Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

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Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

sullat posted:

JFC, that's like, super bad. Unless he works for the administration and ethics rules don't apply to him. Or maybe Texas is more relaxed about that sort of thing.

.1 hours, consultation on ethics issues.

Lol if you don't bill by quarter hour.

# ? Aug 20, 2018 21:40

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 22:21

Pook Good Mook: Aug 6, 2013; ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

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SlyFrog posted:

My career services office gave us actively stupid advice. Like not merely being passively negligent in not preparing us, but affirmatively telling us to ask about things like work/life balance, etc.

It's incredibly how painfully out of touch and stupid academic career services is with respect to the actual working world.

Well, maybe it isn't, as it is incredible how painfully out of touch and stupid academia in general is with respect to the actual working world.

The valedictorian at my school always gave a speech at the dinner the night before graduation, in addition to the convocation address. Two years before me the guy commented that the two primary career services people were leaving for new jobs at the end of the year and said, "Bringing the total number of people getting jobs through career services to two."

# ? Aug 20, 2018 21:40

Nonexistence: Jan 6, 2014

SlyFrog posted:

My career services office gave us actively stupid advice. Like not merely being passively negligent in not preparing us, but affirmatively telling us to ask about things like work/life balance, etc.

It's incredibly how painfully out of touch and stupid academic career services is with respect to the actual working world.

Well, maybe it isn't, as it is incredible how painfully out of touch and stupid academia in general is with respect to the actual working world.

EDIT: Holy poo poo, I read this before I read the following posts, which covered work/life balance and career services well. Seriously, I am in the camp that you never ask about work/life balance. It's the equivalent of asking about length and girth with a scared look on your face. It doesn't matter whether it's painful, your job is to just fit it in there somehow. No one wants to hear about how you don't like that stretched out feeling afterward.

Yeah, my worst interviews were the ones where I tried to heed career service's advice and the only things I got yelled at for 1L summer were things career services said would be major goofs if I didn't do them.

# ? Aug 20, 2018 21:52

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Look Sir Droids posted:

Career services is the absolute most useless part of any law school

Pretty sure thats the Admissions department

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:07

Arcturas: Mar 30, 2011

Admissions exists to directly provide revenue for the school. Career Services provides indirect revenue if it gets alumni jobs (lol) and those alumni decide to donate to the school (which they do solely for their ego and not because of career services).

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:09

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

The joke is because they let people in to law school

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:11

Ani: Jun 15, 2001; illum non populi fasces, non purpura regum / flexit et infidos agitans discordia fratres

Nonexistence posted:

Yeah, my worst interviews were the ones where I tried to heed career service's advice and the only things I got yelled at for 1L summer were things career services said would be major goofs if I didn't do them.

What did career services tell you to do 1L summer?

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:14

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

blarzgh posted:

Pretty sure thats the Admissions department

They�re not useless, they�re complicit.

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:17

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

My view: asking about work/life balance is very much an "it depends" kind of thing. If the firm's recruiting website talks about it at any length, that's an invitation to ask. I wouldn't make it my first/only question. And ask it in a smart way.

BAD: "HEY CAN I GO HOME AT 5:30???"
GOOD: "so, I saw your website mentioned that SS&J ranked 15th on Capitalism Magazine's 500 Cool Places to Die at Your Desk List last year -- what's your typical workday like? why do you think you ranked that highly?"

Also it depends on your options. Desperate for any job so you don't have to fight Toona for methdick in the alley? Maybe be judicious. top 20% at a T14? pull the trigger, rock star

SlyFrog posted:

Seriously, I am in the camp that you never ask about work/life balance. It's the equivalent of asking about length and girth with a scared look on your face. It doesn't matter whether it's painful, your job is to just fit it in there somehow. No one wants to hear about how you don't like that stretched out feeling afterward.

a hauntingly apt metaphor, kudos

Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Aug 20, 2018

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:25

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

Separate post for an ethics-lite question.

We all know I'm a.divergent litigator. I have a newer attorney (NA) working under me. He's first chairing a jury trial in October. Im his second chair - but I'm taking on a greater roll in teaching than normal.

I know that NA has accepted an offer from a private firm that litigates directly with us. Like, I have 5 active cases where this firm is defense counsel. I'm happy for NA to go make money, because frankly he works too hard for government work.

NA has not told anyone in my office (of even me) that he is leaving. He told a mutual friend if ours, who warned me. NA is planning on staying through the jury trial so he can get "experience." I find NA to be insufferable and I do not like to work with him. I tell you this in full disclosure.

Here is the dilemma: I do not want an attorney who is heading out the door in 2 months for a competitor to try a case for my office. I do not think he will tank the case vel sim. I do not think he will disclose privileged information. And the case is not against the firm he is joining. My concern is that I don't particularly care for NA. I don't want to train him how to do a jury trial. I don't want him to later profit (against my client) due to the things I'm teaching him.

If he left after the trial for private practice, and I didn't know he had been sitting on a job the whole time, I don't think I would care. But now that I do know, I'm annoyed. I don't think I have any ethical duty to disclose (but maybe?). But should I tell our supervisor, or just let it go?

What if you switched him to a case involving that firm? He would have to tell you then right?

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:31

Nirvikalpa: Aug 20, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

nm posted:

Clinics are the only good thing in law school, where you get to go play real lawyer. I got to try a few trials.
I hated law school (I did like the free time and day drinking) and clinics were the only thing I liked. It is what got me through law school and gave me something to talk about in interviews and focused my interests.
Schools have different ones, but they tend to be aimed at poorer people, so you'll have housing, family stuff, and my school had programs with the local prosecutors and PDs offices where you could actually do extremely minor criminal poo poo in a courtroom with a dude with a robe on.

I don't think my friend is interested in that sort of thing at all.

So I guess the overall conclusion is leaning slightly to "not drop out?" Otherwise I think he should at least not drop out until he has something else lined up, right?

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:38

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

Nirvikalpa posted:

I don't think my friend is interested in that sort of thing at all.

So I guess the overall conclusion is leaning slightly to "not drop out?" Otherwise I think he should at least not drop out until he has something else lined up, right?

buy him an account

# ? Aug 20, 2018 22:42

blarzgh: Apr 14, 2009; SNITCHIN' RANDY; Grimey Drawer

Got a good one.

Another lawyer in my firm represents an HOA; Plaintiff was a landscaping company that botched a job, walked off, and is now demanding payment. Plaintiff sues for breach of contract.

First set of discovery request to P, Request No. 1: Please produce the contract.

In the instructions: "The Contract" shall have the same meaning as the term in Plaintiff's Original Petition.

Objection: "The request is vague, overbroad, unduly burdensome, calls for a legal conclusion, etc..."

Every other request after that, same objections, copy/pasted. No docs produced. Same objections to every interrogatory, every request for admission.

Attorney drafts a very cordial, direct letter, which goes through each objection, asking for the legal and factual basis of the objection. Sends it, asks for a conference call.

On the phone today:

Our Attorney: "Ok, so can we get a copy of the contract?"
Opposing Counsel: "Look, we said you can come inspect it[at their office in another state]."
OA: "I know you did, and we can argue about that later, but can you not even scan me in a copy so I know what the contract your suing on is?"
OC: : "No."
OA: "Ok, then. Can we talk about your objections to see if we can avoid having a motion to compel? Lets start with Request 1 - you say the request for the contract is 'vague.' Could you explain that to me?"
OC: "Well its vague. How do i know what contract you're asking for??"
OA: "In our instructions, it says the contract is the contract you refer to in your petition. I'm not seeing how thats so vague you can't, in good faith, respond to the request."
OC: "Well then you're just plain stupid. And if you file a motion to compel, we WILL be asking for our attorneys fees. Take care."
*click*

# ? Aug 20, 2018 23:05

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

blarzgh posted:

Pretty sure thats the Admissions department

I know a guy from law school who failed the bar exam 3 (or more) times. Not sure if he ever passed, actually.

Turns out he works for the school's admissions department now.

# ? Aug 20, 2018 23:19

Look Sir Droids: Jan 27, 2015; The tracks go off in this direction.

Vox Nihili posted:

I know a guy from law school who failed the bar exam 3 (or more) times. Not sure if he ever passed, actually.

Turns out he works for the school's admissions department now.

Did career services find him the job?

# ? Aug 20, 2018 23:22

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

Look Sir Droids posted:

Did career services find him the job?

They were probably involved. Mission accomplished, I guess.

# ? Aug 20, 2018 23:24

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

blarzgh posted:

Got a good one.

Another lawyer in my firm represents an HOA; Plaintiff was a landscaping company that botched a job, walked off, and is now demanding payment. Plaintiff sues for breach of contract.

First set of discovery request to P, Request No. 1: Please produce the contract.

In the instructions: "The Contract" shall have the same meaning as the term in Plaintiff's Original Petition.

Objection: "The request is vague, overbroad, unduly burdensome, calls for a legal conclusion, etc..."

Every other request after that, same objections, copy/pasted. No docs produced. Same objections to every interrogatory, every request for admission.

Attorney drafts a very cordial, direct letter, which goes through each objection, asking for the legal and factual basis of the objection. Sends it, asks for a conference call.

On the phone today:

Our Attorney: "Ok, so can we get a copy of the contract?"
Opposing Counsel: "Look, we said you can come inspect it[at their office in another state]."
OA: "I know you did, and we can argue about that later, but can you not even scan me in a copy so I know what the contract your suing on is?"
OC: : "No."
OA: "Ok, then. Can we talk about your objections to see if we can avoid having a motion to compel? Lets start with Request 1 - you say the request for the contract is 'vague.' Could you explain that to me?"
OC: "Well its vague. How do i know what contract you're asking for??"
OA: "In our instructions, it says the contract is the contract you refer to in your petition. I'm not seeing how thats so vague you can't, in good faith, respond to the request."
OC: "Well then you're just plain stupid. And if you file a motion to compel, we WILL be asking for our attorneys fees. Take care."
*click*

What the hell is wrong with this profession

# ? Aug 20, 2018 23:29

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

I thought our career services were pretty good and helpful, to the extent that I could be helped by anyone. Gave me good advice on resumes and interviews, even hooked me up with a phone interview in 1L.

I've been asked to hold a talk and share my experiences when I return to class. :unsmith:

# ? Aug 20, 2018 23:37

Unamuno: May 31, 2003; Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

blarzgh posted:

Got a good one.

Another lawyer in my firm represents an HOA; Plaintiff was a landscaping company that botched a job, walked off, and is now demanding payment. Plaintiff sues for breach of contract.

First set of discovery request to P, Request No. 1: Please produce the contract.

In the instructions: "The Contract" shall have the same meaning as the term in Plaintiff's Original Petition.

Objection: "The request is vague, overbroad, unduly burdensome, calls for a legal conclusion, etc..."

Every other request after that, same objections, copy/pasted. No docs produced. Same objections to every interrogatory, every request for admission.

Attorney drafts a very cordial, direct letter, which goes through each objection, asking for the legal and factual basis of the objection. Sends it, asks for a conference call.

On the phone today:

Our Attorney: "Ok, so can we get a copy of the contract?"
Opposing Counsel: "Look, we said you can come inspect it[at their office in another state]."
OA: "I know you did, and we can argue about that later, but can you not even scan me in a copy so I know what the contract your suing on is?"
OC: : "No."
OA: "Ok, then. Can we talk about your objections to see if we can avoid having a motion to compel? Lets start with Request 1 - you say the request for the contract is 'vague.' Could you explain that to me?"
OC: "Well its vague. How do i know what contract you're asking for??"
OA: "In our instructions, it says the contract is the contract you refer to in your petition. I'm not seeing how thats so vague you can't, in good faith, respond to the request."
OC: "Well then you're just plain stupid. And if you file a motion to compel, we WILL be asking for our attorneys fees. Take care."
*click*

Winning more in discovery sanctions than their putative claim is worth sounds like a fun side quest in this game.

# ? Aug 20, 2018 23:38

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

Throatwarbler did it right and I did it wrong. It doesn�t matter if you are a good person or have good intentions. All that matters is you know the right people and do the right dance. You can insult the largest religion in the profession so long as you play the game.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 00:06

Hot Dog Day #91: Jun 19, 2003

Throatwarbler posted:

I thought our career services were pretty good and helpful, to the extent that I could be helped by anyone. Gave me good advice on resumes and interviews, even hooked me up with a phone interview in 1L.

I've been asked to hold a talk and share my experiences when I return to class.

You are a loving monster.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 00:08

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; bone shaking.
soul baking.

I know, right? He could at least post the emails.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 00:16

Yuns: Aug 19, 2000; There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.

I used to do so much interviewing for call backs. Thank god I never had to go do OCI. I actually won't reject people automatically for asking about work-life balance but I am very honest with people who ask about it. I tell them there is no such thing and any biglaw firm that talks about it or claims that they are a lifestyle firm are a bunch of loving liars. I got an interview manual for my firm and the list of questions that I'm not allowed to ask candidates is amazingly long. We've generally done the academic screening and one interview by the time I see them. My main concerns are could I stand being stuck in a conference room late with this person, is this someone who I can present to clients, does this person have some degree of maturity and judgment, would they be a good fit for the firm/profession, and are they actually interested in the firm.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 00:26

EwokEntourage: Jun 10, 2008; BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Throatwarbler posted:

I thought our career services were pretty good and helpful, to the extent that I could be helped by anyone. Gave me good advice on resumes and interviews, even hooked me up with a phone interview in 1L.

I've been asked to hold a talk and share my experiences when I return to class.

You had a good run but you jumped the shark with the slavery comments and now we are in that last season where no one gives a poo poo any more and the story lines are stupid

# ? Aug 21, 2018 00:30

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

You are a loving monster.

He's a lying troll. There's no way that happened

# ? Aug 21, 2018 00:33

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Mods please change the thread name, dude is full of poo poo

# ? Aug 21, 2018 00:36

Vox Nihili: May 28, 2008

Mr. Nice! posted:

Throatwarbler did it right and I did it wrong. It doesn’t matter if you are a good person or have good intentions. All that matters is you know the right people and do the right dance. You can insult the largest religion in the profession so long as you play the game.

Whoa, who went and insulted Catholicism?

# ? Aug 21, 2018 01:44

Tipps: Apr 18, 2006; party in the front

business in the back

Just another day in weirdlaw.

An employee in one of our offices is convinced that there are ghosts in the office, and is very afraid of them. He has begun telling his coworkers about his paranormal experiences, resulting in two camps forming.

A large chunk of his colleagues are now super annoyed with him because he is too preoccupied with ghosts to do his job and is causing disruption.

A larger chunk of his colleagues are now equally afraid of the ghosts and are too scared to go into certain parts of the building, drastically impacting workplace productivity.

I have been asked for legal advice re: how/whether to discipline the disruptor, and what to do about the ghost-fearing employees.

This is actually not the first time I've heard stories about there being ghosts in this particular building. :ghost:

# ? Aug 21, 2018 02:25

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

blarzgh posted:

OC: "Well then you're just plain stupid. And if you file a motion to compel, we WILL be asking for our attorneys fees. Take care."
*click*

lol. GOVERN YOURSELF ACCORDINGLY

I will never understand non-litigators, how can you not want this poo poo in your life

# ? Aug 21, 2018 02:41

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

EwokEntourage posted:

You had a good run but you jumped the shark with the slavery comments and now we are in that last season where no one gives a poo poo any more and the story lines are stupid

I honest to god don't even know why people reply to him anymore, it's gone from subtle fun trolling to the kind of lazy, sloppy poo poo you'd see out of some TTT prosecutor's office in a New England backwater

# ? Aug 21, 2018 02:44

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

Tipps posted:

Just another day in weirdlaw.

An employee in one of our offices is convinced that there are ghosts in the office, and is very afraid of them. He has begun telling his coworkers about his paranormal experiences, resulting in two camps forming.

A large chunk of his colleagues are now super annoyed with him because he is too preoccupied with ghosts to do his job and is causing disruption.

A larger chunk of his colleagues are now equally afraid of the ghosts and are too scared to go into certain parts of the building, drastically impacting workplace productivity.

I have been asked for legal advice re: how/whether to discipline the disruptor, and what to do about the ghost-fearing employees.

This is actually not the first time I've heard stories about there being ghosts in this particular building.

this is your once in a lifetime chance to get paid to draft a motion compelling the ghosts to appear

# ? Aug 21, 2018 02:53

Unamuno: May 31, 2003; Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

Tipps posted:

I have been asked for legal advice re: how/whether to discipline the disruptor, and what to do about the ghost-fearing employees.

IIRC regular ol' belief in ghosts isn't covered by Title VII, so is the advice to prank him real good before firing him or what?

# ? Aug 21, 2018 03:13

Eminent Domain: Sep 23, 2007

Tipps posted:

Just another day in weirdlaw.

An employee in one of our offices is convinced that there are ghosts in the office, and is very afraid of them. He has begun telling his coworkers about his paranormal experiences, resulting in two camps forming.

A large chunk of his colleagues are now super annoyed with him because he is too preoccupied with ghosts to do his job and is causing disruption.

A larger chunk of his colleagues are now equally afraid of the ghosts and are too scared to go into certain parts of the building, drastically impacting workplace productivity.

I have been asked for legal advice re: how/whether to discipline the disruptor, and what to do about the ghost-fearing employees.

This is actually not the first time I've heard stories about there being ghosts in this particular building.

If there's one thing King of Dragon Pass taught me, it is that you need to launch a legal claim against the ghosts.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 03:24

Meatbag Esq.: May 3, 2006; Hmm which internet meme should go here again?

Adar posted:

this is your once in a lifetime chance to get paid to draft a motion compelling the ghosts to appear

It will probably be dismissed for service failure but that's the point isn't it.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 03:39

Abugadu: Jul 12, 2004; 1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

nm posted:

What do you do with your inmates?
Do you have a giant prison on Guam or do you do like Hawaii and send a bunch of them stateside?

Big prison for locally convicted, with a jail near the courthouse for pre-trial detainees. Federal convicts go stateside.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 05:55

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Meatbag Esq. posted:

It will probably be dismissed for service failure but that's the point isn't it.

I'm sure there is someone who has combined being a process server with doing seances.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 07:08

Abugadu: Jul 12, 2004; 1st Sgt. Matthews and the men have Procured for me a cummerbund from a traveling gypsy, who screeched Victory shall come at a Terrible price. i am Honored.

It's fairly simple, using time-honored techniques -

*sits hunched over Ouija board*

"i...d...o...n...o...t...w...i...s...h...t...o...c...r...e...a...t... AW GODDAMNIT"
*flips over board*

# ? Aug 21, 2018 07:14

TheMadMilkman: Dec 10, 2007

Ghosts?

While discussing whether you were required to disclose that a house was haunted, our property professor mentioned that his sister�s house was haunted. He said that you would be sitting in the house and it would feel like everything moved.

An older classmate, who had worked as a general contractor before law school, asked where she lived. After being told what part of town it was, she basically said that ya, the water table out there is so high that you can feel it rise and fall. Those houses never should have been built and she�s going to have foundation issues.

Last I heard the sister moved. And the houses there all have foundation issues.

# ? Aug 21, 2018 07:41

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Mr. Nice! posted:

I know, right? He could at least post the emails.

Russia, if you�re listening, just post the email, okay?

# ? Aug 21, 2018 07:43

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 5, 2024 22:21

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

TheMadMilkman posted:

Ghosts?

While discussing whether you were required to disclose that a house was haunted, our property professor mentioned that his sister�s house was haunted. He said that you would be sitting in the house and it would feel like everything moved.

An older classmate, who had worked as a general contractor before law school, asked where she lived. After being told what part of town it was, she basically said that ya, the water table out there is so high that you can feel it rise and fall. Those houses never should have been built and she�s going to have foundation issues.

Last I heard the sister moved. And the houses there all have foundation issues.

Lol

Evil spirits, shaking the earth beneath our very feet! Angry gods cast bolts of lightning from the sky, splitting the air with thunder! When the mountain spirit makes sex with the fire elemental, his molten seed spews forth from the ground and engulfs the world!

# ? Aug 21, 2018 13:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Law Megathread: the stunner off the top rope that everyone but the defense saw coming

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