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CharlestheHammer posted:To be fair the origin also cluttered Prometheus and Covenant so maybe the origin is just in general clutter Well, no, because neither Prometheus or Covenant involve the "origin" of anything any more than Alien. What happens is that there is a place with monsters, and monsters come out of those places. What fandom refers to as "origin story" or whatever is literally just a misunderstanding of the rising action in a three-act narrative. The point of monsters emerging in a monster movie is not to explain their origin. There being monsters in a monster movie is an obvious precondition of genre. But fans delude themselves into thinking that filmmakers are trying to communicate with them telepathically or something. They convince themselves that P+C are poorly attempting to "explain" something to them, when the reality is that the filmmakers have actually way overestimated the ability of the average nerd to just loving pay attention to a story without needing the prestige of an entire canon to justify it.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:05
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K. Waste posted:Well, no, because neither Prometheus or Covenant involve the "origin" of anything any more than Alien. What. What origin did you think I was talking about.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:06
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Timby posted:A lot of it also comes from the buzz around Spaihts' original script, which leaked incredibly early-on and was basically a straight Alien 0.5 (to the point of pretty much ending with the beginning of Alien), which Ridley Scott had no interest in doing. So he brings in Lindelof to rewrite the whole thing, and Lindelof returns the focus to the Engineers and to the search for our Creator, especially going out of his way to overhaul Shaw (who in Spaihts' script is just Ripley with the serial numbers filed off). given how bad the Alien Engineers script was coupled with how bizarrely bad the original Passengers script was, I genuinely do not know how Spaihts managed to last as long in Hollywood as he did. e: oh gently caress, he co-wrote the new Mummy movie, too? what the poo poo?
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Aug 22, 2018 02:11
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Finished Resurrection. Any one that complains about unlikable characters should watch this movie: the mercenary crew are introduced by objectifying and harassing Call (which they keep doing throughout the movie), are generally assholes and also have hijacked a ship to sell the frozen passengers to the military for experiments. The only remotely sympathetic characters are Ripley 8, Call and Purvis, one of the aforementioned hijacked people who did nothing to deserve this poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:31
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I don’t think I have ever seen someone go to bat for resurrection, even to be a contrarian.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:What. What origin did you think I was talking about. The issue is that you don't know what you're talking about. You'll quote a post about how the origin of the xenomorph is only 'mysterious' insofar as any more information than what we're given would clutter the narrative, you assert that the origin is cluttered in P+C; and then when I point out that 'origin' has nothing to do with the narrative of either film, you've already lost the thread of the conversation. Because you don't actually have any reason to believe that either film is 'cluttered' by origins specifically, or anything in general. It just sounds like something you should say because all that matters is you don't like them.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:37
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SciFiDownBeat posted:I can give you eight off the top of my head, in no particular order: I'd include, in no order to the list... Children Of Men, District 9, Elysium, Chappie, The Matrix, Mad Max: Fury Road The Road Edge Of Tomorrow The Rover Beyond The Black Rainbow Also, Kudos on EOE. I still very that movie and the finality of it all, despite the newer films.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:37
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I dunno, The Rover is stretching it, it's sci-fi like Breaking Bad is sci-fi.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:40
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MonsieurChoc posted:The script is so bad, holy poo poo Whedon was always bad. It says a lot that Whedon's only tolerable film is the one where he just pointed a camera at some of his friends acting out Shakespeare and called it a day.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:40
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think I have ever seen someone go to bat for resurrection, even to be a contrarian. I think there’s a kind of achievement in its sheer vulgar grossness. I’ve got a pretty solid horror movie constitution, but the failed clone room scene skeeves me out. And then you have poo poo like Dan Hadeya pulling his own brain out of the back of his head. Resurrection is a terrible Alien movie, but a semi-competent movie based on like, an obscure mid-90’s Heavy Metal magazine B-story.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:41
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K. Waste posted:The issue is that you don't know what you're talking about. You'll quote a post about how the origin of the xenomorph is only 'mysterious' insofar as any more information than what we're given would clutter the narrative, you assert that the origin is cluttered in P+C; and then when I point out that 'origin' has nothing to do with the narrative of either film, you've already lost the thread of the conversation. I believe because I watched the movie, it was basically an afterthought in Prometheus and it actively dragged down the last part of AC. Which was fine until the actual alien showed up. Though I still want you to explain what origin you think I was talking about you kind of sidestepped the question though I think it’s because your not sure. Just putting words together to sound smart is a trend I’ve noticed you consistently do. Fart City posted:I think there’s a kind of achievement in its sheer vulgar grossness. I’ve got a pretty solid horror movie constitution, but the failed clone room scene skeeves me out. And then you have poo poo like Dan Hadeya pulling his own brain out of the back of his head. The failed clone scene is usually the one scene people praise but that’s usually it.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:What. What origin did you think I was talking about. What are you talking about it’s fairly clear. Unless you're being pedantic?
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Aug 22, 2018 02:43
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Neither Prometheus nor Covenant directly set up the original Alien or function as "origin stories," they just act as variations on the theme that the universe is an actively hateful place that will shape itself to make you suffer with whatever tools it has on hand.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:46
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think I have ever seen someone go to bat for resurrection, even to be a contrarian. Resurrection is definitely a bad movie in just about every measurable way, but it comes really close to being “so bad it’s Plus, Brad Dourif and Ron Perlman.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:50
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I'd like to remind people that some of the hilarious complaints about Prometheus were: A billionaire seeking immortality was unrealistic, corporations were by definition rationally motivated, private space travel is for the benefit of all and not an ego stroke.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think I have ever seen someone go to bat for resurrection, even to be a contrarian. It's fun, i like the french guy from Amelie, ron perlman is cool and wynona rider is always great I really hate alien 3 so at least alien 4 takes the dumbshit story from 3 and takes it to its dumb conclusion. You cant have alien 3 without 4, like you cant have ESB without RotJ. They're companion pieces.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:56
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CharlestheHammer posted:I believe because I watched the movie, it was basically an afterthought in Prometheus and it actively dragged down the last part of AC. Which was fine until the actual alien showed up. Because of the post you quoted, I am forced to conclude you are referring to the origin of the alien in Alien. If this is not the case, then you only have yourself to blame for not writing clearly, let's say, not effectively putting words together. Like I wrote, it's a compounding problem. You say that the origin is an afterthought in Prometheus, but Prometheus does not involve the origin of anything. It was made 31 years after Alien, and takes place more than a hundred years before that. There is no direct connection between the films. Prometheus is entirely self-contained and straightforward. Similarly, the last part of AC is not about the origin of anything in Alien. The movie is about a crazy robot alchemist making monsters. The last part of the movie involves that robot using his monster to hijack a spaceship. It is entirely self-contained and straightforward.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:58
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Len posted:I know it's supermechagodzilla but Well you’re not wrong, but that’s just the basic premise and the ending. The question is: what is expressed through the conceit of multiple realities? In Terminator Genisys, Jai Courtney is transported from a stagnant version of the Terminator 1 time-loop and into a new loop where a nuclear war will never happen. So, after having literally spent an eternity fighting and refighting the same battle against the defence AI Skynet, Courtney is now faced with the question of what to do now that he’s won. The heroic John Connor has now, in 2016, taken on the role of a Gates/Zuckerberg/Jobs figure and is promising that a new privatized AI called Genisys will enforce world peace. And he’s offering Courtney a job. Courtney resists the temptation to retire in luxury with the mantra “Genisys is Skynet”, which is not strictly factual but expresses his belief that we are the baddies now. The point of the alternate universe conceit here is that Terminator 1’s apocalyptic Cold War narrative is obsolete, that the threat is now ‘the end of history’ - that nothing will change, and we’ll go out with a whimper. The liberal rebels of thirty years ago are the enemies of today - which is not a complex message, but one that the Star Wars sequels (for example) have been afraid to speak.
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Aug 22, 2018 03:04
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:given how bad the Alien Engineers script was coupled with how bizarrely bad the original Passengers script was, I genuinely do not know how Spaihts managed to last as long in Hollywood as he did. I say the exact same thing about John Logan's career of failing upwards: What the poo poo? I figure Logan and Spaihts must just be the nicest dudes in Hollywood or something (or the greatest hucksters of all time for getting people to buy into their poo poo).
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Aug 22, 2018 03:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well you’re not wrong, but that’s just the basic premise and the ending. The question is: what is expressed through the conceit of multiple realities? And therein lies the rub. Those who cause revolution who cannot change and flex with the ebb and flow of time and growth struggle to maintain what their understanding is of the world because they are most secure and can in control of that moment. Thus they become the enemy, they reached their end and threshold and could not go further as everything marched on and thus became the very thing they fought against. This is why Killmonger was not a just revolutionary, he was just another oppressor though he was wronged, he was doing and would end up doing wrong and through his revolution could have opened up more pain. Just as when America bombs the middle east removing dictators like Saddam Hussein for their interests, it causes worse weeds to grow like ISIS, who people like Saddam were keeping a lid on. Similarly in America we have a ruling elite keeping hold of power without adjusting and bringing the people along and being dominant at the expense of the lower class and it's causing problems, the Baby Boomers were granted a chance by the Greatest Generation, went to the moon and instead expensed the future of Gen X, Y, and Millennial for their gluttony starting with Regan and enough Americans support that sort of conservative heresy. Not to say the other extreme end doesn't lie madness too but can't recognize it.
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Aug 22, 2018 03:34
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I dunno, The Rover is stretching it, it's sci-fi like Breaking Bad is sci-fi. Not my fault Australia's always been that way. It definitely falls under speculative fiction, which falls under sci-fi alot, since it occurs ten years after an economic collapse.
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Aug 22, 2018 03:37
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I like both Prometheus and Covenant but I felt like everything they did was done better in a different Alien movie. Now I know what you're saying - MMJS, fuckin' movies are more than the sum of their parts, no movie can stand up to being chopped into base ingredients and compared to other films. Nor should they. And I agree with you! But somehow, those movies failed to cohere to me in some critical way. I can't explain why, I don't think they're "stupid" or "unrealistic" or any of that nonsense, I just think that there's a certain...clinicalality...to them. They feel like entries in a franchise first and Scott's own films second, if that makes sense. Maybe it's all of the pastiche in Covenant. The fact it's trying to put the Space Jockey just so, the set design just so...remember Alien? Remember this? Remember that? Buddy I do not give a gently caress about this self-referential poo poo when it comes to Alien, for whatever reason.
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Aug 22, 2018 03:40
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I'll fight whoever trashed Contact on the last page, can't be assed to quote them, suck my dick you fuckman/woman/other edit: poo poo this isn't the GenChat thread? I stand by it still
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Aug 22, 2018 04:42
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Prometheus didn't work for me because it seemed like the focus moved away from telling a story to world-building and mythology. In Alien, stuff like Weyland-Yutani and the space jockey were just background, which the movie didn't explain, which was fine because I didn't care. They were just interesting flavor to make the movie seem more authentic. In Prometheus, suddenly everything was getting explained, but I still didn't care so it just bogged the movie down. For people that care about the Alien lore, it was probably much more satisfying. It just wasn't aimed at me. No idea about Covenant, because I just stopped after Prometheus.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:50
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AngusPodgorny posted:In Alien, stuff ... was fine because I didn't care. 
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Aug 22, 2018 05:10
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Prometheus I liked because it was like a slightly more dark and twisted version of a 50s space voyage movie, there's a sense of wonder mixed in with the horror and it's very much about people losing their heads in the rush of discovery. Covenant I was kinda disappointed by, it felt a bit more cynical and more "here are the Xenos that you wanted". There's still some weird poo poo in it but also a lot more conventional milling about.
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Aug 22, 2018 05:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Posting My Favorites: look any excuse to talk about abandoned grain elevator is a good one but huh?
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Aug 22, 2018 05:12
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CharlestheHammer posted:Though I still want you to explain what origin you think I was talking about you kind of sidestepped the question though I think it’s because your not sure. Just putting words together to sound smart is a trend I’ve noticed you consistently do. Bold to counter him by doing the opposite
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Aug 22, 2018 05:21
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Gatts posted:And therein lies the rub. Those who cause revolution who cannot change and flex with the ebb and flow of time and growth struggle to maintain what their understanding is of the world because they are most secure and can in control of that moment. Thus they become the enemy, they reached their end and threshold and could not go further as everything marched on and thus became the very thing they fought against. This is why Killmonger was not a just revolutionary, he was just another oppressor though he was wronged, he was doing and would end up doing wrong and through his revolution could have opened up more pain. Just as when America bombs the middle east removing dictators like Saddam Hussein for their interests, it causes worse weeds to grow like ISIS, who people like Saddam were keeping a lid on. Similarly in America we have a ruling elite keeping hold of power without adjusting and bringing the people along and being dominant at the expense of the lower class and it's causing problems, the Baby Boomers were granted a chance by the Greatest Generation, went to the moon and instead expensed the future of Gen X, Y, and Millennial for their gluttony starting with Regan and enough Americans support that sort of conservative heresy. Not to say the other extreme end doesn't lie madness too but can't recognize it. revolutions are bad, because they're like the US government's foreign policy? cool idea man, where'd you come up with it
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Aug 22, 2018 08:16
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I'd like to remind people that some of the hilarious complaints about Prometheus were: A billionaire seeking immortality was unrealistic, corporations were by definition rationally motivated, private space travel is for the benefit of all and not an ego stroke. These are dumb complaints. But the man who's entire job it is to map the place gets scared and forgets he has a map literally on his wrist, but then they tell him to go look at some creepy poo poo and he remembers and does it. Instead of saying "no I'm loving terrified to the point I literally forgot I am the map man, go gently caress yourself, I'm leaving this scary ruin," which is just bad, inconsistent writing. Prometheus is ok until you think about it for five minutes. Covenant side steps being dumb but still lands in the just kinda boring camp. Anyway, in Jason X there's a holodeck of what people in the future think the eighties were and Jason beats a girl in a sleeping bag to death with another girl in a sleeping bag. It's a masterpiece.
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Aug 22, 2018 08:17
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A teensy bit late to the party, but "favorite sci-fi films" as a discussion topic is like internet catnip to me. I'll start with the 1980's since I feel like I haven't seen an adequate amount of 70's stuff. 1980-1989: the true and very fair top 15 1. The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai: Across the Eighth Dimension 2. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind 3. RoboCop 4. The Thing 5. The Empire Strikes Back 6. Blade Runner 7. Dune 8. Flash Gordon 9. The Road Warrior 10. Outland 11. Escape from New York 12. Akira 13. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khaaaaaan 14. Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome 15. Battle Beyond the Stars 1990-1999: the accurate, great, and big league top 15 1. Jurassic Park 2. Gattaca 3. The Iron Giant 4. The Matrix 5. Galaxy Quest 6. Starship Troopers 7. Strange Days 8. Dark City 9. Gremlins 2 10. Total Recall 11. Contact 12. The Fifth Element 13. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country 14. The Rocketeer 15. eXistenZ 2000-2009: the top...THIRTEEN. yes. 1. Paprika 2. Children of Men 3. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 4. Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence 5. A Scanner Darkly 6. Moon 7. The Host 8. Primer 9. Superman Returns 10. Minority Report 11. WALL-E 12. District 9 13. THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA 2010-2017 - top 20 because gently caress it 1. Mad Max Fury Road 2. Cloud Atlas 3. Arrival 4. Under the Skin 5. Star Wars: The Last Jedi 6. Her 7. Upstream Color 8. Edge of Tomorrow 9. Snowpiercer 10. Prometheus 11. Looper 12. Attack the Block 13. The World's End 14. War for the Planet of the Apes 15. Ex Machina 16. Beyond the Black Rainbow 17. The One I Love 18. Godzilla 19. Daybreakers 20. STAR TREK BEYOND I have very good taste.
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Aug 22, 2018 08:17
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I nominate Surrogates for most wasted potential sci-fi. And then robocop remake comes along and manages to say even less
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Aug 22, 2018 09:00
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DeimosRising posted:look any excuse to talk about abandoned grain elevator is a good one but huh? It’s a science fiction film about an abandoned grain elevator! A human heart posted:revolutions are bad, because they're like the US government's foreign policy? cool idea man, where'd you come up with it Anyways the point is that Coherence is a very bad movie that uses references to quantum physics to obfuscate a narrative where a woman simply gets high at a banal dinner party and sabotages her relationship. Movies like Battle: LA, on the other hand, are clear and nuanced.
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Aug 22, 2018 09:39
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What a loving shamefull lack of mentions for Moon and Predestination and Logan and Midnight Special and Attack the block itt, Christ. Edit: or Okja. Even stuff like whatever happened to monday is better than covenant Antifa Poltergeist fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Aug 22, 2018 |
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Aug 22, 2018 09:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It’s a science fiction film about an abandoned grain elevator! is it sexy
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Aug 22, 2018 09:42
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Vince MechMahon posted:Anyway, in Jason X there's a holodeck of what people in the future think the eighties were and Jason beats a girl in a sleeping bag to death with another girl in a sleeping bag. It's a masterpiece. lol Jason X is so whacky! (It’s poo poo)
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Aug 22, 2018 11:01
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The liquid nitrogen kill is great. But the rest of Jason X is indeed horrible.
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Aug 22, 2018 11:02
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What about lists of most disappointing sci-fi films? I really wanted to like Oblivion and it started off good enough but as soon as Morgan Freeman shows up it goes to poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2018 11:28
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asecondduck posted:What about lists of most disappointing sci-fi films? I really wanted to like Oblivion and it started off good enough but as soon as Morgan Freeman shows up it goes to poo poo. 1. Blade Runner 2049
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Aug 22, 2018 11:46
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A human heart posted:revolutions are bad, because they're like the US government's foreign policy? cool idea man, where'd you come up with it No, I’m saying Killmonger’s revolution is bad specifically and would have lead to ISIS type situation where he’d remove the system in place but not account for something worse to take hold. He’s just another oppressor. I’m saying the problem with revolution cane be those that do it have risk of being the problem as time passes in the end because sometimes they end up wanting to keep the system they put into place in the context they understood it to keep power. They institutionalize and try to keep it going when the world changes around them. Revolution in various forms don’t have to be bad in general and sometimes good and necessary but it’s a complicated matter. Gatts fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Aug 22, 2018 |
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Aug 22, 2018 12:33
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