Hexel posted:

im gonna go ahead and say ncdot dies within 12-24 months

active and useful dudes will gradually see themselves out to smaller alliances like BL who dont have a million bluetrals

Landsknecht posted:

I think the same thing happened with ex-goon-hero phreeze

45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:

also from the outside looking in it seems like PL had a lot of inactive leadership that didn't do anything but also never gave up the keys to the alliance

evilweasel posted:

evilweasel posted:

i doubt it. with jump fatigue empires spanning half the map are mostly dead, and so even if we bulldoze the entire north all we can do is then leave. there's no credible alliances to maintain control over the north besides nc., and if they add a good chunk of PL's supercap fleet they'll have enough to have local superiority as long as we or TEST aren't nearby, more than enough to keep the whip hand over GOTG and the rest of the no-name northern alliances. they've adapted well enough to the current meta to survive, i think.

i think they'll wind up shedding more of the bluetrals and trying to poach them rather than keep them around indefinitely

evilweasel posted:

the impression i get is that the inactive leadership stayed around and posted and such but the keys to do things were turned over to the next generation. a lot of core PL stuff is still held by Shamis who probably hasn't played in the better part of a decade, but that's a security thing (holding AT ships, holding corp CEO, other things that the active directors don't need on a day to day or even month to month basis)

the problem is just that the new generation is poo poo

Landsknecht posted:

didn't -A- have some real mystique early on? like pre-2008

Landsknecht posted:

no, this was held differently

ISRAD has around 20 AT ships right now because a lot of our guys put in a lot of effort to win those, and contributed a lot to alliance programs and logistics

unironically evemail penifsmash if you want to buy some

evilweasel posted:

yeah back when evil thug was still in charge, then i think he got addicted to WoW and nobody else in the alliance had any loving idea what they were doing (and if they did, one of the other russian alliances poached them) and rapidly snowballed into poo poo. i think they loaned the bpo for goonswarm's first titan, then became hostile when that whole plex drama caused a fracturing of the alliance between various russian alliances and Goonswarm.

all of the mystique is super cringy to look back on, but then again literally all eve mystique is super cringy to look back on


that'd make sense, i knew you distributed a good chunk of them to the players but i thought there was also an alliance cache for future use

evilweasel posted:

yeah back when evil thug was still in charge, then i think he got addicted to WoW and nobody else in the alliance had any loving idea what they were doing (and if they did, one of the other russian alliances poached them) and rapidly snowballed into poo poo. i think they loaned the bpo for goonswarm's first titan, then became hostile when that whole plex drama caused a fracturing of the alliance between various russian alliances and Goonswarm.

all of the mystique is super cringy to look back on, but then again literally all eve mystique is super cringy to look back on


that'd make sense, i knew you distributed a good chunk of them to the players but i thought there was also an alliance cache for future use

Landsknecht posted:

I mean if we wanted we could've moonwalked out of there with a stupid amount of stuff, because a few people in the corp ran most of the AT stuff for the past few years (lmao), in addition to a lot of alliance+renter management, but I guess the parting was on better terms? and there wouldn't really be a point to having a single corp be that rich, unless we all decided to buy revenants or some silly meme

evilweasel posted:

first, their recruitment of "elite" people got hurt by the problem of overrecruiting immense shitlords. the people who used to be in charge were charismatic, interesting people (compared to the usual eve player), while the current crop is basically 4chan detrius. nobody, and i mean nobody, is looking at current pl leadership and thinking "i want to be one of those people and fly with them"

evilweasel posted:

yeah one of the oddities of EVE is that very rich people are actually quite trustworthy because once you can afford your own titan, there's basically nothing more that more money can get you. like, if there was 25T in the goonswarm wallet i would not be tempted to steal it because there's nothing I can do with 25T that I can't do with 2T, but taking the 25T would significantly limit what i could do in EVE in the future by burning bridges. big thefts are more about the gently caress you than being space rich.

back in the day when RMT was basically legal, then it had more incentive but rmt is kinda hard to do now, and especially hard to do if you've just wrecked your relationships in-game that would let you do it quietly

Klyith posted:

I think there's a bit you're not seeing, that there's also a big aspect of PHorde in this. PL has been on a decline in activity for a while now, longer than just the current generation. PL got a bunch of their status by being the elite destination. After Horde anybody could get a taste, and they didn't even need a supercap. Yeah it wasn't exactly the same thing, all the PL and PH people would loudly insist. But the core of PH came over from PL, all the FCs were PL alts at first, and they did joint ops at times.

I don't think there was a ton of PH -> PL recruitment. And Phorde is still doing fine. They're welping fleets of dreads, but at least they're enthusiastic about it.

So the current PL leadership being lovely I bet is more effect than cause. They had less fresh blood to draw from so the pool of FCs was small. And PL's nebulous leadership-by-popular-participation thing only works when there's enough alternatives that the shitlers don't become the default choice.

Klyith posted:

I think there's a bit you're not seeing, that there's also a big aspect of PHorde in this. PL has been on a decline in activity for a while now, longer than just the current generation. PL got a bunch of their status by being the elite destination. After Horde anybody could get a taste, and they didn't even need a supercap. Yeah it wasn't exactly the same thing, all the PL and PH people would loudly insist. But the core of PH came over from PL, all the FCs were PL alts at first, and they did joint ops at times.

I don't think there was a ton of PH -> PL recruitment. And Phorde is still doing fine. They're welping fleets of dreads, but at least they're enthusiastic about it.

So the current PL leadership being lovely I bet is more effect than cause. They had less fresh blood to draw from so the pool of FCs was small. And PL's nebulous leadership-by-popular-participation thing only works when there's enough alternatives that the shitlers don't become the default choice.

Landsknecht posted:

PL was really awesome for a long time because of the uncontested power of autismchariots; you could ride around the galaxy and destroy

I remember weasel or someone being super exasperated years ago because PL would rip apart alphafleets with tracking titans, and even though it was much cheaper to SRP an alphafleet, PL titans weren't killable at the time

evilweasel posted:

yeah loving up the structure of horde was a massive mistake. pl wanted to maintain their elite status, couldn't square that with an alliance that would accept anyone who could find the "apply" button, and so they let horde become its own thing instead of a feeder under tight mothership control. but there are a lot of people that, three or four years ago, saw the path to advancement in eve as becoming a well known FC in some medium-tier alliance so they could get booshed into PL when it went to harvest the talent from that alliance, then being a PL fc with great fcs like grath, elise, etc. nobody in a medium-tier alliance who is an up and comer now is looking to do that.


yeah tracking titans were loving infuriating, but there's never really been a time since that you couldn't wipe out a subcap fleet with the right combo of supercaps, it just shifted to the slowcat meta for a while, and you could only deploy carriers like that with supercap superiority

Landsknecht posted:

i think some of the best alliances to be in right now if you're interested in actively playing are the ones in the E/SE, like TRI, skillu, and volta

the DRF, which had long been sort of a bogeyman, was wiped out by a motley band of wormholers and hazers, which is kinda like what the PL of yore would do

the large collection of rich bittervets now is making medium alliances more interesting, since it's pretty easy to run a handful of rorqs or a hel in drones, branch/tenal or eso and fund yourself through that

iospace posted:

I have an old rear end version of Pyfa, but here we go:

Your align time is 1.69s, with all 5s. Take one off and you're now at 1.8s. This effectively is zero change in align time because of ticks. Take a second off and now you're at 2.03s align, or effectively 3 seconds.

evilweasel posted:

then the people whose idea of a spreadsheet is that if you need the sum of a column of numbers, you pull out your calculator and add them all up then type the answer in, want this magical document that explains excel and why your spreadsheet is automatically creating the reports that they spend hours making for their case

evilweasel posted:

yeah i really hope that the meta shifts to more of an anarchic state with lots of medium-sized alliances rather than just a handful of big players refighting the same wars over and over again. krablands being so rich means that deploying farther than your borders is loving expensive, so alliances that live in 0.0 are less willing to go across the map to intervene in a random war when it means their flow of mining can get wrecked as a result.

Landsknecht posted:

the endgame of eve is going to be eso, tenal, and delve being hyperindustrialized, along with a trade route to hisec

nobody can really compete with the wealth generated in such a way, especially for individual players - this kind of wealth can easily fund "fun" activities in any area that has reasonable logistics, basing, and access (like curse, PB, or NPC geminate)

I think the current expansion of GSF is going to be limited to CR, because there aren't enough players to fill these regions, and having to rebase titans to project force is pretty aids

evilweasel posted:

with citadels, you don't need to occupy space to effectively hurt the former occupants. you burn it to the ground and leave, that's a much more meaningful loss than the old "welp we're out some ihubs". before if you burned a region to the ground and left you didn't meaningfully hurt the other side, now they've got a repair bill in the trillions to get a good amount of moongoo mining/citadels/factories back up

Landsknecht posted:

it would be kinda cool for GSF to put up a number of keepstars around fade/pb/cr/dek and just burn the poo poo outta dumpsterco, or anyone else who tries to gain a presence in the region

evilweasel posted:

Rutibex posted:

Ah thanks! I didn't know there was a "hard cap" on align time due to server ticks. I can change it over to nanofiber internal structures. I wasn't planning on using the interceptor much for combat, its mostly for flying around quickly. Thats why I wanted the cloak, so I can travel through wormholes safely.

Rutibex posted:

Just fly there. The route from Jita to goonspace is long but there is almost never anyone camping it. I have done it in a shuttle many times with no issue.

FruitNYogurtParfait posted:

shut up idiot

Crazycryodude posted:

For like multiple years I've been on and off wanting to get into EVE but keep pulling up at the last second because of the horror stories, pls convince me to finally do it

evilweasel posted:

PL formed Horde, which was an inspired idea, and promptly implemented by making GBS threads on them hardcore and letting them get independent rather than structuring them as a feeder alliance that was tightly integrated with PL. now, it's pretty clear that PL is now the junior party in that relationship. horde has relevance in 0.0, pl, not so much.

Truga posted:

Hi I used to play this game during 2008-2011 or so and I keep having the itch every now and then. Do I still want to have 4 accounts if I want to be self-sufficient in nullsec, or will alpha clones allow me to do that with just one? e: to clarify, I had a jump freighter and a carrier to move my poo poo between jita and nullsec, and I needed two cyno accounts basically to make it work between delve, fountain, and lowsec.

Also sad reading about PL falling into disrepair (i was in snigg), but I'm also not overly surprised.

Ynglaur posted:

Counterpoint: I lost a travelceptor carrying BPOs because wasn't paying attention.

Rhymenoserous posted:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that how PL created horde was probably one of the most noteworthy bits of null-sec Machiavellian assholry I've ever seen and I kinda applaud them for it. Clubbing a "Newbie/Idiot" friendly alliance till it crumbles, then sweeping the crumbles into a pan and making your own coherent whole out of it... dang. The best part was Brave Newbies leadership being so loving toxic that most people didn't even think to blame PL for it and instead defected to their "Brand New Newbie Friendly Alliance" (Now that we killed the last one). If Brave Newbies had even halfway coherent leadership with any control over their own story we'd have been watching the birth of a new swarm and a rivalry to match ours with BoB.

Not gonna lie I was secretly hoping we'd get involved, but every time the moron in charge of Brave opened his mouth I realized why we didn't.

evilweasel posted:

citadels

Truga posted:

holy poo poo, that's a new thing for me. and it looks like I can afford an astrahus or three??? I figured these would be like outposts

Next question: is w-space still scary and with no local and random? I kinda liked the idea back in the day but was too busy blowing poo poo up to bother too much. Would dropping a cheap citadel in one be viable, or are wormholes too small to get that kind of cargo in?

Also, thanks for all the input on alpa accounts, hailthefish

evilweasel posted:

pl wanted to maintain their elite status, couldn't square that with an alliance that would accept anyone who could find the "apply" button

Gwyneth Palpate posted:

There's all kinds of structures now. Three kinds of mediums, three kinds of larges, and two kinds of extra-large ("goon sized.") The medium ones like an astrahus fit inside a blockade runner, so they're super easy to spam everywhere. They can only dock subcaps and (jump) freighters. You can dock regular capitals in a Fortizar (the large, requires a rorqual or orca to deploy) and supercarriers/titans in the Keepstar (XL, requires regular freighter).