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Oh for gently caress's sake. Gaiman isn't some pinnacle, but he's not so bad that he deserves the elitist egging he's being subjected to either. I always thought of him as a gateway to better stuff. But people have a wide range of expectations, needs, and wants from their art. Kind of lovely to act arch and superior for the choices someone makes in that regard. I just finished The Cabin at the End of the World by Paul Tremblay. Having read the rest of his horror output, I was excited but it fell flat for me. It's horror about an impending apocalypse, plus it tries to flip home invasion tropes around a little, and the premise on its face was pretty cool. A gay couple and their young daughter are on vacation at a remote lakeside cabin when four uniformed strangers show up, force their way into the house, and claim to have seen an impending apocalypse. The only way to avert it, they say, is if one of our protagonists is willingly sacrificed. The book waffles between rationality and piety. Each of the dads represents a stance. And that's half my problem with it. Everything falls too neatly into boxes and is too easily polarized. As a thriller concept, it's cool. But honestly the plot spins its wheels for the entirety of the book barring one very upsetting twist in the middle. The ending was a total wet fart with nothing significant to say. I don't expect a stance from the author but when you set up a polarity like this and then constantly dangle supporting evidence in both directions, the work as a whole turns out wholly unsatisfying. Maybe I'm too demanding, but I felt jerked around to no actual purpose. I didn't expect clear answers, but the ambiguity was presented too cleanly, with neatly defined borders between points of view. That's in opposition to good horror, I think. Pretty bummed since I was looking forward to this one.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:51
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Rolo posted:Down and Out in Paris and London. It was probably the longest it’s taken me to read a 200 page book. It wasn’t complex by any means, just sort of monotonous and hard to read more than one chapter at a time. The Paris section of Down and Out is just terrible, period. It would be more accurately named "That Time I Had A poo poo Job In Paris And A Friend Kept Sending Me Reasonable Sums Of Money". The London section is much better.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:55
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imo it owns that we're now arguing about neil gaiman in two separate threads
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Aug 16, 2018 20:58
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chernobyl kinsman posted:imo it owns that we're now arguing about neil gaiman in two separate threads ^5
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Aug 16, 2018 21:27
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Arrows of the Queen by Mercedes Lackey, which I read on a wild whim to revisit my YA days, and oh... it's bad. It's got aspects that are so, so good and appealing to the kids who are going to read this - gods knew I fell for the "what if I were chosen by a magical awesome horse", and the "come to this badass school and make friends and be awesome at what you do" - good fantasies! - but the rest of it, yikes. For some reason, Mercedes Lackey decided that we the readers needed to know that the heroine, who is sixteen, is so closely mind-linked to her magical horse that she knows when her magical stallion has sex with the other horses, and that this increases her education in certain ways. why. why why why is this in a YA book, one aimed for kids, why was it included.
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Aug 16, 2018 21:35
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StrixNebulosa posted:Arrows of the Queen by Mercedes Lackey, which I read on a wild whim to revisit my YA days, and oh... it's bad. It's got aspects that are so, so good and appealing to the kids who are going to read this - gods knew I fell for the "what if I were chosen by a magical awesome horse", and the "come to this badass school and make friends and be awesome at what you do" - good fantasies! - but the rest of it, yikes. Deviant sexuality obsessed SFF writes gonna be obsessed about deviant sexuality, regardless of the target audience.
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Aug 16, 2018 21:46
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StrixNebulosa posted:Arrows of the Queen by Mercedes Lackey, which I read on a wild whim to revisit my YA days, and oh... it's bad. It's got aspects that are so, so good and appealing to the kids who are going to read this - gods knew I fell for the "what if I were chosen by a magical awesome horse", and the "come to this badass school and make friends and be awesome at what you do" - good fantasies! - but the rest of it, yikes. Kids gotta learn horses gently caress sometime
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Aug 16, 2018 21:55
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Chernabog posted:American Gods was kind of a slog to read but I did enjoy it all in all. Nice av/post combo! Franchescanado posted:Kids gotta learn horses gently caress sometime Next up- Piers Anthony!
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Aug 16, 2018 22:01
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BurningBeard posted:Oh for gently caress's sake. Gaiman isn't some pinnacle, but he's not so bad that he deserves the elitist egging he's being subjected to either. I don't understand why it's elitist to say that Neil Gaiman is bad, could u elaborate on this?
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Aug 17, 2018 00:16
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funkybottoms posted:Nice av/post combo! I'm actually liking the show more than the book. Hopefully it doesn't start sucking now that Fuller is gone.
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Aug 17, 2018 00:44
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A human heart posted:I don't understand why it's elitist to say that Neil Gaiman is bad, could u elaborate on this? I don't think you're discussing in good faith but whatever I'll bite. It's not at all. It is, however, pretty snotty to speak in such a way that you place yourself in a position of imagined authority on the subject and to pass judgement on others for recommending something that runs counter to your ridiculous standard. I read a lot of threads though and this is kind of your shtick so I shouldn't be surprised.
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Aug 17, 2018 04:58
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I don't recall doing any of that stuff. Seems kind of unlikely.
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Aug 17, 2018 05:44
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BurningBeard posted:I don't think you're discussing in good faith but whatever I'll bite. Actually I've read loads of books including Neil Gaimans American Gods so my position of authority when it comes to saying Neil Gaiman is bad is in fact very real my friend
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Aug 17, 2018 07:17
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Alien Virus Love Disaster: Stories by Abbey Mei Otis is a fantastic book. It's been a while since I've been sucked in by a collection of short stories. Most will have a clunker or two that break the spell for me, but from the titular story on through the end, it drew me in with Otis' prose and imagination. Particular highlights for me include If You Could Be God of Anything, Teacher, Sex Dungeons for Sad People, and Rich People. Although, to be completely honest, I could list the whole collection here.
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Aug 17, 2018 08:10
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fridge corn posted:Actually I've read loads of books including Neil Gaimans American Gods so my position of authority when it comes to saying Neil Gaiman is bad is in fact very real my friend
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Aug 17, 2018 15:18
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Neil Gaiman's books make really charming audiobooks but I can count on one hand the number of times I felt genuine emotion from them. They're strangely bloodless.
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Aug 17, 2018 15:22
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Nikita Khrushchev posted:Neil Gaiman's books make really charming audiobooks but I can count on one hand the number of times I felt genuine emotion from them. They're strangely bloodless. Bloodless is a great way to put it. The elements are all there. The delivery is competent. But it always feels very paint by numbers. Workmanlike, if not extraordinary. I remember reading American Gods as a kid, followed almost immediately by Neverwhere but I'll be damned if I can remember very much about them now. I did revisit Gods when it got the new release, and my memory was such that I almost felt Like I was Reading it for the first time. It dragged a lot the second time through. I know material was added but I'd attribute my impatience more to a gap of years and changes in taste more than anything reflective of the book itself though. Just ripped through I'm Thinking of Ending Things by Iain Reid and that was anything but bloodless. The premise is that the main character is about to meet their new boyfriend's parents, and they're considering the sever. It's hard to talk about without spoiling, but it's genuinely one of the most terrifying things I've read in a very long time. You'll want to go hug a loved one when it's over. I did. All I can really say is it shifts tone a few times throughout, and it commits to a metaphor and philosophical angle with a laser focus that in the hands of a worse author would play far too on the nose, but here it's a stunning use of pure craft. I don't want to needlessly salivate over it, but it really was that good.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:33
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I've always felt that many of his characters are strangely passive. With American Gods, I thought that was an intentional trait for Shadow but now I'm not so sure. Gaiman's protagonists don't do things, things happen to them.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:07
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Carnival of Shrews posted:It's weird. I can believe that Margaret Atwood hasn't read 'On the Origin of Species'; not everyone wants to learn about the finer points of pigeon-breeding. But I find it had to believe that this intimidatingly well-read author does not know that the full title is 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life', and has failed to reflect on all the implications of that title. This. This right here. I dunno, I was an anthropology major with a heavy emphasis on the physical science, and that has ruined a number of perfectly good stories for me.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:40
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Carnival of Shrews posted:There is a lot to both like and dislike in Oryx and Crake. But the character of Crake, especially, is a dislike from me. Not that he's a psychopathic genius bastard; that's fine (a less fine feature: the Watson-Crick Institute is nicknamed 'Aspergers U'. Hmm). The problem is, he's a brilliant genetic engineer who apparently reckons that he can (serious spoilers) create a utopian race of humans, devoid of aggression, sexism, racism, etc. ...and expect them to stay that way. And also that he can create a virus to which no pre-existing humans will have serendipitous (albeit, perhaps partial) immunity. You're giving Crake a lot more credit than the books do. He comes off as more of a megalomaniacal mad scientist than a "psychopathic genius bastard". And in fact, the books themselves are very clear that his plans do fail, since by the last book there are several human/new human hybrids born with the likelihood of more to come. However, I am in full agreement that the books were very boring, and all of the characters were bad.
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Aug 18, 2018 17:10
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Future Noir: The Making of Blade Runner - Paul M. Sammon As an in-depth, everything-is-covered-in-some-way history and making of Blade Runner, it's top notch. If you need to know how they made something or what it was like on set, or why an artistic decision was made (for any cut of the film), then this is yours. You could remake Blade Runner shot for shot perfectly with what's given. If you're a film buff, this is akin to a Bible. So it was entertaining in that aspect. It's everything else that falters. It deifies Ridley Scott to an extreme extent that the famously in-trouble, challenging production (where it was very much director vs everybody-on-set) is glossed over, or given very diplomatic denouements. Many aspects of the making-of are just lists, which strangely treads the line between thorough and shallow, because it's very much trying to fit everything in without being a total brick of a book. I don't know if this is just in the "New and Revised for Blade Runner 2049 Version" but there were a ton of spelling mistakes too. Probably half-a-dozen or so in every chapter. I was incredulous that no-one caught these.
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Aug 18, 2018 18:03
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Magic Strikes by Illona Andrews I can't help but enjoy these books, even with the eye rolling omg Curran is so hot passages. The story centres around a sort of Fight Club in this post apocalyptic world that draws Kate Daniels in to kick some rear end and take some names. The series reminds me of Marvel's horror books from the Seventies paired with a smart rear end narrator, and I love that.
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Aug 19, 2018 00:51
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Underground Airlines by Ben Winters. Last Policeman trilogy author. Story of a modern day America where slavery still persists and marshals return runaways. It’s a well thought out scenario, although I demand to know why if the Civil War wasn’t fought why West Virginia still broke off. It’s a solid read, not quite as good as Last Policeman but still worth your time. The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin. This was the first Le Guin book I’ve read and it was excellent. The conflict between the communal society planet and the capitalist planet was fascinating. Highly recommended. The Remains of the Day by Kazou Ishiguro (audiobook). Story of an aging English butler reflecting on his life in the 1950s. This was excellent, I especially liked how his memories are laid out and gradually reveal conflict between what he’s saying and what really happened. The scene where he keeps on serving when his father is dying was masterful. Top tier recommend. Matter and Consider Phlebas by Iain Banks. I started the Culture series with Player of Games and that spoiled me. Phlebas was ok, the end confrontation was interesting and the part with the weird tribe was gross and cool. I didn’t care for Matter, I think all Banks books could lose 10% to improve pacing, but for Matter maybe a third of the content could have been axed. They could have cut the Special Circumstances perspective character and focused on the feudal planet. The idea of a low technology world in conflict with neighbors while mysterious aliens meddle is good, but this is so overlong it isn’t a recommend. Reaper Man and Soul Music by Terry Pratchett. I liked Reaper Man as it was interesting to see him as a farm hand. As I go through DiscWorld for the first time the wacky wizard subplots are the weakest link. Their weird segment battling a giant mall was annoying. Soul Music was ok when it focused on the band. The wizard humor segment flopped, and I was confused about the reuse of “Death is on holiday” again so soon.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:27
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The Long Walk by King. It was supposed to be something chill and easy to pick up while I decide between Brothers Karamazov and War & Peace for my next big project and, while it was exactly that, I ended up really liking it. Each of the last 20 pages is like an individual punch right in the gut. It’s seriously tied with The Shining for my favorite King book.
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Aug 21, 2018 03:29
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Yeah I loved that book as a kid. I really think the Bachman books are some of the best stuff he wrote.
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Aug 21, 2018 14:33
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The Bat by nesbø. It felt a bit clunky and of its late nineties time, but it was a decent enough mystery.
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Aug 21, 2018 14:49
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Magic Mourns by Illona Andrews. It's set in the Kate Daniels universe, but instead of being about an exotic brunette with a magic sword who has the hots for a were-lion, this time it's about a beautiful blonde with guns who has the hots for a were-hyena.
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Aug 21, 2018 23:11
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I didn't just finish it, but over the summer: 1984 and Animal Farm, both by George Orwell. First time reading both of them. 1984 (incidentally, my birth year) was a deeply disturbing read; especially in this political environment. I've read most of the books in Stephen King's canon, and honestly, none of them were as unpleasant to read. It's bizarrely ironic to me that so much of 1984's slang - doubleplusgood, doublespeak, etc - have fallen into fairly common use that the power of reading them in this book has been somewhat reduced. Animal Farm was not unpleasant like 1984, but it was sad: the story of a promising political movement that was co-opted and corrupted by cynical opportunists until it became a parody of itself. Even more disturbing and sad was to see how easily the barnyard animals were manipulated by smooth-talking spokespeople. The human brain is so depressingly malleable and impressionable. All it takes is a lie repeated often enough, with passion. In a world where "deep fake" video is on the horizon and "fake news" is a concern, Animal Farm seems less like an allegory than a premonitional warning. Probably not the most original thing to be said about either novel, but the real-world analogues are abundantly obvious. Both were excellent novels, but I could only see myself revisiting Animal Farm. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 07:08
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The Face and The Book of Dreams by Jack Vance. The Face is a step down from the previous two Demon Princes books; while it ends with a really good joke, the scenario that kicks it off is a bit too dry for my tastes, and the middle section might be the least interesting scenario I've seen from Vance (not saying much), except for a brief detour into a sporting event. The Book of Dreams held my attention more easily, but it is not an escalation or culmination of previous events in the series; the final prince isn't any more dangerous for the protagonist to hunt than the first four, though he's a bit more entertaining and ambitious. In the end, these are minor complaints; the series is an entertaining series of cat and mouse games with a lot of ideas to blow past, most of which could have been the focus of an entire book on their own, and I admire Vance for writing it the way he did, even if I normally prefer a slightly different approach. I'll be coming back to his work.
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Aug 26, 2018 14:05
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Gnomon by Nick Harkaway. When I started off, I was worried it was going to be Black Mirror, and it never quite lost that "what if technology but more" vibe, but it did a number of other things too that were ultimately more interesting. Compared to his other books, I think I prefer Angelmaker's unrestrained weirdness, but it captures enough of that to keep it from falling into the same trap of Tigerman. (Not to say Tigerman's a bad book, it just doesn't have as much zing as his other novels.)
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Aug 27, 2018 12:44
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I Robot by Asimov, read by Scott Brick. It is a fun collection of stories involving robots inside the same universe. They follow mostly the same structure: something goes wrong and somebody has to fix the situation. The retro-futuristic (if I can call it that) technology is definitely dated in many respects but it is also endearing to see how they though about robots and AI several decades ago. The characters are mostly variations of "very smart and logical person" but from the few Asimov books I've read he is always more about the big picture than the characters. Scott Brick has a very clear voice that is easy to understand but he's not my favorite narrator since all his characters sound the same and he tends to use a petulant intonation.
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Aug 27, 2018 17:11
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House of Leaves. An art book pretending to be a horror novel wanting to be literature that has something deep to say.
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Aug 28, 2018 01:07
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Robot Wendigo posted:House of Leaves. oh great. I have a friend who REALLY WANTS to get me to read this
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Aug 28, 2018 05:53
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I feel like this is said in every loving TBB thread at some point, but if you do try to read House of Leaves, don't feel obligated to put up with all of it if you don't feel like it. It's totally fine to A) read it until you hit your personal bullshit level, then drop it, you'll likely have gotten to some of the stranger typographical stuff that made it kind of famous at the time B) only read the Navidson Record parts of the book because unless you like reading about a loser having bad sex, it's the only really interesting portion of the book or C) skip the book entirely. It's not really fantastic as an actual book, I've enjoyed reading it a couple of times but it mostly made a name for itself by being one big gimmick in print form. Really B is probably the best option if you absolutely must read it, I've never really bothered with the Johnny Truant portions or the blind guy's footnotes on re-reads since they're both pretty self-indulgent and Danielewski clearly thought he was much cleverer than he actually is while writing them. But seriously, you can not read it and your life will not be less for its absence. It's not revolutionary, just weird and potentially interesting depending on your tastes, don't let anybody talk you into believing otherwise.
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Aug 28, 2018 05:59
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Solitair posted:The Face and The Book of Dreams by Jack Vance. The Face is a step down from the previous two Demon Princes books; while it ends with a really good joke, the scenario that kicks it off is a bit too dry for my tastes, and the middle section might be the least interesting scenario I've seen from Vance (not saying much), except for a brief detour into a sporting event. The Book of Dreams held my attention more easily, but it is not an escalation or culmination of previous events in the series; the final prince isn't any more dangerous for the protagonist to hunt than the first four, though he's a bit more entertaining and ambitious. In the end, these are minor complaints; the series is an entertaining series of cat and mouse games with a lot of ideas to blow past, most of which could have been the focus of an entire book on their own, and I admire Vance for writing it the way he did, even if I normally prefer a slightly different approach. I'll be coming back to his work. The Face is the Jack Vance book where everyone in the book is a massive hair splitting rear end in a top hat, including Gersen's love-interest/extended family. Always thought Vance must have been going through a divorce/bankruptcy/civil court case that utterly screwed him over while writing the Face.
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Aug 28, 2018 23:22
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Speaking of House of Leaves, I recently finished The Familiar, volumes 1-5 by the same author. I enjoyed a lot of it, and it might be more accessible than House of Leaves once you get into its rhythm, but it isn't without problems. If you don't know what this is, it's a serialized story about a young girl finding a cat that makes weird poo poo happen to her, as well as a bunch of other people around the world that are connected to her and each other in various ways. The narrative jumps between nine perspective characters, each written differently, sometimes with minor variations in genre. As far as the characters go, Jingjing and Luther are at the bottom of the pack for me; I have similar complaints about them that the rest of you have about Johnny Truant, plus their chapters are peppered with Chinese and Spanish slang, respectively, that made me glad I had some annotations on hand. Some other characters are fine enough to read but their stories haven't reached the emotional heights that Shnorhk, Cas and Xanther's have. I'm also on the fence about how the various genres mix together. You've got long, introspective segments from people dealing with mundane problems like financial shortcomings and depression stemming from grief mixed with ominous, high concept portents about nebulous forces beyond other characters' control threatening their lives. I like both of those things individually, and I grew to like the way The Familiar shuffles between perspectives after a book or two, but that definitely won't be true for everyone. I might as well call this series The Deal-Breaker because of how many it has, the worst being how much it costs. If I hadn't found all five volumes in my local library, I wouldn't be typing this post right now. If you find them at a library too, or in a used book store at a more reasonable price, I recommend you give it a shot just to see if you like it. Because of all the negative space Danielewski uses, each book goes by much faster than anything else with its page count. Though there are always loose threads to be picked up by future books, each volume has at least a few events that are self contained, especially in volumes one and five. Plus, the page corners are color-coded by character, so it's easy to skip the characters you can't stand. It'd be nice to see more people talk about this book in general, even if it's just to rip it apart.
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Aug 29, 2018 15:20
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Solitair posted:Speaking of House of Leaves, I recently finished The Familiar, volumes 1-5 by the same author. I enjoyed a lot of it, and it might be more accessible than House of Leaves once you get into its rhythm, but it isn't without problems. If you don't know what this is, it's a serialized story about a young girl finding a cat that makes weird poo poo happen to her, as well as a bunch of other people around the world that are connected to her and each other in various ways. The narrative jumps between nine perspective characters, each written differently, sometimes with minor variations in genre. I am a big fan of House of Leaves and have also read The Familiar. It's awful. MZD takes the story and stretches it out (he wants 27 volumes) and each one is pricey AND he has confirmed that he probably won't finish it due to interest waning. Seems like a money grab to me. Every single character is written in the most stereotypical way possible. Latinos, eastern europeans, asians are all in written in a way that a white author would imagine them to speak, in an overly exaggerated broken english. Unlike HoL, where the formatting gimmick is actually useful in giving a sense of dread or quick page turning to create a sense of anxiety, the formatting here is pointless. The stream of conscious chapters are annoying to read. MZD essentially replaces all punctuation with thoughts in parenthesis. Making something difficult to read does not automatically make it interesting. I could go on in more detail, but essentially don't waste your time.
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Aug 29, 2018 19:25
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Oh, and I also read Pawn of Prophecy by David Eddings. It's the first part of The Belgariad, which was sold to me as a classic fantasy narrative light on innovation but also on bullshit. So far that holds true. The story feels way more streamlined than, say, The Wheel of Time and the characters have pretty good chemistry. It feels a little bland and dated, but it doesn't gently caress anything up either. I'll consider continuing the series later.TommyGun85 posted:I am a big fan of House of Leaves and have also read The Familiar. It's awful. MZD takes the story and stretches it out (he wants 27 volumes) and each one is pricey AND he has confirmed that he probably won't finish it due to interest waning. Seems like a money grab to me. I already did spend my time, having read all the available books, but you're kind of right. I'm definitely left with a sense of disappointment at the incompleteness of the story, and I'm also frustrated at MZD for making it (and pricing it) the way he did. This series almost seems like it was destined to fail. Like I said, Luther and Jingjing are my least favorite characters, not because they're stereotypical (though that doesn't help), but because they're boring assholes. I actually turned around on Shnorhk and liked him much more once I figured out why he acts the way he does, but now that I think about it, that information should never have been concealed in the first place. I still got a bunch of good moments out of it, and found the quick page turning an effective way to raise suspense, but right now I'm just trying to move on and find a more complete and satisfying book.
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Aug 30, 2018 01:42
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Solitair posted:Oh, and I also read Pawn of Prophecy by David Eddings. It's the first part of The Belgariad, which was sold to me as a classic fantasy narrative light on innovation but also on bullshit. So far that holds true. The story feels way more streamlined than, say, The Wheel of Time and the characters have pretty good chemistry. It feels a little bland and dated, but it doesn't gently caress anything up either. I'll consider continuing the series later. You will probably enjoy it, all of his stuff is fine, not exciting, not fantastic, but solid writing and a minimum of pretentiousness. Sort of like fantasy cotton candy 
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Aug 30, 2018 02:22
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I just finished American Gods by Neil Gaiman. I actually loaned my mother the book before reading it and she sent it back after only reading like 70 pages. Oddly enough she wasn't weirded out by the prostitute sucking the dude up in her vagina but by Laura coming back from the dead. I liked the book, but Shadow was an incredibly dull main character. I really liked the scene where Shadow was being ferried across the lake in the afterlife by Mr. Ibis and had his heart weighed against a feather I wish Gaiman would have done more interesting scenes like that with other mythologies.
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Aug 30, 2018 11:11
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