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^This guy gets it. The whole appeal of AD&D was how buckwild it was, a lot of my favorite encounters were stuff like the dreamers from The Lost City or that one Ogre from Chateau D'Amberville. Weird people who you don't always fight.
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Aug 30, 2018 04:44
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^^^Yea and that too! Part of the fun of being a level 1 douchebag was when your GM said 'and, sleeping in this chamber, is an ogre!' you knew that meant 'cool sneaky/tricky time' because you super aren't supposed to wake that dude up and fight him because he will eat your butts without a sweat.fool_of_sound posted:Yeah, I really like some of DCC's ideas. It's take on Warrior, Cleric, and Thief are pretty good. The racial classes, on the other hand, are disappointing, and wizards have like 4 different obnoxious subsystem 'balancing' factors instead of just trying to balance their spells. Also imo the game really misses that a major thrill of dungeon crawling is finding big cool randomly generated treasure piles, including quirky magic items. Yea they got WAY to obsessed with 'at low levels a cat can kill you and you should be lucky to get a nice sword' and forgot that almost every actually fun dungeon crawl ends in a Scrooge McDuckian pile of fun randomly generated garbage to play with as you reward for not getting murdered by a cat. Like that's what I don't get about all these old school love letters, did my group and my social circle of other gamers just all have a MASSIVELY different experience with this stuff or was the point of sucking poo poo for the first few levels not the fun and satisfaction of rolling into your dirtball village with a baby dragon corpse and a bag of shiny gold coins and cool trinkets to show off. That was an 'official' D&D image, right? That drawing of some clearly new adventurers proudly hanging out around a strung up young dragon's corpse and the colors were bright and it was a good time? Where was all this dark dank dirty no shiny fun rewards gaming going on? sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Aug 30, 2018 |
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Aug 30, 2018 04:45
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sexpig by night posted:^^^Yea and that too! Part of the fun of being a level 1 douchebag was when your GM said 'and, sleeping in this chamber, is an ogre!' you knew that meant 'cool sneaky/tricky time' because you super aren't supposed to wake that dude up and fight him because he will eat your butts without a sweat. Nice bit of Larry Elmore art, yeah it was official:  Remember when elves were just like 4' tall 70s hot moms? Oh and the answer to where that gaming was was at my friends houses. Steve ran Ravenloft as this grimdark assholeball where everyone in every town was played by the same dour jerk, and Tavis ran the "true realism" campaign where you had to roll your stats on the other side of a DM screen because "real people don't know their own statistics." theironjef fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Aug 30, 2018 |
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Aug 30, 2018 05:16
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Doesn't the character funnel select for more effective characters? I mean, low-level D&D is so swingy it wouldn't do a particularly good job of it, but it would at least lean towards them, I'd presume?
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Aug 30, 2018 05:40
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Doesn't the character funnel select for more effective characters? I mean, low-level D&D is so swingy it wouldn't do a particularly good job of it, but it would at least lean towards them, I'd presume? I would assume it does if only because players will automatically keep their best character in the back and send Chumpsy McRollsAllNines to the fray every time.
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Aug 30, 2018 05:41
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Doesn't the character funnel select for more effective characters? I mean, low-level D&D is so swingy it wouldn't do a particularly good job of it, but it would at least lean towards them, I'd presume? In macro, I guess, but not in terms of 'each person has four dudes which we will hopefully reduce to one' theironjef posted:I would assume it does if only because players will automatically keep their best character in the back and send Chumpsy McRollsAllNines to the fray every time. lol ya this too. 'oh no my total 40 stat halfling died to disarm a trap...'
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Aug 30, 2018 05:42
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fool_of_sound posted:lol ya this too. 'oh no my total 40 stat halfling died to disarm a trap...' In that respect it's very much like OD&D to go by some of the stories I've heard, just more up-front about it.
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Aug 30, 2018 06:51
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Hey, classic D&D is about HIRING shifty low stat companions to walk into traps, not BEING them.
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Aug 30, 2018 07:06
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sexpig by night posted:Hey, classic D&D is about HIRING shifty low stat companions to walk into traps, not BEING them. I mean I've heard enough stories about people with lovely characters walking them into obvious meatgrinders so they could roll up a new one to assume that a non-zero number of OD&D players were basically doing what the funnel does, just without a formal term for it.
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Aug 30, 2018 07:24
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Kai Tave posted:I mean I've heard enough stories about people with lovely characters walking them into obvious meatgrinders so they could roll up a new one to assume that a non-zero number of OD&D players were basically doing what the funnel does, just without a formal term for it. Right - the funnel is, in a sense, a formalized version of having Belf get killed by a housecat or a 10-foot pit, and then taking another character sheet from a pile of xerox copies, putting in the name Delf, and continuing onwards.
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Aug 30, 2018 07:33
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They basically played these like video games.
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Aug 30, 2018 09:47
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sexpig by night posted:^^^Yea and that too! Part of the fun of being a level 1 douchebag was when your GM said 'and, sleeping in this chamber, is an ogre!' you knew that meant 'cool sneaky/tricky time' because you super aren't supposed to wake that dude up and fight him because he will eat your butts without a sweat. You could certainly pile up gold for your players (some DCC modules have this, like The One Who Watches from Below) but the game is going for a low magic, dark ages feel based on Appendix N, rather than just emulating early D&D whole hog.
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Aug 30, 2018 13:36
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gradenko_2000 posted:Right - the funnel is, in a sense, a formalized version of having Belf get killed by a housecat or a 10-foot pit, and then taking another character sheet from a pile of xerox copies, putting in the name Delf, and continuing onwards. What happened to Celf?
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Aug 30, 2018 14:43
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Moriatti posted:DCC sucks and I'd rather play 2e. I like the Mighty Deed thing for Warriors. Other than that, I just appreciate it as a series of modules. (And the art.)
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Aug 30, 2018 14:48
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alg posted:You could certainly pile up gold for your players (some DCC modules have this, like The One Who Watches from Below) but the game is going for a low magic, dark ages feel based on Appendix N, rather than just emulating early D&D whole hog. And then it puts in ghost pirates and talking swords and goofy mutations. It's not emulating low fantasy, it's emulating 'lmao I died from touching the crown and scepter in the wrong order' from gygax modules, with a side of every wacky stdh story that people tell about Warhammer fantasy role play. Honestly I'm kinda mad about how it misrepresents itself. The early chapters talk about recapturing the classic dungeon feel but in fact is doing 100% it's own thing. It was an incredible disappointment after being drawn in.
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Aug 30, 2018 14:58
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I love DCC. It is good and cool. The game is a bunch more than just the funnels. 
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Aug 30, 2018 14:59
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fool_of_sound posted:And then it puts in ghost pirates and talking swords and goofy mutations. It's not emulating low fantasy, it's emulating 'lmao I died from touching the crown and scepter in the wrong order' from gygax modules, with a side of every wacky stdh story that people tell about Warhammer fantasy role play. it is emulating a certain kind of game, and you even correctly identified it as that particularly Gygaxian kind of deathtrap dungeon with a dash of the days when sci-fi and fantasy were one and the same. It's just that that, and "low fantasy", aren't synonymous. Black Company it ain't.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:03
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D&D isn't built for low fantasy and doesn't do low fantasy without being heavily modified. I'm extremely suspicious of any game that advertises itself as "grim," "gritty," "low fantasy," "dark fantasy," "weird fantasy," or God forbid "grimdark" because what the gently caress do any of those things actually mean? I posted more about this in the OSR thread, but old-school D&D already draws on a set of influences that makes it Weird and Dark from the outset. The other thing about doing a "low fantasy" D&D is that you are now getting into that branch of D&D spinoffs that may call themselves OSR, but are pretty far away from one of the original goals of the OSR: making a base game that's compatible with old modules and third-party modules. There's a lot to like in A Ghastly Affair, for example, but that game is not meant for sending your PCs to the Isle of Dread.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:19
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fool_of_sound posted:And then it puts in ghost pirates and talking swords and goofy mutations. It's not emulating low fantasy, it's emulating 'lmao I died from touching the crown and scepter in the wrong order' from gygax modules, with a side of every wacky stdh story that people tell about Warhammer fantasy role play. That stuff is straight out of Appendix N, though. Magic items are pretty rare and could have harmful effects. Most people don't travel farther than the next town, if that. Funnels are definitely gygaxian but when you move past them the modules start to emulate the fiction, especially stuff like Intrigue at the Court of Chaos. Characters at level 1 are extremely powerful in DCC and do stuff like travel to other planes, fight gods, or teleport between time and space. It's not the traditional fight giant rats, then goblins, then orcs, etc. I can see how people might not like it but for my group it's the perfect simple fantasy game. Most adventures last an evening or two and my players have options but I don't have to almost run their characters for them like I did with other games.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:22
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Edit: NM I realized I wrote an essay about basically why I don't post in the chat thread.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:23
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There's systems where I find character creation fun and systems which I don't (even though I like the rest) tbh.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:Black Company it ain't. Wait, in what world does Black Company count as low fantasy
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Aug 30, 2018 17:27
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I mean, kind of the point of Int/Wis/Cha is different kinds of intellectual capability. Int vs Wis is the subject of a lot of old jokes. Usually more or less 'book smarts' vs 'street smarts'.  The point of Int/Wis/Cha being different stats is so that there are three mental and three physical attributes, meaning that nerds are AT LEAST equal to jocks (i.e., they needed to come up with a way to feel equal to them somehow).
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Aug 30, 2018 18:41
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Xiahou Dun posted:What happened to Celf?
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Aug 30, 2018 18:44
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Yawgmoth posted:Rolled a 3 Con and died to elf stat mods. Poor Celf. Thought of Con mods and died.
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Aug 30, 2018 19:17
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Con mods 
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Aug 30, 2018 19:22
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Haystack posted:Wait, in what world does Black Company count as low fantasy
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Aug 30, 2018 19:30
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Does anyone have any opinions on The One Ring RPG? Saw it on Humble Bundle and while it's awfully tempting, wanted to see if anyone had played it before first.
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Aug 30, 2018 20:47
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Arthil posted:Does anyone have any opinions on The One Ring RPG? Saw it on Humble Bundle and while it's awfully tempting, wanted to see if anyone had played it before first. I'm going to steal this from the Deals thread* as an answer; Lemon-Lime posted:The One Ring is literally one of the best games ever written and $15 for the entire line is a loving steal. *https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3534648
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Aug 30, 2018 20:50
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Arthil posted:Does anyone have any opinions on The One Ring RPG? Saw it on Humble Bundle and while it's awfully tempting, wanted to see if anyone had played it before first. I’ve been running a play-by-email of it for just over two years now, and a) it’s A#1++ for evoking the themes and mood and b) it’s top-shelf suited to the pbem format if that floats your boat.
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Aug 30, 2018 21:20
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Arthil posted:Does anyone have any opinions on The One Ring RPG? Saw it on Humble Bundle and while it's awfully tempting, wanted to see if anyone had played it before first. It's excellent and well worth picking up if you're ever interested in Tolkien or even just actual low fantasy.
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Aug 30, 2018 21:40
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now I for sure don't know what low fantasy means
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Aug 30, 2018 22:10
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Well it’s not like Feanor is a playable character
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Aug 30, 2018 22:16
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alg posted:now I for sure don't know what low fantasy means Imo it means 'any supernatural powers the party possesses are relatively low-key and low-impact'. Ars Magica is highly historical, but is not low fantasy despite this, because the supernatural is front and center. In The One Ring, nobody has anything more overtly magical than some slightly paranormal elf bullshit, despite the world itself being fantastic.
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Aug 30, 2018 22:18
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Traditionally high/low fantasy referred to the types of stories being told but these days it seems to refer to the amount of magic present
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Aug 30, 2018 22:22
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cheetah7071 posted:Traditionally high/low fantasy referred to the types of stories being told but these days it seems to refer to the amount of magic present The type and amount of supernatural stuff is one of the single strongest influences a fantasy setting can have on the stories told therein.
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Aug 30, 2018 22:29
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fool_of_sound posted:The type and amount of supernatural stuff is one of the single strongest influences a fantasy setting can have on the stories told therein. Well yeah but the traditional high/low fantasy divide is mostly about stuff orthogonal to that. Like are you telling a story about heroes going on a quest to overcome evil? That's high fantasy. Is it more muddled with shades of gray and ambiguous characters? That's low fantasy. Or that's how I understood it.
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Aug 30, 2018 22:32
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cheetah7071 posted:Well yeah but the traditional high/low fantasy divide is mostly about stuff orthogonal to that. Like are you telling a story about heroes going on a quest to overcome evil? That's high fantasy. Is it more muddled with shades of gray and ambiguous characters? That's low fantasy. Or that's how I understood it. I guess, but I've never heard of anyone using it as anything other that to mean 'the amount that fantastic elements influence the story'.
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Aug 30, 2018 22:51
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The problem with high or low magic as a description is that everything gets skewed hard by D&D being the weird wizard show yet steadfastly refusing to own up to it.
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Aug 30, 2018 22:57
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Traditionally, low fantasy refers to some fantastical elements intruding on an otherwise ordinary world, so you also have to answer to Ray Bradbury and a great many children's books. The concept of "low fantasy" we're struggling to pin down here is in large part a self-justifying product of D&D-as-a-genre-of-fantasy-fiction.
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Aug 30, 2018 23:06
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