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ulmont posted:I did ten years as a biglaw Intellectual Property associate. Your understanding is flat wrong. Could you elaborate before I scratch it off too? Looking specifically at soft IP litigation.
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Aug 25, 2018 19:53
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Very few people do soft IP litigation full time. I wouldn’t target it.
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Aug 25, 2018 20:01
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You don't get to pick you idiot. That's not how any of this works. We don't match into specialties. We do what our partners demand.
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Aug 25, 2018 20:09
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Pretty sure your demonstrated interests can still impact your trajectory
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Aug 25, 2018 20:32
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GET MONEY posted:Pretty sure your demonstrated interests can still impact your trajectory More than likely they just rule you out of things. Your most marketable trait at a law firm is being open to doing whatever you’re told.
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Aug 25, 2018 20:43
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:I'm surprised the term magic bullet lawyer wasn't in widespread use. Except when the defense finds one, all the DA has to do is call "I am rubber, you are glue, the bounces of me and sticks on you" and you lose. For the state, the bullets aren't so much magic as much as you're the only one allowed to use them. **May not be applicable in CT, where the DAs are fair and strong and wise and the rule of law is a friend and mentor.
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Aug 25, 2018 20:56
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Look, if you take a bunch of tax and business classes, you will be more likely to work in tax as a lawyer. If you take a bunch of trial ad and civil procedure, more likely to be a litigator. More important for biglaw I think is the grades you get in general. But obviously someone with the tax/transactional/regulatory foundation in coursework is more likely to get those assignments, meet those partners, and in theory not totally gently caress that work up.
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Aug 25, 2018 21:15
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Why would you take his side against me
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Aug 25, 2018 21:43
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I'm talking to anyone else who may be lurking. Goober isn't for real
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Aug 25, 2018 21:46
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Why would you take his side against me Et tu Phil?
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Aug 25, 2018 21:51
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GET MONEY posted:Could you elaborate before I scratch it off too? Looking specifically at soft IP litigation. Specifically for soft IP litigation, look below. There aren't enough cases to go around. gvibes posted:Very few people do soft IP litigation full time. I wouldn’t target it.
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Aug 25, 2018 23:37
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I met a guy this weekend who is joining an IP firm to do IP litigation and can't sit for the patent bar. I thought it was weird but don't let these naysayers stop you GET MONEY.
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Aug 25, 2018 23:40
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Popero posted:I met a guy this weekend who is joining an IP firm to do IP litigation and can't sit for the patent bar. I thought it was weird but don't let these naysayers stop you GET MONEY. Nah, this is perfectly common - lots of patent litigators who can’t sit for the patent bar. (Probably more who can’t than can.) What’s uncommon is full time (c)/(tm) litigators.
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Aug 26, 2018 00:16
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Kalman posted:Nah, this is perfectly common - lots of patent litigators who can’t sit for the patent bar. (Probably more who can’t than can.) Correct.
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Aug 26, 2018 01:20
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Kalman posted:What’s uncommon is full time (c)/(tm) litigators. Yep, because of people like me, whose soft IP practice boils down to repeatedly telling the employees of deep pocketed clients, “no, you cannot use [piece of soft IP] without permission.” Edit: also c&d’s and licensing agreements, which also prevent soft ip litigation from happening Unamuno fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 01:39
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I sit with the entire trademarks team at my company. Their clients are so dumb. They will never be unemployed.
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Aug 26, 2018 04:31
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Can anyone inform me about the practice of being a legal investigator? A family friend is attempting to forward me for such a position at an NY firm.
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Aug 26, 2018 06:39
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GET MONEY posted:Pretty sure your demonstrated interests can still impact your trajectory Can I tell you something honestly if you aren't a troll? I'm on a hiring committee at a NYC big law firm. I (and everyone else doing what I do) don't give two fucks about your extracurriculars or your demonstrated interests or your classes or whatever. I care about your grades and whether you can come across in a 30 minute interview as a normal human being. If you really really really want to get in big law just worry about getting your rear end in the door. Then, once you are in the summer program, you can gently caress around with different practice groups or whatever. But unless you're literally a Pomeroy at NYU or whatever the gently caress the equivalent is at Columbia or whatever at Harvard I don't give a flying gently caress about your preferences. I'm not in the wrap meeting at the end of OCI going "ugh I just love how much he was into soft IP." mikeraskol fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 06:48
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mikeraskol posted:Can I tell you something honestly if you aren't a troll? I'm on a hiring committee at a NYC big law firm. I (and everyone else doing what I do) don't give two fucks about your extracurriculars or your demonstrated interests or your classes or whatever. I care about your grades and whether you can come across in a 30 minute interview as a normal human being. That sounds almost as if you care more about what they can give you than what you can give them. I thought us millenials would not accept that kind of treatment.
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Aug 26, 2018 07:09
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Discendo Vox posted:Can anyone inform me about the practice of being a legal investigator? A family friend is attempting to forward me for such a position at an NY firm. It probably depends on the state. You may need to have a PI card, and a background as a cop really helps.
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Aug 26, 2018 07:38
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nm posted:It probably depends on the state. You may need to have a PI card, and a background as a cop really helps. How does a "Legal Investigator" differ from a PI anyway other than being hired by a better class of people?
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Aug 26, 2018 07:49
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Munin posted:How does a "Legal Investigator" differ from a PI anyway other than being hired by a better class of people? If you work for a DA's office in CA you get a badge, a gun, and a cop pension.
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Aug 26, 2018 08:01
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Munin posted:That sounds almost as if you care more about what they can give you than what you can give them. I thought us millenials would not accept that kind of treatment. I’m not accepting of poo poo treatment and am still unemployed as a result  I just found out there’s a florida state tax credit for hiring me as well. I represent at least $12-15k in tax credits at the state and federal level. I need to pitch this more.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:00
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Mr. Nice! posted:I’m not accepting of poo poo treatment and am still unemployed as a result I really don't understand why you don't go back to school for econ MA (I think you mentioned that at one point), you can get much better treatment in other fields. If you have an attitude for math and don't want to go back to school then consider trying an actuarial exam. At one of my internships there were 4 interns above 30 and while it's a tough EL market it's not worse than law.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:12
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I tossed around the idea of starting grad school this fall for a one year MS in either finance or economics. I had the go ahead from both departments based on my undergrad (and GI bill to spend), but my law school career counselor said it would end my legal career before it started if I went back to school. So I put off the GRE to try to job hunt. If I am going back to school it won’t be until next year as a result. I clearly make good decisions.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:25
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mikeraskol posted:Can I tell you something honestly if you aren't a troll? I'm on a hiring committee at a NYC big law firm. I (and everyone else doing what I do) don't give two fucks about your extracurriculars or your demonstrated interests or your classes or whatever. I care about your grades and whether you can come across in a 30 minute interview as a normal human being. I agree - and have been on the hiring committee for a big firm for the past few years as well. No one cares what your personal interests are. If you only care about getting paid all day while solving problems or whatever, just do M&A. You'll spend your first few years doing diligence on transactions - reading over contracts from the target, trying to spot issues and then translate said issues into a concise bullet point easily digested by business people who do not give a poo poo. As you grow into your career, you'll start doing the same for the actual transaction documents where you basically translate business speak into a legal document. The practice is also extremely broad and every major firm has an enormous group that does it - you'll GET MONEY and have the best shot at big law.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:29
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Mr. Nice! posted:I tossed around the idea of starting grad school this fall for a one year MS in either finance or economics. I had the go ahead from both departments based on my undergrad (and GI bill to spend), but my law school career counselor said it would end my legal career before it started if I went back to school. So I put off the GRE to try to job hunt. I haven't followed the thread regularly - but why did you give up Taco life for struggling lawyer life?
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Aug 26, 2018 15:30
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mikeraskol posted:Can I tell you something honestly if you aren't a troll? I'm on a hiring committee at a NYC big law firm. I (and everyone else doing what I do) don't give two fucks about your extracurriculars or your demonstrated interests or your classes or whatever. I care about your grades and whether you can come across in a 30 minute interview as a normal human being.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:35
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Sab0921 posted:I haven't followed the thread regularly - but why did you give up Taco life for struggling lawyer life? I was at a point where anytime I wasn’t working in the truck, my knee and back hurt so bad that I was basically laid up all day. The only consistent way I could make money was off drunk college kids every thurs-saturday night. The food truck business is fickle, and it really needs to be your passion to make it. My body is much better post sale. Also it’s nice to not have a work schedule of 9pm to 3-4 am every single weekend. It’s hard to actually meet other adults when you work the only time they’re ever free. I figured surely since I passed the bar I’d be able to stumble at least into a state legal job, but I can’t seem to do that. Right now I’m waiting to see my MPRE results and nursing a hip surgery from two weeks ago before I start sweating my next move. With luck, I’ll be licensed in a few weeks and able to walk. Gonna send out applications state wide at that point (and maybe some federal ones) since I’ve looked mostly local at this point. I got a lovely offer from a local class action plaintiff firm. I made a counteroffer to ask that I get paid at least market wages. Have not heard back from them in a week. I’m just grateful the navy broke my body as bad as they did because I’d be stuck working a register or something somewhere at the moment otherwise.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:48
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nm posted:It probably depends on the state. You may need to have a PI card, and a background as a cop really helps. nm posted:If you work for a DA's office in CA you get a badge, a gun, and a cop pension. Jesus, why does he think my graduate degree qualifies me in any way for that? Why does my network keep sending me face-first into brick walls? Why didn't I accept that offer from Tufts? edit: correction, the position he wants to put me forward for is "chief knowledge officer". He somehow got the titles confused. Everything's coming up Vox! Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2018 16:09
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Ani posted:Agree with this, except that if you apply to a firm that has a large practice that isn't something law students want to do (ie, something niche like aircraft leasing), then expressing an interest in that could be helpful. If you are especially interested in M&A or cap markets though, no one cares. Very fair point.
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Aug 26, 2018 17:41
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Week 2: no running water in the office. Just desert law things.
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Aug 26, 2018 23:42
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Up front, I know a lot of this is probably redundant with things I've typed before. As usual, my posts probably belong just as much in E&N as here, but I like all of you and you know my history. And it is law related, obviously. I thought I would give a bit of an update (perhaps a non-update, but you get the point). I hope it has not been too short a period of time since the last one, as I try not the make this into my personal pain blog. I am doing this to some degree out of therapeutic purpose to get this out of my head and share it – thank you all for tolerating it. I am still on leave from my firm - it has been a year and a few months now. I've tried some different medications during that time - nothing seems to have helped (again, I followed psychiatrist's orders, did not discontinue anything until told, etc.). At this point, the psychiatrist has essentially given up on medication. He’s talked vaguely about LSD or psilocybin having promising research, but I’m not exactly sure what to do about that, as it’s not exactly like it’s legal, and I’m not exactly the sort to just go find them even if I wanted to take the risk. I've seen a couple of different therapists (for a long while, at the same time) weekly. Have tried group therapy as well (again, weekly), though I am probably about to discontinue that as it seems to do nothing, and at some point I have to draw a line on expenditures. I'd happily pay if I thought it was helping me improve, but I don't see it. I recently spoke with the in-house attorney at a client of mine (well, a client before I took leave), just to keep in touch and catch up with him. He's one of those guys where you could tell the conversations we had over the years became as much about being friends (if in different cities) as it was about just a business relationship. He asked how I was doing. At first, I gave him the standard "I'm just taking some time off to be with my kids, reassess what I want, etc." Frankly, it seemed pretty clear that he saw through that (most people aren't "taking some time" for over a year, with nothing definitive about when they're coming back). I made the decision to open up to him a little more, and explain my circumstances. Not a full, 100% blow by blow, but enough to let him know I also had some health issues, was not sleeping, and needed to step away for a bit, etc. He asked the obvious question that most people would have (how are you paying rent and eating), and pretty quickly deduced that I was on disability, presumably for anxiety/other mental health related reasons. A smart attorney who quickly cuts to the truth of things - what a surprise, huh? It's difficult to know in situations like this how much to share. I know one of the whole points of mental health treatment is to learn that it is okay to be vulnerable and open, and to get support from friends and colleagues. At the same time, I strongly worry that I am an oversharer. I also know, in this profession, that word getting out that you have left work because of any mental health matters feels like it can be an utter career death sentence. It is very hard for me to find the balance, particularly when a smart person, who is also at least some form of friend, is probing. I guess I just have to try to find some comfort that I did what I thought best in the moment. My biggest issue out of the call, that has really spiked my anxiety for a few days now, was his overall response. Please understand nothing he said was threatening or out of malice, he was genuinely concerned and providing advice as a friend. He said that while perhaps a year or even two year absence might be reasonably understood and overlooked, anything really longer than that would kill my chances of getting hired for anything as an attorney in the future, certainly for a firm or decent in-house position. He said that he understood I had some money coming in now, but that he has had family/friends experience with disability payments, and the reality is, they will be cut-off. His point was that the insurance companies simply look for any reason to get people off, legitimate or not, and will eventually simply cut-off the payment. (This frankly echoes what my own attorney said, albeit he was not quite as strong about it, but it was pretty close.) So, he said, I’m now in a situation where I could find myself cut-off in a year or two (or whenever, really), with no other training or career to fall back on or do, and essentially unable to find employment in my own profession (if I could even work a job in my own profession, given my anxiety and depression). But as he said, the longer you stay away, the harder it is to get back. At the same time, I know that if I go take some in-house position now, that even if I could somehow find one, I might quite likely flame out. I could return to sleeping roughly a few hours a night. Of sweating during conference calls. Of shaking from anxiety, of zoning out and rereading the same paragraph over and over because I cannot get my mind to focus on the provision. Of being indecisive, out of fear of there being something that I missed. Things like that, that led me to have to leave in the first place. It’s one of the things that bothers me about disabled status. They treat it like it is binary – you can work or you cannot. But for me, it’s like, how do you know unless you try? And if you try and find that you still can’t, what then? It’s like they think there is this light that goes off that tells you “You’re ready now,” but there is not. To some degree, you have no way of knowing if you can handle it without trying it, and if you try it, you’re then deemed not disabled. It’s almost like someone who had a badly broken leg who is told to test the leg, but just by the act of testing the leg, it means you’re deemed healed, even if the leg collapses out from under you when you test it. Let alone getting into the issue of having to apply for things, and interview with people, pretending to be absolutely rock solid certain you’re great for the job, when you have completely fear and anxiety about your ability to perform it. I feel like I am just drifting, without any understanding of when or if things will get better, and that produces its own anxiety. I’ve taken the advice to just let things be, and not put pressure on myself. But here I am, a year and a few months later, and I do not feel like I’ve come any closer to solving my problem. I have no meaning or purpose in life. I’m not even sure if I’m supposed to have meaning or purpose. I have tried things. I’ve gone steadily to the gym, and done the cardio and lifted the heavy weights five times a week. I’ve volunteered a bit. I’ve tried to just be mellow and play some video games. I’ve gone on long walks. I’ve tried things like fishing and kayaking. None of these things seem to make a dent. In any event, I’m not sure how an afternoon fishing helps resolve my issues regarding work, and my career that is blowing up, without anything to replace it. Everyone tells you that advice of “give it time,” but then when you see so much time pass by, you wonder if it is just a crutch of some sort. A wasting of your life, under the guise of “healing.” But then there is nothing I want to go do, no interest or passion, and therapy has not helped with that. And it is not like the anxiety, depression, etc. have left. And in the meantime, as my client/friend said, giving it time means watching the prospect of ever having a meaningful legal career continue just become less and less likely. When I left the firm, I had hopes that the time away would get me some clarity, some medication would help, I would find some answers. I just do not feel any of that. And it's terrifying me, because I don't know how long this goes on. Do I just keep floating, vaguely hoping to feel better, for the rest of my life? As "give it more time," becomes more weeks, months, and years? Meanwhile, i'm not working, and my ability to ever get meaningful work becomes more and more unlikely for exactly the reasons my client/friend said? So that’s where I am. For some reason I have the Major Tom lyrics in my head, “Drifting, falling, floating, weightless” in my head. I really do not know what else I am supposed to be doing, or should do. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Aug 27, 2018 |
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Aug 27, 2018 00:08
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I can't believe it's been a year already. There is no easy answer here but my personal experiences with friends and familys disability have been more positive. I actually tried to convince my wife to go on disability since I'm convinced neither her physical (just got diverticulitis recently) or mental health are compatible with the stress of working. That being said I have a friend who was a biglaw lawyer, had something weird happen, presto disability. That was over a decade ago. This person has been very careful to stay off social media and such because they are in phenomenal shape but other than that have had no keeping disability payments coming in. Honestly if I were in your shoes I'd just keep on trying therapists and try your best to live carefree. I'm working on that myself by doing what half of America does and ignoring debt, otherwise I'm a nonstop ball of anxiety all day every day for years on end . Are you supporting a family? Or can you just crash on someone's couch at the end of the day if you need to?
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Aug 27, 2018 00:26
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mastershakeman posted:I can't believe it's been a year already. There is no easy answer here but my personal experiences with friends and familys disability have been more positive. I actually tried to convince my wife to go on disability since I'm convinced neither her physical (just got diverticulitis recently) or mental health are compatible with the stress of working. More positive in what way? That they've managed to retain disability without it being really challenged by the insurer? Or that they have healed and gotten better and gone back to meaningful, decently paying work? mastershakeman posted:That being said I have a friend who was a biglaw lawyer, had something weird happen, presto disability. That was over a decade ago. This person has been very careful to stay off social media and such because they are in phenomenal shape but other than that have had no keeping disability payments coming in. Might I ask for a general idea of what his disability was? Was it mental health related stuff like mine, or some physical malady? mastershakeman posted:Honestly if I were in your shoes I'd just keep on trying therapists and try your best to live carefree. I'm working on that myself by doing what half of America does and ignoring debt, otherwise I'm a nonstop ball of anxiety all day every day for years on end . Are you supporting a family? Or can you just crash on someone's couch at the end of the day if you need to? Yeah, that's the genuine problem. I wish I could do that. It's what friends tell me. By I feel so much loving anxiety with all of this. It's like I'm in this trap. I cannot do the job, because of the anxiety. But my anxiety also will not let me accept and live comfortably with the uncertainty of the disability. Regarding crashing on someone's couch, I'm unfortunately one of those people who has never made a lot of friends. I have a few friends who I consider close, but at the end of the day, I worry that I would be homeless. I know, I know, objectively that's probably the anxiety disorder talking, but it doesn't feel that way. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Aug 27, 2018 |
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Aug 27, 2018 01:02
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SlyFrog posted:More positive in what way? That they've managed to retain disability without it being really challenged by the insurer? Or that they have healed and gotten better and gone back to meaningful, decently paying work? The former . Actually, the volunteer work this person is doing is now a ton more meaningful than whatever biglaw drudgery existed. quote:Might I ask for a general idea of what his disability was? Was it mental health related stuff like mine, or some physical malady? Quite honestly, psychosomatic. Uncomfortable getting too into it but it's a lot closer to you than not. But my friends have all commented theyre shocked she's able to maintain disability for what appears to be anxiety manifesting in physical symptoms. I'm not kidding when I say I wish my wife could get on this somehow - yours is through work not SSDI right? quote:Yeah, that's the genuine problem. I wish I could do that. It's what friends tell me. By I feel so much loving anxiety with all of this. It's like I'm in this trap. I cannot do the job, because of the anxiety. But my anxiety also will not let me accept and live comfortably with the uncertainty of the disability. Yeah you're in the exact same boat as my wife. Huge anxiety about how going back to full time work will physically kill her, then anxiety about not being able to afford our mortgage because I can't find a real job You're welcome to come stay in my spare bedroom if you can put up with a toddler mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Aug 27, 2018 |
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Aug 27, 2018 02:05
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GET MONEY posted:Admiralty was considered but I figure it's too niche and also sometimes I get seasick. This is a joke account and nobody can convince me otherwise.
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Aug 27, 2018 02:38
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SlyFrog posted:I am still on leave from my firm - it has been a year and a few months now. I've tried some different medications during that time - nothing seems to have helped (again, I followed psychiatrist's orders, did not discontinue anything until told, etc.). At this point, the psychiatrist has essentially given up on medication. He’s talked vaguely about LSD or psilocybin having promising research, but I’m not exactly sure what to do about that, as it’s not exactly like it’s legal, and I’m not exactly the sort to just go find them even if I wanted to take the risk. My partner manages anxiety and chemical imbalance issues, and it took several different medical providers over several years to finally find a "good" prescription. And the good is in scare quotes because, as it is described to me, it doesn't actually get rid of the problem, it just allows her to compartmentalize and identify that she does not need to deal with the crushing, anxiety-laden mental loops that would otherwise consume her, thus lessening the impact on life. I say this not to downplay your own efforts to explore various alternatives, but (a) to suggest talking to another medical provider regarding whether they would recommend alternative prescriptions (your post suggests you've only talked to one doc for drugs), and (b) to give an example of what treatment success might look like, for a point of comparison about whether your methods are helping or not.
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Aug 27, 2018 02:53
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Honestly I would have let slyfrog move in with me so he could teach me warhammer. But then he liked Hillbilly Elegy.
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Aug 27, 2018 02:59
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Green Crayons posted:My partner manages anxiety and chemical imbalance issues, and it took several different medical providers over several years to finally find a "good" prescription. And the good is in scare quotes because, as it is described to me, it doesn't actually get rid of the problem, it just allows her to compartmentalize and identify that she does not need to deal with the crushing, anxiety-laden mental loops that would otherwise consume her, thus lessening the impact on life. Thanks, I appreciate it. To be clear, I've seen four psychiatrists over a little less than the last ten years. I am torn about agreeing to just say, "This is what it is going to be like, just manage it," because I want to be hopeful, and try to hope I can ultimately find contentedness and serenity, not just pain management. Believe me though, I have thought about it, because there are times where I almost think it might be easier to just surrender and say, "This is what I feel like, and is likely what I'm going to feel like, now just to manage it as best I can." I did not take anything you said as downplaying my own efforts to find help, don't worry. Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Honestly I would have let slyfrog move in with me so he could teach me warhammer. That's just cold dude. My therapist was actually the one who insisted I read it, because what Vance describes growing up in is similar to my background, and he thought it could help shed some light on some of my issues. Otherwise I never would have read it. My therapist is also a big, giant liberal academic, and he read the book and thought it was poignant. Why do you hate mental health treatment? Regardless HDD, I will love you always. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Aug 27, 2018 |
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Aug 27, 2018 03:26
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