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subway transit systems should be flat-fare or better yet fare-free, and any city that’s charging based on distance is being regressive and lovely
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Sep 1, 2018 20:12
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*ding ding ding* don't police the point of entry and randomly check riders' tickets
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Sep 1, 2018 20:15
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speaking of Good NYC things: they got rid of forcing people to pay for phone calls in jail because that too is regressive and lovely. choice quote right here posted:“Now the gangs will definitely be able to continue to run their operations from inside the jails,” said Elias Husamudeen, the president of the correction officers’ union. “They will definitely be able to continue to communicate free of charge with the other members of their gangs who may not be in jail.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:17
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Jimmy Carter posted:also the Clipper Card system is such a piece of poo poo they’re replacing it after only 10 years of service. Among many other stupid things, if you add money to your card via a credit card on their website, it takes up to 5 business days for it to actually be loaded onto your card. i never understood how this works. there must be some idea of the balance kept on the card, because i doubt it validates with a central server every time you swipe, but there must be something centralized because otherwise how would it support adding value online at all? also i hadn't heard they were replacing it. is that just on the backend or does everyone need a new card?
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Sep 1, 2018 20:21
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muckswirler posted:*ding ding ding* Europe does tho, thy aggressively check the gently caress out of train tickets
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Sep 1, 2018 20:27
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rjmccall posted:i never understood how this works. there must be some idea of the balance kept on the card, because i doubt it validates with a central server every time you swipe, but there must be something centralized because otherwise how would it support adding value online at all? I think everyone's gonna need a new card unless they're keeping the NFC cards and payment pads, although I imagine there'd be some development in transitioning values to new cards The contracted solution right now is ending next year and 'Clipper 2' or whatever the MTC will call it will be replacing it's entire system by 2020
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Sep 1, 2018 20:30
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rjmccall posted:i never understood how this works. there must be some idea of the balance kept on the card, because i doubt it validates with a central server every time you swipe, but there must be something centralized because otherwise how would it support adding value online at all? if it's anything like oyster in london (itself an implementation of a system used in lots of places around the world), the store of value is on the card. there is a central server, but it pushes out updates of balance etc to all of the readers which update it when swiped. it's not immediate (can take up to 4 hours for remote readers on buses, which download the updates via wifi at the garage), but you can use the ticket machines at stations to update it if you need the credit right now. oyster does validate with a central server every time you swipe but not in realtime, the idea being that by the time your journey ends it's likely any fuckups will have been detected and pushed out to the readers so you get caught at the destination.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:33
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rjmccall posted:i never understood how this works. there must be some idea of the balance kept on the card, because i doubt it validates with a central server every time you swipe, but there must be something centralized because otherwise how would it support adding value online at all? if it's anything like the abomination accenture built up here in ontario it's a mix of balance stored on the card and fare terminals that are offline and updated by sneakernet nightly seriously. every single reader needs a new transaction list pushed to it every day to update card balances. if you add a balance online, then don't use your card for a month ~*poof*~ it's gone into the aether and you have to contact customer support.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:34
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rjmccall posted:i never understood how this works. there must be some idea of the balance kept on the card, because i doubt it validates with a central server every time you swipe, but there must be something centralized because otherwise how would it support adding value online at all? The balance is kept on the card and most/a lot of the readers operate in an offline mode where they synchronize fares and new card balances with Clipper's central servers only once they go into a service station. This means that if you add funds or a pass online the only way to get them on the card is to tag it to a terminal that was synced subsequently. Also they let card balances go negative because a lot of stations don't have add-fare machines and they'd trap people behind the fare gates.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:34
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Xaris posted:good thing, bart does neither. tho mostly out of extreme laziness than any altruistic policy not trying to be a dick but bart deffo has turnstiles that require cash on the ticket to let you in euro ticket checkers are annoying but for sure better than having to enter a controlled area WRT ease of use
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Sep 1, 2018 20:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjuVVlSgYLc
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Sep 1, 2018 20:38
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muckswirler posted:not trying to be a dick but bart deffo has turnstiles that require cash on the ticket to let you in They may require cash on the ticket but they system doesn't know where you are getting off so it can not know how much cash you should have. You can enter bart with $2 on the ticket, take a $10 ride, and leave the station because they allow negative balances.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:38
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that's correct for a clipper card but not correct for the paper printed ticket unless things have changed recently? with the printed ticket you either add money to the card (and the turnstile will let you out), talk to the gate agent if one is there and beg for forgiveness, or you jump over the turnstile and hope a bart cop doesn't see you (if fail the paper bag test)
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Sep 1, 2018 20:45
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ah no, you're correct! looks like they actually locked down the paper tickets years ago, I hadn't kept up.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:51
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test driving the new Tesla https://vtt.tumblr.com/tumblr_pd9pi5tjjr1slstjg.mp4
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Sep 1, 2018 21:02
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Jimmy Carter posted:subway transit systems should be flat-fare or It would be cool if the whole system was free but the subway literally wouldn't be able to handle that many passengers (they made a really bad choice to only allow for one track in each direction when digging the tunnels originally) so it would probably be better to only make it free for people with lower incomes or something. In my dream city the subway would work and it would be free for everyone I guess, though.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:24
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mystes posted:(they made a really bad choice to only allow for one track in each direction when digging the tunnels originally) ah, the boring company insane cost savings infrastructure hack.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:27
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President Beep posted:ah, the boring company insane cost savings infrastructure hack. also the london cost savings hack lol
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Sep 1, 2018 21:29
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fishmech posted:also the london cost savings hack lol also the San Francisco cost savings hack and well eveywhere
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Sep 1, 2018 21:31
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well, hell, we can’t spend a little more money to easily accommodate future capacity! that’s just stupid!
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Sep 1, 2018 21:34
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empty tunnels might be used for urban youth supergang lairs!
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Sep 1, 2018 21:35
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President Beep posted:well, hell, we can’t spend a little more money to easily accommodate future capacity! that’s just stupid! doubling the diameter of the tunnels increases the construction costs by quadruple - it's almost always cheaper to invest in longer and/or more frequent trains than using larger/additional bores unless you want to run express services.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:41
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goddamnedtwisto posted:doubling the diameter of the tunnels increases the construction costs by quadruple - it's almost always cheaper to invest in longer and/or more frequent trains than using larger/additional bores unless you want to run express services. you do want to run express services though. there's no good reason not to do so because it makes your system far more flexible just as interconnection does.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:44
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It really sucks in DC because not only is the capacity limited under normal conditions, since they only have two tracks in the tunnels they have to make trains in opposite directions alternate with each other in order to be able to do maintenance (and they need a lot of maintenance). I think some other systems like New York also have more ability to reroute trains onto other routes when necessary, but in DC this is generally impossible due to the limited number of lines and also because I think most of the lines aren't even physically connected with each other. Of course, once everything's in place it's basically impossible to fix.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:45
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goddamnedtwisto posted:doubling the diameter of the tunnels increases the construction costs by quadruple fair enough. I’d wager it’s still cheaper than having to do a retrofit expansion though, if needed.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:48
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heavily contributing was the fact they backed off automation after a bad accident, significantly lowering overall capacity, reliability, and travel time. also there's been a subtle campaign to starve metro of funds, so maintenance was deferred for about a decade now and is only now playing catch-up. standard republican bullshit. it leads to websites like these and metro's current reputation and performance is abysmal compared to how it was when i was a kid https://ismetroonfire.com/ http://www.dcmetrometrics.com/outages Bhodi fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 21:49
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the worst part is people all love to follow and quote @unsuckdcmetro who is an rear end in a top hat suburban libertarian who doesn't use it and just wants it privatized so his money doesn't go to it
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Sep 1, 2018 21:52
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Yeah that's the standard trick. Point out problems and then use them as an excuse to cut funding. Repeat until you can shut it down.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:55
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President Beep posted:fair enough. I’d wager it’s still cheaper than having to do a retrofit expansion though, if needed. the jubilee line extension cost £3.3bn of which £2.5bn was civils (including the stations) - let's be generous and say doubling the tunnels would have added £2bn. increasing the trains to 9 carriages and switching to moving-block signalling, allowing 36 trains per hour, which doubled the capacity across the entire line, not just the extension, cost just under £1bn including the extension work at the older stations.
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Sep 1, 2018 22:06
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goddamnedtwisto posted:the jubilee line extension cost £3.3bn of which £2.5bn was civils (including the stations) - let's be generous and say doubling the tunnels would have added £2bn. Line remains inflexible due to lack of tracks and track connections
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Sep 1, 2018 22:20
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fishmech posted:Line remains inflexible due to lack of tracks and track connections lol connections, there's basically no interoperability between underground lines (apart from the subsurface ones) a hundred years after the network was unified. (slightly more seriously there was once common running between, e.g., the central and what became the piccadilly line but the complexities this led to in the timetable and the homogeneity of the journeys (i.e. very few people were actually making a direct journey anyway on the common sections) meant it made more sense to give over the common sections to a second and third line. i wonder if it makes more sense in american cities because they tend to be more logically laid out in general?)
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Sep 1, 2018 22:36
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goddamnedtwisto posted:lol connections, there's basically no interoperability between underground lines (apart from the subsurface ones) a hundred years after the network was unified. right that's the issue. not even a line like the jubilee, despite its late date of construction, hooked into any existing line besides iirc sharing a storage yard connection. Nor did it provide opportunity for a future line to hook into it. and like, in the nyc case there are several possible routings that haven't been used normally for decades. But you use that track to handle rerouting for emergencies and major track work. And a future expansion may tie in later as well (some of them were discontinued for 40 years before reuse)
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Sep 1, 2018 22:51
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Jimmy Carter posted:speaking of Good NYC things: they got rid of forcing people to pay for phone calls in jail because that too is regressive and lovely. yeah, this year there has been a dramatic shift in the kind of rates states and large cities are asking for dont know if its because they dont need the money as much anymore or if theyre feeling the heat from voters
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Sep 2, 2018 00:43
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Bart and DC metro are pretty much identical and have identical user experience
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Sep 2, 2018 01:39
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  http://fakeisthenewreal.org/subway/ i just mainly like the maps
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Sep 2, 2018 01:54
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lancemantis posted:Bart and DC metro are pretty much identical and have identical user experience i havent been to dc but i hope they dont have as much racist stabbings, unarmed black men shootings, and constant piss covered trains and homeless that light up a cigarette inside
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Sep 2, 2018 01:59
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lancemantis posted:Bart and DC metro are pretty much identical and have identical user experience Xaris posted:i havent been to dc but i hope they dont have as much racist stabbings, unarmed black men shootings, and constant piss covered trains and homeless that light up a cigarette inside "identical*"!!!
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Sep 2, 2018 02:08
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Hello old friend
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Sep 2, 2018 02:42
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drr drrr drr
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Sep 2, 2018 02:43
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the dc subway escalators sing while the sf ones are just silently choked with poo
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Sep 2, 2018 03:56
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