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Irony Be My Shield posted:Do you really want to pile in with BotL's anti-feminism callback. Is this going to be a thing the thread does now. Rejecting the concept of "toxic masculinity" is not anti-feminist, especially when it's done in favour of the feminist concept of hegemonic masculinity. jivjov posted:When they're repeatedly saying that their own personal feelings override reality, yeah, they're being really dumb. jivjov posted:No, now you're falling into the same trap. You're saying that corporate licence controls reality?
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Aug 31, 2018 00:57
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You're saying that corporate licence controls reality? Im saying that the owners of Star Wars determine what is and isn't canon. If you don't accept this, you aren't accepting reality.
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Aug 31, 2018 00:58
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jivjov posted:Im saying that the owners of Star Wars determine what is and isn't canon. If you don't accept this, you aren't accepting reality. "Corporate dogma about art" doesn't sound like reality to me. Truth be told, it sounds like the exact opposite of reality.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:"Corporate dogma about art" doesn't sound like reality to me. Truth be told, it sounds like the exact opposite of reality. Well then you're straight up wrong.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:01
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BotL made that the books are no longer canon?
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Aug 31, 2018 01:02
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Star Wars isn't real. It's a fiction.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:02
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jivjov posted:Well then you're straight up wrong. So you're saying that a corporation can control what is true and what is not?
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Aug 31, 2018 01:02
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jivjov posted:Im saying that the owners of Star Wars determine what is and isn't canon. If you don't accept this, you aren't accepting reality. Canon is the subject matter of some supplementary texts that are about Star Wars. Everybody accepts that those supplementary texts state the things that you have said they do. Nobody doubts that the placemat has a map with both Tatooine and Jakku on it, and nobody doubts that the authors of the placemap have declared that it is consistent with a movie that they own the trademark to. Canon is outside of the movies. The movies are not "within" the canon; if you eliminated the canon, the movies would be unchanged. The canon is a separate text that refers to the movies. The identity of the author of that separate text is irrelevant.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:07
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So you're saying that a corporation can control what is true and what is not? Within the confines of a fictional universe they own, absolutely
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Aug 31, 2018 01:09
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Bongo Bill posted:Canon is the subject matter of some supplementary texts that are about Star Wars. Everybody accepts that those supplementary texts state the things that you have said they do. Nobody doubts that the placemat has a map with both Tatooine and Jakku on it, and nobody doubts that the authors of the placemap have declared that it is consistent with a movie that they own the trademark to. What placemat? Why do people keep ranting about a placemat? When did anyone ever post.m a placemat?
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Aug 31, 2018 01:10
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Whats the threads opinion on Solo? For me it was alright, didn't hate it and liked it a bit more than Rogue One. I actually liked Alden Ehrenreich playing Solo and wouldn't mind seeing him play the part again. I do wish they had more of a friendship developed between Lando and him though. Instead of using Lando for the gag at the end, I would've liked them having to work together to get out of the situation after Han got backstabbed. Would have been cool to see them become fast friends from that after being kind of antagonistic to each other in the rest of the movie.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:11
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jivjov posted:Within the confines of a fictional universe they own, absolutely There's actually no universe there. There's an illusion of a universe. What they own is the copyright for the media that depicts components of this illusion and other related illusions, and the trademark under which these media are sold.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:12
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Raccooon posted:Whats the threads opinion on Solo? It's unbelievably bad, in a way that is totally boring to talk about
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Aug 31, 2018 01:13
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jivjov posted:Within the confines of a fictional universe they own, absolutely So corporations can control truth when it comes to their copyright.. I've never seen such an ardent defender of corporate power outside of the Republican party.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:14
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Raccooon posted:Whats the threads opinion on Solo? I walked in wondering if we even needed a Solo origin. I walked out having had a wonderful time with a pulpy Star Wars romp. I wish we had gotten a little more of Han and Beckitt's crew, I adored how they used Voss as an antagonist, i absolutely can see how Han goes from the end of Solo to the beginning of ANH
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Aug 31, 2018 01:15
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jivjov posted:What placemat? Why do people keep ranting about a placemat? When did anyone ever post.m a placemat? I apologize for this minor error; I was confused by a meme. What I meant to say instead of "placemat" was "website:"
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Aug 31, 2018 01:15
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Bongo Bill posted:I apologize for this minor error; I was confused by a meme. What I meant to say instead of "placemat" was "website:" That's one hell of a typo. And doesn't explain how other posters are making the exact same typo.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:16
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Anyway, let me try that a second time:jivjov posted:Im saying that the owners of Star Wars determine what is and isn't canon. If you don't accept this, you aren't accepting reality. Canon is the subject matter of some supplementary texts that are about Star Wars. Everybody accepts that those supplementary texts state the things that you have said they do. Nobody doubts that the website has a map with both Tatooine and Jakku on it, and nobody doubts that the authors of the website have declared that it is consistent with a movie that they own the trademark to. Canon is outside of the movies. The movies are not "within" the canon; if you eliminated the canon, the movies would be unchanged. The canon is a separate text that refers to the movies. The identity of the author of that separate text is irrelevant.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:16
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jivjov posted:That's one hell of a typo. And doesn't explain how other posters are making the exact same typo. Hm, must be due to an anti jivjov conspiracy. Or, perhaps people like having funny things in their posts
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Aug 31, 2018 01:17
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Rejecting the concept of "toxic masculinity" is not anti-feminist, especially when it's done in favour of the feminist concept of hegemonic masculinity.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:17
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Bongo Bill posted:Anyway, let me try that a second time: No, the films are part of the canon as well.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:18
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jivjov posted:No, the films are part of the canon as well. According to the canon, they are, yes. But not according to the films themselves.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:18
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Eh, makes sense to me to have canon be what the owners of the media say it is as a clear cut off. Otherwise, fans just argue over each others head canon. You are free to have whatever head canon you want.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:18
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Irony Be My Shield posted:When you just randomly declare that toxic masculinity doesn't exist out of the blue (as you did last time) you reveal your actual motivation, which is to argue that feminists are wrong and societal expectations. Are you saying that feminists cannot be wrong? And societal expectations?
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Aug 31, 2018 01:19
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Bongo Bill posted:According to the canon, they are, yes. But not according to the films themselves. So the films aren't canonical to one another? Episode V isn't in the same continuity as Episode IV? They all exist in a complete vacuum and we shouldn't take the events of one Star Wars film in relation to any other? That's asinine.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:19
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Irony Be My Shield posted:When you just randomly declare that toxic masculinity doesn't exist out of the blue (as you did last time) you reveal your actual motivation, which is to argue that feminists are wrong and male behaviour is fine. This (nonsensical) semantic argument you fall back on when challenged is just a figleaf. when you randomly declare things though, that's just dope
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Aug 31, 2018 01:21
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jivjov posted:So the films aren't canonical to one another? Episode V isn't in the same continuity as Episode IV? They all exist in a complete vacuum and we shouldn't take the events of one Star Wars film in relation to any other? You keep bringing this up, and it finally struck me what's so strange about it: you're basically a Christian fundamentalist arguing that if you don't believe in God, then there's no reason to be good and no reason not to act evilly. If canon (God) doesn't exist, then everything is meaningless.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:23
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Raccooon posted:Eh, makes sense to me to have canon be what the owners of the media say it is as a clear cut off. Otherwise, fans just argue over each others head canon. You are free to have whatever head canon you want. Anybody can declare their interpretation "official." If the author of that interpretation has a close relationship to the author of the work, their viewpoint can yield insight that an unrelated interpreter would not. Nevertheless, both the original work and its commentary only have meaning when read. When you are talking about something fictional, the idea "there are no facts, only interpretations" is applicable in a more literal way than when that idea is applied to reality. What you call "arguing about headcanons" is actually just the discussion of art, and it's fun.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:24
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jivjov posted:So the films aren't canonical to one another? Episode V isn't in the same continuity as Episode IV? They all exist in a complete vacuum and we shouldn't take the events of one Star Wars film in relation to any other? The relationship between Episode IV and Episode V would still exist even if there were nobody from Disney to say that they were related. The relationship would even still exist if somebody from Disney outright said that they specifically don't exist in the same continuity. That is because the relationship between those two films is based on their respective contents, not on a separate work that calls them related.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:25
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i'm a star wars gnostic, god (lucas) existed but abandoned us and left us with the evil world of the demiurge (disney) idk where jesus fits into this canon yet
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Aug 31, 2018 01:26
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Bongo Bill posted:The relationship between Episode IV and Episode V would still exist even if there were nobody from Disney to say that they were related. The relationship would even still exist if somebody from Disney said that they don't exist in the same continuity. That is because the relationship between those two films is based on their respective contents, not on a separate work that calls them related. Its almost like the two films are in the same continuity or something.............................................
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Aug 31, 2018 01:26
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Brother Entropy posted:i'm a star wars gnostic, god (lucas) existed but abandoned us and left us with the evil world of the demiurge (disney) Jesus is probably rian if you like rian, and idk who if you don't like rian. Mark hamill maybe
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Aug 31, 2018 01:27
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Bongo Bill posted:Anybody can declare their interpretation "official." If the author of that interpretation has a close relationship to the author of the work, their viewpoint can yield insight that an unrelated interpreter would not. Nevertheless, both the original work and its commentary only have meaning when read. Yep and if we say the media owner is the definer of canon then its clear cut for everyone involved.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:27
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Really it should just be the movies are canon and everything else is jerk off fan material.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:28
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No Mods No Masters posted:Jesus is probably rian if you like rian, and idk who if you don't like rian. Mark hamill maybe rian is...okay. maybe if his trilogy ends up more solid than tlj then he'll fit
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Aug 31, 2018 01:28
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jivjov posted:Its almost like the two films are in the same continuity or something............................................. Canon and continuity are different things. A canon is a list of works and an affirmation that they are mutually supplementary. Continuity is the part of the illusion created by a film which causes the reader to perceive (falsely) the existence of a consistent "space" governed by causality, and which may even be perceived through multiple works.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:29
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Brother Entropy posted:rian is...okay. maybe if his trilogy ends up more solid than tlj then he'll fit Honestly Rian was given crap to work with from TFA. People get mad at TLJ but they should be mad at TFA. It will be the most forgettable of the Star Wars movies.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:32
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Raccooon posted:Honestly Rian was given crap to work with from TFA. People get mad at TLJ but they should be mad at TFA. It will be the most forgettable of the Star Wars movies. oh yeah absolutely, that's why i'm cautiously optimistic about him getting a clean slate with his trilogy
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Aug 31, 2018 01:34
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Brother Entropy posted:oh yeah absolutely, that's why i'm cautiously optimistic about him getting a clean slate with his trilogy If nothing else, having a separate story should free up the expectations on how to handle Luke, etc. He really was in a no-win scenario. If Luke walks out as the conquering hero from moment one, it undermines his own disappearance and the ending of RotJ. Playing it like it played out pissed off people who just wanted flashy action scenes and couldn't handle "their" character being sad.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:39
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It still blows my mind that Disney started a new trilogy with no idea where it was going. No planning at all, like what? How do you not plan out your story from the beginning?
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Aug 31, 2018 01:42
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