Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Nessus posted:

By every species do you mean all the portrait categories? I thought it's kind of a strength of the game, if perhaps not a deliberate one, that the appearance of a species is absolutely independent of its ethical or moral virtues. Those cute snuggly shy flowers can be genocidal purifiers, those jagged-tooth fungus monsters can be peaceful federation-builders.

Oh, no, I mean when you design a species. And computer-designed ones would have a random predisposition, matching to one of their governing ethics.

# ? Aug 29, 2018 10:13

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:12

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Strudel Man posted:

Oh, no, I mean when you design a species. And computer-designed ones would have a random predisposition, matching to one of their governing ethics.

So like you can hard code your species as being fundamentally aligned with whatever depressing virtue you feel like burning into the genetic nature of humanity?

# ? Aug 29, 2018 10:18

Davincie: Jul 7, 2008

it would be nice if with these new backgrounds we could colonize moons for some extra living space on the planets

# ? Aug 29, 2018 10:19

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Nessus posted:

So like you can hard code your species as being fundamentally aligned with whatever depressing virtue you feel like burning into the genetic nature of humanity?

Well, you're phrasing that in a weird way, but yes? I think?

It sort of exists already, in that certain species traits will push their pops towards certain ethics. Strong for militarism, weak for pacifism, natural [scientist] for materialism, decadent for authoritarianism...but not every ethic has a trait.

Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Aug 29, 2018

# ? Aug 29, 2018 10:21

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Baronjutter posted:

I think a big weakness in the game is that it's extreme flexibility with race design also means it's hard to get those really interesting specifics. For example if you could only play as humans, or "human" was a detailed category of species like robots and hive it could be packed full of more human-centric mechanics and fluff because we know how human biology and psychology and politics work. But we have to keep things generic, flexible. This ability to make custom races is also a huge strength of the game, but it leads to what I call "cloud syndrome" in any game with random/procedural content. Sure, every cloud is technically unique, but once you've seen a few of each type you've kinda seen them all and the infinite variety ends up boiling down to just a handful of notable types.

I'm glad the general species types in Stellaris have been getting fleshed out more, I hope they do more though for the more generic "person" species though where you can really flesh out their society and biology a little more beyond some generic modifiers and lets you define how your internal politics and economy works in more detail. Are my aliens just trek style "people but with a different culture" or are there some real fundamental differences in our brains and thus our societies and outlooks and thus interactions? Things beyond flexible ethos. A species that grew up on a planet with no real concept of predators and find it physiologically nearly impossible to have desires that would lead to militarism. Different evolution, different brains, different weights on ethos, optionally. Make species potentially less generic and flexible. What does your pacifist empire do after conquering a species of brutal apex predators who a physically unable of adopting the concept of pacifism and have a strong biological weight towards militarist? What does your spiritualist empire do with its vassal of "flying computer" bird people who's brains and thus society has no concept of spiritualism?

We can have a huge variety of biology in the game, but outside of hives and robots all species have the same psychology, seemingly the exact same brains all equally open to any sort of ethos. I'm not saying make all aliens have hard-wired ethos biases, but the option to play as or encounter aliens that do could really help make species memorable and unique. Sometimes you can't just change a species core psychology with propaganda and faction suppression.

They tried this by locking a lot of game content behind your current ethics, but it fell apart because ethics are too broad and open to interpretation to lock too much stuff behind. So

Splicer posted:

Is it "talk about getting more of the really funky civics and putting them in their own section" time yet?

# ? Aug 29, 2018 10:44

VideoGames: Aug 18, 2003

Have seen a report that is a few days old, but would just like to remind people not to post about posters. If you dislike someone who is discussing stuff rather than the content of what they are discussing, then please put it to one side and continue to talk about whatever you wish relating to the game.

If you dislike them and can refute the things they are saying, then by all means do this instead!

We can be better than this, my friends

Thank you all!

# ? Aug 29, 2018 14:27

TalonDemonKing: May 4, 2011

Does anyone have any code lying about for creating a ringworld? I've been banging my head against this ringworld start, and although I can get the civic in place (Which is basically a copy/paste of life-seeded); the ringworld bit seems to be arcane or nearly impossible.

# ? Aug 29, 2018 22:45

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

TalonDemonKing posted:

Does anyone have any code lying about for creating a ringworld? I've been banging my head against this ringworld start, and although I can get the civic in place (Which is basically a copy/paste of life-seeded); the ringworld bit seems to be arcane or nearly impossible.

common\solar_system_initializers\special_system_initializers has code for creating the Sanctuary system. There's a lot in it that would be irrelevant to you, but it could still be a good guideline.

# ? Aug 29, 2018 22:51

Log082: Nov 8, 2008

TalonDemonKing posted:

Does anyone have any code lying about for creating a ringworld? I've been banging my head against this ringworld start, and although I can get the civic in place (Which is basically a copy/paste of life-seeded); the ringworld bit seems to be arcane or nearly impossible.

Make sure to post in the thread if you get this working, a ringworld start would be right up my alley.

# ? Aug 29, 2018 22:59

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

I have a ringworld refugee's civic from one of my mods, but I run like 50 so I'll have to figure out which one it is.

# ? Aug 29, 2018 23:26

Crazycryodude: Aug 15, 2015; Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?

I used to play with a ringworld start mod way back when like 5 or 6 major updates ago. IIRC they did it by making it a unique system you could select like Sol or Deneb.

# ? Aug 29, 2018 23:38

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Found it, this mod here has a ringworld start that places a ruined ringworld in your starting system.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1394941415

# ? Aug 29, 2018 23:53

Azuth0667: Sep 20, 2011; By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

We need a protist species pack.

# ? Aug 29, 2018 23:53

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Only if it's balanced out by some antitists.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 00:04

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

planet stability sounds exactly like the kind of internal politics system the game could use to make empire management more interesting.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 06:04

Eiba: Jul 26, 2007

TalonDemonKing posted:

Does anyone have any code lying about for creating a ringworld? I've been banging my head against this ringworld start, and although I can get the civic in place (Which is basically a copy/paste of life-seeded); the ringworld bit seems to be arcane or nearly impossible.

I don't know if this is the kind of mod you're describing, but I just realized I really want life seeded to actually be set on a ruined ringworld. So still a size 25 perfect habitability planet, but if your premise is you were somehow influenced by ancient powerful aliens you might as well go big.

What mods I've seen mess around with repairing ringworlds or being better at them in some way and I'm not into that at all. I just want vanilla life seeded with a huge space habitat rather than a Gaia world.

Gaia worlds are kind of weird and awkward to me, with regards to immersion, and while I like the gameplay implications of life seeded, I'm not a fan of having a homeworld like that. I don't really know what Gaia worlds are supposed to represent. I guess ring worlds are also pretty absurd and silly, both for the stupid scale and the weird part where it doesn't actually orbit the star, but I can pretend that in Stellaris they're really just Culture style Orbitals and ignore the graphics.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 06:19

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Eiba posted:

I don't know if this is the kind of mod you're describing, but I just realized I really want life seeded to actually be set on a ruined ringworld. So still a size 25 perfect habitability planet, but if your premise is you were somehow influenced by ancient powerful aliens you might as well go big.

What mods I've seen mess around with repairing ringworlds or being better at them in some way and I'm not into that at all. I just want vanilla life seeded with a huge space habitat rather than a Gaia world.

Gaia worlds are kind of weird and awkward to me, with regards to immersion, and while I like the gameplay implications of life seeded, I'm not a fan of having a homeworld like that. I don't really know what Gaia worlds are supposed to represent. I guess ring worlds are also pretty absurd and silly, both for the stupid scale and the weird part where it doesn't actually orbit the star, but I can pretend that in Stellaris they're really just Culture style Orbitals and ignore the graphics.

A ringworld could be kept stable through Bussard ramjets used as attitude control jets. It would be straightforward - not simple or easy, but straightforward - to do.

I agree that a semi-ruined Ringworld or a mega-station would be better. In fact I want a habitat start in general, even if I suppose there are balance issues involved in an all-hab species.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 07:02

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Nessus posted:

A ringworld could be kept stable through Bussard ramjets used as attitude control jets. It would be straightforward - not simple or easy, but straightforward - to do.

I agree that a semi-ruined Ringworld or a mega-station would be better. In fact I want a habitat start in general, even if I suppose there are balance issues involved in an all-hab species.

But enough about planetary stability :v:

I seem to recall reading that a true ringworld would require a material stronger than natural molecular bonds can provide.

Eiba posted:

I don't know if this is the kind of mod you're describing, but I just realized I really want life seeded to actually be set on a ruined ringworld. So still a size 25 perfect habitability planet, but if your premise is you were somehow influenced by ancient powerful aliens you might as well go big.

What mods I've seen mess around with repairing ringworlds or being better at them in some way and I'm not into that at all. I just want vanilla life seeded with a huge space habitat rather than a Gaia world.

It's a shame you can't have multiple empires in one system anymore, having a start where you occupy one half of a ringworld and someone else evolved to occupy the other would be boss.

Could do a Niven Ringworld Start by giving you a number of additional pops of several randomly generated species and also 20-30 pre-sapients, but practically no minerals.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 08:54

Taear: Nov 26, 2004; Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

Davincie posted:

it would be nice if with these new backgrounds we could colonize moons for some extra living space on the planets

That would be amazing! I think of Deepness in the Sky and the megopolis moons provided for by the more farm-heavy planet.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 09:20

canepazzo: May 29, 2006

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1035088536557498368?s=19

Can't wait to see lassez faire in Stellaris :allears:

Also: dietary balance?

canepazzo fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Aug 30, 2018

# ? Aug 30, 2018 10:01

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Splicer posted:

But enough about planetary stability

I seem to recall reading that a true ringworld would require a material stronger than natural molecular bonds can provide.

The scrith material that Niven hypothesized was a significant fraction of the strength of interatomic bonds, I think, but I recall all his critique from MIT students was about the orbital instability. I assume that college students eager to "own" a SF writer would have brought it up if the material was absolutely impossible, in the sense that it had attributes that violated physical law, rather than merely extremely implausible.

To me the biggest argument for the ringworlds in Stellaris not being proper Niven-esque ringworlds is that a real ringworld would not just have 4 25 pop spaces, or 8, or 20. It would have effectively unlimited population space. Habitats and ringworlds have to be as nasty as they are to build or else people would eventually abandon planets en masse (other than to exploit unique bonuses).

# ? Aug 30, 2018 10:33

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Nessus posted:

The scrith material that Niven hypothesized was a significant fraction of the strength of interatomic bonds, I think, but I recall all his critique from MIT students was about the orbital instability. I assume that college students eager to "own" a SF writer would have brought it up if the material was absolutely impossible, in the sense that it had attributes that violated physical law, rather than merely extremely implausible.

To me the biggest argument for the ringworlds in Stellaris not being proper Niven-esque ringworlds is that a real ringworld would not just have 4 25 pop spaces, or 8, or 20. It would have effectively unlimited population space. Habitats and ringworlds have to be as nasty as they are to build or else people would eventually abandon planets en masse (other than to exploit unique bonuses).

Given the changes to planets I could see getting effectively unlimited population ringworlds though. I mean, science nexus is never worry about science again, Dyson sphere is (well, should be) never worry about energy again, the sensor array is never worry about fog of war again, so "never worry about population space again" works for ringworlds. Also, it's a big fat target. Just remove straight mineral production from them (energy -> matter generator could be a problem though)

Making something like scrith would require manipulating the strong nuclear force, which falls under "Well we can't say it's /impossible/."* MIT nerds want to laugh at your engineering failures, not hypothesise a potential upper limit on humanity's ultimate ability to manipulate universal constants. The latter would make them sad.

*according to google I am not a theoretical physicist

e: that was the wrong word

Splicer fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Aug 30, 2018

# ? Aug 30, 2018 10:57

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Nessus posted:

The scrith material that Niven hypothesized was a significant fraction of the strength of interatomic bonds, I think, but I recall all his critique from MIT students was about the orbital instability. I assume that college students eager to "own" a SF writer would have brought it up if the material was absolutely impossible, in the sense that it had attributes that violated physical law, rather than merely extremely implausible.

To me the biggest argument for the ringworlds in Stellaris not being proper Niven-esque ringworlds is that a real ringworld would not just have 4 25 pop spaces, or 8, or 20. It would have effectively unlimited population space. Habitats and ringworlds have to be as nasty as they are to build or else people would eventually abandon planets en masse (other than to exploit unique bonuses).

I'm all for making abandoning planets for megastructures it's own ascension path. Who needs robot bodies or climate gene-mods when you can just live in a perfect, endless world?

# ? Aug 30, 2018 10:58

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

NewMars posted:

I'm all for making abandoning planets for megastructures it's own ascension path. Who needs robot bodies or climate gene-mods when you can just live in a perfect, endless world?

Yeah, some kind of megastructural ascension path would be pretty good. I should be able to declare my homeworld an empty sacred Gaia planet, as Deikum intended.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 11:21

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Wiz type faster

# ? Aug 30, 2018 11:25

Anno: May 10, 2017; I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

Today�s dev diary: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-123-planetary-rework-part-3-of-4.1116917/

# ? Aug 30, 2018 12:11

Tythas: Oct 3, 2013; Never felt at home in reality
Always hiding behind avatars

Dev diary is up https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-123-planetary-rework-part-3-of-4.1116917/

quote:

Crime
Something else that we wanted to achieve with the new system was to create the potential for social and political unrest without necessarily having it take the form of a direct penalty or revolt, especially on heavily populated worlds. Crime is a value generated by all virtually all Pops with free will, and can vary between 0 and 100% on a planet. Happy Pops produce less crime, while unhappy Pops produce more crime, but only Pops at a perfect 100% happiness produce no crime at all. Crime has no actual direct penalty, but instead may result in events such as smuggler rings or organized crime taking root on the planet. These events and conditions are generally detrimental, but may also open up certain benficial opportunities and decisions that would not be available on a planet with perfect law and order. Nonetheless, a very high level of Crime is generally something to be avoided, as crime can lower stability and also result in Pops leaving their ordinary jobs and moving into special Crime jobs that appear on the planet and which take resources away from your empire rather than producing them. To combat Crime, you can build buildings such as Precinct Districts that create crime-suppressing Enforcer jobs. In general, empires that rely on repression and inequality to keep their Pops in line will need to employ more Enforcers, but there will also be other ways to manage Crime, possibly including ways to integrate the criminal enterprises as a fixture in your society (the exact details on this is still very much something that's a work in progress).

# ? Aug 30, 2018 12:11

canepazzo: May 29, 2006

This all looks so amazing!

Although the planetary interaction seems to become a bit (a lot) more involved and less fire and forget till it's time to upgrade; lots of new information too.

Any chance we can get a ledger for Stellaris? It's the one thing I really miss the most from the other Paradox games.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 12:16

NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Space crimes look to be an amazing time. I hope it's possible to become a space crime cartel as a government type. Or at least make them a productive part of your empire, as hinted by that bit at the end there.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 12:24

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

Crime is gonna be sooooo good for stuff to do doing combat downtime.

That bit about crime giving potential benefits gives me funny shivers.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 12:37

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Tythas posted:

Dev diary is up https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-123-planetary-rework-part-3-of-4.1116917/

Oh my god this is everything I wanted and more. Crime jobs :allears:

so tactile

# ? Aug 30, 2018 12:42

Gyshall: Feb 24, 2009; Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.

Oh man. Need this update pronto

# ? Aug 30, 2018 13:04

StealthArcher: Jan 10, 2010

Splicer posted:

Oh my god this is everything I wanted and more. Crime jobs so tactile

Sims 5: Crime Jobs in Space

# ? Aug 30, 2018 14:55

DrSunshine: Mar 23, 2009; Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

Can't wait to put synth and / or cyborg pops in enforcer jobs. :allears:

# ? Aug 30, 2018 14:56

isndl: May 2, 2012; I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

DrSunshine posted:

Can't wait to put synth and / or cyborg pops in enforcer jobs.

Can't wait to build a robot crime empire!

# ? Aug 30, 2018 15:03

Aethernet: Jan 28, 2009; This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!; Grimey Drawer

For some reason, crime as described really reminds me of luck scales in Dominions - i.e. event-driven rather than a modifier. I hope running a smuggling network gets small bits of luxuries every so often, with a risk of being attacked by a pissed off crimelord...

# ? Aug 30, 2018 15:18

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Please let me be Emperor Manafort of the MyCrimes.xls star nation, a criminal empire that commits crimes at a rate that triples every second.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 15:29

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

I want Barbaric Despoilers to benefit from crime. Bandit Kingdoms thank you

# ? Aug 30, 2018 15:31

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

Rhjamiz posted:

I want Barbaric Despoilers to benefit from crime. Bandit Kingdoms thank you

Also more civic-based empire types. Flavour is fun!

# ? Aug 30, 2018 15:32

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# ? May 25, 2024 18:12

pixaal: Jan 8, 2004; All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.

Having a lot of criminal experience could lead to a species that is really good at espionage. Secretly starting a revolution for independence in an "allied" neighbor and slowly assimilate their planets without firing a shot.

# ? Aug 30, 2018 15:48

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