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Just playing devil's advocate here, but if I was introduced to a galactic society organized into ethno-states mediated by a hellish free market economy, I'd conclude all these people are hella racist.
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Aug 21, 2018 23:03
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BexGu posted:Ashley doesn't hate alien species she just thinks they will gently caress over humanity to save themselves. Which, funnily enough, they all do. Ashley is a racist is a bad meme. Also, humanity is the dog in her analogy.
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Aug 22, 2018 00:54
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Which, funnily enough, they all do. Doesn't the game end with all of the council species agreeing to pool their forces and save earth out of self interest, sure, but they agree to put themselves out there to stop earth from falling
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Aug 22, 2018 01:01
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Listen I'm not a space racist but...
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Aug 22, 2018 01:11
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Ainsley McTree posted:Doesn't the game end with all of the council species agreeing to pool their forces and save earth Only because you help them first. The series validates Ashley's views.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:17
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Only because you help them first. Wouldn't ashley not want to put humanity first and not help them though
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Aug 22, 2018 02:46
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Which, funnily enough, they all do. The aliens are the dog in her analogy, since Shep is not an alien. She then justifies comparing other sapient life forms to an animal by asserting "they all do the same," something objectively disproven multiple times throughout the series. Sorry your spaceGF is a spaceracist. 
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Aug 22, 2018 03:28
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Ashley condemns the Terra Firma party in ME1 pretty hard for being racist and in 3 considers Tali to be a little sister, which Tali reciprocates. If you romanced Ashley in 1 and someone else in 2, Tali's the only one of the three Ashley won't get mad at you about it. She adores Tali like family, and if Tali's happy then that's good enough for her.
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Aug 22, 2018 03:39
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:The aliens are the dog in her analogy, since Shep is not an alien. She then justifies comparing other sapient life forms to an animal by asserting "they all do the same," something objectively disproven multiple times throughout the series. No. She's clearly using 'human' as a synonym for 'person', not human as in a member of the human species/political group. Ashley's point is 'those in power will sacrifice their servants to save themselves'. Which, crazily enough, the Council has a history of doing prior to the events of ME1. ME1 happens and, funnily enough, short of Anderson taking matters into his own hands because the Council threw Shepard to the proverbial bear over the risk of 'war with the Terminus', Saren would've prevailed. Then everyone does it to Shepard in ME2 for reasons of political convenience, leading to the bizarre situation where only Cerberus is willing to do anything. Then in ME3, every other species only deigns to help you because you resolve some kind of bullshit for them first. Ashley's point is that if push came to shove, the Council would throw humanity to the proverbial bear. I'd be interested in seeing whatever it is you think disproves Ashley's stance because, short of the actions of Shepard the Demigod Themself, the three games are all about people stabbing each other in the back in the name of the advancement of their own personal/species/group goals. This is extremely basic reading comprehension, fellas. Even Shamus Young understood this part of Mass Effect. People are very uncomfortable with the idea that they might be sacrificed to save someone else's skin -- that they are the dog and not the human -- so they decide to claim that Ashley is a racist and that class-based power imbalances don't exist. You would think people who complain that humanity was no longer an underdog in ME2 and 3 compared to the entire Citadel group would be able to connect the dots a bit better but, well... Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Aug 22, 2018 |
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Aug 22, 2018 03:43
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Of course, on reflection, Shepard does it themselves, too. With the Batarians being the dog, Shepard the human, and blowing up a Mass Relay.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:14
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Of course, on reflection, Shepard does it themselves, too. With the Batarians being the dog, Shepard the human, and blowing up a Mass Relay. Shepard would 100% have done that poo poo to a human colony and been happy as a clam with a PTSD pearl.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:28
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Admiral Ray posted:Shepard would 100% have done that poo poo to a human colony and been happy as a clam with a PTSD pearl. Can't you choose to do this in one of the side missions in ME2 (or maybe it was 3)? The one where you have to choose a target for a missile launch and it can be either a colony or an industrial zone? Or maybe those weren't humans, I don't remember
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Aug 22, 2018 04:37
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quote:Ashley's point is 'those in power will sacrifice their servants to save themselves'. I can't tell the aliens from the animals
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Aug 22, 2018 04:43
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Of course, on reflection, Shepard does it themselves, too. With the Batarians being the dog, Shepard the human, and blowing up a Mass Relay. That's insulting. People like dogs.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:46
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RBA Starblade posted:I can't tell the aliens from the animals this is a simple metaphor, you fool. must i explain it?
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Aug 22, 2018 04:52
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RBA Starblade posted:I can't tell the aliens from the animals Hanar are big jellyfish and Keepers are big bugs But one is sapient with their own culture and religion and stuff and the other are mindless drones
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Aug 22, 2018 06:01
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RBA Starblade posted:I can't tell the aliens from the animals Yeah that one is just lovely writing and I hate it 
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Aug 22, 2018 08:03
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SgtSteel91 posted:Hanar are big jellyfish and Keepers are big bugs that line was supposed to play when you examine a keeper, but it's bugged given the response to ashley though you can see why bioware gave up attempting complex nuance and basically rendered all characters in ME and Dragon Age down to one-note best friend simulators
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Aug 22, 2018 08:39
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remember how ashley implies that her grandfather's life and career were destroyed and no one cares in Yet Another Example of throwing the dog at the bear
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Aug 22, 2018 08:41
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:remember how ashley implies that her grandfather's life and career were destroyed and no one cares in Yet Another Example of throwing the dog at the bear You mean the radioactive pile of ash on Virmire I threw at the bear? 
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Aug 22, 2018 08:44
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exquisite tea posted:You mean the radioactive pile of ash on Virmire I threw at the bear? She would have been excited to see Kaiden become a Spectre, but there were soooo many 
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Aug 22, 2018 09:00
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:She would have been excited to see Kaiden become a Spectre, but there were soooo many I turned Kaiden into radioactive ash because he was fundamentally boring.
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Aug 22, 2018 09:55
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ashpanash posted:Uh, they didn't fix it, they just made it slightly less terrible. They don't get to divorce themselves from the consequences of making something truly lovely and then defending it so strongly under a torrent of completely valid criticism, which they blew off as 'entitlement' infringing on their 'artistic integrity'. So, you like being mad and don't want to move on, and clutch at your feelings like a blanket for warmth. I get it. You're hardly alone in this. Just be honest with yourself. Also... a worse ending that would have been fine had people not rageshit themselves over not understanding the ending? Implying that the original was better than fine and that the rageshitting was unwarranted? Seems right to me.  Milkfred E. Moore posted:No. She's clearly using 'human' as a synonym for 'person', not human as in a member of the human species/political group. This guy gets it. Or is a racist. I'm not sure, I'm super bad at context? Like, super bad. Milkfred E. Moore posted:that line was supposed to play when you examine a keeper, but it's bugged Nuance is not en vogue in TYOL 2018.
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Aug 22, 2018 21:19
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:So, you like being mad and don't want to move on, and clutch at your feelings like a blanket for warmth. I get it. You're hardly alone in this. Just be honest with yourself. No, dummy. I was insulted and then they tried to placate me by dangling some keys in front of my face. If there would have been some introspection, some acknowledgement that people like me maybe had a point and weren't all being selfish and 'entitled' because we were expecting the company to fulfill its promises, then I would gladly let the thing go. Since they had already backed themselves into a corner with their 'artistic integrity' defense, I expected Mass Effect: Andromeda to be that acknowledgement. "We hosed up, we're doing right by the people who purchase our products this time." Yeah, we see how that turned out.
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Aug 22, 2018 21:30
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Rage'N'Bone Man deserved to have his song attached to a better game.
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Aug 22, 2018 21:33
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:that line was supposed to play when you examine a keeper, but it's bugged That's an unfortunate bug considering when it DOES play.
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Aug 22, 2018 21:34
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Look, I get it. You're asking a legitimate question. If the updated ending was 'fine', why is it such an insult that we ultimately got the updated ending? Well, from my perspective, the answer is 'context.' They released the poo poo ending, then there was uproar, and insults/non-acknowledgement from the company. While that uproar was happening, the community roughly fell into one of two camps: those who thought Bioware had some crazy well-thought-out indoctrination ending that they were holding off for some reason, or those who were starting to really look at what was actually in the game and how the ending really failed to deliver on a whole bunch of promises going back two games. I fell in the later group. Now, if you rewrite history, and you release the game with the updated, rather than original ending, I am pretty sure I know how I would have react. I would have watched it, been disappointed, but just put down the controller and move on to something else, maybe make a post somewhere about how I was disappointed but Tuchanka sure was fun. So it's because, instead of just writing it off, a lot of time was spent looking closely at what we got and how it really was a pretty exceptional failure. Because Bioware spent so much time denying reality and ignoring what was going on that the ending that was later given was not enough. Because Bioware handled the issue terribly - they drew negative attention to themselves and their product instead of letting it be dismissed and ultimately forgotten. And along the way, they insulted the people who cared about their products. So there ya go. That, to me, is why the updated ending wasn't enough. Because it came in the context of how boisterously ignorant and insulting they had been before we got the updated ending. Without that context, yeah, the updated ending is fine. With the context, the updated ending is just another insult.
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Aug 22, 2018 21:51
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Sir this is a gaming food drive thru
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Aug 22, 2018 21:54
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ashpanash posted:Look, I get it. You're asking a legitimate question. If the updated ending was 'fine', why is it such an insult that we ultimately got the updated ending? Have you considered that the writers were working to try to un-gently caress Mac Walters' as best they could with the assets available rather than out of laziness, or whatever you're ascribing it to?
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Aug 23, 2018 04:02
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EA Marketing: "SAVE THE EARTH AND CHOOSE YOUR OWN ENDING TO THE EPIC CONCLUSION OF A 100+ HOUR SAGA!!!!1" Also EA Marketing:  Just to end this derail: I've been really into cheese puffs lately.
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Aug 23, 2018 04:06
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Have you considered that the writers were working to try to un-gently caress Mac Walters' as best they could with the assets available rather than out of laziness, or whatever you're ascribing it to? Totally. Like I said, I figured ME:A would be just that - Bioware’s writers putting a lot of effort in trying to unfuck the franchise. And here we are.
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Aug 23, 2018 06:52
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The aliens in 3 don't refuse to help earth because "favorism" but because their own systems are under attack too, it's actually the humans demand for them to drop everything and go save earth that's unreasonable - and only becomes justified when the reapers move the citadel there for... reasons? in the last act.
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Aug 23, 2018 08:03
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The humans had to convince everyone to come to earth because the game marketed itself as the battle for Earth. TAKE BACK EARF.
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Aug 23, 2018 08:09
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:EA Marketing: "SAVE THE EARTH AND CHOOSE YOUR OWN ENDING TO THE EPIC CONCLUSION OF A 100+ HOUR SAGA!!!!1" I like the crunchy ones rather than the fluffy ones.
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Aug 23, 2018 15:17
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Avalerion posted:The aliens in 3 don't refuse to help earth because "favorism" but because their own systems are under attack too, it's actually the humans demand for them to drop everything and go save earth that's unreasonable - and only becomes justified when the reapers move the citadel there for... reasons? in the last act. yeah its almost like the whole plot is badly written
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Aug 24, 2018 01:02
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Moola posted:yeah its almost like the whole plot is badly written No, it's definitely just the ending that was weak.
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Aug 24, 2018 11:40
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hell at least ME3 had an ending, multiple even! MEA just sort of... stops? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTgr41rlKRQ
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Aug 24, 2018 11:49
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Sometimes I remember that all the Quarians are canonically dead thanks to catastrophic badgame failure, and I smile.
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Aug 24, 2018 13:51
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exquisite tea posted:Sometimes I remember that all the Quarians are canonically dead thanks to catastrophic badgame failure, and I smile. Not just the quarians, but the elcor and hanar, too.
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Aug 24, 2018 14:06
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Mournfully: A necessary sacrifice.
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Aug 24, 2018 14:07
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