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No one commented on my edit to my previous post which in my eyes is the entire crux of the issue re: what the biggest exploit actually is To me, this just reeks of, I don't want to say privilege but, like.. greed? I don't know man, it's ultimately a game, take a fuckin risk, make a guess, try to have fun. We have IR, we have taxi squads, we have ample ways and opportunities to create cap space and now we want this too? Seems entirely excessive to me. The FA list is current, everyone's budgets are current, you should have an excellent idea of what will be available to you and a general range of what it'll cost. If you value the guys currently on your roster over that, well then that's your prerogative. Dropping guys in the middle of an auction to manufacture cap space kinda negates the reason to have an auction in the first place, if we want to do that, we should just go back to blind bidding which we already know is a disaster Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 00:13
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Zauper posted:To the second - everyone is limited by their $100 annual FAAB budget. No. Everyone has the same buying power of the $100 FAAB budget, but each owner is limited by their available cap space. If I go into a draft knowing that both you and I need a WR and you have $25 in cap space and I have $60, I know that I can reasonably outbid you for anyone that I would want and still have some money to tool around with. Now 6 picks in, I've spent $15 on a QB, and suddenly you have $50 in cap space and I have $45. That's just shady tbh. If you wanted the space, you should've cut the guy before the draft.
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Aug 31, 2018 00:26
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I suspect it comes down to something like "if I can get gronk I'm dropping my TE2 so I can draft another FA, but if I don't get gronk I'm keeping him" kind of thinking. Which is fair enough and understandable to want to be able to do that. But there's just more to it than that, and we have to be cognizant that for example one owner has a full roster and won't bother to be here and another owner can't be here and has to try and set up autodrafting rules for an auction which is hard enough, and still other owners (like me) have like one or two slots and are gonna be annoyed if you drop a guy they would have put in that slot but they wasted a pile of faab money filling it already... it's just messy and I feel not really in the spirit of the thing. The more I think of it the less I'm neutral about it.
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Aug 31, 2018 00:29
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I would argue that if you're going into an FA auction with both A) Enough cap space to have a reasonable shot at Gronk (with the added bonus of already being able to easily see everyone's roster and cap space) and B) a rostered TE2, then you're actually doing a really bad job managing your budget and perhaps you'd like to relinquish ownership of your team to someone who knows what they're doing 
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Aug 31, 2018 00:33
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Leperflesh posted:I suspect it comes down to something like "if I can get gronk I'm dropping my TE2 so I can draft another FA, but if I don't get gronk I'm keeping him" kind of thinking. Aren't those guys that are autobidding or not here just as screwed if I (like teemu) drop a player now? They are just as unable to plan around it. If that was a concern, there should have been an actual roster lock at some point. Dropping a player that you prefer now is no different from doing it in the first faab cycle. I may not be able to make it. Sick, wife is sick, putting the baby to sleep at auction time etc. Teemu: your argument runs into the same issue as leper's. If you want people to not game the system, you shouldn't be trying to - or applying your motives to me  . If I wanted cap space to compete for players, I'd drop expensive players now. It's all about roster slots. You should be able to take rookie flyers to fill out your roster, and you can't do that if you can't make the drops that make sense during the FA auction based on what you're winning with this draft order. Beyond that, again, it's the same as the actual NFL. Sign Jordy? Cut Crabtree. Sign Grant? Cut him for medical reasons to sign Crabtree instead because a better option is available.quote:I don't know man, it's ultimately a game
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Aug 31, 2018 01:15
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There should be a lock before the auction, agreed. Next year we should have it, probably like 24 hours.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:40
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Next year just combine FAAB and remaining cap dollars and implement a cut penalty of something like 65% (or lower that was just a random number) that applies back to their cap number to keep people from dropping and rebidding. No one is going to cut Gronk (say at $55 bid) get penalized $35.75 and then try to win him back for under $20. It eliminates all that and forces people to be more thoughtful with their lineup
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Aug 31, 2018 01:49
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Alfalfa posted:Next year just combine FAAB and remaining cap dollars and implement a cut penalty of something like 65% (or lower that was just a random number) that applies back to their cap number to keep people from dropping and rebidding. Can't reasonably add cut penalties without either giving people a free period to cut or restarting the league.
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Aug 31, 2018 01:54
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Zauper posted:Can't reasonably add cut penalties without either giving people a free period to cut or restarting the league. Yah. After the season ends and before MFL rolls over you can cut whoever you want. Then when MFL rolls over into 2019 implement cut penalty.
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Aug 31, 2018 02:44
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OK everyone thanks for auctioning. Please try not to do any huge messy moves for the next like 12 hours so we can make sure all the faab budgets are adjusted, all the caps are right, and then we'll be into the regular season and all should be well. Alfalfa posted:Yah. After the season ends and before MFL rolls over you can cut whoever you want. Then when MFL rolls over into 2019 implement cut penalty. Cut penalty is an interesting twist. It bears some thought.
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Aug 31, 2018 03:44
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is it okay to enter waiver bids now?
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Aug 31, 2018 04:16
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tremble before my mighty draftZauper posted:Aren't those guys that are autobidding or not here just as screwed if I (like teemu) drop a player now? They are just as unable to plan around it. If that was a concern, there should have been an actual roster lock at some point. Dropping a player that you prefer now is no different from doing it in the first faab cycle. TBF what I dropped was back end roster stuff that I've been trying to vocally trade and I only did it because I forgot what the roster size limit was and needed two spots. I wasn't actually at the draft so I don't know if either guy was claimed, but I doubt it. I was also the only person with enough cap space to use my entire FAAB. So if I dropped guys no one wanted and didn't gain anything re: cap space from it, I'm not really applied to what I'm talking about. That said I'm also not really referring to you specifically, Zaup, just really pointing out what I see as the real problem using a royal you. In all fairness and honesty, I do think a 24 roster lock is absolutely the way to go from here and I am 100% putting that forward as something on the docket for 2019. And if that were in place I'd hope that i'd've had the presence of mind to make those drops yesterday Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 04:18
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Stevie Lee posted:is it okay to enter waiver bids now? Sure, the next waivers isn't till wednesday though, so there's no rush.
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Aug 31, 2018 05:46
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Rishard Matthews changed to $4. All Blind Bid dollar amounts have been adjusted.
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Aug 31, 2018 12:40
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Spermy Smurf posted:Rishard Matthews changed to $4. Can you shove Arden Key back on my team plz
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Aug 31, 2018 13:01
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Done. I cant add/drop or waiver claim anything. None of my winning auctions show in my team list anywhere but the Roster page.
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Aug 31, 2018 13:46
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Whalers, fix your cap issues. You screwed up when taxi'ing people last night after the draft.
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Aug 31, 2018 16:35
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That was fuckin fast. Good work.
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Aug 31, 2018 16:41
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OK so nobody can drop auctioned players because we have a general league-wide rule that you can't drop a player you acquire via free agency or auction or draft for 24 hours (you can drop traded players immediately but that's it). There's an issue blocking putting in waiver transactions that we're looking into. Waivers next run next wednesday so we have a few days to get it unfucked. If we ever do another auction in this league I think we need to use a third-party auction site. There's a mechanism for importing auction results so we can do that. Because holy poo poo is MFL's auction software not good, like good god drat. I apologize to everyone for having to put up with that shitshow. Hopefully everyone go to fairly bid. As for the salary cap, spermy keeps being confused so I'm going to reiterate it one more time: Using MFL's rules we enforce a "soft cap". We do that because MFL does not allow you to draft, waiver, or trade players directly to or from your IR or Taxi slots. But our league rules permit that. So we allow you to bust your cap in those specific cases only. For example if you have $5 of cap space, you could trade for an injured player who has a $10 salary, you will bust your cap when the trade transaction goes through, and you would then immediately move that player onto your IR. What you cannot do is just blithely bust your cap for other reasons during the week. You are individually responsible for knowing your cap space and not busting it. It's not easy to do that during an auction when everything is going fast, so I'm very sympathetic, and that's why the penalty when you do this is based on the assumption it was a mistake... you just have to roll back whatever transaction caused you to bust your cap. IR players apply half their salary to your cap, and taxi players apply none. Does that make sense to everyone? Any confusion? We're in the final week of preseason, now is the time to clear up any questions and problems before we start with our real matchups. I'm excited about another year of fantasy football and I hope you all are too.
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Aug 31, 2018 16:57
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Leperflesh posted:As for the salary cap, spermy keeps being confused so I'm going to reiterate it one more time: Thanks for this. That explains the Long Island thing, but this is what I was trying to say during the draft. Balls of Fury was fine. He was perfectly in line with his salary cap. He had to move a guy to his taxi squad is all. It shouldn't have been doom and gloom. Just a "you're done, fix your poo poo" and it's all good. I am still not sure why we swapped players and salaries.
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Aug 31, 2018 18:59
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Spermy Smurf posted:Thanks for this. That explains the Long Island thing, but this is what I was trying to say during the draft. because he said he didn't want to taxi any of his guys I think.
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Aug 31, 2018 19:34
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Too drat bad? Watch your bidding then? Taxi a guy because you did it. He could drop him in 24hrs so not a huge deal anyway. A steal couldn't have taken effect before then. I thought the soft cap was turned on for the draft and forgot to turn back off for Long Island's cap issue or something. That was my confusion.
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Aug 31, 2018 19:44
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The thing is, and this is nitpicking, but: you do not get to first win a bid that busts your cap, and second move a different guy to taxi to make room (or drop players or make trades or move guys to IR). That's not the same thing as winning a bid on a taxi-able guy who you then move to taxi. The soft cap is a concession to MFL's limitations which require acquired players to hit your bench: it's not a freedom to just shuffle guys as you please after you bust your cap. So balls was strictly obeying our rules by requesting to back out an inadvertant cap-busting transaction. See rule 8.4 and especially 8.4.3. We did not as commissioners discuss the situation and agree that Balls could just taxi a guy. Secondarily, we do not force people to taxi guys. Granted we have not been super clear but I think taxi squad players are eligible to be stolen any day now (see below) so it is not a consequence-free action. Offering to allow a taxi move might be a concession to the moment - balls could have taxid a guy seconds before making a winning bid and that would be fine - but it's his option and shoving guys onto taxi squad has never been a penalty we've codified or discussed. All that aside and notwithstanding: Rules issue: our taxi squad rules say "at any time up to 72 hours before a player's team is scheduled to play" which technically means like, all summer long. We discussed this before and I don't think we codified a proper rule: we need to define, in the league rules, the first day on which taxi squad theft becomes possible. It should probably be something like the sunday or monday before the opening game (which is thursday, september 6th). Presently, with this value undefined, it's totally reasonable for Balls to not want to expose certain rookies to the taxi squad theft system. Unless someone objects, I suggest we pick a date that always occurs after our rookie & free agent drafts, and probably after the last preseason game, but substantially more than 72 hours before the week 1 games start, in which to officially turn on open-season for taxi squad theft. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 19:56
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Yeah that makes sense. I was thinking that he could fix his poo poo so he should have. I did not consult the rules (obviously) so I understand doing it by the books. Day after week 4 preseason game gets my vote for taxi squad shenanigans. Open season starts that day since we should be drafted by then every single year?
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Aug 31, 2018 20:05
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Here are the rules from another one of my dynasty leagues where TS stuff is a big deal.quote:Section 2.6: Taxi Squad Claims Basically the only time taxi squad claims are closed, are from the start of the playoffs until MFL rolls over to the next year.
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Aug 31, 2018 20:06
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I've hesitated to define a tuesday to thursday window, because of thursday night games - we have a minimum 72 hours in advance window so you can claim a thursday night game player on monday night, if that's >72 hours before thursday night football, but no later. Also there are some saturday games each year so that window closes on wednesday, not thursday for those guys. (note the NFL avoids making teams play on monday and then thursday, so those players were eligible from sunday night after their previous games ended). But we should definitely define a start and end day for theft. I'm not sure we want theft during the offseason, because that's when the whole league pretty much shuts down from february to like august, people are out of touch, one or two owners drop out of the league, and frankly I'm personally burnt out on football by february and want nothing to do with it for a while. It helps that we do not do draft activity around the NFL draft like other dynasty teams. This is also the first year we've extended taxi eligibility to sophomores, so last year quite simply everyone on anyone's team lost taxi eligibility and squads were empty until the rookie draft anyway. Now that we have sophomore taxi eligibility we have to think about these things. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 20:21
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Leperflesh posted:I've hesitated to define a tuesday to thursday window, because of thursday night games - we have a minimum 72 hours in advance window so you can claim a thursday night game player on monday night, if that's >72 hours before thursday night football, but no later. Also there are some saturday games each year so that window closes on wednesday, not thursday for those guys. (note the NFL avoids making teams play on monday and then thursday, so those players were eligible from sunday night after their previous games ended). There is never going to be a perfect setting. For dynasty I like waivers being added Thursday morning and it's FA from then until Tuesday morning. In case a fluke injury happens and a guy is scrabling to fill his lineup. But TS claims only happen Tuesday - Thursday so you can't go steal players on taxi just to fill a one week hole if a fluke injury does happen. Waivers and TS claims need to be opposite of each other imo. You can either pay to grab someone off TS immediately or wait to see if your bid wins the waiver.
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Aug 31, 2018 20:30
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We have two waiver periods and no open free agency. I hate open free agency with a passion and am going to argue vehemently against it, always. It creates a situation where the first person to hear news and still be awake gets to grab a suddenly-relevant free agent, and that's inherently unfair. We just do not expect or even want the league to be giving advantage to people who can and will watch football news like a hawk all day and all night while other people who work, have families, and are otherwise engaged in the real world are put at a disadvantage. I also view taxi squad theft as a system intended to prevent owners from keeping on their taxi squads, players who are relevant and worth starting right now. The intent of the taxi squad is to stash developmental rookies for the long term, which is good for dynasty. When owners use it in that way, nobody will bother to steal from them because of the combined costs (hopefully, that's why we added them this year) plus the requirement to start that player. When owners take risks by putting startable players on taxi, they get the advantage of an extra roster slot at the risk of being stolen from. That's cool and good. But the waiver wire is for constant and regular churn of the end of your bench. And we have a saturday waivers, so if you have a hurt player from a game or even from practice, you generally have an opportunity to replace him from the wire before sunday games. You can gamble on a questionable player and not waiver a replacement, at your own risk: that means you don't need open bench slots to churn guys, which is again an advantage, but sometimes you are going to be unlucky, that questionable guy doesn't play, and now you missed the saturday waivers and have no remaining options short of a last-minute trade. The taxi squad theft system is not intended to be there to help you with that situation. That's how I see it, anyway. I'm aware other dynasty leagues see it differently, which is fine and cool.
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Aug 31, 2018 20:51
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I used to agree with you on point 1. But in this day and age where everyone has a smart phone and can get notified exactly when something breaking happens it’s different. Long gone is breaking news from local sports radio and you go grab someone before it makes the paper the next day. Besides if you aren’t active trying to find an edge then you especially shouldn’t be in a dynasty league (but that is just my opinion).
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Aug 31, 2018 21:05
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Alfalfa posted:I used to agree with you on point 1. But in this day and age where everyone has a smart phone and can get notified exactly when something breaking happens it’s different. I'm in pacific time zone. Eastern time zone people are always going to be up before me, and getting news 3 hours before me is an advantage. And when I get up I'm loving working. Sure I post on SA a lot, but sometimes I'm not posting because I have a job. I am not gonna constantly check my phone during NFL practice to find out if someone I own just pulled a hammy during break time. It's simply not true that everyone can reasonably hang on their phone and then compete to see who gets a waiver transaction in first. Everyone should be on an even playing field. Actively finding an edge means being better at evaluating players and matchups, not being better at being rude to your friends and families and risking your goddamn job just to improve your chances at a game. I'll be completely clear: this is non-negotiable for me. I will not play in an open free agency league. I did it before and it was alternately super frustratingly unfair, or put me at a point where my boss was questioning what was wrong with me that I wasn't getting work done. Never again.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:12
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That’s one extreme. I’m talking about open FA when teams aren’t practicing, someone shifts from Q to D or D to out and you grab anyone on a Saturday night or Sunday morning so you can have some type of starter. During the week I fully agree a waiver system needs to be in place. But just like a redraft, after waivers process it need to be FA the rest of the week and then reset. I think we are saying the same thing but both went to opposite ends of the extreme. I’ve also been drinking heavily this afternoon so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Aug 31, 2018 21:32
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We have saturday waivers for just that event, and last year on request we made the saturday waivers run later (it's now 11 am eastern) so owners could react to who was able to practice on saturday morning in advance of sunday games. And we get potentially relevant news at all times, not just in practice. Last week someone posted in the chat thread about alfred morris maybe being the starter in san fran (which turned out to be wrong, but that's beside the point) and several owners were able to immediately grab morris off waivers. If you happened to be busy at that moment you were potentially at a disadvantage to whoever was hanging around on forums at that specific hour. I'm very happy that in our league, if some coach drops a bombshell like that on some radio program at 8 am eastern, everyone in the league has an equal opportunity to put in a waiver claim for however much they think he's worth, without being advantaged by being in the right time zone and having newsfeeds plugged directly into their veins 24/7. I'm probably belaboring the point but it's because I'm really adamant about this and I've seen it in too many leagues and I think it's pretty much always detrimental. There is inevitably going to be one or more owners who due to their life circumstances just cannot keep up with that kind of hourly football grind and they are eventually going to get tired of missing out on those lucky grabs and will quit. I'd rather include them especially because I'm one of them. So we have a waiver transaction on wednesday, in advance of TNF, and another one saturday, in advance of SNF and MNF, and owners only have to read news and make decisions during two quite broad periods weekly (sunday to tuesday night, and wednesday morning to saturday morning). Even then I feel bad when someone is on vacation and misses out, but that probably cannot be helped.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:40
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That’s a long post to say everyone should get a participation trophy and those who care or pay more attention don’t get the benefit of their work/interest/whatever you call it. There should be a happy medium that still allows those who don’t care as much a 75% chance to compete against those who actively care. If someone wants an even playing field then they should find a less competitive league where everyone gets medals.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:45
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Yikes. man I'm really trying to stay friendly here and not call you out, but why did you join this league? You were here for a while, you've read our rules, none of this should be a surprise to you. We do not have open free agency, and as long as I'm in the league, we won't. You wanna call me a casual, go for it, but that is how it is.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:09
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Leperflesh posted:Yikes. I’m not trying to change anything honestly. I’m fine with it and every league is different. I thought we were just talking opinions on what is preferred.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:12
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Ok that's totally fair enough and you've got your position which I can at least understand. I know you're in a bunch of leagues, so you live and breathe fantasy football and you gain an advantage by doing so and that's OK if those other leagues like it that way. I tried to do things like that and in 2012-13 it had too great of an impact on my life. I enjoy having a reasonable limit to how much I need to mainline this poo poo and without it I'd have to just quit cold turkey.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:15
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Yeah boys I see both sides. This league absolutely frustrates me sometimes. But other times I wish my other leagues behaved like this one in some respects. We have half the owners really invested I would say. The rest is kind of a casual thing and that's fine. To me there is already the 75% advantage Alfalfa is talking about. Half the league doesnt trade, drops players without receiving 2nd round picks from other owners, and generally check out after playoffs. That's fine. That's the casual thing. A few of us are tards that spend way too much time doing FF related stuff. A lot of time. I like the waivers here. I did one that had a waiver period twice a week and then FirstComeFirstServed until the nearest kickoff. It was a shitshow where 3 of us consistently snapped up the backup RB who was apparently starting this week even though the starting RB was healthy last we knew. It was a huge advantage for me. This isnt that kind of league. It's a casual thing that I take waaaaay too serious and if I am gonna stay in this league I need to spend a lot less time on it.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:42
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I was at training/conference at my company HQ this week and one of the guys I've worked with for a long time mentioned that he used to do fantasy football. He was making spreadsheets, streaming multiple games on tv and his laptop, the whole works. It was all very, painfully familiar: exactly what I was doing just two years ago and to some extent last year too. He quit cold turkey a couple years ago. It was having an impact on his relationship, he admitted he was doing it during work, etc. He turned off the TV, quit all his leagues, and says he's much much happier for doing so. I don't want to have to quit cold turkey. This year, this league is my only league. I'm not gonna do the spreadsheet poo poo any more. I'm not gonna check twitter all the time. My family is having a birthday thing on sunday the 9th and I'm not even going to suggest that could we do it saturday instead, like I definitely would have done last year. I'm just determined not to let this dumb hobby take over my life as much as it used to. This league has IDP, taxi squads, it's dynasty, that seems plenty non-casual enough to me. And yeah, like Spermy said, those of us who engage regularly will definitely have an advantage even if we don't have to hover like a hawk over free agency to try and snipe the flavor of the week guy. But if no free agency makes us filthy casuals, so be it.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:48
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The other thing is that is kind of goes both ways. By not having free agents available, you have to plan in advance, not be lazy and do things at the last minute by grabbing stuff from FA like a filthy casual. So you have to stay on top of injury reports, whether you have a backup TE if yours isn't ready to go today, etc. By having short benches, there is plenty of up/down waiver bid action all season long. But in spite of demanding time/attention, it doesn't demand that you be watching everything 24/7.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:20
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Leperflesh posted:
This is a solid point. It's my only dynasty league with idp (shut up Alfalfa, that league is bullshit) and a good structure. I spent more time here because I like it.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:48
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