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qkkl posted:Wouldn't more rain offset global warming via evaporative cooling? Seems like the Earth will simply "sweat" to cool itself. That's not how it will go down
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Sep 4, 2018 10:51
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Just get Elon Musk to send a huge spaceship to Saturn to grab a big chunk of ice, drop it in the ocean to cool us off like a big old soda pop.
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Sep 4, 2018 11:48
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Just run air conditioners to above the troposphere, it's colder there
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Sep 4, 2018 12:22
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a giant solar powered laser beam pointed right back at the loving sun
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Sep 4, 2018 13:25
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StabbinHobo posted:a giant solar powered laser beam pointed right back at the loving sun With the added benefit of delaying the sun from going giant red! Brilliant!
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Sep 4, 2018 13:44
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What if everyone opened the doors to their fridges and freezers at the same time?
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Sep 4, 2018 14:21
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Fox Cunning posted:What if everyone opened the doors to their fridges and freezers at the same time? It would be too cold, we would have to burn more coal to offset
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Sep 4, 2018 14:32
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qkkl posted:Wouldn't more rain offset global warming via evaporative cooling? Seems like the Earth will simply "sweat" to cool itself. When people refer to the earth, they are talking about the seas and the atmosphere too, the whole thing together is the system we call earth. Moving heat from one part of the earth to another, like from the atmosphere to the sea via rain, doesn't help. The total heat in the system stays the same. You fool. You absolute gibbering moron.
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Sep 4, 2018 16:01
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Whatever the fix is, I'm sure it involves loosing nuclear holocaust. What if we blast the extra heat away? Fight fire with fire?
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Sep 4, 2018 16:16
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Nevvy Z posted:Educating the mass and politicians about safe carbon free nuclear energy is the number one thing any of us can do to fight climate change. The only hurdles are social/political and all the science is on one side. The US Nuclear Industry is its own worse enemy. My electrical rates have been jacked up because (SDG&E) literally broke an operating nuclear power plant. That being said, Germany should have waited until all the coal plants were replaced with alternatives before shutting down a nuclear power plant. But let's be clear, the time to build a plant makes this not as great alternative as one would think and it's not carbon-free. Mining and construction do produce carbon:  https://theconversation.com/is-nuclear-power-zero-emission-no-but-it-isnt-high-emission-either-41615
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Sep 4, 2018 16:42
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VideoGameVet posted:But let's be clear, the time to build a plant makes this not as great alternative as one would think Alternative to?
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Sep 4, 2018 17:12
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Bishounen Bonanza posted:When people refer to the earth, they are talking about the seas and the atmosphere too, the whole thing together is the system we call earth. Moving heat from one part of the earth to another, like from the atmosphere to the sea via rain, doesn't help. The total heat in the system stays the same. Water will land on the ground and take some heat from the ground. When the water evaporates the vapor rises into the upper atmosphere. In the upper atmosphere the surface area of the vapor increases because the decreased pressure causes the vapor gas to expand. With this increased surface area the amount of heat the vapor loses via thermal radiation increases, with about half of that radiation being lost to outer space. Therefore rain cools the Earth by moving heat energy from the solid Earth into the upper atmosphere where it can more easily radiate into outer space.
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Sep 4, 2018 17:51
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qkkl posted:Water will land on the ground and take some heat from the ground. When the water evaporates the vapor rises into the upper atmosphere. In the upper atmosphere the surface area of the vapor increases because the decreased pressure causes the vapor gas to expand. With this increased surface area the amount of heat the vapor loses via thermal radiation increases, with about half of that radiation being lost to outer space. Therefore rain cools the Earth by moving heat energy from the solid Earth into the upper atmosphere where it can more easily radiate into outer space. In any other thread I would be irritated by a derail but a little bit of stupidity breaks up the monotony of the sky is falling posts.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:13
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The current C02 is 400 ppm or something like that, what was the "good number" way back in the year 1900 or prior to that?
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Sep 4, 2018 18:16
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Preindustrial atmospheric CO2 is 280-ish PPM.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:44
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qkkl posted:Water will land on the ground and take some heat from the ground. When the water evaporates the vapor rises into the upper atmosphere. In the upper atmosphere the surface area of the vapor increases because the decreased pressure causes the vapor gas to expand. With this increased surface area the amount of heat the vapor loses via thermal radiation increases, with about half of that radiation being lost to outer space. Therefore rain cools the Earth by moving heat energy from the solid Earth into the upper atmosphere where it can more easily radiate into outer space. reread my reply to you very slowly
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Sep 4, 2018 18:48
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VideoGameVet posted:The US Nuclear Industry is its own worse enemy. My electrical rates have been jacked up because (SDG&E) literally broke an operating nuclear power plant. Yeah in the US at least the nuclear industry is requiring a much higher price than is competitive with new renewables, so even if a carbon tax was added to price out natural gas, renewables would still make it not cost competitive to run most existing nukes (let alone build new ones). https://www.powermag.com/more-premature-nuclear-unit-retirements-loom/?pagenum=2  Those are pre-tax numbers and include subsidies and yet only a few plants will actually make money for their operators. It is no wonder that most utilities aren't interested in building more.
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Sep 4, 2018 19:08
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qkkl posted:Water will land on the ground and take some heat from the ground. When the water evaporates the vapor rises into the upper atmosphere. In the upper atmosphere the surface area of the vapor increases because the decreased pressure causes the vapor gas to expand. With this increased surface area the amount of heat the vapor loses via thermal radiation increases, with about half of that radiation being lost to outer space. Therefore rain cools the Earth by moving heat energy from the solid Earth into the upper atmosphere where it can more easily radiate into outer space. Hot loving poo poo, it wasn't a joke post
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Sep 4, 2018 20:43
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qkkl posted:Water will land on the ground and take some heat from the ground. When the water evaporates the vapor rises into the upper atmosphere. In the upper atmosphere the surface area of the vapor increases because the decreased pressure causes the vapor gas to expand. With this increased surface area the amount of heat the vapor loses via thermal radiation increases, with about half of that radiation being lost to outer space. Therefore rain cools the Earth by moving heat energy from the solid Earth into the upper atmosphere where it can more easily radiate into outer space. That's not how anything works.
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Sep 4, 2018 20:58
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You should submit your theory to the IPCC AR6 Working Group 1, they're accepting literature though Christmas next year and you seem to be onto a positively novel atmospheric phenomenon with your Droplet Direct Net © radiative model. Who knew science was missing out on a common misconception worked out in Atmo & Weather 101?
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Sep 4, 2018 21:00
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I look forward to reading in TFR or GBS how exclusionary and elitist it is to tell someone their understanding of earth science is foundationally wrong
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Sep 4, 2018 21:02
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Nevvy Z posted:Alternative to? Don't be so obtuse.  You know the alternatives.
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Sep 4, 2018 21:07
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qkkl posted:Water will land on the ground and take some heat from the ground. When the water evaporates the vapor rises into the upper atmosphere. In the upper atmosphere the surface area of the vapor increases because the decreased pressure causes the vapor gas to expand. With this increased surface area the amount of heat the vapor loses via thermal radiation increases, with about half of that radiation being lost to outer space. Therefore rain cools the Earth by moving heat energy from the solid Earth into the upper atmosphere where it can more easily radiate into outer space. As mentioned, water vapor hangs out predominately below the cloud layer, and selectively absorbs infrared emitted from the earth, making it a greenhouse gas. The idea would totally work in the form of a pressurized, refrigerant-filled tube that goes from ground level to space. The liquid refrigerant at the bottom would absorb heat and vaporize, rise, then emit that heat when it condenses in a higher part of the tube. You'd just have to invent a new refrigerant, make the tube to withstands thousands of PSI, chrome it so it doesn't absorb sunlight, and tether the top of the tube to a satellite like a space elevator. The tube should have huge fins to improve heat transfer, while remaining clean and surviving high winds. e. You can use existing refrigerants if you add a compressor and operate the tube at tens of thousands of PSI. e2. It works way better if you flip it and separate the liquid and gas side with a regulating valve. You're welcome. 
Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 21:25
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Potato Salad posted:Hot loving poo poo, it wasn't a joke post not empty quoting
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Sep 4, 2018 21:40
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Do you mind if I share this image around my local area in letterboxes and stickytaped to telephone poles?
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Sep 4, 2018 22:32
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i think if we can just harpoon the moon and pump boiling water up to it...
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Sep 4, 2018 22:41
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Kinda want to play this with this thread. I argue it's very relevant right now. "Precipitation radiator"
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Sep 4, 2018 22:53
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Preen Dog posted:As mentioned, water vapor hangs out predominately below the cloud layer, and selectively absorbs infrared emitted from the earth, making it a greenhouse gas. If the amount of heat radiated into outer space by the water vapor exceeds the amount it blocks from below then there will still be a cooling effect. More water vapor in the air also means more clouds, which reflect solar radiation. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/greenhouse-gases.php?section=watervapor This site seems to indicate that little research has been done on the effects of water vapor on global warming, despite water vapor being the most abundant greenhouse gas. However given that the current Trump administration has an agenda to deny climate change I'm a bit skeptical that this piece was written without bias.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:51
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qkkl posted:If the amount of heat radiated into outer space by the water vapor exceeds the amount it blocks from below then there will still be a cooling effect. More water vapor in the air also means more clouds, which reflect solar radiation. That's still not how anything works.
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Sep 5, 2018 02:46
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qkkl posted:This site seems to indicate that little research has been done on the effects of water vapor on global warming, despite water vapor being the most abundant greenhouse gas. Read it again. They know it's a positive feedback loop (generates more warming), where they're claiming confusion is in exactly how strong it is.
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Sep 5, 2018 02:58
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Potato Salad posted:Whatever the fix is, I'm sure it involves loosing nuclear holocaust. We just need to get the egg-heads to tweak the nukes a bit. Turn some into SunBusters and nuke the sun. Once it's lost enough hitpoints it's output will drop enough to offset warming. Turn the rest of the nukes into CarbonBusters that turn CO2 into diamonds or something and set them off in a grid in the oceans. Warming, ocean acidification and the threat of nuclear war removed in one fell swoop. You can send me my Nobel prizes in the mail
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Sep 5, 2018 03:12
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We should be considering global cooling imo
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Sep 5, 2018 03:21
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Hello Sailor posted:Read it again. They know it's a positive feedback loop (generates more warming), where they're claiming confusion is in exactly how strong it is. They don't know what the effects of other feedback loops could be. For example maybe a slight increase in global temperatures causes massive amounts of rainfall, which then cause cooling that causes global temperatures to drop below even pre-industrial temperatures, which subsequently causes a significant drop in water vapor such that the total amount of greenhouse gases once again equals the levels during pre-industrial times and global temperatures stabilize.
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Sep 5, 2018 03:43
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Let's boil the oceans to create permanent cloud cover to reflect as much solar heat as possible
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Sep 5, 2018 05:48
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qkkl posted:They don't know what the effects of other feedback loops could be. For example maybe a slight increase in global temperatures causes massive amounts of rainfall, which then cause cooling that causes global temperatures to drop below even pre-industrial temperatures, which subsequently causes a significant drop in water vapor such that the total amount of greenhouse gases once again equals the levels during pre-industrial times and global temperatures stabilize. Hideo Kojima??!
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Sep 5, 2018 06:56
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Potato Salad posted:Kinda want to play this with this thread. I argue it's very relevant right now. okay that's great
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Sep 5, 2018 07:01
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qkkl posted:If the amount of heat radiated into outer space by the water vapor exceeds the amount it blocks from below then there will still be a cooling effect. More water vapor in the air also means more clouds, which reflect solar radiation. Factors like cloud height, insolation, condensation nuclei, all affect the radiative balance of water vapor formation. This stuff is modeled in CMIP5 and is heavily discussed in IPCC's AR5. Changes in convective patterns over different modeling scenarios is a known contributor of a significant amount of variance. However, the typical summary is that more heat -> more water vapor -> more radiative forcing. You should probably just go to a good site like skepticalscience or just read through AR5 if you're actually interested in this stuff. It's been covered extensively.
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Sep 5, 2018 08:05
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For a real loving plain example of clouds doing different things, consider how low clouds at night are different from high clouds in the day.
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Sep 5, 2018 08:54
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:For a real loving plain example of clouds doing different things, consider how low clouds at night are different from high clouds in the day. you mean smith- and yay-clouds, right?
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Sep 5, 2018 11:49
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so can we nuke the clouds higher?
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Sep 5, 2018 15:04
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