most projections it'd be a huge cost savings. Most individuals would probably see their taxes go up a bit to e.g. expand Medicare, but they wouldn't necessarily see the savings from their employers no longer massively subsidizing their health insurance costs. For people without employer-subsidized health insurance the cost difference would be blindingly obvious, though. I think they'd pass on at least some of the healthcare savings, if only because hiring is propelled by supply and demand just like everything else in our market economy. But you don't necessarily need UHC to fix the US system. Banning RX advertising and direct marketing to doctors, letting the government negotiate directly on prices, and expanding Medicaid to cover all uninsured people would go a long way towards making things better. But no, let's allow insurers to offer plans over state lines (which insurers don't even want) and get rid of those pesky pre-existing condition protections. Rotten Red Rod posted:This is such a weird statement. We "like" our insurance because between it's a choice between that and financial ruin. In the absence of universal healthcare, we DEPEND on our insurance. When polled, most people like their coverage. And old people loving love Medicare. It's a FYGM system though to everyone who doesn't have enough coverage.
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Aug 20, 2018 22:45
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I wonder if it's like how most people like their representative but hate congress
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Aug 20, 2018 22:49
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Who is doing these polls? What type of person is being polled? I am very highly skeptical of that claim I loving hate my insurance with a passion but it sure beats being uninsured. It covers jack poo poo and I pay $260/mo. My employer offer a $400/mo option that somehow covers less, so I stuck with the marketplace option...til they strip it away from me anyways. It's a disgusting joke and I can't help but cackle with emotionally unbalanced glee whenever I see yet another GoFundMe set up by people who have "decent" insurance and still can't pay their medical bills due to some unforeseen tragedy or inconvenience God help me if I had kids. We're so hosed lmao KingSlime fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 22:51
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KingSlime posted:Who is doing these polls? What type of person is being polled? I am very highly skeptical of that claim I believe it, it's just an absolutely stupid and pointless poll that really means nothing. Krispy Wafer posted:
This is the important part. People should be listening to those old people who actually have experienced UHC. Side note: my republican Trump-voting dad was raving about his VA healthcare. If I didn't get panic attacks from political debate I'd have pointed out to him that he's taking advantage of *gasp* SOCIALISM! Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 22:56
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Guinness posted:And you just know the average American corporation wouldn't pass on those savings to its employees when the switch gets flipped. I'm actually amazed that American businesses tend to be so anti-UHC, considering they are the ones that really stand to benefit the most by no longer getting hosed by rising insurance premiums, plus they could get rid of such a huge administrative overhead in managing something that isn't their line of business. The health insurance handcuffs may be even more valuable to them, but it seems like even that will have to give at some point on the current trajectory. Those handcuffs are worth a loving ton. KingSlime posted:Who is doing these polls? What type of person is being polled? I am very highly skeptical of that claim
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Aug 20, 2018 22:57
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KingSlime posted:Who is doing these polls? What type of person is being polled? I am very highly skeptical of that claim When you include old people who love Medicare you only need a plurality of happy younger people to still get a majority.  The problem is those people like their coverage and don't think anything needs changing and are afraid they'll have less healthcare if we give it to everyone.
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Aug 20, 2018 23:00
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Meanwhile we got some chucklefuck in this thread who thinks you can totally avoid stuff like cancer, genetic disorders, infectious diseases, physical trauma, etc etc simply by eating well so obviously everyone that is poor and sick totally deserves it
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Aug 20, 2018 23:00
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KingSlime posted:Meanwhile we got some chucklefuck in this thread who thinks you can totally avoid stuff like cancer, genetic disorders, infectious diseases, physical trauma, etc etc simply by eating well so obviously everyone that is poor and sick totally deserves it Also don't make the mistake of aging, or else we'll throw you out like the used car that you are.
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Aug 20, 2018 23:01
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Thanatosian posted:
See: anyone with a HDHP/HSA. Anytime someone tries to sign up for one our benefit agent actually talks to them one-on-one to make sure they actually understand what it is and they weren't just signing up for the cheapest one. Every single person she talks to ends up going with something else. Why do they exist? I genuinely can't think of a situation where you'd benefit from those skimpy "plans".
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Aug 20, 2018 23:02
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If you're healthy and can easily afford the deductible, why not? A deductible of $1350 and a total out of pocket max of $6650 might not be a big deal to some people who want to take advantage of the HSA and are young without any health issues.
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Aug 20, 2018 23:06
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Why do they exist? I genuinely can't think of a situation where you'd benefit from those skimpy "plans". HSA/HDHP is great if you are young and healthy with no chronic conditions. It's genuine "insurance" in that you are on the hook for small stuff up to several thousand dollars per year but are covered in the event of a disaster. In exchange, you get lower premiums and a sweet tax-advantaged savings account. Also a lot of employers literally pay you with "free" premiums and dollars into your HSA to choose the HDHP. Sock away thousands of bucks into your HSA in your healthy years to cover the deductible for unhealthy years later. But on the flip side you have to be relatively savvy to make it work for you, which means it just benefits already-privileged people. Edit: All that said, it's loving dumb that any of this poo poo matters and that we waste any brain capacity thinking about min/max-ing our individual benefits plans and we don't have some form of UHC by now so you can just loving go to the doctor already without worrying about your entire financial well-being every time.
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Aug 20, 2018 23:07
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Guinness posted:Edit: All that said, it's loving dumb that any of this poo poo matters and that we waste any brain capacity thinking about min/max-ing our individual benefits plans and we don't have some form of UHC by now so you can just loving go to the doctor already without worrying about your entire financial well-being every time. Exactly. In a world where even well-educated professionals are swindled by 4.5% rates by financial planners just increase my Medicare taxes by x amount that figures in average costs of people my age, discount it for no cigarette use if you want, and let me be worry free that I can walk into any medical care facility and not have to concern myself if plan option 29 from provider option 194 will leave me with a five figure bill. Or at the very least give me the option to buy into the government-run plan and tell the private industry to piss up a rope if it's the better choice.
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Aug 20, 2018 23:17
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Well all the young people I know are either on their parents insurance, not healthy, or making no/little money  metallicaeg posted:Or at the very least give me the option to buy into the government-run plan and tell the private industry to piss up a rope if it's the better choice. Yes but the insurance industry lobby exists and has money, so
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Aug 20, 2018 23:21
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KingSlime posted:Meanwhile we got some chucklefuck in this thread who thinks you can totally avoid stuff like cancer, genetic disorders, infectious diseases, physical trauma, etc etc simply by eating well so obviously everyone that is poor and sick totally deserves it Nah truly I would prefer my employer pay me what they pay for health insurance and let my taxes go up for UHC. Nobody deserves to die if they don’t want to from something we can heal. I really wanted to see a particular posters reprehensible opinion and thought some bait might help. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 20, 2018 23:36
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Ah fair enough, well consider me baited! This "eating well to avoid all disease" thing has been bizarrely on the rise in my corner of the world
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Aug 20, 2018 23:49
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The harvest is coming in. After the Bitcoin Boom: Hard Lessons for Cryptocurrency Investors quote:SAN FRANCISCO — Pete Roberts of Nottingham, England, was one of the many risk-takers who threw their savings into cryptocurrencies when prices were going through the roof last winter. quote:Kim Hyon-jeong, a 45-year-old teacher and mother of one who lives on the outskirts of Seoul, said she put about 100 million won, or $90,000, into cryptocurrencies last fall. She drew on savings, an insurance policy and a $25,000 loan. Her investments are now down about 90 percent. quote:In the United States, Charles Herman, a 29-year-old small-business owner in Charleston, S.C., became obsessed with virtual currencies in September. He said he now felt that he had wasted 10 months of his life trying to play the markets. quote:With prices down so much, he said he was actually looking to put more money into the markets. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/technology/cryptocurrency-investor-losses.html
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Aug 20, 2018 23:59
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Why do they exist? I genuinely can't think of a situation where you'd benefit from those skimpy "plans". With my employer’s HSA contribution, hitting the OOP max is within a couple hundred dollars of the total cost of the traditional option. You probably come out ahead when you add in a bunch of copays. Even though I’m happy with the choice (while hitting the OOP max this year because of a new babby) it’s really highlighted how opaque healthcare is. Going into an appointment we have no idea how much it will cost, no one at the office can tell us how much it will cost, and we have to wait about a month to get a bill to find out how much to pay.
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Aug 21, 2018 00:20
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Hyrax Attack! posted:The harvest is coming in. The harvest hasn't even begun. People losing on snake oil is BWM but people losing everything to the IRS after being doxxed by coinbase is on an entirely different level and I can assure you there will be some good stories coming out of that.
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Aug 21, 2018 00:22
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I'm just happy Fidelity never got out the door with that stupid Crypto IRA/401k fund proposition they were exploring. Could you imagine if a major firm had made it easy to "invest" in that poo poo? People are unprepared enough for retirement as it is.
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Aug 21, 2018 02:55
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We have a older vet at my nonprofit job. He was brought in by an outside program that basically matches older adults 55 and up, with organizations to learn new skills. They are paid by this other nonprofit around minimum wage, so for us it’s basically free labor. We just are obligated to interview them for positions if they open up. Anyways, this guy is in real bad shape financially. He’s recently homeless about a year ago. Luckily, we’ve helped him get in section 8 housing, food stamps and some bus pass assistance. But I swear to god he’s maxing out his food stamps buying cheeze-its and pringles everyday at marked up gas station prices. Like multiple boxes of the smallest size for variety. It’s such small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, but to put it in perspective, he makes 7.25 an hour with a 20 hour cap per week as part of his grant program. He gets a small amount of va benefits, but that’s it. I’ve helped him with some of his applications for government assistance and I’d estimate the dude is spending like 7% of his total income/benefits towards cheeze-it’s. There are days where I feel like I’m talking with an older Ricky from the trailer park boys
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Aug 21, 2018 03:19
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Krispy Wafer posted:The irony is that most people in the US like their insurance. Which is part of the problem since many of them are divorced from the real costs of coverage and don't fully appreciate what under or uninsured go through. Also, a big reason wages have stagnated is that employers have to keep increasing non-monetary compensation like healthcare so there's less to go into paychecks. Fwiw a lot of the regs impacted everyone. The exchanges and the Medicaid expansion are the headline items, but stuff like no recision and no lifetime caps can be huge.
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Aug 21, 2018 03:21
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Krispy Wafer posted:The irony is that most people in the US like their insurance. Which is part of the problem since many of them are divorced from the real costs of coverage and don't fully appreciate what under or uninsured go through. Also, a big reason wages have stagnated is that employers have to keep increasing non-monetary compensation like healthcare so there's less to go into paychecks. Also, the fundamental problem with bashing the ACA is that people have some form of health insurance no matter what because emergency rooms are required to treat people that come in no matter if they can pay or not. This is the single most expensive way to pay for health care, and we're funneling the people that need it the most through that gate. It's completely insane. The ACA reduced overall health spending because it funneled people away from the emergency room who would have otherwise gone there.
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Aug 21, 2018 04:01
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golden bubble posted:As for more classic BWM, reddit brings Paying my parents' bills is crushing me. quote:I told him I would help him, but only if he tuned his finances over to me 100%. He gets about 1300 per month social security. He had no choice but to agree. He had several payday type loans, credit card debt and had gotten a new loan against his paid off car. He basically used every form of credit he had access to and maxed everything out.
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Aug 21, 2018 04:34
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Rotten Red Rod posted:See: anyone with a HDHP/HSA. Anytime someone tries to sign up for one our benefit agent actually talks to them one-on-one to make sure they actually understand what it is and they weren't just signing up for the cheapest one. Every single person she talks to ends up going with something else. In 2014, without taking into account the tax effect, the HSA was cheaper until you had $8,490 of medical expenses in a year - over that, you could look at spending $1,100/yr more with the HDHP. When taking into account the tax savings via the HSA, the HDHP plan is $250 cheaper than the PPO once you max it out, and cheaper all the way up. Utilizing 100% of the HDHP would empty your HSA, but not a penny over. In 2017, without taking into account the tax effect, the HSA was cheaper all the way up. Once both plans had been maxxed out in spend, the HDHP was still $1,210 less expensive. AND after tapping the OPM, you still had room to leave money invested in your HSA! Most people still used the PPO plan... SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 05:01
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Yeah, HSA/HDHP is fantastic. Had a couple surprise hospital visits plus 3 babies and it has still been MUCH cheaper than the PPO option
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Aug 21, 2018 05:08
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SiGmA_X posted:My company now only offers HSA's, but they offered a $300/1,500 deductible/OPM PPO until this year. The math said that for all people, the HDHP was cheaper. Most people still stuck with the PPO... People are bad at math. Yeah, I don't understand why people complain about American health care. That all just makes perfect, intuitive sense.
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Aug 21, 2018 05:11
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The real fun starts when family members start aging into Medicare and asking you to make sense of what all the optional add-ons would mean for them. Part D's easy to explain with a quick googling(drug coverage), Part C not so much(it's the same benefits as standard Medicare, plus additional coverage maybe, but it's more expensive, and you have to decide which of the 10+ plans' coverage works best for you, and  ). It's mildly confusing as a young adult, let alone the older people who actually need to know this stuff now.There was almost as much confusion when I had to help someone with picking a plan off an insurance exchange - it seems simple, but then you get bogged down in how many options there are that are ever-so-slightly different. I'm 99% sure one of the big reasons people don't complain about this stuff as much as they could is because they can just go with whatever plan their employer offers and not think about it.
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Aug 21, 2018 05:30
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Thanatosian posted:Yeah, I don't understand why people complain about American health care. That all just makes perfect, intuitive sense. 2) I am glad my company pays a good chunk of the bill. HR says our premiums make up 10% of the total medical expense incurred by the company across ~3,200-3,500 insured peoples. I'll know how that truly lines up with the underlying data soon. 3) I hate the American medical system. We have family abroad, I wish America had first world healthcare. SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 05:32
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As someone from a glorious socialist paradise with free healthcare AND cheap (optional) health insurance (NZ), this whole conversation makes no sense whatsoever. And I'm fine with that, I'll just not go bankrupt if I get seriously ill as consolation.
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Aug 21, 2018 05:51
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