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Byzantine posted:People still side with NCR though? And House. But then when your choice is between two imperialists and one other imperialist fascist with slaves and multiple rape farms it kind of makes the first two imperialists look not so bad. New Vegas is kind of all about picking the lesser of two evils, whatever you personally believe that too be.
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Sep 2, 2018 03:36
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:And House. House is objectively the best choice though.
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Sep 2, 2018 04:29
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LeJackal posted:House is objectively the best choice though. No gods no masters. gently caress all of them, make Vegas free and trade with the NCR from a position of power.
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Sep 2, 2018 04:38
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In another life House could've been Andrew Ryan. And given what the Chairmen, Omertas and White Glove Society were all planning behind his back I suspect New Vegas would've ended up much like Rapture has we not intervened. Horrific mutants and all. Given the available options, the NCR had the least awful vision for the future given everyone else had various flavours of enslaving or killing everyone.
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Sep 2, 2018 04:49
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Fuligin posted:A Fallout based on the Gulf Coast in an arc from Texas to the Florida panhandle would own v much. Or the other way around, start with an accidental launch in Florida ala Lonesome Road and have shenanigans that leads you all the way to Houston.
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Sep 2, 2018 04:53
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LeJackal posted:House is objectively the best choice though. get this: house is a dude who sucks
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Sep 2, 2018 04:59
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The only good choice is No Gods No Masters with the Courier as overlord of the Mojave so you can smoothbrain whatever utopian ideal you want to imagine.
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Sep 2, 2018 05:00
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LeJackal posted:House is objectively the best choice though. Capitalist gangsters ruling with the aid of killer robots, what's not to like?
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Sep 2, 2018 05:08
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House is the Elon Musk of New Vegas. "Who cares if he's a horrible person with a creepy behavior? HE'S A TECH WIZARD WHO PROMISES US THAT WE'LL GO TO SPACE!"
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Sep 2, 2018 05:57
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I ended up with House because Ceasar's Legion is absolutely terrible, and that with the troubles the NCR was having I figured that they would be unable to hold the area for particularly long. While House isn't great, he's probably better than a power vacuum left when the NCR is forced to abandon the area or risk collapse. Did I misread the NCR's situation? I thought they were having some serious troubles maintaining order even on the home front?
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Sep 2, 2018 06:11
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ApeHawk posted:House is the Elon Musk of New Vegas. House still hasn't randomly accused people of being pedophiles, so you know, he actually has the moral high ground here.
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Sep 2, 2018 07:41
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:House still hasn't randomly accused people of being pedophiles, so you know, he actually has the moral high ground here. You don't know he didn't do that before the war.
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Sep 2, 2018 07:54
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catlord posted:I ended up with House because Ceasar's Legion is absolutely terrible, and that with the troubles the NCR was having I figured that they would be unable to hold the area for particularly long. While House isn't great, he's probably better than a power vacuum left when the NCR is forced to abandon the area or risk collapse. Did I misread the NCR's situation? I thought they were having some serious troubles maintaining order even on the home front? IIRC the NCR's core territories were safe and secure but they've been overextending themselves colonizing a bunch of different areas, not just the Mojave. One of Hanlon's main complaints was that the veteran rangers were hanging out in Baja instead of helping hold Hoover Dam
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Sep 2, 2018 08:05
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ApeHawk posted:House is the Elon Musk of New Vegas. Hey, I don't remember any securitrons randomly bursting into flames  Though he did design a waterproof death coffin, just not one for children, so that one kinda counts.
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Sep 2, 2018 08:09
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ApeHawk posted:You don't know he didn't do that before the war. oh most definitely i think ncr will be fine for the most part regardless of all its problems unless bethesda decides to blow it up
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Sep 2, 2018 08:49
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 lol
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Sep 2, 2018 09:24
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CharlestonJew posted:IIRC the NCR's core territories were safe and secure but they've been overextending themselves colonizing a bunch of different areas, not just the Mojave. One of Hanlon's main complaints was that the veteran rangers were hanging out in Baja instead of helping hold Hoover Dam Yeah this, and they're also trying to hold ground against the Legion in a war that is very unpopular back home and therefore poorly resourced.
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Sep 2, 2018 09:53
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catlord posted:I ended up with House because Ceasar's Legion is absolutely terrible, and that with the troubles the NCR was having I figured that they would be unable to hold the area for particularly long. While House isn't great, he's probably better than a power vacuum left when the NCR is forced to abandon the area or risk collapse. Did I misread the NCR's situation? I thought they were having some serious troubles maintaining order even on the home front? The Mojave is basically becoming the NCRs Vietnam, the public is slowly becoming sick of all the deaths to hold a desert on the border of nowhere, but at the same time are now in sunk cost mode where just going home isn't politically acceptable either. If you help the NCR win, especially if you do all the stuff to get neutral groups on board with the NCR while eradicating hostile factions like the fiends, the pressure comes off, and with the Mojave internally pacified it's borders are defensible given that the major threat of a unified empire on the southeastern border has collapsed and an allied tribe to the northeast has massive artillery batteries that can cover the northern and eastern approaches. The ending slides paint a very rosy picture of the NCRs future if you do a completionist's good karma run for the NCR. I think the ultimate outcome of the House run is interesting, because by the end of it house trusts you completely, and the degree to which that's important somewhat depends on how big the separation between gameplay and story there is when it comes to the courier's abilities. If the courier is as much of an unstoppable killing machine as you might think from their actions in game, House is arguably more beholden to you than you are to him, so he has a...strong incentive, you might say, to run the Mojave in a manner consistent with the courier's morality. Whereas if House has the ability to just dispense with the courier if they fall out, House's veneer of benevolent dictatorship has the benevolence flake off the minute someone starts agitating for labour rights or elections or whatever and the securitrons come out.
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Sep 2, 2018 09:57
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LeJackal posted:House is objectively the best choice though. ApeHawk posted:House is the Elon Musk of New Vegas. Look, whether you think House is a good guy or a bad guy the point I was trying to make was that he is 100% an imperialist. He used his robot army to forcibly take over the local tribes of New Vegas for personal gain. Of course, from what we learn those tribes were all jerks at best and outright cannibals at worst and it was probably a good thing House got them to stop doing most of the awful stuff they used to do. On the other hand, it's not like House colonized those tribes out of the goodness of his heart because he found what they were doing morally reprehensible, he just needed some meatbags to do his bidding and acting like an uncivilized cannibal is bad for business. Hell, he actually doesn't give a gently caress about the whole cannibalism thing as long as it's done in a classy way that doesn't make him look bad. It's complicated, House is a complicated and kind of awful guy, but as Caesar shows us he's not as bad as he could be. As far as things you could use to fill a political power vacuum go he's a pretty solid "Not the worst choice in the world" and an extremely reasonable person to side with given the options you have available (although I always pick independent New Vegas myself, and the NCR are arguably the faction that can potentially do the most immediate good depending on your choices).
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Sep 2, 2018 10:21
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MJBuddy posted:"Why are is there a parade of Super Mutants being cheered?" There was this cheesy testosterone-laced book series I read as a kid called Wingman about a pilot named Hawk Hunter flying an F-16 around post-WWIII America. One exchange has always stuck with me... quote:"What about Texas?"
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Sep 2, 2018 12:42
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if you exhaust all options and make everyone get on board ncr in my opinion is probably the most "optimal" of outcomes civilization is saved, everyone is happy and working together, good chunk of problems with the NCR are resolved in some manner thanks to your efforts the morally "correct" choice is probably good karma independent but it is very unclear how everything would eventually pan as you leave the world in a fairly shaky place. bad karma or just not doing most quests independent run is probably almost as bad an outcome as helping the legion because you pretty much leave vegas with a huge power vacuum and lawless chaos everywhere
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Sep 2, 2018 12:52
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The weirdest part of the NCR ending is what happens to Goodsprings. Taxes force pretty much everyone out of the area, but the slide makes no mention of the fact that Goodsprings has a non radioactive freshwater spring. That kind of real estate would be super valuable.
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Sep 2, 2018 14:08
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Behold the greatest evil of the postapocalypse: TAXES!
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Sep 2, 2018 14:14
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taxes often comes up with the ncr as one of its general downsides but i never really thought it was entirely clear how this was actually playing out like if you have the NCR army protect primm they complain about the taxes but its like...what? on like, the one store where they sell dynamite and scrap metal? of the dozen or so people that live here? or is the NCR army just going around and demanding like a 20% tribute of everything you got like they're warlords. that would definitely color things on which faction would be right to pick but i don't think it's ever spelled out to be that way. there's definitely some kind of revenue collection going on that is then distributed into public services and not just gunboat tax collection
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Sep 2, 2018 14:22
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Hell, he actually doesn't give a gently caress about the whole cannibalism thing as long as it's done in a classy way that doesn't make him look bad. Yes he does. If you let him know the White Gloves are eating people, he orders you to exterminate them.
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Sep 2, 2018 15:13
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Berke Negri posted:taxes often comes up with the ncr as one of its general downsides but i never really thought it was entirely clear how this was actually playing out yeah I don't recall any mention of NCR taxes being super crippling or anything, not sure what the deal was with that
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Sep 2, 2018 15:33
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Taxation is theft, people!
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Sep 2, 2018 15:52
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CharlestonJew posted:yeah I don't recall any mention of NCR taxes being super crippling or anything, not sure what the deal was with that They're probably super crippling when compared to the no taxes of the wasteland, and the NCR isn't able to provide security or utilities to match because they're gobbling up more land than they can actually control.
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Sep 2, 2018 16:07
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CharlestonJew posted:yeah I don't recall any mention of NCR taxes being super crippling or anything, not sure what the deal was with that A couple characters mentioned NCR are pretty strict when it comes to taxes, something about it mostly because of the water barons back home or something.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:21
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It wouldn't surprise me if the NCR used a lot of flat taxes to fund its government given that it probably doesn't have the means to make sure you're paying x% of your income or your sales or whatever, so yeah, I could imagine that for poorer communities NCR taxes could be pretty poo poo.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:32
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I had to go look up the slide again because it's been a while but it sounds like Goodsprings does pretty good under the NCR but the taxes force some people to leave.End Slide posted:Goodsprings saw more trade along I-15 after NCR gained control of the Mojave Wasteland, but with that came a heavy burden of the Republic's taxes. Some old-timers, unable to handle the cost, were forced to move on, grumbling all the while. Still weird that anyone would just up and leave because they were "unable to handle the cost" of taxes. I guess we have to just take the games word for it since how the NCR does taxes is never explained. MariusLecter posted:Taxation is theft, people! I have a weird feeling that someone on the writing staff held this mindset or, if not that, thought it was a way to inject some "grey" into the choice of siding with the NCR that didn't involve much effort.
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Sep 2, 2018 20:22
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Easy Pete was getting taxed 5 sticks of dynamite quarterly. How is a man supposed to stay Armed to the Teeth with that kind of burden?
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Sep 2, 2018 20:45
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MariusLecter posted:Easy Pete was getting taxed 5 sticks of dynamite quarterly. How is a man supposed to stay Armed to the Teeth with that kind of burden? If the choice is accepting taxation and democratic government or wandering off into the apocalyptic desert to be eaten by raiders, I know what I would choose!
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Sep 2, 2018 21:18
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SwitchbladeKult posted:I have a weird feeling that someone on the writing staff held this mindset or, if not that, thought it was a way to inject some "grey" into the choice of siding with the NCR that didn't involve much effort. I mean, Obsidian does have their office in Orange County, California, spiritual home of the NO TAXES EVER  ideology.
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Sep 2, 2018 21:38
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Good drat NANNY STATE *bloatfly maggots explode out of eyeballs*
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Sep 2, 2018 22:25
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Kaal posted:If the choice is accepting taxation and democratic government or wandering off into the apocalyptic desert to be eaten by raiders, I know what I would choose! That's pretty much what my stance always boiled down to. The NCR is basically modern day USA with all of its problems at their worst and more, which would make them a pretty ugly choice by modern standards - but they're not being judged by modern standards. It's NCR, the legion, or a post-apocalyptic wasteland where you can't walk ten feet without raiders trying to kill and eat you. Sign me the gently caress up for "Modern USA, but worse."
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Sep 2, 2018 22:28
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Byzantine posted:Yes he does. If you let him know the White Gloves are eating people, he orders you to exterminate them. Good to know, the shriveled husk of Howard Hughes gets another point added added to his "not as bad of an oligarchical dictator as you could be" score. SwitchbladeKult posted:I have a weird feeling that someone on the writing staff held this mindset or, if not that, thought it was a way to inject some "grey" into the choice of siding with the NCR that didn't involve much effort. Eh, I dunno, the vague yet intense hatred the people of New Vegas feel towards "TAXES  " seemed pretty realistic. Irrational, but realistic. I mean, the whole reason America exists as an independent nation is because a bunch of wealthy landowners were sick of paying taxes to the point where they started a war over it. Then, after that war, this country nearly fell apart because those same wealthy landowners had such trouble getting less wealthy landowners to pay taxes to them, so much so that they had to bring in the army to get them to behave (Which, yeah, hypocritical, but it turns out running a government is loving expensive).We are a country that's built around hating taxes, our citizens hear "We're going to take some of your money now so we can pay for social programs that will benefit all of society as a whole including you" and they stop listening after "We're going to take some of your money". The people of New Vegas have a similar thought process to people in the real world: The Followers of the Apacolypse being able to greatly expand their operations and provide medical treatment to many more people? A functional power plant? A patrol system that guards the roads and prevents robbers and monsters from murdering you and taking your stuff? Good things  The Taxes used to fund all these programs? BAD THING
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Sep 2, 2018 22:42
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FO4 Progress: Been progressing along the main story. It's pretty ho-hum so far, and I have absolutely no real interest or attachment in my kid. Caught up to Kellogg and perforated him, woo! Explored his brainy bits! Neat! Now I'm wandering around the Glowing Sea, which I thought was going to be actual water. Found a bunker facility with a couple of Synths hanging around inside, and shot them to bits. Then at the bottom, I found an armour frame with (drum roll please) a Power Armour X-01 Left Leg! Wooo! Feeling a little ripped off, I reloaded my save before I entered the bunker. After getting to the bottom again, the frame now had a torso, helmet, and right arm. Looks like I'll be playing the random number gamble game until I get a full suit.
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Sep 2, 2018 22:53
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The Zombie Guy posted:FO4 Progress: Did you spring for the DLC? If so check out Far Harbor with Nick Valentine. Also, consider taking a break from the main quest to do the Silver Shroud sidequest back in Goodneighbor, pick the "Speak as the Shroud" option whenever you can.
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Sep 2, 2018 23:14
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The people of New Vegas have a similar thought process to people in the real world: The Followers of the Apacolypse being able to greatly expand their operations and provide medical treatment to many more people? A functional power plant? A patrol system that guards the roads and prevents robbers and monsters from murdering you and taking your stuff? Good things NCR isn't supplying any of that, though. They're hostile to the Followers, they've got a theoretical genius working the nonworking power plant, and they don't patrol the roads at all on top of abandoning settlements because they're stretched too thin. Still charge those taxes though.
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Sep 2, 2018 23:23
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