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Srice posted:Yeah this is correct. Classic collections seem to run as great as possible. The X ones in addition to the input delay somehow add new lag to the snes games! It really needs a turbo mode like the first classic collection. Except the first Mega Man game for some reason. I'm pretty good at adjusting to input lag but I still had some troubles during some sections in X1. I've gotten all 52 medals in both collections now but you know what I still want more Mega Man X action 
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Aug 21, 2018 22:07
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So I made fun of that spiral hallway that's in X4 and X5, but now I've noticed it's upside down and in the sky in Infinity Mijinion's stage in X6.
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Aug 21, 2018 22:12
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Phantasium posted:So I made fun of that spiral hallway that's in X4 and X5, but now I've noticed it's upside down and in the sky in Infinity Mijinion's stage in X6. infinitely better than the alternative
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Aug 21, 2018 22:18
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I'm just surprised at how much they milked out of it.
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Aug 21, 2018 22:20
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Phantasium posted:I'm just surprised at how much they milked out of it. "I bet we can make an entire game out of that" -> X7
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Aug 21, 2018 22:23
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Edit: Never mind.
manny kaltz fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 22:35
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Srice posted:Yeah this is correct. Classic collections seem to run as great as possible. The X ones in addition to the input delay somehow add new lag to the snes games! It really needs a turbo mode like the first classic collection. There’s literal slowdown as well. My 3DS VC copy of X1 runs better. Vinchenz posted:Except the first Mega Man game for some reason. Mega Man 1 just has slightly less refined controls than the later games. It’s noticeable even on original hardware.
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Aug 22, 2018 00:12
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People complain a lot about the camera in Mega Man Legends which I admittedly have never understood much since it gives you more or less total control at all times. How did Mega Man X7 come out six years later and look and control and behave like such total dogshit? I'm assuming by the fact that there are camera rotate buttons in the options and the little camera icon that is always crossed out that there are meant to be some stretches where you have camera control, but I have yet to actually see it. e: X7 came out the same year as Battle Network 4 so maybe Capcom was just really, really bad by then?
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Aug 22, 2018 01:08
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The X series really illustrated to me the very blunt line between the 2D era of gaming and the 3D era. X3 was still a big deal when it came out, then X4 kind of snuck in, but nobody really cared. By X5, every publisher seemed to stop caring about 2D games, and game stores were only ordering two copies. I don't get it. You can still create/buy 2D games and create/buy 3D games. It was strange how people committed so much to 3D instantly despite that 99% of 3D games were buggy poo poo where you spent half of the game escaping from a wall you clipped into.
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Aug 22, 2018 01:34
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food court bailiff posted:People complain a lot about the camera in Mega Man Legends which I admittedly have never understood much since it gives you more or less total control at all times. Something crazy to imagine is, think of how much it sucks to play as Zero in 3d Then consider that Devil May Cry came out 2 years prior. Sure they're from different parts of Capcom, but they had a good example for 3d melee combat they could learn from instead of the sludgy way Zero controls in X7.
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Aug 22, 2018 01:57
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Mega Man and MMX have always been the series Capcom could make once a year for cheap. It was never going to get the attention of DmC, and if we're being real, it's kind of astonishing that as many X games were as good as they were.
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Aug 22, 2018 02:22
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The Human Crouton posted:The X series really illustrated to me the very blunt line between the 2D era of gaming and the 3D era. X3 was still a big deal when it came out, then X4 kind of snuck in, but nobody really cared. By X5, every publisher seemed to stop caring about 2D games, and game stores were only ordering two copies. I don't get it. You can still create/buy 2D games and create/buy 3D games. It was strange how people committed so much to 3D instantly despite that 99% of 3D games were buggy poo poo where you spent half of the game escaping from a wall you clipped into. 3D was the future and magazines would literally mark games down for being 2D and thus old
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Aug 22, 2018 02:31
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Schwarzwald posted:Mega Man and MMX have always been the series Capcom could make once a year for cheap. It was never going to get the attention of DmC, and if we're being real, it's kind of astonishing that as many X games were as good as they were. Imagine if they were lazier and just stole 90% of the DMC engine to use for zero gameplay
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Aug 22, 2018 02:42
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Tunicate posted:Imagine if they were lazier and just stole 90% of the DMC engine to use for zero gameplay I would start going to church if Capcom hired Platinum to make a new 3D Megaman game.
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Aug 22, 2018 03:14
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did any of y'all play devil may cry 2 which came out in the same year as mega man x7 and mega man battle network 4 because i'm playing through DMC2 for the first time and man i'm learning even more about 2003 capcom
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Aug 22, 2018 03:56
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Kaubocks posted:did any of y'all play devil may cry 2 which came out in the same year as mega man x7 and mega man battle network 4 Things man was not meant to know.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:28
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Kaubocks posted:did any of y'all play devil may cry 2 which came out in the same year as mega man x7 and mega man battle network 4 The best example of what is wrong with DMC2 is that they introduced a wall-running mechanic, and using it is at best useless and at worst an absolute detriment to your experience. There's literally no reason for it to be there, and it just barely looks cool when you do it. I remember how excited my friends and I were reading about how we could basically do Matrix poo poo in the sequel to the awesome action game...
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Aug 22, 2018 04:34
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Kaubocks posted:did any of y'all play devil may cry 2 which came out in the same year as mega man x7 and mega man battle network 4 I pre-ordered devil may cry 2 and that's when I learned not to pre-order videogames Man I loved DMC and was so excited for DMC2. Good thing DMC3 was amazing and redeemed the series.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:35
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Kaubocks posted:did any of y'all play devil may cry 2 which came out in the same year as mega man x7 and mega man battle network 4 holy crap that was all the same year? what was happening over there
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Aug 22, 2018 04:41
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Kaubocks posted:did any of y'all play devil may cry 2 which came out in the same year as mega man x7 and mega man battle network 4 They were all victim to a satanic ritual to make Viewtiful Joe the greatest game of all time, worth it imo
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Aug 22, 2018 04:47
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If I remember correctly Devil May Cry 2 not only had a reduced budget, it was also so completely incompetently handled the final producer got brought on and then given basically 3 months to ship a product so basically the team went “if it works it goes in” which is why textures are repeated constantly, enemy variety is poor, secret rooms are all identical, enemy AI doesnt seem to exist for some foes, enemy tells dont exist, but Dante has a random grab bag of moves that are poorly explained and borderline useless.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:52
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Fawf posted:They were all victim to a satanic ritual to make Viewtiful Joe the greatest game of all time, worth it imo God Viewtiful Joe was so good.
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Aug 22, 2018 04:57
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The Human Crouton posted:By X5, every publisher seemed to stop caring about 2D games. It's been a long time and I forget where I read this but Sony I think actually initially blocked X5 (or X6?) from appearing on the PSX at first because of it, and Capcom had to twist Sony's arm a bit with their 3D games before they relented. It could have been just a rumor or something completely made up, though.
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Aug 22, 2018 05:11
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There were a decent enough amount of 2D games on PS1 but by the time PS2 came around I wouldn't be surprised to find out Sony were actively discouraging them.
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Aug 22, 2018 05:19
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I've started a weaponless playthrough of MMX since it's been nearly twenty years since I've done it, and so far I am getting my rear end kicked. I am super rusty.
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Aug 22, 2018 05:20
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I basically play all mega man games with lemons only, not even as like a challenge but just because I'm dumb and get more used to using it so I don't want to play with some random guns that may or may not work in a given situation Are you still allowed to get the gun-upgrade in MMX for 'weaponless' ?
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Aug 22, 2018 06:00
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gently caress YOU LAUNCH OCTOPUS YOU loving FUCKER I AM GOING TO KILL YOU AND MAKE SQUID ADLER FALL IN LOVE WITH ME AND THEN DUMP HIM OUT OF SPITE THAT IS RIGHT I AM GOING TO GO MEGACHAD ON YOUR STACY YOU MAVERINCEL (launch octopus is fine i am just not doing very good after many years of not playing) Zaphod42 posted:I basically play all mega man games with lemons only, not even as like a challenge but just because I'm dumb and get more used to using it so I don't want to play with some random guns that may or may not work in a given situation Yeah, I'm only using charge shots as most Mavericks are bullet sponges and fights drag out too long otherwise.
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Aug 22, 2018 06:05
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Screaming Idiot posted:gently caress YOU LAUNCH OCTOPUS YOU loving FUCKER I used to play through the first 8 bosses without dash to appreciate how awesome that the game is laid out in a way that it is fun and fair both classically and with dash. Launch Octopus is the only maverick I never figured out how beat without dash or maverick weapons. Always had to rely on E-Tanks.
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Aug 22, 2018 06:16
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I might break my "no weapons" rule just to humiliate Launch Octopus and Flame Mammoth, becaise it is never not fun to do that and as my bizarre and somewhat worrying previous post illustrated Launch Octopus is rather frustrating.
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Aug 22, 2018 06:22
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Against my better judgement, more MM&B GBA. After a brief stint as Megaman (where everything still is miserable, but just differently), I figured out the key to using Burner Man's weakness, which is to just jump behind him when he divekicks and shove him into the spikes with Ice Wall. This results in taking what is a completely suckass boss fight, and turning it into a completely suckass boss fight that you can kill reasonably quickly before he inevitably bulldozes over you. With Burner Man down, it's back to the weakness chain, which is the only way to make bosses reasonable enough to fight as Bass. Pirate, Ground, Tengu, and Magic are all down, leaving me with Astro and Dynamo. Having played around a bit more, there's more reasons why this game sucks, namely, how the shop system works: Yeah, there's the complete lack of health recovery (save for Eddie and the Party Ball, but those don't count), and the general lack of worthwhile items, but it's that you need to beat a number of bosses to unlock anything worthwhile. From the start, you can get the energy balancer, extra lives, the freaking exit module, and maybe the shock guard as worthwhile stuff to build. Beat three more bosses, and you can build more stuff, though frankly, only the Treble Boost is worth buying at the second set of items. Now, after beating a grand total of SIX bosses, you can finally get some items worth buying, namely, the two equipable buster upgrades. One makes your shots pierce walls, the other increases you power. You can carry both, but you can only have one of those two upgrades (or some other equipable item). Piercing buster shots is useful in the stages, but not too vital. Powered buster shots is drat near vital if you want to actually stand a chance of using bass's buster on bosses and actually making it fair, instead of this overly long horseshit where you need to do the fights nearly perfectly because you have zero leeway in the form of e-tanks or whatever. And in order to get the item that makes bosses less horseshit to buster duel as bass, you need to already beat 6 of them. GREAT. Oh and exiting stages early doesn't restore weapon energy, something I learned when messing around with the crystal teleporter gate stage. My only options to recover weapon energy are to: a) start farming weapon energy somewhere, or b) hurl myself into a pit somewhere until I game over. God this game loving sucks.
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Aug 22, 2018 06:35
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X7 was made by an RPG team lmao And uh yeah you can rotate the camera in I think the ride armour level? And some other bits. Lot of places where it would make sense but you can't. The game is bad
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Aug 22, 2018 07:11
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Airspace posted:It's been a long time and I forget where I read this but Sony I think actually initially blocked X5 (or X6?) from appearing on the PSX at first because of it, and Capcom had to twist Sony's arm a bit with their 3D games before they relented. I remember hearing that about MM8 - Sony said no, Capcom said "okay, it'll be a Saturn exclusive" and Sony suddenly changed their minds.
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Aug 22, 2018 07:12
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SeANMcBAY posted:Mega Man 1 just has slightly less refined controls than the later games. It’s noticeable even on original hardware. The Switch Legacy Collection version of MM1 has input lag when no other MM game on LC has it. Way more than any other version, Famicom, NES, Anniversary Collection, Wii VC, 3DS VC. It has nothing to do with the "slightly less refined controls". In fact, that same input lag does not even extend to the challenge mode missions that include MM1 levels.
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Aug 22, 2018 14:28
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You actually haven’t hit the worst part of MM and Bass yet. Quick tip for you that you can go to that gate to the final stages early and break some crystals with each boss weapon for an easy 100 bolts each if you need them.
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Aug 22, 2018 15:09
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Oyster posted:The Switch Legacy Collection version of MM1 has input lag when no other MM game on LC has it. Way more than any other version, Famicom, NES, Anniversary Collection, Wii VC, 3DS VC. It has nothing to do with the "slightly less refined controls". In fact, that same input lag does not even extend to the challenge mode missions that include MM1 levels. Does that apply to Rockman 1 as well?
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Aug 22, 2018 16:14
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Takoluka posted:Does that apply to Rockman 1 as well? Unfortunately yes. It doesn't have the massive slowdown in MM5 that the 3DS version has, though!
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Aug 22, 2018 16:48
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Oyster posted:The Switch Legacy Collection version of MM1 has input lag when no other MM game on LC has it. Way more than any other version, Famicom, NES, Anniversary Collection, Wii VC, 3DS VC. It has nothing to do with the "slightly less refined controls". In fact, that same input lag does not even extend to the challenge mode missions that include MM1 levels. Interesting. I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to get theses games right.
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Aug 22, 2018 17:57
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TheKingofSprings posted:You actually haven’t hit the worst part of MM and Bass yet. I've made it past the worst part, King Stage 2, already. Now I'm in refight hell with Dynamo and Burner standing in the way of a colossal rear end in a top hat version of Wily and his Capsule. The last stage sucks. The biggest problem with Megaman and Bass is that it demands too much perfection from the player, on the sort of level that only the original Megaman 1 brought to the table. And not like, with ranking systems (the Zero and ZX games) or self imposed challenges, but just to actually play the game, it demands too much from the player, and King Stage 2 is like the pinnacle of this. Lets say you go in with 9 lives. That's the only amount of leeway you're given in this game. In a single life, you're expected to take down the first part of the stage, and King Tank. Then you get your first checkpoint. Okay, not too bad. In the second section of the stage, you're expected to take on King Jet and the bit of stage right before it. King Jet is an absolute garbage fight thanks to it's fists destroying platforms. The only positive thing to say about it is that they at least give you an extra life in the section right before it, so as long as you go out of your way to collect it every time, you at least don't have to worry about running out of lives. It's still an awful boss though. Third and final section, you get a bit of stage, including a bit of an annoying spike floor to deal with by using the ice block machine to cross it. It's not terribly difficult to cross, but that fact that it exists is infuriating enough on it's own. You get through the small bit of stage and reach King. Instead of fighting King, you have this scripted non-fight that you have to wait out until Protoman shows up, dodging his attacks and not shooting him. Then once the long cutscene is done, you have to fight King for real, with whatever health you have left after the non-fight. And King is large, in charge, loves jumping around the arena, and also shoots a reflect laser that makes the fight even more hell to deal with. This third section, on it's own, with the whole sequence of stage (w/ annoying spike pit) -> non-fight King -> cutscene -> King is frustrating enough with trying to keep your health up and having to go through the same nonsense just to do more attempts on the guy, but we're not done. After beating King, you finally get the boss checkpoint, and you're thrown into Jet King Robo. And this boss is awful to fight as Bass. There's no really easy way to shoot at the cockpit with Bass's buster, it's homing elbow bullet is annoying to dodge, and the red core needs special weapons to counter, or else you're getting hit. The only reasonable way to fight this boss is by using it's weakness, and even then, that's it's own stupid bit of nonsense. Megaman gets a floating platform. Bass doesn't have anything. And you need to get up to the head to hit it with Wave Burner. So your only option is to use Treble Boost to fly up there, pause, switch to Wave Burner, then unpause and shoot, moving away from the boss so you don't land on it, then pause and switch to Treble Boost to fly up there and repeat until it's dead. Granted, you should have Treble Boost by now anyways, but to expect the player to do that in order to make the boss even doable is asinine. Individually, there's stuff that would be doable in their own levels, but MM&B throws ALL of this poo poo into a single level, and expects you to deal with it, without giving you anything to mitigate how much of a marathon the whole thing is, other than getting more lives. King Jet gives you unlimited lives, but that's the only instance. And if you run out of weapon energy on Jet King Robo, then you're hosed. There's healing and weapon energy recovery in the small bits of stage in between fights, but here it feels more like band-aids more than anything else. You don't have E-Tanks or anything to help you out in the middle of a rough fight. 9 extra lives is the best you got, and as far as the game's concerned, if you can't handle everything with just that, then that's your problem. It's not good, and it's not fun. It's just aggravating and annoying for no good reason. MM1 had similar sorts of nonsense, with tough stages before throwing you at a tough boss, notably in the fortress stages, with no mid-battle recovery, and it loving sucked then as well, though at least there it kept things fairly simple with AI patterns and the like, and you had the pause trick as an unintentional boon.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:19
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You do know Bass has a double jump, right?
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Aug 22, 2018 20:20
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Dabir posted:You do know Bass has a double jump, right? Wave Burner always starts shooting down. On top of that, Jet King Robo is only vulnerable at the cockpit, and double jump isn't enough to reach it on it's own and hit it with wave burner.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:25
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