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veni veni veni posted:The term "video game" is a meaningless holdover at this point. The only thing a game like Gone Home has in common with some E Sports game is that the same hardware can be used to experience it, and both are perfectly valid things to enjoy. You don't see anyone lumping Rampage in with Phantom Thread because they are both movies, but for some reason gamers think they get to be the ones to dictate what a game can and can't be, which is probably one of the biggest things that holds video games back as a medium. Luckily as independent development becomes more commonplace I think that is going to change/is changing. That's all I'm trying to say, there's a ton of people who essentially argue that titles like Gone Home shouldn't exist because it's not enough of a game, which is more some bizarre form of gate keeping than any legitimate criticism. The idea of videogames being hesitant to stop being "fun" for a moment during their runtime is a whole other discussion, they also have serious issues finding a way to properly present negative emotions in an interactive context.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:54
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Tetris is an art. US Navy Fighters is not. Next question.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:57
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Also, I hate that people still always use Gone Home and Ethan Carter as the example whenever they are looking to bash "walking simulators' there are much better games in the genre like Soma, Observer or What Remains of Edith Finch, which are all loving stellar and way better than either of the default examples (Gone Home was decent though. Ethan Carter was boring af)
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Aug 24, 2018 20:03
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veni veni veni posted:The term "video game" is a meaningless holdover at this point. So you agree there's a difference between actual GAMES with GAMEPLAY and non-games?
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Aug 24, 2018 20:33
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What is a art? A miserable little pile of secrets!
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Aug 24, 2018 20:44
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YagotmeIdidit posted:So you agree there's a difference between actual GAMES with GAMEPLAY and non-games? I agree there is a major distinction between the two, I don’t agree with the corny attitude that people tend to apply to games that don’t revolve around shooting or stabbing things.
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Aug 24, 2018 20:46
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veni veni veni posted:Also, I hate that people still always use Gone Home and Ethan Carter as the example whenever they are looking to bash "walking simulators' there are much better games in the genre like Soma, Observer or What Remains of Edith Finch, which are all loving stellar and way better than either of the default examples (Gone Home was decent though. Ethan Carter was boring af) do we agree that SHAUUUUUUUUUUUUN Heavy Rain was overwrought and ludicrous though and almost an indictment of an entire genre?
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Aug 24, 2018 20:48
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Heavy Rain was a good comedy game.
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Aug 24, 2018 20:56
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YagotmeIdidit posted:Are you joking? The very purpose of a game is to win. I still don't think that's something that inherently prevents video games from being an effective medium for storytelling or any other kind of expression, even setting aside games that sidestep lose conditions entirely. But let's look at games that are still very much capital-G Games that entirely lack the ability for the player to actually lose. And I'll ignore games like Dark Souls, where "you can die but you canonically resurrect" is built into the game's core fiction. One example is Pyre, the game that my avatar comes from. Pyre is a weird fusion of action-RPG, sports game, and visual novel where you play as a bunch of exiles in a metaphysical purgatory who compete in what is essentially magical fire basketball for a chance to go home. But there's no lose condition. If you lose a match, the story continues and changes to reflect the fact that you lost. It's still very much a game--the player is able to win or lose any individual match--but there's no Game Over screen, and there's even an ending for if you get all the way to the finish and never win a match. (It's not a very happy ending, but it's there.) For another example, Darkest Dungeon (by default) has no lose condition. Granted, it's also not a game that's trying to achieve a strong narrative, but it's certainly expressing themes and ideas--narrative isn't the only way a work can communicate something. But you can't get a Game Over in Darkest Dungeon unless you explicitly opt into one. Yes, you can lose all your heroes on a run, but you can always recruit and train up more. Unless you're playing on New Game+ or specifically enable a time limit, you can never actually lose. You just keep trying. But even looking beyond games that lack lose conditions, I don't think that the ability of a player to get a Game Over or fail on a segment means that a game can't be an effective medium for expressing themes, ideas, or narratives. Those things are still very possible. And if you give up on a game because you get frustrated and can't get past a part, is that really so different from, say, putting down Gravity's Rainbow because you can't follow the narrative, or Finnegan's Wake because you get lost in the words?
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Aug 24, 2018 21:01
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Sadly, no game has been art so far. Maybe in the future?
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Aug 24, 2018 21:05
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Yet more proof that Star Control 2 is the best game ever made, it implemented a loss condition into an adventure-RPG in 1992.
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Aug 24, 2018 21:06
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star control 2 is one of the best games of all time. all space rpgs owe an immense debt to it
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Aug 24, 2018 21:14
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it's so non-linear that there was a way to finish the game that isn't an exploit and wasn't foreseen by the original developers (although in the original retail game, a bug would have crashed the game at some point, because that path had never been playtested), and that's an incredibly impressive achievement considering all the different "legal" ways to finish the game (all accounted for and with unique recorded voice lines). it really needed an in-game note-taking feature because with all the lore and hints at times it felt like a goddamn detective game
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Aug 24, 2018 21:19
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sc2 sounds amazing and I have the ur quan masters but I can never get into it because I get totally scrubbed in the very first fight early on idk if it's my dosbox settings or i am just missing some commands or what but it is brutally difficult
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Aug 24, 2018 22:06
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steinrokkan posted:Sadly, no game has been art so far. Maybe in the future? Okami 
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Aug 24, 2018 22:14
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A. Beaverhausen posted:Okami Research indicates a concerning lack of art in this game, are you sure?
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Aug 24, 2018 22:19
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BioMe posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKIiUsbOO24&t=101s The concept that games can't be art because they're interactive is bullshit. Some artists even strive to produce interactivity in their creations. Even film tries to dabble with this, with stage shows (think Rocky Horror) and multiple different attempts at influencing the viewer's other senses (such as using scent or vibration). Harrow posted:I still don't think that's something that inherently prevents video games from being an effective medium for storytelling or any other kind of expression, even setting aside games that sidestep lose conditions entirely. But let's look at games that are still very much capital-G Games that entirely lack the ability for the player to actually lose. And I'll ignore games like Dark Souls, where "you can die but you canonically resurrect" is built into the game's core fiction. A distinction needs to be drawn between Losing and getting a Game Over. You said it yourself, you can lose matches in Pyre, and you can lose an entire party of people in Darkest Dungeon. This potential for loss is what creates tension, even if the loss doesn't end your experience and force you to start over.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:21
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Okay guys, maybe we can make a separate "are video games art" thread at this point and get this one back to a megathread about other topics
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Aug 24, 2018 22:34
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imagine typing all of those words about video games on purpose
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Aug 24, 2018 22:40
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veni veni veni posted:all the stuff this guy has posted recently You should probably read a book called Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man, by Marshall McLuhan. It was written before video games ever existed, but focuses very clearly on the separation of "medium" and "content", suggesting that the medium should be the focus of study when discussing forms of media. It's really famous in its field of interest, and it pretty directly aligns with what you've been posting.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:43
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I don't really care about the merits of games as art but I do want to say one thing, Dear Esther is a massive piece of poo poo. Gone Home, Tacoma, Firewatch, Stanley Parable, Edith Finch, Ethan Carter all did the walking simulator thing about a shitzillion times better. I feel like had Dear Esther not been a thing, 'walking simulator' would never have had the insulting connotation it did at one point. The narration is overwrought and lame, the world is bereft of interest, and it's just, the most nothing a game can be, in the worst way.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:49
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1redflag posted:Okay guys, maybe we can make a separate "are video games art" thread at this point and get this one back to a megathread about other topics I dunno, it does seem like having opinions on whether video games are art is pretty unpopular
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Aug 24, 2018 22:56
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I enjoyed firewatch but I was disappointed that the main character was not able to bang the lady in the other tower, the bad guy, or the fire. And some bears would have been been nice.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:57
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Sardonik posted:I don't really care about the merits of games as art but I do want to say one thing, Dear Esther is a massive piece of poo poo. Gone Home, Tacoma, Firewatch, Stanley Parable, Edith Finch, Ethan Carter all did the walking simulator thing about a shitzillion times better. I feel like had Dear Esther not been a thing, 'walking simulator' would never have had the insulting connotation it did at one point. The narration is overwrought and lame, the world is bereft of interest, and it's just, the most nothing a game can be, in the worst way. Only one of those I played was Stanley Parable and that was cool to go through a few times. There is nothing about that type of game that would make it more "art" than some other type of game.
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Aug 24, 2018 22:59
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food court bailiff posted:sc2 sounds amazing and I have the ur quan masters but I can never get into it because I get totally scrubbed in the very first fight early on the pink ship with the flamethrower? it's a bitch but not that hard. your ship has poo poo acceleration, like seriously the worst in the entire game, but a powerful, homing main weapon, so just spam those nuclear missiles as long as you have charge in your battery. if the enemy ship shoots them down with the flamethrower, just fire at a slight angle so they'll hit from the sides. if the enemy gets close though, you're loving dead. if you really suck at combat, try the autopilot (iirc the setting is named "robot") alternatively take the secret path I mentioned and skip earth altogether (lol don't actually do this as it makes the game extremely hard) or, land on pluto and recruit Fwiffo, at the cost of some of your flagship's crew. spathi ships are fast and have a rear-firing homing torpedo as their secondary fire, they're not very powerful but I always found them far less frustrating than human ships or, travel to the bottom left of the map, speak with the pkunk and see if you can get them to donate four of their ships to your fleet. I forget what are your options for getting fuel while in hyperspace though, maybe you can trade minerals with the melnorme, idk. then enable the autopilot, sit back and enjoy the little blue blur obliterate the ilwrath ship. plus, if a pkunk ship is destroyed, there's a 50-50 chance that it will resurrect with a full crew e: dosbox? aren't you using a native port? hackbunny fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 23:43
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Is maxing out a video card for long periods a bad thing? I have a GTX 970 and it can usually run everything I've thrown at it at high settings with little issue, but some newer graphics heavy games make the fans on it go full tilt and it becomes quite loud. On one hand I feel like this is too hard on the card, but then again the games never freeze or crash so one would think that the video card would be engineered for this sort of thing.
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Aug 26, 2018 22:29
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Vakal posted:Is maxing out a video card for long periods a bad thing? I have had a 970 for the past couple of years. Are you using MSI Afterburner or similar to manage it? That'll let you know how hard its working and how hot it's getting. You can also set up your own fan profiles and do some overclocking if you want- mine is often run a bit above stock with no issues. These cards are made to run optimally at around 60°C, your fans will automatically speed up and slow down to try and hold it at this temp. Its also worth bearing in mind general cooling inside your case. Mine is normally around 20° inside, about 24° if I've been caning it all afternoon, though during the heatwave last month it was normally over 30 inside, but no problems.
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Aug 26, 2018 22:41
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Vakal posted:Is maxing out a video card for long periods a bad thing? A fan shouldn't get loud, you probably should get a vacuum and clean dust from the openings. Also, check the temperature, if it isn't alarmingly high, you have nothing to worry about. If noise persists after cleaning, you may have an issue; otherwise, a GPU with fans that run on good bearings should last you indefinitely.
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Aug 26, 2018 23:02
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Ok, I'll get a temperature monitor software and see what the card is running at. I'd say about 90% of games run whisper quiet, but the odd one just makes the card go nuts. The most notable that comes to mind is The Forest which is an ok looking game graphics wise, but I have a feeling it may not be the most optimized thing.
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Aug 26, 2018 23:09
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Please don't vacuum inside computers, it can cause static electricity which risks damage to components and the vacuum WILL break fans. A lot of games just seem to be extremely bad for heat. I've heard of games where the devs didn't bother to put in fps limits in places like the main menu and the card will heat like crazy trying to render at 10000 frames per seconds (shouldn't the drivers prevent that?). Poil fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 23:09
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Poil posted:Please don't vacuum inside computers, it can cause static electricity which risks damage to components and the vacuum WILL break fans. I've been using a vacuum attachment on PC parts (unplugged) for years with no ill effect. Also you can easily ground the vacuum and the PC if you are worried about this.
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Aug 26, 2018 23:15
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gently caress all you nerds. I actually beat nethack. I am a gaming god
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Aug 26, 2018 23:21
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Vakal posted:Is maxing out a video card for long periods a bad thing? a card running hot all the time technically does have a shorter lifetime than one that runs cool, but you're not going to notice unless you're trying to use the same GPU a decade from now so it shouldn't matter
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Aug 26, 2018 23:26
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food court bailiff posted:imagine typing all of those words about video games on purpose Imagine doing it by accident Like, that'd be loving crazy weird
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Aug 27, 2018 00:10
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oh dope posted:Imagine doing it by accident lol
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Aug 27, 2018 00:11
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Please keep your GPU within the safe temperature band so you can ensure optimal art output. Overheating your card means less art being created.
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Aug 27, 2018 00:12
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I know it's beating a dead horse at this point, but I really feel like super hexagon is art. For non art related bad opinions: the new God of War is way way worse than the old style ones. It tries to have its 'dark souls esque' style and eat it's GoW heritage too. Massively to the detriment of both games it's trying to be. !Klams fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Aug 27, 2018 |
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Aug 27, 2018 00:13
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I never played Mass Effect but the fact that the main character is a short haired man named "Shephard" puts me off to the game. Off the top of my head I can think of like 3 other leader types with that name from fiction, it's the most generic rear end Bioware rear end choice of name.
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Aug 27, 2018 00:15
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!Klams posted:I know it's beating a dead horse at this point, but I really feel like super hexagon is art. What the gently caress? how are you so wrong about everything?
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Aug 27, 2018 00:18
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Shepard always looked like some WB show reject to me which I always found off putting. Just so mid 2000's blandly handsome like the guy from Prison Break or something. There's something so sterile and boring about the entire look of ME and Bioware games in general to me. The people, the environments, everything. Just not fun to look at at all.
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Aug 27, 2018 00:20
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