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food court bailiff posted:oh boy is it time for this month's edition of "watch hyphz fundamentally misunderstand both conversations and pbta games all at once" already?
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Aug 22, 2018 22:34
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Even with no medical background I think "look for root causes" and "implement quarantine zones" are task that could be undertaken in a single roll. In D&D types, you don't "solve an entire dungeon" with a single roll, right? Same here.
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Aug 22, 2018 22:50
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I have never witnessed a player, in any system, as their declaration of intent, go "my character tries to solve everything, what do I roll" They always propose a concrete action, whether narrative or mechanical, that's applicable to the situation. It's the difference between proposing a solution to the narrative problem and just saying "okay GM I do whatever happens to solve this"
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Aug 22, 2018 23:07
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I wasn't sure how someone could mangle a concept as basic as "to do something, do it" but there you go
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Aug 22, 2018 23:14
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The flareups of hyphatitis in this thread are always so uncomfortable.
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Aug 22, 2018 23:14
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Even ignoring everything else about how wrong hyphz is about this, in Fellowship Overcome contains the provisio "if you are in position to act and have the means to stop it."
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Aug 22, 2018 23:21
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Also playing any RPG with hyphz must be a chore. "As you walk into the clearing you see a solitary Orc is sitting by a fire." "I roll charm to make him my ally." "OK, how?" *confused look* "How are you encouraging the orc to be your ally?" "...by rolling dice?" "What are you saying to him? Are you offering him food? Asking to join his fire?" "I got a 19. Are we friends now?"
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Aug 22, 2018 23:27
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dwarf74 posted:If Kai Tave has a wish to do it, he could probably do a better job than I. I'm still neck deep in Lancer so if you feel like you've got a better handle on it, go for it. holy poo poo
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Aug 22, 2018 23:51
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Splicer posted:"As you walk into the clearing you see a solitary Orc is sitting by a fire." Yea, we've had to do that because the last time we didn't (I was not GM) the party face threw his dice on the floor and demanded to respec because he wasn't being allowed to play a character with better social/deceptive skills than the player.
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Aug 22, 2018 23:59
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And once again we come to the root issue, which is that hyphz desperately needs to beat the poo poo out of everyone he plays with
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Aug 23, 2018 00:06
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What's the best RP system if I'm GMing for a group of unimaginative and violent people
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Aug 23, 2018 00:17
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Dr Cheeto posted:What's the best RP system if I'm GMing for a group of unimaginative and violent people Gamma world maybe?
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Aug 23, 2018 00:18
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There's a kernel of truth in hyphz's "play a character with skills the player doesn't have" but if you want to play a game where having charm over 5 solves the encounter why not just play Fallout? I know sometimes when I play, a situation happens that I think my character can overcome but I'm drawing a blank, and I just mention that out of character and the whole group might riff on some solutions, but only from time to time. It's sounds like the group of people you play with hyphz are just fundamentally missing part of the "roleplaying" puzzle pieces.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:18
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Dr Cheeto posted:What's the best RP system if I'm GMing for a group of unimaginative and violent people Pathfinder X-Crawl.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:20
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hyphz posted:Yea, we've had to do that because the last time we didn't (I was not GM) the party face threw his dice on the floor and demanded to respec because he wasn't being allowed to play a character with better social/deceptive skills than the player. I have never had a GM let dice be a complete substitute for effort. Regardless of how well you can roll, you still need to actually, y'know, say what you're doing, even if it's just 'my character points out how advantageous an alliance would be and asks the lord to consider their offer'.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:21
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You don't need to know what your diplomacy +35 character says to convince the king to give him the holy relic, but you do need to describe how the direction the arguement is coming from, if only to discern bonuses and penalties. "I tell him we need it to seal the demon king" makes the test easier than "I think it would look really good as a fashion statement". This isn't a hard concept.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:23
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hyphz posted:Yea, we've had to do that because the last time we didn't (I was not GM) the party face threw his dice on the floor and demanded to respec because he wasn't being allowed to play a character with better social/deceptive skills than the player. If you actually, factually pull that exact thing (by which I mean "I roll to charm and got a 19. Am I charming enough to charm the orc?" with no other words) then maybe role-playing games just aren't for you. I'm never going to expect/require someone to come up with their own inspiring action movie speech to use their Inspiring merit or whatever, but come the gently caress on at least put in a good faith effort to pretend to know how other people talk when they want to be friendly. If you can't at least muster an "I approach friendly-like and offer him some jerky from my rations, then attempt small talk" then maybe just realize your limitations as a human (or pod person attempting to RP a human who likes RPGs) and just don't make a social character? Or watch some old Bond flicks beforehand? Or literally anything other than throwing a tantrum because the GM is not a computer procedurally generating a bethesda game for you?
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Aug 23, 2018 00:25
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fool_of_sound posted:And once again we come to the root issue, which is that hyphz desperately needs to beat the poo poo out of everyone he plays with Including himself.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:27
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fool_of_sound posted:You don't need to know what your diplomacy +35 character says to convince the king to give him the holy relic, but you do need to describe how the direction the arguement is coming from, if only to discern bonuses and penalties. "I tell him we need it to seal the demon king" makes the test easier than "I think it would look really good as a fashion statement". This isn't a hard concept. Which is okay until things expect it to be otherwise. I mean, we've all seen those terrible TV shows where the face goes in and says what seems to be obviously just the right thing, when in fact it was just well written to hide the authorial fiat - that in a real situation they'd either to have made a madly lucky guess or have to do a bunch of background investigation and research in order to know that. Then the same people go to GM or write sample adventures where face characters are expected to do the same with either no opportunity to get the background or an insufficiently defined world for that background to exist. "There's an Orc sitting in the clearing, Orcs hate Elves and attack them on sight, you're an Elf but you have +40 Diplomacy, what do you say that matches that skill level?"
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Aug 23, 2018 00:29
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Even if you don't have any ideas just open it to brainstorming from the table and GM as to how your character's doing it - 'hmm i want to diplomatize the king' 'maybe you should reveal that we found out his daughter's plot to murder him' 'oh yeah i go in with that angle' 'don't forget the photos of her conjuring the Dread' 'oh sweet they'll be handy' - it puts everyone on the same page as to what's going on too.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:31
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hyphz posted:Which is okay until things expect it to be otherwise. I mean, we've all seen those terrible TV shows where the face goes in and says what seems to be obviously just the right thing, when in fact it was just well written to hide the authorial fiat - that in a real situation they'd either to have made a madly lucky guess or have to do a bunch of background investigation and research in order to know that. Then the same people go to GM or write sample adventures where face characters are expected to do the same with either no opportunity to get the background or an insufficiently defined world for that background to exist. "There's an Orc sitting in the clearing, Orcs hate Elves and attack them on sight, you're an Elf but you have +40 Diplomacy, what do you say that matches that skill level?" really a lot of your complaints feel like they're boiling down to 'the make believe game forces us to use our imaginations but what if my imagination sucks?'
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Aug 23, 2018 00:33
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hyphz posted:Which is okay until things expect it to be otherwise. I mean, we've all seen those terrible TV shows where the face goes in and says what seems to be obviously just the right thing, when in fact it was just well written to hide the authorial fiat - that in a real situation they'd either to have made a madly lucky guess or have to do a bunch of background investigation and research in order to know that. Then the same people go to GM or write sample adventures where face characters are expected to do the same with either no opportunity to get the background or an insufficiently defined world for that background to exist. "There's an Orc sitting in the clearing, Orcs hate Elves and attack them on sight, you're an Elf but you have +40 Diplomacy, what do you say that matches that skill level?" this has all the hallmarks of truly terrible GMing. if orcs hate elves, then the player should know that beforehand. you have to allow for takebacks and even then, who is asking for a blow-by-blow of a negotiation? all i want to know is a general approach, and the dice will tell us how it goes
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Aug 23, 2018 00:35
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"i wink at him because i'm so hot even elf-hating orcs will get flustered and dorky when i hit on them" "i act like a stereotypical orc and convince him i'm not like the prissy elves he's been taught to hate and am instead 'one of the good ones'" "i stare him down unblinkingly because i've been taught that that's a sign of respect among orcs, he sees what going for before he takes a swing at me"
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Aug 23, 2018 00:36
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Brother Entropy posted:really a lot of your complaints feel like they're boiling down to 'the make believe game forces us to use our imaginations but what if my imagination sucks?' That is actually something I feel about a lot of things - not about using imagination at all but when certain rules expect the players (and especially the GM) to be a bottomless fount of new ideas.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:41
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I regret to inform you that if your brain stops spontaneously generating ideas, you are dead.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:42
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hyphz posted:That is actually something I feel about a lot of things - not about using imagination at all but when certain rules expect the players (and especially the GM) to be a bottomless fount of new ideas. If you can't even come up with simple ideas then yes, roleplaying games that expect you to come up with simple ideas may be a problem.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:42
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Kai Tave posted:If you can't even come up with simple ideas then yes, roleplaying games that expect you to come up with simple ideas may be a problem. And you may be the target audience for D&D 5e.
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Aug 23, 2018 00:59
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dungeons and dragons truly is satan's game
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Aug 23, 2018 01:26
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It’s called dungeons and dragons not thespians and theosophy 
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Aug 23, 2018 01:38
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Arivia posted:And you may be the target audience for D&D 5e.  I didn't keep up, but did all that much really change between 4e and 5e? Or 3.5/Pathfinder and 5e? I'm pretty sure that no matter what rpg, you still need to come up with ideas.
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Aug 23, 2018 03:39
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Bedlamdan posted:
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Aug 23, 2018 03:48
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5E redeeming feature is that I can play it even if the other cretins on the group want to play 3.5 only so having a better, if not completely fixed version of it works wonders.
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Aug 23, 2018 03:52
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Plutonis posted:5E redeeming feature is that I can play it even if the other cretins on the group want to play 3.5 only so having a better, if not completely fixed version of it works wonders. in no way is 5e better than 3e unless you're too much of a simpleton to grasp basic arithmetic
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Aug 23, 2018 03:54
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gradenko_2000 posted:in no way is 5e better than 3e unless you're too much of a simpleton to grasp basic arithmetic 
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Aug 23, 2018 03:56
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Here's the situation where I'd seriously propose 5e: A mixed group between people who won't accept anything but D&D-likes, and beginners or people who actively dislike 3e's crunch. 5e replaces 3e's crunch with wishful thinking but as a GM I can work around that.
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Aug 23, 2018 03:57
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gradenko_2000 posted:in no way is 5e better than 3e unless you're too much of a simpleton to grasp basic arithmetic does not having a bajillion bloated supplements count as better?
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Aug 23, 2018 03:57
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S.J. posted:does not having a bajillion bloated supplements count as better? the best parts of 3e come in the "bajillion bloated supplements", because just lol at trying to play 3e with the PHB only
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Aug 23, 2018 04:00
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S.J. posted:does not having a bajillion bloated supplements count as better? no
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Aug 23, 2018 04:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:the best parts of 3e come in the "bajillion bloated supplements", because just lol at trying to play 3e with the PHB only there aren't any good parts of 3e but i get your point truth
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Aug 23, 2018 04:09
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Nothing like a nice fun bit of edition warring to cleanse the palate after another PbtA debate.
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Aug 23, 2018 04:10
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