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kefkafloyd posted:Nikon's kind of huffing their own farts about how they're an optics company first and that it's putting optical design FIRST. And that's all well and good, but putting optical *design* first is kind of cart before the horse. That MTF chart may look pretty nice, but if it the build quality, fit, finish and QC aren't up to snuff, that super sharp design won't be worth much to a lot of consumers who end up with crappy copies of the pretty 50. And even at the higher than normal price for that lens, based on the first impressions I've looked into, it might be the only one out of the three that's even sort of worth it. But if as a consumer you can look forwards past the dismal initial lens selection, the ecosystem will get filled out fairly well in the next year+. Yeah, until then you're either going to be an established Nikon user with lots of lenses to adapt, or willing to live with limited focal length for a while as you wait/save up for something else. Let's say the lenses do end up being good; not a lot of variety and pretty expensive, but well-made and with a preponderance of copies able to perform to advertised specification. That would make the system about as good a deal as Sony FE, but then also it's looking like maybe the Z cameras are a little more robust, and snappy in use, than the Sony A's. Factor in that the Z6 is priced at a tier that's pretty competitive with the A7iii, and if you've got good F-mount glass to adapt, or can live with waiting out your favorite focal lengths to start rolling off the assembly lines, you may end up with something that's actually a better than the equivalent Sony offerings. TL;DR - the lens offerings suck right now, but the Z camera bodies look like they might be generally better (in value and usability) than the Sony equivalents.
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Aug 30, 2018 06:05
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If Nikon is intend to use Z mount to replace F mount its still missing any plan for consumer or even prosumer options. They really think people who start out in photography will pick up a D3400 and D5600 kit from Costco and will eventually upgrade to a Z system? No they are going to pick a mirrorless system. Nikon Z is basically doing free advertisement for Sony. There is nothing wrong with a cheap $200 fixed lens. It's not a loving dirty word. A $200 35mm/50mm is still 10 times better than an iphone.
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Aug 30, 2018 10:52
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SMERSH Mouth posted:And that's all well and good, but putting optical *design* first is kind of cart before the horse. That MTF chart may look pretty nice, but if it the build quality, fit, finish and QC aren't up to snuff, that super sharp design won't be worth much to a lot of consumers who end up with crappy copies of the pretty 50. I was being a bit dismissive of their attitude there, the point is that they're going to find a very small audience if this is the strategy they're going for. Nikon's hurting for money and their push for high-margin first is a way to keep the revenue coming in. quote:And even at the higher than normal price for that lens, based on the first impressions I've looked into, it might be the only one out of the three that's even sort of worth it. The Z bodies have a few gotchas that put them generally around 2015 level of performance compared to Sony, but this can be fixed with some iterations. Namely, Full time AF/AE is only possible at 5.5 FPS on both bodies (Going any faster requires locking either focus or exposure). Rolling shutter's kind of bad on video. You can only record log externally (but it is 10-bit log). Their new AF GUI needs a rethink. It doesn't have eye focus, which is the real killer feature for the kind of photographers that the Sony series is aimed after. The bodies, for the minor Nikon-isms added to them, are basically the same style as the Sony bodies. They resisted the urge to go retro but their hype was basically "We're doing something NEW here!" and unfortunately it's a really defensive more-of-the-same type of product with a Nikon coat of paint. People were expecting Nikon to come out of the gate without making some of the same mistakes that Sony did, and unfortunately, they stumbled. They're also not embracing adapters like Sony did (aside from FTZ) which will slow their roll as well. But there's a lot to be positive about them, in that their touchscreen interface (aside from the lack of touchpad focus) is very good and the bodies appear to be legitimately well built. But it's clear that Nikon didn't expect Sony to go all-in on the a7III, and they wound up making the same kind of mistakes that Sony is finally getting past, like weak battery life, single card slots, and wimpy buffers. Will Nikon iterate these and try to push them forward? It remains to be seen. I think they left the door wide open for Canon to attack Sony if Canon doesn't hold back. On the lens front, aside from the blank TBA slots, these are the known upcoming optics: 20mm f/1.8 24mm f/1.8 50mm f/1.2 58mm Noct 85mm f/1.8 70-200 f/2.8 24-70 f/2.8 14-24 f/2.8 14-30 f/4 I mean, that's a solid start for a system for the next two years, but it's nothing you can't get reasonably close to in another system. Maybe by the time this lineup is filled out, Nikon will have a unique value proposition. But you don't need the way oversized Z mount to do any of those except maybe the Noct.
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Aug 30, 2018 13:35
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Well the Z mount is about the same diameter as EF mount. Nikon probably wanted to make sure that they no longer had that disadvantage they’ve had with F mount. Nikon has stated that there will be a D5 style mirrorless sports pro body, looking at the lens roadmap a logical release date might be with the 70-200 f2.8 and 24-70 f2.8 zooms. They’ve also said that there will be cheaper ”non-S” lenses. I guess the ”S” is supposed to be their ”L” in Z mount lenses. Perhaps release of these will coincide with cheaper body options.
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Aug 30, 2018 14:39
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The oly pro lenses have such fun sharpness that even those sensor's pixel densities can't take advantage. I think anyone who buys into this system immediately will want that level of glass (if they are indeed that sharp) rather than having to upgrade a cheaper nifty 50 in 2 years.
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Aug 30, 2018 14:52
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Rumor has it that Panasonic are going to announce their own full frame system next month 
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Aug 31, 2018 15:13
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Wengy posted:Rumor has it that Panasonic are going to announce their own full frame system next month I read Canon might do one this fall as well so welcome to an overcrowded marketplace.
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Aug 31, 2018 15:20
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I think it’s the right thing to do; even as an avid M43 user I’ve been making eyes at the Sony system. Hope Olympus are on board.
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Aug 31, 2018 15:31
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We need a macro 4/3 system
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Aug 31, 2018 15:45
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It'll be a curved FF sensor to allow m43 image circles  making this up if you didn't realize
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Aug 31, 2018 15:47
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Canon Rumors posted:We finally have the full list of gear that Canon will announce on September 5, 2018. They've had previous rumors that suggested there's a "sexy" solution for the EF mount lenses for the new mirrorless system. People are speculating that EF lenses will mount natively on the R mount, and that the adapter listed is to mount R lenses on other things, or that the ND and PL mean it's neutral density and polarizing filters. https://www.canonrumors.com/heres-the-full-list-of-gear-canon-will-announce-on-september-5/
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Aug 31, 2018 16:02
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Canon finally ready to put EFM out of its misery? Good. Edit: am I reading it right, a 28-70 f/2 fullframe lens? tino fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 17:33
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If that Canon has dual card slots Nikon just lost the pro market for milc.
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Aug 31, 2018 17:58
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Hah and the X-T3 announcement on September 6. A lot of mirrorless going on.
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Aug 31, 2018 18:57
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I discovered something disappointing about the GX85. The EVF gets hosed wearing polarized sunglasses. Don't suppose anyone is doing OLED EVFs? I mean it's not the end of the world, it's just annoying.
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Aug 31, 2018 19:11
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Finger Prince posted:I discovered something disappointing about the GX85. The EVF gets hosed wearing polarized sunglasses. Don't suppose anyone is doing OLED EVFs? I mean it's not the end of the world, it's just annoying. the gx8 does.
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Aug 31, 2018 19:20
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Almost all mirrorless except the very cheapest are using OLED finders these days.
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Aug 31, 2018 19:41
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Finger Prince posted:I discovered something disappointing about the GX85. The EVF gets hosed wearing polarized sunglasses. Don't suppose anyone is doing OLED EVFs? I mean it's not the end of the world, it's just annoying. Shoot portrait, problem solved. 
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Aug 31, 2018 19:47
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I'm probably the only one thinking this way but honestly I like Oly's smaller sensor giving me better IS and longer reach rather than a big ol FF sensor that needs a bigger (and likely heavier) body. That said, I'm the guy who loves having just absurd amounts of reach and almost never shoots on the wide end, soooooo E: Hell, Olympus's entire niche has always been to have smaller/lighter bodies, going back to their old film SLRs. Suddenly abandoning that and going to FF would be really odd. DJExile fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 19:48
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I wonder if it’s maybe a varicam, did the rumors stay stills specifically? I could see them pushing out a larger sensor cinema camera.
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Aug 31, 2018 20:00
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I got a dent on the edge of my X100F lens cover and now the inner fuzzy lining is peeling. Are the generic $6 eBay replacements ok? I can't shoot portrait with my sunglasses.
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Aug 31, 2018 20:15
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:the gx8 does. Hmm, specs say "LCD live view", same as the GX85. GX9 is the same. Well looks like I'm pretty much stuck with funky viewfinder banding when it's bright enough for sunglasses for the time being, because a G9 is way out of budget for now.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:16
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Finger Prince posted:Hmm, specs say "LCD live view", same as the GX85. GX9 is the same. Well looks like I'm pretty much stuck with funky viewfinder banding when it's bright enough for sunglasses for the time being, because a G9 is way out of budget for now. I believe that's the back panel. /e- oh gx9 not g9. The gx9 is not as much of a 'flagship' as the gx8 was at release. More of an upgraded gx85 I believe which was a cheaper and smaller gx8. Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 31, 2018 |
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Aug 31, 2018 21:23
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Holy poo poo, between the Nikon Zed, Fuji X-T3, Panasonic full frame and this new Canon-R, I think I'm just gonna stand pat on buying anything camera related for a few months.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:11
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X-T3 pictures leaked and it has barely changed. Maybe I would even get silver if it doesn’t cost more.
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Aug 31, 2018 23:14
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It would be nice if the Panasonic FF can use m43 lens. Also 43rumors.com needs a new domain.
tino fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 01:12
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So the X-T3 is pretty much confirmed to have a 26MP sensor and probably a native ISO of 160, so seemingly pretty incremental increases in sensor performance, unless it's also going to be BSI. Maybe it will have internal 4:2:2. Certainly it will have Eterna. But if that's all, I'm going to be happy to hang on to my XT-2. I chose it over the E3 because of the better video specifications, but since I've started working on my first video project I've quickly learned that shooting 4K f-log is a pain in the rear end to grade and edit on my laptop. Everything just goes a lot more slowly. Instead, with the exception of some scenic establishing shots, I've switched over to 1080 and, honestly, just using the std/provia setting, H+0 S+0 Color -1, and...it looks really nice. Seems to capture a lot more detail and look more crisp than my old video camera (5DII), and moire is practically non-existent. I think I still am getting slightly better HD video image quality than I would've with the E3 or T20, just based on the dpreview video test scene comparison tool. But I'm not chomping at the bit to upgrade for additional 4K features.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:48
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Well poo poo, my X-T2 just developed a strange issue. Took it out today to do some location scouting and for some reason the exposure would change every other frame or so. And it seemed like it got worse the faster the shutter speed was. It was working fine prior to today which was really weird. I thought it might be lens related but it happens on both the 18-55 kit and 35 f/2. Did a firmware upgrade from 3.10 to 4.20 but that didn't change anything. And to add to it when it will take an 'incorrect' photo it will not trigger a flash as well. This only occurs in manual shutter or MS+ES mode. It sounds very similar to a bug that was found in an early firmware but it was supposedly fixed. The bit that's really weird is it had been working fine then just started doing it today.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:49
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SMERSH Mouth posted:So the X-T3 is pretty much confirmed to have a 26MP sensor and probably a native ISO of 160, so seemingly pretty incremental increases in sensor performance, unless it's also going to be BSI. Have I told you about my lord and savior, proxies in Premiere? Currently editing a wedding video with everything either shot in 4K/30 or 1080p/120, and my life got so much better after I rendered proxies overnight.
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Sep 1, 2018 02:39
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Canon Mirrorless has legit leaked apparentlyquote:Canon EOS R Specifications cheese fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 03:17
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Interesting Canon rumor turning out to be actually interesting? The end is nigh!
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Sep 1, 2018 04:08
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That's interesting... I sold my OG 5D and 24-70L to switch to the A7 not too long after it came out, but have been kicking around the idea of getting back into Canon recently because I'd like to pick up paid gigs, and the glass is so much more affordable. The A7 has been great for hobbyist use and I love using all manner of manual focus lenses on it, but the native Sony pro glass is really pricey (especially since it does't have literally decades of secondhand stuff available) and is basically just an A-mount lens with an FE adapter built in, so you lose a lot of the advantage of its small size.
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Sep 1, 2018 04:42
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Canon has 3 different adapters? One of them let you screw in a filter yourself? Another adopter that has aperture ring control on it?
tino fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 10:05
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I'm not surprised that they haven't gone for some really esoteric engineering solution to mount both short-flange-lenses and EF without an adapter. History has shown Canon prefer to start with a clean slate for going forward rather than limiting themselves by worrying about backwards compatibility. But from the leaks so far I'm not entirely sure what the R mount brings that EF-M doesn't.
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Sep 1, 2018 11:08
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The difference is Canon treat the R like Ivanka and EF-M like Tiffany, nobody knows she exist.
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Sep 1, 2018 11:58
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gently caress, I’m really nervous about the future of MFT now  Just when I’d fallen in love with the 12-100.
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Sep 1, 2018 12:01
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Wengy posted:gently caress, I’m really nervous about the future of MFT now Pretty sure that lens will keep working regardless of what camera companies do.
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Sep 1, 2018 12:18
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Ethics_Gradient posted:and is basically just an A-mount lens with an FE adapter built in, so you lose a lot of the advantage of its small size. Some lenses may have different exit pupil distances but the vast majority of FE lenses have glass in the space where a mirror box would be. There are still retro focal lenses because they may be easier or better to do at a certain price point. The 16-35 GM has some air gap at 35mm but the rear element goes back to the mount as it zooms, for example. No E-mount lens shares any optical design with an A-mount lens. The only lenses that are actually like that are the Sigma third-party SLR conversions, but they use native comms and not adapter comms.
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Sep 1, 2018 14:03
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Ethics_Gradient posted:Pretty sure that lens will keep working regardless of what camera companies do. Yeah but that’ll be pointless if companies stop making good MFT bodies. I’m about ready to replace my E-M1, but the current offerings from both companies are rather sobering.
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Sep 1, 2018 14:05
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Mirrorless digital camera lens rear elements can get closer to the sensor than they would be able to on a camera with a reflex mirror, but they can't get as close as 'mirrorless' (rangefinder, view, af p&s) film camera lenses. Light at the edge of the image circle on symmetrical wide-angle lenses like a Zeiss biogon or Schneider super angulon hits the sensor/film plane at a very steep angle, because the rear elements of those lenses are designed to almost touch the film. The glass surface of a digital sensor can't deal with light that's coming in at an almost perpendicular angle, so e.g. the 21mm super angulon for old film Leicas can't be used on the digital M's without inducing wild-rear end color smearing in the corners. The same goes for any old rangefinder wide-angle lens on any full frame mirrorless digital camera. Sony has supposedly been working on a curved sensor for a while now. That would allow for the use of lenses that almost touch the sensor, without the color smearing. Sony is still pumping out rx100's, which are 1" sensor cameras. If MFT can reclaim a decisive size and weight advantage over APSC mirrorless, companies like Olympus might still have a viable market segment. But what might happen going forward is a shift to more of a 'video-focused, stills-capable' approach. But it would be really cool if olympus continued to soldier with a focus on stills and we started to see more f/.95 & f/1 primes, and f/1.4 zooms.
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Sep 1, 2018 15:37
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