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NRVNQSR posted:Why do people keep looking at characters defined around their hunt for ultimate magical power and saying "yes, this person seems like a good candidate to be a Ruler"? It's all Amakusa's fault, isn't it? The 4 current rulers in the game are a french hick woman, a fake detective from a novel, Amakusa, and a summer unit Rulers is not exactly a consistent class, much like everything else in FGO
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Aug 25, 2018 01:36
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I believe they’ve stated that they want to stick to stuff that belongs on the fate universe. Chances of them doing a collab with some other unrelated property are very slim. We can still hope for Emiya San chi no kyou no gohan though. Personally what I’m curious about is how far do they continue to pursue lovecraftian content like they have been in JP content recently. Sooner or later they’re going to reach the hounds of tindalos, which would not be good for Chaldea.
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Aug 25, 2018 01:43
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Tae posted:The 4 current rulers in the game are a french hick woman, a fake detective from a novel, Amakusa, and a summer unit I wouldn't say there's no consistency. They're all famous Catholics.
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Aug 25, 2018 01:46
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All the FGO events so far fit in the TMverse parallel universe stuff that has been mentioned here and there and described in more detail in Extella.
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Aug 25, 2018 01:55
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I forgot to play for 3 days, ruining my login streak. Is there any way I can purge the shame?  NRVNQSR posted:I wouldn't say there's no consistency. They're all famous Catholics. Holmes is a famous Catholic? atelier morgan posted:if granblue was able to get a p5 collab... Shadowverse had a FSN collab. Whenever I play Shadowcraft I have Seiba Alter as my leader and one of the cards. 
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Aug 25, 2018 02:04
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ZiegeDame posted:If anyone in Umineko is a ruler it's Featherine Very fair point
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Aug 25, 2018 02:13
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Tae posted:The 4 current rulers in the game are a french hick woman, a fake detective from a novel, Amakusa, and a summer unit Ruler is a class made up of people who act in interest of the grail and maintain human history, they are basically glorified referees. The only one who directly breaks this rule is Amakusa and it's further evidence of what great of a story Apocrypha is that one of the two characters in the class it introduces immediately breaks the rules of the class once you know anything about him.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:16
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Magical Woman of a Certain Age Drake is doing quite well for herself.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:22
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Captain Baal posted:The only one who directly breaks this rule is Amakusa and it's further evidence of what great of a story Apocrypha is that one of the two characters in the class it introduces immediately breaks the rules of the class once you know anything about him.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:25
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Cuntellectual posted:Holmes is a famous Catholic? Indeed he is; it doesn't come up very often in the stories, though.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:26
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Endorph posted:tbf 'introducing rules just to break them immediately' isnt exactly unique to apo in this franchise Oh definitely not. It's certainly a case by case basis thing but like, it feels sort of lame when they introduce this very specific class and Amakusa breaks all of the rules of it because the story needs to happen. Not that this is the first ridiculously convoluted thing about the character, but it's something that also sticks out especially since the class has been expanded upon since Apocrypha.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:41
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really the bigger issue with amakusa is they don't do a ton with him being amakusa other than just the fact that amakusa is the villain of the novel that nasu ripped off for f/sn originally. like the fact that he's a christian martyr feels so tangential to his deal because it's so jrpg villain-y. if he wanted to destroy japan or everyone who didn't believe in god or whatever basically the same story would happen but it'd feel more related to him, instead of some weird soul removal afterlife thing that i guess is meant to be the rapture, kind of?
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Aug 25, 2018 02:43
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Captain Baal posted:Oh definitely not. It's certainly a case by case basis thing but like, it feels sort of lame when they introduce this very specific class and Amakusa breaks all of the rules of it because the story needs to happen. Not that this is the first ridiculously convoluted thing about the character, but it's something that also sticks out especially since the class has been expanded upon since Apocrypha. Are we even given so much as a handwaved excuse as to why he breaks all the rules the way he does?
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Aug 25, 2018 02:45
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Captain Baal posted:Oh definitely not. It's certainly a case by case basis thing but like, it feels sort of lame when they introduce this very specific class and Amakusa breaks all of the rules of it because the story needs to happen. Not that this is the first ridiculously convoluted thing about the character, but it's something that also sticks out especially since the class has been expanded upon since Apocrypha. Literally every single Holy Grail War, in every continuity, breaks the rules. It has never gone down the "official" way it's supposed to.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:51
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:Are we even given so much as a handwaved excuse as to why he breaks all the rules the way he does? basically I think the entire point of separation with Apocrypha is that, instead of the Matous summoning Avenger into the Grail, they instead deliberately try to get a Ruler for themselves. apparently Amakusa is the only one they could get in Japan for some reason
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Aug 25, 2018 02:52
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:Are we even given so much as a handwaved excuse as to why he breaks all the rules the way he does? Einzbern bullshit that made them want to summon a proper Ruler servant, but summoning a Ruler at all was a pretty big shift from any of the previous grail wars by the third one so summoning Amakusa at all was the compromise for that since it was in Japan. He at some point came into contact with the grail and got a real body, similar to how Gil does at the end of Fate/Zero and from then on just sort of does whatever the hell he wants because he's incredibly strong. Piell posted:Literally every single Holy Grail War, in every continuity, breaks the rules. It has never gone down the "official" way it's supposed to. Thanks? I didn't say that wasn't the case? I said in the case of the ruler class and how new it is it feels a little lame they just suddenly break the rules of it, but I also said that's hardly the first problem with Amakusa.
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Aug 25, 2018 02:53
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I just helped Medea Lily summon and then kill a Demon Pillar (Haagenti for those interested) to use as ingredients to make an eternal pancake. This game is good.
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Aug 25, 2018 03:16
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as an aside it's lol that summer medb has lines hitting on tomoe, scathach, and skadi, and her lines about 'handsome men' have mostly changed into 'handsome braves,' and this is reflected in her charm hitting both genders now
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Aug 25, 2018 03:25
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The problem with Amakusa in particular is that while Fate does break the rules all the time, there's always a reason given. Like, basically every rulebreaking in FSN actually is explained - the various screwy things regarding the grail in the 4th and 5th wars (corrupting wishes into their most destructive form, summoning anti-heroes, etc) were mostly due to the Einzberns accidentally corrupting it with Angry Man; Rin managing more control then she should have with command seals being due to her incredibly high magical power (assuming Archer was even telling the truth). Another example, Medea kinda summoning a Servant herself, was more her bending the rules rather than actually breaking them. Meanwhile, while the Einzberns were again trying to cheat in the 3rd in the Apocrypha continuity - they just tried to summon a Ruler instead of an Avenger - any other break with the system should have an explanation given. The specific requirements to be eligible to be summoned as a Ruler are to have literally no desire for the Grail whatsoever. We are never given a reason, or even an inference, how they somehow managed to fit someone who didn't even meet the base requirement of the class into that container in the first place. Especially since were they even aiming for Amakusa in particular, or just a Ruler in general? That actually is a huge break with how all the competently written Type-Moon functions, even if it too is breaking rules all over the place.
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Aug 25, 2018 03:28
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So I'm not a big anime guy but if I want to learn a little more about the FGO universe what are some good options?
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Aug 25, 2018 03:34
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vulturesrow posted:So I'm not a big anime guy but if I want to learn a little more about the FGO universe what are some good options?
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Aug 25, 2018 03:36
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vulturesrow posted:So I'm not a big anime guy but if I want to learn a little more about the FGO universe what are some good options? There's a visual novel called Fate/Stay Night that's real good if you've got a...few...hours to kill.
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Aug 25, 2018 03:41
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vulturesrow posted:So I'm not a big anime guy but if I want to learn a little more about the FGO universe what are some good options? Unlimited Blade Works TV series is on Netflix, the first Heaven's Feel movie should be coming out to it relatively soon as well, and Fate/Zero TV series is also on netflix, these are the general entry points people use. I'd recommend reading the VN that everything is based on tbh, but you probably don't wanna invest the time into reading a 40+ hour long book with pictures and music. Everything else is a little secondary but there's also the Apocrypha anime and Fate/Extra Last Encore anime as well if you want more after you get done with those.
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Aug 25, 2018 03:45
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The one true must-watch is Carnival Phantasm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62c7_zKoSV8
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Aug 25, 2018 03:57
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"Take my jewel, I want to die" "NO gently caress YOU, I'll fight you anyway and take your jewel"
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Aug 25, 2018 04:08
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How exactly would one go about watching Carnival Phantasm?
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Aug 25, 2018 04:43
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Of course it matters whether you wear tiger or leopard. One is chic. The other is... inelegant.
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Aug 25, 2018 05:12
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Captain Baal posted:Unlimited Blade Works TV series is on Netflix, the first Heaven's Feel movie should be coming out to it relatively soon as well, and Fate/Zero TV series is also on netflix, these are the general entry points people use. I'd recommend reading the VN that everything is based on tbh, but you probably don't wanna invest the time into reading a 40+ hour long book with pictures and music. I'm not necessarily opposed to checking out the VN. Is it easy to get a hold of or are we getting into  territory?
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Aug 25, 2018 05:13
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For easily accessible games, I think you're limited to Fate/Extra and Fate/Extella when it comes to games with lore and stuff that actually connects to FGO (So not games like Unlimited Codes which are basically plotless in comparison  )Am I forgetting any? Is /Stay Night actually reasonably obtainable these days or do you still need to import?
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Aug 25, 2018 05:16
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It's not on steam and AFAIK never got an official translation.
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Aug 25, 2018 05:17
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ZiegeDame posted:How exactly would one go about watching Carnival Phantasm? all of it is on youtube
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Aug 25, 2018 05:37
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Lord Koth posted:The problem with Amakusa in particular is that while Fate does break the rules all the time, there's always a reason given. Like, basically every rulebreaking in FSN actually is explained - the various screwy things regarding the grail in the 4th and 5th wars (corrupting wishes into their most destructive form, summoning anti-heroes, etc) were mostly due to the Einzberns accidentally corrupting it with Angry Man; Rin managing more control then she should have with command seals being due to her incredibly high magical power (assuming Archer was even telling the truth). Another example, Medea kinda summoning a Servant herself, was more her bending the rules rather than actually breaking them. They were definitely aiming for Amakusa. IIRC, it's deliberate because they anticipated that he was going to be shoved into the Ruler class despite not fitting it.
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Aug 25, 2018 06:27
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yeah you still have to import F/SN if you want to play the VN legally. The most recent patch at least works with the Realta Nua version
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Aug 25, 2018 07:53
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Lord Koth posted:The problem with Amakusa in particular is that while Fate does break the rules all the time, there's always a reason given. Like, basically every rulebreaking in FSN actually is explained - the various screwy things regarding the grail in the 4th and 5th wars (corrupting wishes into their most destructive form, summoning anti-heroes, etc) were mostly due to the Einzberns accidentally corrupting it with Angry Man; Rin managing more control then she should have with command seals being due to her incredibly high magical power (assuming Archer was even telling the truth). Another example, Medea kinda summoning a Servant herself, was more her bending the rules rather than actually breaking them. My interpretation is that Amakusa originally didn't have any desire for the grail, but during the course of the war, he grew to care deeply for the Einzbern master, so when she got herself killed, he concocted the idea of gaining the grail in order to fix the world that saw someone like her killed. As for why he continues to be summoned as a Ruler, well... the Throne of Heroes doesn't exactly do Takebacks when it comes to assigning Classes. Once he qualifies for a class, that class is permanently unlocked for him even if at a later point, his goals/abilities shift to disqualify him from that class.
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Aug 25, 2018 10:46
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really liking Magical Saint Knuckle✝Martha for this event
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Aug 25, 2018 11:46
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Lord Koth posted:The problem with Amakusa in particular is that while Fate does break the rules all the time, there's always a reason given. Like, basically every rulebreaking in FSN actually is explained - the various screwy things regarding the grail in the 4th and 5th wars (corrupting wishes into their most destructive form, summoning anti-heroes, etc) were mostly due to the Einzberns accidentally corrupting it with Angry Man; Rin managing more control then she should have with command seals being due to her incredibly high magical power (assuming Archer was even telling the truth). Another example, Medea kinda summoning a Servant herself, was more her bending the rules rather than actually breaking them. Eh, I can see it. After all, it's not the first time that rulebreaking Grail fuckery ended up summoning someone who didn't even normally qualify for the class they were summoned as. In the original F/SN, Kojiro didn't really qualify as an Assassin (although the rule back then was that all Assassins should be Hassans, and look how well that one held up over time); that class mismatch was just one of the many consequences of his oddball summoning. It sounds like the real problem with Amakusa is that the writing didn't really sell the concept well. As convoluted as Fate tends to be, the individual bits are often pretty simple when you boil them down. For example, Gil was a super powerful super jackass who accidentally got a bath in jackass juice. EMIYA was Emiya who got sent to superhero hell and decided it wasn't all it was cracked up to be and went half-insane with despair. Put aside all the magic bullshit and time fuckery and everything else and the base concept is pretty simple. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 25, 2018 13:53
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In addition to that, breaking your fictional rules works best when it takes the form of "actually the rules you thought you knew aren't the real rules, here are the real rules which show that thing is actually fine". Maybe the novels handle it better, but in the anime Amakusa feels less like that and more like "a wizard did it".
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Aug 25, 2018 15:49
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It should be noted that only Fuyuki's grail had that "all assassins must be hassan" rule, though of course it ain't followed in apocrypha either Maybe, just maybe, apocrypha really is pretty bad official fanfiction
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Aug 25, 2018 18:04
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Stolen from the FGO subreddit:
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Aug 25, 2018 18:23
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Ledgy posted:It should be noted that only Fuyuki's grail had that "all assassins must be hassan" rule, though of course it ain't followed in apocrypha either Yes, that's Apocrypha's unforgivable sin, discarding a rule that no one has cared about for a decade. loooool It's not like Apocrypha just forgets the rule's existence, either. In f/apo world, the grail system is public knowledge among magi after Darnic discloses its inner workings. Because of this, smaller grail wars happen all around the world and every Hassan is summoned at some point and their tricks and abilities become known quantities. Obviously this would disadvantage the Assassin class greatly, so among the many modifications Darnic makes to the grail, the Hassan rule is dissolved.
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Aug 25, 2018 19:56
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