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I think the biggest thing I want fixed at this point is the ability to melee attack buildings, generators and walls (and turrets that aren't taller than me). Walking right up to a wall or generator and finding that I couldn't was hugely disappointing
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Aug 24, 2018 15:32
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rocketrobot posted:I think the biggest thing I want fixed at this point is the ability to melee attack buildings, generators and walls (and turrets that aren't taller than me). Walking right up to a wall or generator and finding that I couldn't was hugely disappointing  Has that been changed since launch? I haven't bothered with defense missions since before the first super mega post launch patch. Even with a win, discovering the game can decide "Hey, let's prank anyone listening to advice to spread out your forces ASAP by having a leopard air drop tanks next to their base!" seemed a step too far in undue effort to reward ratio. Section Z fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 15:36
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Were vehicles always terrifying, punch way above their weight weapons platforms in BT (tabletop)? Or is this a design decision for the HBS game to give you more than just mechs to worry about? I'd really like to have my own little support squad of vehicles around, particularly to fill in gaps in themed or loreful missions. A challenge mode thing would be good i.e. base defense with a set roster or maps that played almost like puzzle missions?
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Aug 24, 2018 16:00
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I can't speak for the tabletop but they are definitely damage sponges in this unless you step on them.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:06
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I always wanted a little mini campaign for a mech warrior game where your just some scrub planetary commander who trying to fight off rebels and mercenaries using just tanks and vehicles and the while campaign is basically your side losing with you losing less hard
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Aug 24, 2018 16:09
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Southpaugh posted:Were vehicles always terrifying, punch way above their weight weapons platforms in BT (tabletop)? Or is this a design decision for the HBS game to give you more than just mechs to worry about? I'd really like to have my own little support squad of vehicles around, particularly to fill in gaps in themed or loreful missions. A challenge mode thing would be good i.e. base defense with a set roster or maps that played almost like puzzle missions? This is the first modern BT/MW game I can think of that hasn't nerfed vehicles sharply. The MC games, for example, rather skimped on both their weapons and armor and I don't think any of the vehicles in the MW games were all that much better off.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:12
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pangstrom posted:The idea there is that you are rewarded for getting behind a mech with hit options narrowed to the more-critical/less-armored ones. Agree you should BE ABLE to, but really if you're going after the legs then why get behind mechs? That didn't happen often on accident, when I played at least. Agean90 posted:I always wanted a little mini campaign for a mech warrior game where your just some scrub planetary commander who trying to fight off rebels and mercenaries using just tanks and vehicles and the while campaign is basically your side losing with you losing less hard
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Aug 24, 2018 16:12
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Southpaugh posted:Were vehicles always terrifying, punch way above their weight weapons platforms in BT (tabletop)? Or is this a design decision for the HBS game to give you more than just mechs to worry about? I'd really like to have my own little support squad of vehicles around, particularly to fill in gaps in themed or loreful missions. A challenge mode thing would be good i.e. base defense with a set roster or maps that played almost like puzzle missions? Tabletop, both yes and no. Short version: they can pack a ton more non-energy firepower and armor into a small package as well as mostly ignoring internal slot space. However, they have basically zero internal structure (ie once the armor's gone they're dead next hit) and suffer crits even when at full armor (it's very likely that you won't kill a tank by blasting through the armor, it will usually be rendered immobile or suffer an ammo/reactor explosion before that). They also don't have the free base heat sinks of a mech (unless they have a fusion engine, which is expensive and the vast majority of tanks don't have), and energy weapons have to be 100% heat neutral - you want a 1t medium laser? You're installing 3t of heat sinks with it. So they're tough and tend to carry huge AC and missile packs, but also can suffer freak disabling/kill shots at the drop of a hat.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:15
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They're a lot less fragile in the TT than they used to be. They now only get crits (non-motive) on 2's and 12's. vvvv With the occasional exception *cough* Vedette *cough* Taerkar fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 16:16
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Southpaugh posted:Were vehicles always terrifying, punch way above their weight weapons platforms in BT (tabletop)? Or is this a design decision for the HBS game to give you more than just mechs to worry about? I'd really like to have my own little support squad of vehicles around, particularly to fill in gaps in themed or loreful missions. A challenge mode thing would be good i.e. base defense with a set roster or maps that played almost like puzzle missions? Basically Vehicles can be min-maxed into death machines or max-mined into jokes, just like Mechs. But unlike Mechs a lot of the stock vehicles are decent to really loving good.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:54
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I would enjoy this too. the campaigns ending is you sitting in a prison cell after the regime you work for falls and one of the guys you we're fighting against walks in like "We whipped you, but drat you made us work for it, how'd you like a new job?" for that nice  feeling
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Aug 24, 2018 17:00
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Psychorider posted:That's obviously not true, steam absolutely does delta patching. When there is a file to be updated, Steam first makes a copy of it, downloads the delta-patch and applies it to the copy, then replaces the original file with the patched one. Maybe there are developers that have hosed up archives that move everything when you change one thing but that's on them, not Steam. I looked into this and remembered SteamPipe exists, which touts delta patching. So there's two possibilities: either steampipe delta doesn't work or none of the games I play use it properly, because huge rear end downloads is always the order of the day no matter the game and no matter the patch as an aside I wonder if the way Unreal/Unity/etc do resource packaging by default fights with how steampipe wants to do deltas so it's effectively not useful even if, technically, it exists Psion fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 17:14
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Too bad the game doesn't seem to take into account mobility type, as it would make things more interesting. Hover/Wheeled/Tracked vehicles had their own strengths and weaknesses with different terrain types, and it was one aspect of vehicles that put mechs ahead of them; most mechs will do fine dealing with a variety of terrain (especially with Jump Jets) but vehicles will struggle outside their 'preferred' type. Having a swampy map that is a lot of shallow water would mean hovertanks could run rings around your mechs, but a desert map that was fairly open would be much easier for you to chase down a tracked vehicle, for example.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:17
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Thats not the point though. What if there is a brawl going on and the mech I am shooting with just happens to be behind an enemy mech with weak legs? WHat if I chasing down an assassination target? What if I flanked the mech and my other mechs, that also shot it in the rear, happened to hit the legs a bunch and I would rather target a leg to knock the target over and thus knock it back an initiative phase rather than simply weakening its rear armor? There is no sensible reason that I should not be able to chose to shoot something I can see; you can see the legs (and the arms!) of a mech from behind.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:29
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It's also very annoying that when I'm shooting something from behind without a called shot, a ton of my shots will definitely hit the legs instead of the torso, but then when I want to be able to hit the legs from behind I can't. Either make it so you can't hit legs at all from behind, or make it so I can called shot them. I just want consistency!
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Aug 24, 2018 17:34
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So I decided to pick this game up because it was on sale, but the last mech game I remember playing was MW2:Mercenaries. Are there any good tutorial videos for how not to gently caress up horribly? Or at least not do something early on that will screw me over for later.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:37
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Oh! I didnt know you would be here at the topless beach, Atlas Senpai!
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Aug 24, 2018 18:45
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Panfilo posted:Too bad the game doesn't seem to take into account mobility type, as it would make things more interesting. Hover/Wheeled/Tracked vehicles had their own strengths and weaknesses with different terrain types, and it was one aspect of vehicles that put mechs ahead of them; most mechs will do fine dealing with a variety of terrain (especially with Jump Jets) but vehicles will struggle outside their 'preferred' type. You know. There was always something missing for me and it's mobility type. That would launch this game to the next level if you could customize your locomotion.
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Aug 24, 2018 18:53
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Testing out late-game Roguetech sandbox game: -Even when money is no object, the availability of parts is still an issue. It is especially aggrivating when your pilot panics and ejects, which, while saving the pilot, destroys whatever equipment you had in the head at the time. -You'll never have enough different engine ratings. On heavier mechs, there's less engine ratings that actually affect your speed (a 100 ton mech is only affected by a 100,200,300, or 400 rated engine). You can still mount an 'in between' rated engine but the problem with that is you're stuck with lower speed and wasted weight. Typically you end up with mechs that are either slow for their tonnage or have heavy engines hogging up a lot of tonnage. -XL engine upgrade kits go through a lot of attrition and while the upgrade can save you enormous amounts of weight on an assault mech, you'll run out of them pretty fast because they get destroyed easily. -As great as Double Heat sinks are, they take up so much space that they mainly only seem worth it on an all energy weapon mech. -Partial Wings are great, and I realized one counts as a jump jet in itself. Partial Wing+improved JJ gives you crazy long jump distance but like other fancy equipment attrition does a number on your supplies because there aren't many enemy stock mechs that carry these and they're tied to a narrow weight range. -If you compare the weight of a regular autocannon, an ultra variant is a steal since its only a few tons more, and a Rotary version follows the same logic. But since the regular stock weapons retain their potential +++ bonuses, it also might be worth keeping a really good one in lieu of the TurboDakka one. An AC/5 with bonus range, accuracy, and evasion pip ignore will not only weigh less than an Ultra AC/5 but retain the heat efficiency benefit of regular Autocannon, take up less space, and save weight and ammo. -NARC, TAG, and TAGGER all stack together and if you're going to build a melee mech try to cram all 3 on it. -Mechs built for maximum knockdown (melee, livefire training ammo,etc) should either act first or last; First because making the target unstable is one of the few ways to remove its evasion pips. Last because you want a knocked-down target to stand up before you immediately knock it down again. -Even though it is kind of nerfed, you can still build an accurate indirect-fire LRM boat. It just takes more time to get high enough Tactics skill, an Indirect Fire TTS and Command Console, and a mech with enough tonnage and hardpoints to make the most of it. The main downside of this is that the mech becomes a real one-trick pony that will always run out of ammo too soon, overheat too much to make the most of its launchers, or suffer counterbattery fire when it gets sensor locked and focus fired by 3 enemy LRM boats. -Hardened armor is INCREDIBLY good and totally worth the speed and weight that suffers. A melee-specc'ed 100 ton mech that has max armor this way and enough jump distance is NASTY up close and can absorb a hilarious amount of damage along the way. -ER Small lasers have amazing range for their tonnage. Most mechs don't have the hardpoints to make the most of the utility, but legendary mechs do. The lighter, faster legendary mechs work very well as an ER small laserboat. -Try to have 1 or 2 heat-specced loadouts in case you happen to be in Badlands/Martian/Lunar biomes. The AI is terrible with heat management and you can help it along in regions hostile to heat buildup. Conversely, use your crazy PPC and laser boats in Polar biomes.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:06
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binge crotching posted:So I decided to pick this game up because it was on sale, but the last mech game I remember playing was MW2:Mercenaries. Are there any good tutorial videos for how not to gently caress up horribly? Or at least not do something early on that will screw me over for later. I don't personally know of any tutorial videos but most stock mechs aren't terribad. Here's a guide from one of the devs: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1365402907 Honestly if you have questions on what to do with a mech just post here or the discord
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Aug 24, 2018 19:07
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I appreciate these longer posts because I love Rogue Tech (power armor aside) but the amount of info out there is pretty lacking
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Aug 24, 2018 19:14
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Panfilo posted:Testing out late-game Roguetech sandbox game: Another thing that makes hardened armor amazing is the fact that it doubles your leg armor, making your mech able to do DFA while still having a standard amount of armor on the legs even after 2-3 of them. Also when you are fully melee specced, you are almost always guarded meaning you take 1/2 damage to your massive amounts of armor. My 10 piloting 10 guts Dekker in his melee Gladiator (unique Black Knight) is by far the most effective member of my team.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:19
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Panfilo posted:-As great as Double Heat sinks are, they take up so much space that they mainly only seem worth it on an all energy weapon mech. Unless they changed it (which would be good) what makes Double Heat Sinks so broken in RogueTech is that, if they're the only Heat sink type on the mech, all the free engine heat sinks will convert to doubles, for no extra weight or space.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:53
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For those that didn't play the tabletop game but are tooling around in RogueTech, the way to know the lightest engine for a given speed on a particular mech is to take Mech TonnagexWalk Speed. On a 100 ton mech this is easy- to have it walk 3 it needs a 300 rated engine; if you put a 285 rated engine it will only move 2, but this is gonna be much heavier than simply a 200 rated engine for the same effect. Of course, we don't always have the luxury of having the perfect min-maxed engine for the job, so you work with what you've got. Another thing that keeps light mechs more relevant in RogueTech is the fact that lighter mechs can benefit from a wider variety of engine ratings. While an Atlas barely gets affected by a better rated engine, a Locust will see a massive improvement. And since lighter mechs can go much faster on a comparitavely lighter engine, it gives you much more granularity in deciding exactly how much tonnage and/or speed you want from a light mech. Since even half a ton here or there makes a huge difference when you don't have a lot of tonnage to work with, this is significant. While some people don't like this, because it makes the chassis feel irrelevant, remember there are existing variants of the same chassis with different speeds; some are slower and pack more weapons, some give up jump jets and use the tonnage toward a bigger engine, etc. The other thing is that they continue to find ways to keep each chassis unique. Right now they have quirks for many chassis types which give a bit more flavor to a specific mech or variant. This is especially nice for the 'uncommon' variants based on a particular pilot, since many of them carry tiny differences to the stock model.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:56
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DatonKallandor posted:Unless they changed it (which would be good) what makes Double Heat Sinks so broken in RogueTech is that, if they're the only Heat sink type on the mech, all the free engine heat sinks will convert to doubles, for no extra weight or space. They did change it. Now, the engine core is designated as SHS or DHS. Double Heat Sink engine cores are very rare, and cores themselves are a pain to get anyway since you need to knock out the pilot or bash the legs off; an engine kill eliminates the core as salvage. There's also Double Heat Sink Kits, which let you convert a Single Heat Sink engine to a Double Heat Sink one, but these are extremely rare too. One thing I forgot that might make heavier engines worth it- the number of 'built in' heat sinks seems to vary based on engine rating, so a bigger engine I THINK will have better heat reduction, but I'm not certain. I know on some engines you have to put in heat sinks manually whose tonnage is already factored into the engine weight (its just more space taken up, it also means you burn through a lot more heat sinks since they get crit a lot).
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Aug 24, 2018 20:00
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Engine DHS is a gigantic mistake and I'm glad people working at HBS know it.
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Aug 24, 2018 20:42
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Panfilo posted:They did change it. Now, the engine core is designated as SHS or DHS. Double Heat Sink engine cores are very rare, and cores themselves are a pain to get anyway since you need to knock out the pilot or bash the legs off; an engine kill eliminates the core as salvage. There's also Double Heat Sink Kits, which let you convert a Single Heat Sink engine to a Double Heat Sink one, but these are extremely rare too. The engine can have 1 heat sink in it for every 25 tons. It only comes stock with 10 max. If you have the DHS kit, they only affect those first 10. Additional heat sinks can be added to the engine fur 1 ton each, but they are just standard heat sinks (3 heat dissipation) after that initial 10. So a 300 engine with the DHS conversion can have at minimum 10 heat sinks for 60 dissipation at 19 tons of weight and a maximum of 12 heat sinks at 66 dissipation at 21 tons of weight. So even if you want to cram in more heat sinks, you only ever want the X25, X50 or X75 engines as well. There is never a good reason that I can see to use any engine rating that isn't divisible by 25. Edit: I'm not sure if the Light/XL/XXL engines affect the extra weight added by the additional heat sinks, but I don't think they do, I'd have to test it. deathbagel fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 21:25
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DatonKallandor posted:Engine DHS is a gigantic mistake and I'm glad people working at HBS know it. Can’t quote this hard enough.
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Aug 24, 2018 21:44
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DatonKallandor posted:Engine DHS is a gigantic mistake and I'm glad people working at HBS know it. In general I'm quite impressed by their willingness to tinker towards a better game.
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Aug 24, 2018 21:47
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That probably has to do with having Weisman on the case. So far a lot of their changes have been very good and they don’t seem easily swayed into breaking game balance due to complaints
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Aug 24, 2018 21:58
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:That probably has to do with having Weisman on the case. So far a lot of their changes have been very good and they don’t seem easily swayed into breaking game balance due to complaints
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Aug 24, 2018 22:04
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I hope they can patch PPCs to be good, I looooove large lasers in vanilla now but it has the side effect of making PPCs suck even more, comparatively.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:05
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I find it amazing and hilarious that the original creator of the franchise/IP is in change of the game design/company making the game, and people still bitch and moan like petulant children when a change they do not agree with (or understand (or care to understand)) is made. Hello and welcome to the internet friend!
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Aug 24, 2018 22:07
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Pornographic Memory posted:I hope they can patch PPCs to be good, I looooove large lasers in vanilla now but it has the side effect of making PPCs suck even more, comparatively. They are useful in RogueTech, even when crowded among 7 different PPC variants (Light, Snub Nosed, Standard, PPZ, ER, Pirate ER, and Heavy). Their potential bonuses are unique apart from laser weapons, sometimes having better stability damage or reduced heat. In contrast, an ER Large Laser won't have nearly as much stability damage, nor will it have an accuracy reducing debuff either. The PPC family all share the disruption debuff, and theres a PPC capacitor that cranks up the damage and heat for just a ton more.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:24
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Pornographic Memory posted:I hope they can patch PPCs to be good, I looooove large lasers in vanilla now but it has the side effect of making PPCs suck even more, comparatively. I think there’s a couple of ways to make it a better alternative to the LL:
I mean they are huge gently caress off lightning cannons. When it slams into you something bad should happen. A heat reduction is probably in order too but I don’t want them to be the default best either
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Aug 24, 2018 22:32
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DatonKallandor posted:Engine DHS is a gigantic mistake and I'm glad people working at HBS know it.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:36
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gently caress your heat neutral boat dreams
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Aug 24, 2018 22:39
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I'd like to see the disruption effect stack too, it would make platforms like the Awesome that much more awesome. But I'd be worried that we would more likely be on the receiving end of it since you're already outnumbered and there's plenty of vehicles and turrets that shoot PPC as well.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:40
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CaptCommy posted:gently caress your heat neutral boat dreams Lol, you should see the Marauder II in RogueTech. drat thing has a heat capacity bar nearly half the length of the screen. You could drop that mech down a volcano and it still wouldn't shut down.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:43
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I think at some point in the thread someone modded PPC’s to stack up to only 3 times, to prevent that snowballing effect, which seems like a good compromise
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Aug 24, 2018 22:44
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