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content
Feb 13, 2014

Scoss posted:

My personal theory is basically that creativity is sort of inseparable from anything you do in art, so it doesn't make sense to think about creativity and process as separate concepts. The corollary there is that if you have problems with creativity, what you really have is a problem with process execution-- and it is very possible to refine and train those skills. To boil it down, I think people become more artistically creative in direct proportion to their draftsmanship skills and understanding of nature.

Let's imagine for the sake of demonstration that you wanted to draw monsters. Classically, monsters are approached as an exercise principally of animal anatomy. That is to say, when you are imagining and designing a creature, what you are really doing is designing an animal that doesn't exist. If you want to draw even imaginary animals with any kind of believability or authority, it is necessary to have a fundamental understanding of how real animals are put together. To achieve that understanding, you have to spend time studying anatomy almost as if you were a Veterinarian or Zoologist. In concrete terms, that means something like assembling a hoard of reference material on animal skeletons, animal musculature, reference that shows off the surface materials and features of their exterior, potentially even videos or trips to a Zoo to better understand how they move and behave. For each of these kinds of reference you would carefully analyze, attempt to copy in a sketchbook or something while thinking very intently about how your subject fits together structurally, compare your copy back to the genuine article and try to assess where you made mistakes or still have insufficient understanding, and then repeat the cycle again with more analysis and copy and self-assessment, over and over and over.

If you were to do this kind of study as a daily regimen for months, you would achieve some basic proficiency in understanding what's going on inside of most animals. You would begin to see the structural similarities between different animals that are the fingerprint of evolution, and you would realize surprising things like, "fundamentally, Cats are made of basically the same parts as People". The more you fill up your memory banks with how nature works, the more inevitable it is that those ideas will swirl around and intermingle and start drawing their own connections in your imagination. What if I took the head and wings of an Eagle and synthesized it with the hindquarters of a Lion? Now you're designing creatures.

All of this knowledge also has to exist alongside a sort of fundamental competence with drawing and representing volume in 2D that people generally call "fundamentals". It's not much use to be an expert anatomist if you cannot draw a box or ellipse in perspective, or struggle with understanding light and value. There are mountains of resources online dedicated to teaching art fundamentals, which is why I have not focused on them overmuch here, but they are the other critical half of the puzzle. To briefly summarize my thoughts on learning fundamentals, I think it all really comes down to mastering observational work and learning how to truly "see" and not just "look". There is a good reason that traditional art education has for hundreds of years highly emphasized observational study and working from life. It will train your brain for more ambitious (and ultimately "creative") artistic challenges in the same way that an athlete prepares their body in a gym.

When I see people describe themselves as "pretty good" at observational drawing, or really any artistic skill set, more often than not it sets off alarm bells in my head. The Greek philosophers and their notions about "the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know" come inescapably to mind. I hope you will receive this with the warm and constructive intent with which it is offered, but from looking over the work you've posted in this thread, I think you still have quite a lot to learn about observation. Observational drawing and painting is another subject which the internet has no shortage of information about how to train, but if I were to proffer up a single suggestion for study, I would say that you should find a very good piece of photo reference, with good descriptive lighting that has both form and cast shadows, (or set up your own actual still life, always the best option if possible) and spend seriously 10+ hours on making a single study of it. Establish the structure of the drawing very carefully and accurately at the very beginning before moving on to value. Do it in whatever grayscale medium you're most comfortable with. I find that doing these kinds of long-form studies tends to effectively calibrate people about what it really means to observe carefully and how much focused intent it takes to truly nail something accurately, in a way that is impossible to ever really see if you're only ever doing 30 minutes sketches or if 2 hours seems like a long time. When it's finished, show it to other artists and ask them to help you see mistakes that you couldn't see on your own, stand back and critically assess it, and try to do better on the next one.

In conclusion, drawing from imagination is very hard, but you can nibble at it over time.

Great post. I'm pretty much on the opposite end of the op. I almost never drew from reference; always from imagination, and even though I'm a competent cartoonist, I struggled with the fundamentals for years. I always thought it was strange that I did poorly in art classes, despite being a decent artist, but years later, I realized that the parts of art that were more grounded in reality were boring, and I just didn't like dealing with them. I'm glad I started making myself care about the fundamentals eventually (3D space was my biggest blind spot), but I wish I had just paid attention and cared in school.

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Radio du Cambodge
Dec 3, 2007

I already wrote a similar post to this last night but I must have closed the browser window by accident

Scoss posted:

Otherwise, you end up following shape contours like a trail from anatomical landmark to landmark, desperately hoping you don't get lost along the way.

Yeah that describes me perfectly. I guess my ideal scenario would be "following shape contours from landmark to landmark and never getting lost along the way because of an intuitive sense of balance and harmony of the body" but maybe the only realistic way to get there is through intensive anatomy and box figures and other technical practice. Not sure I have the patience for it though and in any case:

smallmouth posted:

I love your way of drawing--develop that. There's more than enough figure artists that draw "correctly" or "academically," and not nearly enough that draw emotionally.

I feel this too. Do I actually like looking at portraits by that dude Prokopenko? Not really. I don't think they are totally mutually exclusive but I am worried that I will lose some of the poetry and joy that makes me really love drawing the human body if I delve too deep into technical construction. Maybe I can dip my toes into it, get some value from those exercises, and then not worry too much about it. I dunno.

Propitious Jerk
Sep 13, 2010

d3c0y2 posted:

When you where drawing this piece, did you keep an idea of where this reflected light was coming from? Or do you keep it more as an idea of ambient reflected light and just go with what feels right?

For that particular drawing I just winged the reflected light, If I was drawing a subject in an environment I would take more care to make sure that reflected light is actually being reflected off of something (the ground, nearby objects or secondary light sources). Since I basically just drew a head floating in an empty void I just chose to have the bounce light come from the opposite direction of my main light source. This isn't always correct, just an easy shorthand to rendering something that, at first glance, has volume.


Radio du Cambodge posted:

I feel this too. Do I actually like looking at portraits by that dude Prokopenko? Not really. I don't think they are totally mutually exclusive but I am worried that I will lose some of the poetry and joy that makes me really love drawing the human body if I delve too deep into technical construction. Maybe I can dip my toes into it, get some value from those exercises, and then not worry too much about it. I dunno.

This is a good outlook to have, especially if you are primarily drawing for fun or as a form of self-expression, and applies (I assume) to most of the people posting in this thread, myself included. It is possible to be an excellent artist, illustrator or designer without having a master's grasp of human anatomy. One should have decent knowledge of the fundamentals and be able to effectively put them into practice when the need arises, but life is too short to spend it all drawing what you don't want to draw.

Scoss
Aug 17, 2015
Far be it from me to tell anyone how to enjoy their art. If you are just in it for personal satisfaction and are happy with what you're doing, then rock on.

For anyone who feels stuck, or like they're spinning their wheels while they have aspirations to be better, I think traditional academic fundamentals are probably the best path out of the dark woods. It's up to everyone to decide for themselves if the juice is worth the squeeze.

Personally, I am okay with with a student-for-life mindset about art. I know I will be learning anatomy forever, because ultimately I love illustration and drawing characters, and it's important to me to be able to convey any idea in a believable way. I think the figure is just a very rich vein to mine in general when it comes to learning-- if you can master drawing something as difficult as the human figure, you will be well prepared to take on basically any subject.

Anyway, I did some more short studies. Mixed success. More stiff than the ref, will have to keep that in mind in the future.



Been a while since I painted on a full figure and I wanted to stretch my rendering legs a bit after so much drawing, so I puttered around one of the refs for a few hours. Difficult perspective on the head, so the face is a bit weird but I was mostly invested in the torso, oh well.

Scoss fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Aug 30, 2018

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Looking good, loving those defined muscles! How long are you spending on those quick studies?

my buddy Superfly
Feb 28, 2011

.............been drawing.... dogs n' cats n' stuff.................






Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.
Clapping Larry

Hehey, getting nice linework all up in this .. female dog?
No but seriously, I know I'm linework-biased but even those simple hatch-shadows do bring out so much more 3dness to the doggies.


I'm working on some christmas cards. It's never too early, but it IS hard to get in the mood.



smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009


exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.


lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Finally finished this arsehole

Learnt a lot about texturing with pen. Hand hurts.

Scoss
Aug 17, 2015

lofi posted:

Looking good, loving those defined muscles! How long are you spending on those quick studies?

Thanks! Probably about 15-25 minutes per figure there.

Another enviro study



Wanted to doodle something from imagination since I've been doing a lot of ref study

my buddy Superfly
Feb 28, 2011

Sharpest Crayon posted:

Hehey, getting nice linework all up in this .. female dog?
No but seriously, I know I'm linework-biased but even those simple hatch-shadows do bring out so much more 3dness to the doggies.


I'm working on some christmas cards. It's never too early, but it IS hard to get in the mood.





Thanks! I've been feeling more confident about my lineart recently so I appreciate hearing that! Also it's some dog from Fate Go I think? My friend told me to draw it. Anyway, here is more dog.


Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:
my version of practicing fundamentals is actually doing sketches



this one is based entirely on a real location, however it's done from memory and looks very different

Frown Town
Sep 10, 2009

does not even lift
SWAG SWAG SWAG YOLO
insomnia garbage

Fruity20
Jul 28, 2018

Do you believe in magic, Tenno?

Frown Town posted:

insomnia garbage



that pic above me is beautiful.


lofi
Apr 2, 2018





Golden lab at open mic night :3:

exmarx
Feb 18, 2012


The experience over the years
of nothing getting better
only worse.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018





Copying other people's styles is hard.

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.
Clapping Larry
Him chonk.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

for the guy who asked earlier this is a work in progress of about 4 hours of work based on this sketch, but i'm specifically putting a lot of detail into it

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




Not a guy, but ta!


Omg, that is the exact shape of a dog I saw yesterday. I was going to sketch him, but didn't think I could make it look remotely believable. Poor goondog.

Pentaro
May 5, 2013


Sketchin in natural history museums is great :skeltal:

my buddy Superfly
Feb 28, 2011

hello it is time of dog but also the time for cat is now



Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
I'm a simple creature and I like Spock so I doodled him

my buddy Superfly
Feb 28, 2011

https://twitter.com/rainbowfission/status/1036528029315616768
https://twitter.com/rainbowfission/status/1036706110143713281

d3c0y2
Sep 29, 2009

Pick posted:

I'm a simple creature and I like Spock so I doodled him



How do you get this effect? I'm not even sure the word i am looking for to describe it, but I love how the colours seem almost iridescent.

lofi
Apr 2, 2018





:wiggle:

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

d3c0y2 posted:

How do you get this effect? I'm not even sure the word i am looking for to describe it, but I love how the colours seem almost iridescent.

Sketch is in blue, then one layer set to Linear Burn with colors on it, and another set to Add (Glow) with different colors on it. Done in ClipStudio. Another way you can try it with a completely different effect is to lay down some general gradients and then use brushes with really busted pressure settings on a Soft Light layer above that, and then go all mad randy with a Vivid Light layer above that.

My advice is, at least for practice every once in a while, work at stupidly high color saturation, and use a bunch of colors, an obnoxious excess. I think most of us are trained not to, probably due to high color saturation having been out of vogue from like 2004-2017.

Pick fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Sep 4, 2018

the_lion
Jun 8, 2010

On the hunt for prey... :D

Frown Town
Sep 10, 2009

does not even lift
SWAG SWAG SWAG YOLO

o i love that chonky boi





doing some procreate stuff, love the video replay feature (click second image and it should open up a link that works? mp4 file)
life drawing, about.. 20 minutes, i was a little tipsy/high. I love this figure drawing group so much.

Frown Town fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Sep 4, 2018

lofi
Apr 2, 2018




That is crazy-cool - more please! I had a horrible life-drawing session, the woman next to me was super nervous, it was her first time arting in like 15 years, so cool that she was doing it, but she kept going on and on, and it put me on edge. Took forever to relax into it, only got two pics worth a drat.


I guess one of those days where I have to remember that me from a decade ago would have murdered to draw pics like that.

sinc
Jul 6, 2008
My doodling sort of died down a few months ago, I guess I started taking it slightly too seriously and obsessing about learning things the right way and doing boring exercises, which is exactly the the kind of thing that I had set out to avoid in this relaxing little side hobby.

Slowly getting the hang of the basics again after warming up for a couple of days, and all the same old errors too I suppose...

my buddy Superfly
Feb 28, 2011

https://twitter.com/rainbowfission/status/1037416146021089282
https://twitter.com/rainbowfission/status/1037429449183125508

lofi
Apr 2, 2018






Old dudes are really easy to draw, their faces are all hosed up anyway! Much better than yesterday's efforts, I think the ability to rub lines out just confuses my poor brain.

lofi fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Sep 5, 2018

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.
Clapping Larry
Nosecat, King of the fishers!

Frown Town
Sep 10, 2009

does not even lift
SWAG SWAG SWAG YOLO


tigertaur and fox friend
50 min sketch, who needs hands?

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'


First pull of my first landscape block print. Need to push the highlights and do something with the clouds, but I’m generally happy with it.

KittenofDoom
Apr 15, 2003

Me posting IRL
Chonky Boi stands like people!

Only registered members can see post attachments!

smallmouth
Oct 1, 2009

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Frown Town
Sep 10, 2009

does not even lift
SWAG SWAG SWAG YOLO

i dig it, oils?



some prismacolor/copic/microns on top of a figure drawing sketch

rip charlie, my ghost cat.

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