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SMERSH Mouth posted:Sony is still pumping out rx100's, which are 1" sensor cameras. If MFT can reclaim a decisive size and weight advantage over APSC mirrorless, companies like Olympus might still have a viable market segment. But what might happen going forward is a shift to more of a 'video-focused, stills-capable' approach. But it would be really cool if olympus continued to soldier with a focus on stills and we started to see more f/.95 & f/1 primes, and f/1.4 zooms. Actually, I wonder if Fuji and Panasonic are not better positioned in some way. The will have 2 camera sensor formats that are significantly different, which will let them design differently. Sony seems like its confused about how it wants to proceed with semi compatible APS-C and Full Frame lineups. The A6500 and A7III really are not all that different size wise, and I've seen some comparison videos that make it clear that its pretty hard to tell their images/video apart other than more obliterated bokeh. And Canon's EOS-M seems like a dead format walking. Is it more advantageous to have 2 sensor formats that are consecutive in size and that can kind of share some lenses, or two formats that are very different with different lens systems to cover more bases?
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Sep 1, 2018 16:36
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cheese posted:Is it more advantageous to have 2 sensor formats that are consecutive in size and that can kind of share some lenses, or two formats that are very different with different lens systems to cover more bases? I think it would depend on the market and pricing. I feel Fuji is kinda approaching a plateau where their higher end pricing is starting to hit the lower end pricing of the full-frame cameras, and they're not offering that much more. Quite a number of people I know have said they'd rather get the Sony A73 over the Fuji XH1, because they're at the same price. And I've heard from the Fuji people locally that the XH1 and GFX aren't selling well.
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Sep 1, 2018 17:01
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alkanphel posted:I think it would depend on the market and pricing. I feel Fuji is kinda approaching a plateau where their higher end pricing is starting to hit the lower end pricing of the full-frame cameras, and they're not offering that much more. Quite a number of people I know have said they'd rather get the Sony A73 over the Fuji XH1, because they're at the same price. And I've heard from the Fuji people locally that the XH1 and GFX aren't selling well.
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Sep 1, 2018 17:09
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SMERSH Mouth posted:Sony is still pumping out rx100's, which are 1" sensor cameras. If MFT can reclaim a decisive size and weight advantage over APSC mirrorless, companies like Olympus might still have a viable market segment. But what might happen going forward is a shift to more of a 'video-focused, stills-capable' approach. But it would be really cool if olympus continued to soldier with a focus on stills and we started to see more f/.95 & f/1 primes, and f/1.4 zooms. I wish Olympus would do something similar to the Fuji F2.0 WR lenses. Fighting on f-stops feels like it runs counter to the size advantage of MFT.
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Sep 1, 2018 17:32
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I've been shooting on Panasonic mirrorless since the GF1, which I had with the original f1.7 20mm pancake. Now I've got a 15mm and 42.5mm f1.7 lenses and a 60mm f2.8 macro. Granted I've never been a super-tele shooter, but I've never wanted for aperture with m4/3 lenses. And even then, if I wanted a paperweight or makeshift projectile weapon and even more bokehs, Voigtlander will happily sell me any number of f0.95 manual focus primes. It seems like a made up problem that you can't bench-race your smallest f-stop against the smallest f-stop from some other manufacturer.
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Sep 1, 2018 18:22
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I have always felt XH1 is a temporary model, it will merge back to XT line. Has anyone in this thread brought one yet? Fujifilm being the oldest photography hardware company that offers solutions from top to bottom, IMO its goal is not to gain as much mirrorless marketshare as possible, but to always have stake in the game, in the current generation or the future generation. M43 is still a better selfie vlogging solution compare to other formats. IMO Panasonic should double down on a vlogging model that has front facing screen, info panel and everything can be controlled by one hand.
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Sep 1, 2018 19:18
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tino posted:I have always felt XH1 is a temporary model, it will merge back to XT line. Has anyone in this thread brought one yet? I disagree. I think the XH series will be their tank, share a sensor, but have IBIS. I have the XH1 from the XT2 and love it, but it is NOT for everyone.
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Sep 1, 2018 19:25
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scaevola posted:I wish Olympus would do something similar to the Fuji F2.0 WR lenses. Fighting on f-stops feels like it runs counter to the size advantage of MFT. Finger Prince posted:Granted I've never been a super-tele shooter, but I've never wanted for aperture with m4/3 lenses. And even then, if I wanted a paperweight or makeshift projectile weapon and even more bokehs, Voigtlander will happily sell me any number of f0.95 manual focus primes. It seems like a made up problem that you can't bench-race your smallest f-stop against the smallest f-stop from some other manufacturer. I think right now the consumer camera sensor space is reaching a plateau. The X-T3's sensor improvement is incremental, gaining a fraction of an EV in base ISO and two whole megapixels. MFT seems to have run up against a pixel density limitation at 20MP. Maybe they could squeeze out 22MP sensors in the next year, but for Fuji or MFT to continue to offer iterative improvements in their new cameras, they might have to bet on Sony forking over the BSI or stacked CMOS sensors. They have done this for the D850 and the Z6/7, but not for any of their smaller customers like Oly or Fuji. But the little guys have more control over their lens lineups. Offering newer, faster, sharp premium glass is a way to build an upgrade path if new camera sales are in a slump because older cameras are holding their value better.
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Sep 1, 2018 20:04
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Anyone out there have experience with the Sony RX0? I need a small action-style cam for 1st person POV shots (think: Breaking Bad). I considered getting a newer GoPro but really don't like their "action cam" fisheye and also want some professional-looking shots with bokeh/depth of field.cheese posted:Holy poo poo, between the Nikon Zed, Fuji X-T3, Panasonic full frame and this new Canon-R, I think I'm just gonna stand pat on buying anything camera related for a few months. Oh gently caress yeah I know. It sounds like Canon and Panny are finally bringing the fight to Sony. melon cat fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 20:05
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alkanphel posted:And I've heard from the Fuji people locally that the XH1 and GFX aren't selling well.
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Sep 1, 2018 21:51
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You can choose non fisheye and even zoom in a little bit with the new GoPro 6. RX0 reviews make it sound like an unfinished product.
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Sep 1, 2018 23:17
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One thing that puzzles me about the Canon R mount. It's 20mm flange / 54mm diameter is possibility going to make it impossible to ever use R lenses on the M mount bodies with 18mm flange and 47mm diameter. Even if you could make a 2mm thick adapter you've got lenses who's rear elements might be too large to fit in to the smaller diameter. If we assume there's an eventual future where DSLR and EF are phased out by the continued rise in mirrorless (and you to assume Canon planned that far ahead when assessing technical solutions), then that starts to leave the EOS-M range in the cold for access to the full range of lenses. It seems unlikely to me that Canon will start offering something like the 100-400 in both mounts, and even if they did it would leave people needing to own two lenses if they own both an EOS-M and EOS-R cameras. Unless there's some detail lost in the fog of rumours, it suggest to me that the future development won't be EOS-M for APS-C and EOS-R for Full Frame, but EOS-R for both serious APS-C & full frame crowd, with EOS-M developed as a mainstream lightweight system. But then that sounds like a recipe for EOS-M dying a slow death by being the least loved child (see EF-S).
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Sep 1, 2018 23:49
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I wonder if Canon will do anything with mirrorless APSC besides letting EF-M die a slow death. I know the m series is popular in Asia, but with the full frame mirrorless market about to heat up significantly, prices for camera poo poo going up in general, but entry-level FF mirrorless becoming relatively cheaper, and the basic consumer-level camera market shrinking, I wouldn't be totally surprised if we stop seeing many more EF-M or (non-FE) E-mount lenses or bodies coming out.
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Sep 2, 2018 00:11
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scaevola posted:I wish Olympus would do something similar to the Fuji F2.0 WR lenses. Fighting on f-stops feels like it runs counter to the size advantage of MFT. There's a ton of good small primes on MFT - 12/17/25/45 on the Olympus side, 14/15/20/25/45 on the Panasonic side. Hell, even the Olympus 75mm is small for what you get
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Sep 2, 2018 00:55
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tino posted:You can choose non fisheye and even zoom in a little bit with the new GoPro 6.  quote:RX0 reviews make it sound like an unfinished product.
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Sep 2, 2018 01:00
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alkanphel posted:And I've heard from the Fuji people locally that the XH1 and GFX aren't selling well.  That flys in the face of just about every other indicator at the moment. Also, fuji are releasing their medium format rangefinder soon - so the GF line is going to continue to grow.
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Sep 2, 2018 01:59
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curried lamb of God posted:There's a ton of good small primes on MFT - 12/17/25/45 on the Olympus side, 14/15/20/25/45 on the Panasonic side. Hell, even the Olympus 75mm is small for what you get Yes, and I love them all, but they're not weather resistant.
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Sep 2, 2018 02:47
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Yeast posted:
I remember there was a quote from someone in Olympus saying: "It's not that we're gaining market share, it's that the entire market is shrinking." So depending on how you reporting the statistics, you can make it look like you're doing ok - shareholders always want to see good news, after all.
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Sep 2, 2018 02:50
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Finger Prince posted:I've been shooting on Panasonic mirrorless since the GF1, which I had with the original f1.7 20mm pancake. Now I've got a 15mm and 42.5mm f1.7 lenses and a 60mm f2.8 macro. What is up lens lineup buddy? Sometimes I leave the 60mm at home, but the other two are always with me.
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Sep 2, 2018 02:59
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SMERSH Mouth posted:I wonder if Canon will do anything with mirrorless APSC besides letting EF-M die a slow death. I know the m series is popular in Asia, but with the full frame mirrorless market about to heat up significantly, prices for camera poo poo going up in general, but entry-level FF mirrorless becoming relatively cheaper, and the basic consumer-level camera market shrinking, I wouldn't be totally surprised if we stop seeing many more EF-M or (non-FE) E-mount lenses or bodies coming out.
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Sep 2, 2018 05:32
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Hey guys, I’m selling all of my Fuji gear if anyone is interested. It’s all up in the buy/sell thread. It was a tough decision because I had a lot of lenses and really loved the X-T2 but I feel like I’m not bringing it out much, stopped doing virtually any paid work because it was both soul crushing and I am not good with business stuff I guess. But I actually really miss my old X100. Did any of you drop an interchangeable lens camera to “downgrade” to a fixed lens or compact? I am really going to miss the 56 1.2 but I used that and the 23 1.4 the most so at least an X100 will have one of the two focal lengths I loved. Also any opinions about the various X100 models? I am half tempted to go for a bargain and get an original X100 again since I loved that camera so much but I don’t know if the AF and other improvements on the most recent X Trans is something I would miss too much. And I don’t really know about the S or T models. Would it be worth looking at any of those older models in between the F and the original in terms of a price to performance ratio?
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Sep 2, 2018 07:35
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rio posted:Hey guys, I’m selling all of my Fuji gear if anyone is interested. It’s all up in the buy/sell thread. It was a tough decision because I had a lot of lenses and really loved the X-T2 but I feel like I’m not bringing it out much, stopped doing virtually any paid work because it was both soul crushing and I am not good with business stuff I guess. But I actually really miss my old X100. I was toying with the idea of getting an OG X100 because one came up for sale near me relatively cheap - it's certainly a decent camera, but it does lack the XTrans sensor which I know a lot of Fuji shooters like, as well as the Classic Chrome setting which is also popular. OTOH the later ones are a bit more dear than what I'd be willing to pay for what'd ultimately just be an experiment at this stage.
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Sep 2, 2018 07:49
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Somebody found the pdf spec sheet for the R. It's got the same limitations that had The Internet writing off the Nikon Z - single card slot and a battery rating in the 300s. No IBIS. Video at least has 4K without a stupid format but probably with a heavy crop (it talks about supporting EF-S for 4K not 1080P, suggesting the video area for 4K is only ASP-C) but still no 120fps HD. It doesn't look like they've pulled any rabbits out of the hat so all the trolls and non-Canon fanboys will slag it off for exactly the same reasons as every other Canon. https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-r-full-specifications/ Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 10:50
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rio posted:Hey guys, I’m selling all of my Fuji gear if anyone is interested. It’s all up in the buy/sell thread. It was a tough decision because I had a lot of lenses and really loved the X-T2 but I feel like I’m not bringing it out much, stopped doing virtually any paid work because it was both soul crushing and I am not good with business stuff I guess. But I actually really miss my old X100. I think you’d miss the speed and other stuff from the 100f since you’re coming from the XT2. I almost sold my XT10 to simplify down to the 100f but ultimately decided I’d want the adapters and even then I was afraid I’d want more range at some point. Fuji just launched a big sale for lenses: https://www.fujirumors.com/big-fujinon-xf-lens-sales-started-full-list-of-savings/ I think I’ll go ahead and buy the 50 and probably the 16 (still debating the 16 vs the 10-24).
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Sep 2, 2018 12:58
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Cat Army
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Wengy posted:gently caress, I’m really nervous about the future of MFT now Keep shooting with it, it's a good lens and the EM1 is a good camera. If you keep worrying about what the latest and greatest gear is then you're never going to actually go out and use the poo poo you've got. you have a system that has autofocused, sealed f/1.2 primes. The 12-100 and the EM1mk2 sync up for some absurd like 6 stops of IS. Go put that to use.
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Sep 2, 2018 13:06
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Just when I’d fallen in love with the 12-100.
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The single card thing is a red herring. Look the CN duopoly has decided single card slot is good is enough for professional, you are going to take it and like it. Lack of IBIS is a big one. Canon probably had an high end model ready for launch but sent it back to drawing board because of IBIS from Z7. Regarding X100 models, you probably can find an used X100T pretty cheap. Better AF always helps. Unless you prefer Fuji's LCD color over the Xtran color, then go for the OG.
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Sep 2, 2018 13:26
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Wengy posted:Yeah but that’ll be pointless if companies stop making good MFT bodies. I’m about ready to replace my E-M1, but the current offerings from both companies are rather sobering. Listen I know that Olympus hasn't released a new EM camera in forever but I doubt MFT is going anywhere, I have a hard time imagining both Panny and Oly jumping ship to FF and leaving Fuji as the only go-to for high end crop sensor mirrorless. MFT has a pretty steady niche. Oly should be announcing something new soon anyways, probably an updated EM. It should hopefully be really good considering that it's going to get compared directly to the GH5/5s/G9. And yeah worst case scenario grab an EM1ii. You get dual IS, pixel shift, and 60 fps burst. You can shoot on that for years for almost anything.
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Sep 2, 2018 13:41
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Seriously I have a 300mm f/4 that's built like a tank and has a frankly silly amount of IS, the 40-150 f/2.8 has been through hell and back and keeps on truckin'. Between those two and the 25mm f/1.2 I basically never find myself wanting for anything else.
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Sep 2, 2018 15:02
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scaevola posted:Yes, and I love them all, but they're not weather resistant. Sorry, you're right about that! I really hope Oly adds some sealing in the V2 of those lenses. MFT could carve out a good niche with small, high-quality primes on one end and solid telephoto primes and zooms on the other, since it's easier to get good reach with the smaller sens
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Sep 2, 2018 17:14
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How do you guys feel about the Sony A7ii these days? I got a trade offer for my X-T2 from someone elsewhere and although I was really not wanting trades this one caught my eye because the A# models were always appealing. I mainly didn’t go with Sony and chose Fuji because of how much the shooting experience annoyed me with my old NEX5n. I liked the camera’s IQ at the time, loved adapting lenses (and honestly adapting my old lenses to a full frame mirrorless is really appealing to me) but the interface was really frustrating compared to the X series so I went all in with Fuji. I’ve heard that Sony fixed a lot of the issues from the NEX cameras though. Is the A7ii frustrating or cool and good?
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Sep 2, 2018 18:01
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rio posted:How do you guys feel about the Sony A7ii these days? I got a trade offer for my X-T2 from someone elsewhere and although I was really not wanting trades this one caught my eye because the A# models were always appealing. I mainly didn’t go with Sony and chose Fuji because of how much the shooting experience annoyed me with my old NEX5n. I liked the camera’s IQ at the time, loved adapting lenses (and honestly adapting my old lenses to a full frame mirrorless is really appealing to me) but the interface was really frustrating compared to the X series so I went all in with Fuji. Nice sensor and IS, but I would never trade an X-T2 for one if you appreciate and enjoy the act of shooting itself. It has a PASM dial and the Sony interface. I’d only do the trade if you want to convert a lot of old 35mm glass
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Sep 2, 2018 18:57
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Animal posted:Nice sensor and IS, but I would never trade an X-T2 for one if you appreciate and enjoy the act of shooting itself. It has a PASM dial and the Sony interface. My original plan was an X100 with the funds but I do have a lot of 35mm glass that I used on my NEX. Fuji glass was so good that I bought a ton of it but going back to the adapting with those lenses on full frame seems neat, and I even already have the e-mount adapters (assuming that they work on full frame e mount?). I am not a huge fan of PASM at all but the adapted lenses would have aperture rings so that would help a bit. Tough decision since I wasn’t planning on a trade and have never shot with a Sony since the NEX cameras. Did they fix the mess of a menu system that they used to have?
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Sep 2, 2018 19:19
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That move doesn't make sense to me given the reasoning you cited. If you aren't bringing out your XT2 why would you bring out the A7ii?
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Sep 2, 2018 19:27
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I’d just get an X100F and call it a day.
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Sep 2, 2018 20:42
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Yeah, from what you described as your reason for sale the X100 series makes the most sense. Simple, easy to bring with you, excellent image quality.
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Sep 2, 2018 22:04
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Yeah that’s true. Even though it is irrational the one thing I’ve missed since leaving Canon for Fuji is full frame for whatever reason and my 35mm lenses are collecting dust because I don’t have the time to develop film these days. The X100 is what got me to leave canon though so I know I would love to have one again. Since the F is comparable to the XT2, which x100 is comparable to the XT1? The S or T? I should probably figure out which would make the most sense. I could probably live with the original honestly but not having a sense of how much it would have been used I worry about longevity - even though it is a Bayer sensor I really loved the image output on that camera and thought it was something special.
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Sep 2, 2018 22:08
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I had an a7ii for a month and directly compared it to my XT-2. It wasn't any better IQ wise imo and the ergonomics/EVF are way worse.
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Sep 2, 2018 23:22
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8th-snype posted:I had an a7ii for a month and directly compared it to my XT-2. It wasn't any better IQ wise imo and the ergonomics/EVF are way worse.
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Sep 3, 2018 00:57
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rio posted:Yeah that’s true. Even though it is irrational the one thing I’ve missed since leaving Canon for Fuji is full frame for whatever reason and my 35mm lenses are collecting dust because I don’t have the time to develop film these days. The X100 is what got me to leave canon though so I know I would love to have one again. That would be the T. Image quality between them is subjective, but I’d get the F because it’s just so much faster to operate and focus, has a better B&W filter with grain options, and high ISO is a big improvement over previous sensors. Plus the extra resolution will come in handy when cropping. My best travel pictures always end up happening when I bring the X100T and nothing else. The lack of choice of zoom or lenses is actually liberating and my creativity composition improves. I’ve brought that camera literally around the globe many multiples of times and love the poo poo out of it. I think qirex is doing X100F only you can ask him how it’s working out for him, he seems to be happy. As for Sony full frame cameras, my opinion after owning an A7 II and an A7R II is this: for the shooting I do, I would use Sony full frame cameras if I was a photographer as my career and couldn’t afford the Fuji GFX system. But as a hobbyist who enjoys the activity of photography itself as much as the end result, Sony cameras frustrate me. I find them not fun to operate. Those A7R files though... Anyways, for how much money you’ll get for the kit you are selling you should get about enough for a X100F and a used A7 II to adapt your old lenses.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:20
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If you're on the verge of ditching an X-T2 setup with a 23/1.4 and 56/1.2 for an A7ii, I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend. But if you want to downsize and refocus on the fun you used to have, and buy an X100 again, I will understand. Seriously though, if you're not feeling the X-T2 as a suitable system for paid work, it's not likely that you're going to get up to the level you want with an A7ii. They're not as well-made. The IBIS is nice, but I feel like the Fuji's DoF advantage helps ameliorate the one-stop of light-gathering power that FF has. Plus the Fuji interface is better and it's easier to get nice JPEGS for immediate sharing. I mean, technically, spec-for-spec, the A7ii wins against the Fuji for stills photography (the Fuji smokes it for video), but IMO it's far from being so much better that the expense and trouble to switch would be worth it, for me. And for me personally, I know that if I was diving into more paid work and felt that my X-T2 wasn't cutting it, I'd be much more likely to flip into a full-frame DSLR (likely a D750). DSLR's are still king of Mt. Pro: the battery life, the reliability, the AF, *your client's perception of your seriousness*. (And as an aside regarding all the recent hand wringing over the new Canikons with single card slots: dual slots are great for convenience and piece of mind, but the idea behind leaving that feature off of the Z & R is solid: If you're doing actual serious work that the client has high stakes in and you're being well compensated, it's much more important to have a backup camera than a second card slot. You are much, much more likely to drop your camera or otherwise incidentally gently caress up your whole system by accident than you are to suffer spontaneous and unrecoverable card failure, especially if you are formatting the card before going to the job. Carry extra batteries, extra cards, and an extra camera.) On the other hand, if you want to strip down and focus more on the essentials of the hobby, I have a weird suggestion. I feel it's much less solid advice than the above, but hear me out... The X100T is the equivalent generation to the X-T1. But you should either go all-in on an X100F for all the latest and greatest features and that 24MP resolution X-Trans sensor, or just say gently caress it, save $600-700, and grab the best available OG X100. It's still a great camera. The 12MP EXR sensor is no slouch, and it's a great deal for the price at this time. That's if you highly value and appreciate the X100 OVF, which you should, but if you don't, then say double gently caress it and get the newest version of the GR. This is idiosyncratic advice, but I think the GR puts out the best images of the three. Awesome IQ and very filmic IMO. But go browse through X100F, OG X100, and Ricoh GR photos on Flickr and see for yourself. alkanphel posted:I remember there was a quote from someone in Olympus saying: "It's not that we're gaining market share, it's that the entire market is shrinking." And they should know. Olympus set the gold standard for making sure their shareholders always saw good news 
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Sep 3, 2018 01:28
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