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Has anyone compared the 5e tomb of horrors to the original?
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Aug 20, 2018 16:37
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Olanphonia posted:Has anyone compared the 5e tomb of horrors to the original? *now with slightly less racism. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 16:44
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sebmojo posted:Has anyone here run the 1e tomb of horrors? it's actually amazing. you just need a phb and a dmg, but it's basically system free - and it fits together like a clockwork watch. use the premades, obviously, and maybe give everyone two characters, but it's enormously fun. It's a tournament module so I have legit wanted to run it straight as a tournament game for a group for years. Use the pregenerated characters (only one has shatter  ), and just let people try.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:00
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The Question IRL posted:And if you add Arch go a creatures name, that just means it's the most powerful iteration of it. 5e agreed with you. Which is why guys like Vecna and Acererak are called Archliches.
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Aug 20, 2018 18:21
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Toplowtech posted:It's better than the original for the only reason it gives you an actual motive to actually try to enter and finish the drat tomb. And it also do that by putting that tomb at the end of what is basically a remake* of Isle of the Ape, the other original bullshit module. Well the Tomb of Annihilation is less the Tomb of Horrors and more inspired by it. The layouts and traps are not the same or anything.
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Aug 20, 2018 18:32
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People remember a few of the cool traps but 90% of tomb of horrors is just walking around hallways trying to find secret doors that have literally no hints or clues and are just plastered over or otherwise hidden. Hell you have to dig into the side of a hill to get into the tomb, and there are two fake tunnels that just straight up colapse and kill you without warning. Its relentlessly unfun.
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Aug 20, 2018 22:55
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Kadath posted:People remember a few of the cool traps but 90% of tomb of horrors is just walking around hallways trying to find secret doors that have literally no hints or clues and are just plastered over or otherwise hidden. Hell you have to dig into the side of a hill to get into the tomb, and there are two fake tunnels that just straight up colapse and kill you without warning. Its relentlessly unfun. Ah, the Halls of Monty. A classic trap.
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Aug 20, 2018 23:20
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Kadath posted:People remember a few of the cool traps but 90% of tomb of horrors is just walking around hallways trying to find secret doors that have literally no hints or clues and are just plastered over or otherwise hidden. Hell you have to dig into the side of a hill to get into the tomb, and there are two fake tunnels that just straight up colapse and kill you without warning. Its relentlessly unfun. Having run it this is untrue, it's very cleverly written. You do need to think, but if you approach it vaguely methodically and don't mind a few deaths it's fine.
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Aug 20, 2018 23:30
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Gygax's party beat the tomb on their first try. The whole point of it is to be the thing you throw at really tough groups. It's a challenge, not a punishment.
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Aug 21, 2018 02:59
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Yeah, just playing it on casual game night is Not A Good Idea, but if you've got a savvy group who know what they're getting into...
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Aug 21, 2018 05:13
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My main gripe with it is all the 'say something happens and if your players don't yell out what they're doing fast enough kill them' stuff - it's just arbitary nonsense systems. If you run it as written you're expected to write down the actions of all your players who are yelling them out simultaneously in a module designed for players running multiple characters - it's stupid and didn't work at the table at all when I ran this. Also lots of stuff like walls that list specific spells that can deal with them and nothing else can work, traps that explicitly can't be detected by trap detection spells, secret doors that can't be found by secret door detection or searching unless you say you're rapping on them, the invisible gem that can't be found with detect invisibility, lots of required secrets doors that can only be found on a 1/6 chance... I'm fine with the creative puzzles but half the dungeon is boring stuff like this that you can't really experiment with or engage with - it's just super-boring pixelbitching.
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Aug 21, 2018 06:15
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Just do what one guy's group did: enslave a few of the vampires from the nearby town, then abuse them as undead minesweepers to trigger all the traps in the rooms.
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Aug 21, 2018 08:19
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PMush Perfect posted:Yeah, just playing it on casual game night is Not A Good Idea, but if you've got a savvy group who know what they're getting into... I actually kind of disagree with you here because Tomb of Horrors is such an isolated thing that it's kind of perfect for casual game night. You just introduce it by saying, "Wanna try to get through the hardest dungeon of all time?" And if they all die to the sphere of annihilation then you break out Agricola or something.
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Aug 21, 2018 12:32
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I think the whole fun of Tomb of Horrors is that it's a dungeon that hates you and is nearly impossible. The players should be aware of this, go in expecting to die, and laugh when they get tricked by its evil nonsense. It's more about, "how far did you get?" than whether or not you actually defeated Acererak, which is close to impossible unless you're going in with a bonkers stacked up party and you're incredibly careful/lucky while navigating the Tomb. It's definitely not something to run in a long-form campaign with beloved characters who have storylines &c. Or like, run it as a non-canon oneshot for that party, because at least one of them will almost certainly die to something completely unfair.
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Aug 21, 2018 12:49
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Yeah, when even the MacGuffin that’s supposed to let you beat Acerak also has a random chance of killing you if you hold it wrong you either accept your inevitable doom or try to cheat the DM back by enslaving a nearby village and making them explore or something.
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Aug 21, 2018 12:56
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Nothing wrong with a meatgrinder one-off but Tomb of Horrors is carefully designed so that the optimal way of exploring it is to be extremely boring and methodical and carefully search every square. Like even finding the entrance is explicitly 'spend five hours searching every single square of the perimeter of the dungeon, taking ten minutes per square, and you're required to specify exactly how you poke at the gravel - if you poke low then you just find nothing'. A greatest hits cutdown version of it would be pretty useful though - skip the stuff that encourages carefully searching every square and focus on the 'what do you do here' part.
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Aug 21, 2018 13:23
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Also Revenge of the Iron Lich is a pretty sweet adventure in this vein - in that case the whole place is filled with necrotic gas which will kill you after 4 hrs so you're on a clock, which solves so many issues with ToH at the table. Also way more decapitating cogwheels instead of boring old spikes.
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Aug 21, 2018 13:28
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xiw posted:Also Revenge of the Iron Lich is a pretty sweet adventure in this vein - in that case the whole place is filled with necrotic gas which will kill you after 4 hrs so you're on a clock, which solves so many issues with ToH at the table. Also way more decapitating cogwheels instead of boring old spikes. This reminds me of a nice little one-page dungeon adventure I stumbled upon on the web, where the party starts out butt-naked at the bottom and have to escape before the entire place floods. 
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Aug 21, 2018 14:26
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Sorry to interrupt Dungeon Chat: we have a new strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1136.html
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Aug 21, 2018 16:47
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 rich with the self-own
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Aug 21, 2018 16:48
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Doesn't feel like 5 1/2 years to be though I guess I've gone from having no kids to having one in kindergarten since then
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Aug 21, 2018 17:02
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Aw, Minnie got her eternal reward. 
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Aug 21, 2018 17:05
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Well, this confirms that Valhalla is indeed based on Ysgard, and that it's a different afterlife from the Mt. Celestia-alike that Roy went to. Cool beans.
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Aug 21, 2018 17:08
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Bariaur mention spotted. Those guys haven't been around since 2e Planescape have they?
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Aug 21, 2018 17:11
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Potsticker posted:Bariaur mention spotted. Those guys haven't been around since 2e Planescape have they? I think they were a race in 4th edition, thanks to the digital version of Dungeon?
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Aug 21, 2018 17:40
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Potsticker posted:Bariaur mention spotted. Those guys haven't been around since 2e Planescape have they? They were in one of the planar handbooks in 3.0, but not 3.5.
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Aug 21, 2018 17:48
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Did they all wink out of existence at the first strip?
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Aug 21, 2018 18:10
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OHHHH so THAT'S why the clerics of Thor hate trees
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Aug 21, 2018 18:27
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PMush Perfect posted:Did they all wink out of existence at the first strip? Those weird noodly monsters are a holdover from 3.0 if I recall correctly so I'd say they are still around just very confused about whether or not they have willchecks and the like. Edit- they're called Flumphs
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Aug 21, 2018 18:39
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LashLightning posted:I think they were a race in 4th edition, thanks to the digital version of Dungeon? 4th was kind of a mess with everything ending being easier to work with to just pay for the subscription to use the online tools that I definitely feel like I missed stuff, so that's not a surprise I missed this. Thanks. reignofevil posted:Those weird noodly monsters are a holdover from 3.0 if I recall correctly so I'd say they are still around just very confused about whether or not they have willchecks and the like. Flumphs are old school back from the original Fiend Folio.
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Aug 21, 2018 18:44
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Calaveron posted:OHHHH so THAT'S why the clerics of Thor hate trees I think roots growing into tunnels and stuff is also a factor, but yeah. Thor "smiting" trees is a thing for them.
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Aug 21, 2018 19:10
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Roland Jones posted:I think roots growing into tunnels and stuff is also a factor, but yeah. Thor "smiting" trees is a thing for them. Yep.
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Aug 21, 2018 19:20
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xiw posted:Also Revenge of the Iron Lich is a pretty sweet adventure in this vein - in that case the whole place is filled with necrotic gas which will kill you after 4 hrs so you're on a clock, which solves so many issues with ToH at the table. Also way more decapitating cogwheels instead of boring old spikes. Ohhhh, gently caress yeah. Ran this twice, my party won it the second time with literally one minute to spare. Fourthcore owned.
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Aug 21, 2018 20:16
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Fane of the Heresiarch was fun, too... with some flexibility for players doing unexpected things.
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Aug 21, 2018 20:23
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Slashrat posted:This reminds me of a nice little one-page dungeon adventure I stumbled upon on the web, where the party starts out butt-naked at the bottom and have to escape before the entire place floods. Where are you supposed to get a holy symbol for room 4?
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Aug 21, 2018 23:16
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Who What Now posted:Where are you supposed to get a holy symbol for room 4? Presumably that's so whomever it is that runs the place doesn't get attacked by his own columns. That said, you could possibly assemble one out of the hair from the cadavers and the stones, bones, and bits of wood from the torch. Does depend on the symbol of your god, though. Its a lot easier to come up with a Christian cross than it is Mielikki's rearing unicorn symbol from the Forgotton Realms, for instance. Of course, it's unlikely to come up unless A) one of the trapped characters is a cleric, B) he or she is able to fashion a home-made holy symbol (presumably as a spell focus), and C) they happen to be holding it up in front of them when they leave room 3, possibly having cast Light on it or something.
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Aug 21, 2018 23:26
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PMush Perfect posted:Fane of the Heresiarch was fun, too... with some flexibility for players doing unexpected things. Oh, wow. I didn't know there was more fourthcore than Iron Lich. I really like this one, but is there any solution to the crypt puzzle with the pyramids, books, and hands and things or is it just random choice?
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Aug 22, 2018 00:47
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Slashrat posted:This reminds me of a nice little one-page dungeon adventure I stumbled upon on the web, where the party starts out butt-naked at the bottom and have to escape before the entire place floods. What edition was this designed for? This is a cool set up, but "4 players of level 3" sans equipment are going to need a bit of luck to handle a gelatinous cube.
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Aug 22, 2018 01:01
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meanwhile a party of druids can just all turn into some kind of bird and fly through the dungeon unharmed
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Aug 22, 2018 01:07
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:meanwhile a party of druids can just all turn into some kind of bird and fly through the dungeon unharmed Not at level 3.
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Aug 22, 2018 01:15
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