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Mraagvpeine posted:So wait, does this mean the real life police know about the Cognitive world and can enter it whenever they want now? Maybe, maybe not. Were they active conspirators or ignorant pawns? Were they carrying smartphones or were they forced to leave them behind?
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Sep 3, 2018 22:41
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Just to clarify, is it okay to talk about alternative versions of previous cutscenes and if so should we use the spoiler tag to cover it?
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Sep 3, 2018 22:45
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I can't think of anything in the future that will be spoiled by those scenes, which to my recollection are all glorified game overs. I'd prefer you use tags if you're going to do that, though, because I was going to show some of that stuff off eventually. Not immediately, but eventually. W.T. Fits posted:Sae was inside her own Palace, but she never heard Morgana talk while she was in there. Thus, to her, Morgana in the real world still sounds like a normal cat. As for Akechi... My issue is twofold: we never get any indication Akechi has ever heard Morgana's voice before, and if he has, why would he respond to it? It's all really just a dumb minor quibble, but the idea that Akechi has been spying on us since before we even made our debut is absurd. gently caress, the weird teases with Kaneshiro and Madarame barely make sense in the first place.
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Sep 3, 2018 22:54
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:You all bought it! Even my immediate family bought it, Akechi!
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Sep 3, 2018 23:11
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Mraagvpeine posted:So wait, does this mean the real life police know about the Cognitive world and can enter it whenever they want now? MightyPretenders posted:Maybe, maybe not. Were they active conspirators or ignorant pawns? Were they carrying smartphones or were they forced to leave them behind? Probably just the police who are in on the conspiracy under Shido. Like, they likely have a number of flunkies plus a couple of higher ups in the organization, so finding a bunch of do the bidding of Akechi shouldn't be that hard. And they could just have them killed by a mental shutdown later or whatever if they thought they were gonna talk, and blame it on the Phantom Thieves taking revenge for the death of their leader.
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Sep 3, 2018 23:22
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 I vastly regret giving away my contest winning to someone else now that the perfect art has appeared
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Sep 3, 2018 23:33
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In character you have a very simple choice to make when you finally catch up to the present. Do you sell out your friends or do you risk everything to keep them safe? If you already knew that the plan was to be captured and that everything was still going as it was supposed to be then it would make no sense to betray everyone.
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Sep 3, 2018 23:39
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Mraagvpeine posted:So wait, does this mean the real life police know about the Cognitive world and can enter it whenever they want now? My take on it was always that Akechi just told a bunch of dudes to show up at a certain time and place and then activated the app. The Metaverse and real world are identical outside of the palaces so they probably wouldn't have noticed anything odd until they got to the casino, and anyone who asked too many questions about that could be pretty easily disappeared by the conspiracy.
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Sep 4, 2018 00:13
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The cops and Sae presumably have smartphones that by the established rules should now have the creepy metaverse app, yes.
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Sep 4, 2018 00:55
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Nah, Ryuji didn't have the app after he entered the Metaverse for the first time.
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Sep 4, 2018 00:55
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Gruckles posted:The cops and Sae presumably have smartphones that by the established rules should now have the creepy metaverse app, yes. This is based on the bullshit that Akechi tried to use to explain how he had a metaverse app.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:09
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Arist posted:Wait, what? She should be able to hear him! She’s been to a Palace, and Akechi had never heard Morgana before in the Metaverse! Which is it, game? She never heard Morgana talk inside a Palace though. We know from Madarame shadow that someone (Akechi) was loving around Palaces before we started stealing hearts and in Okumura's Palace nobody noticed him trailing us; I'd say he has been trailing the party since quite a while. I think he was directly spying on the party since Kaneshiro at the latest. It's improbable that he was aware of us during Kamoshida's Palace but after the first change of hearth, he'd investigate the situation because another Metaverse user is a threat; the calling cards would have given him an easy time and place to catch the party in the act.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:18
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quote != edit goddammit EDIT: Gruckles posted:The cops and Sae presumably have smartphones that by the established rules should now have the creepy metaverse app, yes. Igor is the one giving out the apps, its not an automatic thing. He's not giving it to half the Tokyo police force
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Sep 4, 2018 01:22
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Hunt11 posted:This is based on the bullshit that Akechi tried to use to explain how he had a metaverse app. I was more basing it on how Ann got accidentally pulled into the metaverse by Maaku and Ryuji, and was immediately kicked out 5 seconds later. Then she suddenly had the app herself and came back in again.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:30
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Gruckles posted:I was more basing it on how Ann got accidentally pulled into the metaverse by Maaku and Ryuji, and was immediately kicked out 5 seconds later. Then she suddenly had the app herself and came back in again. I thought they just brought her to the entrance.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:32
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Nah she was with them at the entrance, they forced her out of the metaverse, and then she used the app and repeated the navigation words she overheard earlier.Arist posted:
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Sep 4, 2018 01:40
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I just said the words Sakamoto said, and I ended up--
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I mean, the generic police can be explained away by just having it have been part of their standing orders, outside of just "show up at this location at this time", to have been to not bring their phones with them for "security reasons" or whatever. Or maybe they all do have the app at this point, but it's not like they have any clue how to use it.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:47
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Igor explained ages ago that he was the one handing out the App. Akechi’s explanation was not in possession of all the facts, partially because he was lying about how he originally got in and therefore how he received the ability to go in and out of the Metaverse, just going to the Metaverse doesn’t give you the App. Igor has to give it to you, and as others have said Igor probably isn’t going to give it to the police that captured us.
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Sep 4, 2018 02:15
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Arist posted:My issue is twofold: we never get any indication Akechi has ever heard Morgana's voice before, and if he has, why would he respond to it? It's all really just a dumb minor quibble, but the idea that Akechi has been spying on us since before we even made our debut is absurd. gently caress, the weird teases with Kaneshiro and Madarame barely make sense in the first place. So yes, it is plausible that Akechi could have started spying on the team early on. The problems are a few timeline hiccups (everything with Futaba is a big question mark, for instance) and the potential effort Akechi would have to go through to conceal himself make the spying more difficult than necessary. I will admit, if the game went with Akechi discovering the group entering Okumura's palace and then going about his evil plans, that would have made more sense. But alas, it is clear that the back half of the game has been through the rewrite grinder a couple of times, and thus plot points like "When did Akechi decide to betray the Phantom Thieves/start being evil?" ended up as we just saw: presented in a very clunky manner that raises more questions than answers.
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Sep 4, 2018 05:07
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yeah the script and general plot beats could've gone through a few more passes but at that point, they were probably itching to get the game out, after all it did come out much later than initially planned
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Sep 4, 2018 05:15
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There's another explanation: Morgana's been metaverse hopping for longer than anyone else, and is stuck as a cat because he got jumped before the game ever got started. No reason he couldn't have come across (not-so) Good Boy in the past, either in passing or as the masked rear end in a top hat who turned Morgana into a cat and hosed with his memory. (Disclaimer: I haven't played this game, this is just a Wild Assed Guess)
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Sep 4, 2018 08:12
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TheFlyingLlama posted:I'm 50/50 on this scene personally. On one hand, it's cool that the characters actually noticed akechi screwing up and made plans around it, but actually answering the how did they pull it off with "your player character and his friends did all this poo poo basically offscreen lol" is kinda weak Yeah, I didn't like it when David Cage pulled this poo poo and I'm not a fan of it now!
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Sep 4, 2018 08:17
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Maybe this is too minor for anyone to care about, or maybe it's explained later, but it seems like this plan hinges on Sae having Joker's phone with her after the interrogation. I'm not clear on how that worked out. Did they let Maaku keep it? That seems unlikely, since Sae mentions that they found a tough encryption on it, so they must have taken it long enough to pass it to their own tech guys or whoever. It's not on the table during the first scene in the interrogation room either, and seems to just appear on the table in the second scene, along with Sae's bag. So did Sae bring it? But that then means the team made a huge assumption in her being given custody of it for some reason. Also, what Sae says here doesn't quite match with her bringing it herself: "So that’s why you gave me your phone… I only took it because of what you told me." I'm just puzzled by the logistics of this physical object, and how the thieves could have possibly controlled/assumed its location.
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Sep 4, 2018 09:14
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They probably couldn't control a bunch of things. But well, they needed a plan and this was the best they had.
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Sep 4, 2018 10:01
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Blademaster_Aio posted:They probably couldn't control a bunch of things. But well, they needed a plan and this was the best they had. It was a Keikaku-tier* plan and they knew it, but there's only so much you can control when your opponent has members of the police force on payroll. Makoto is knowledgeable about police procedure though, if nothing else through osmosis from Sae, so there's a lot they could plan around; in addition, Joker could have simply asked for the phone or tricked Sae into having someone bring it.
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Sep 4, 2018 11:01
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah, I didn't like it when David Cage pulled this poo poo and I'm not a fan of it now! like at least the game didn't outright lie to us, but it'd be nice if we got more hints of them playing a counter plan, but again it's clear this game has gone through a lot of rewrites.
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Sep 4, 2018 18:26
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Robindaybird posted:like at least the game didn't outright lie to us, but it'd be nice if we got more hints of them playing a counter plan, but again it's clear this game has gone through a lot of rewrites. quote:
It's the sort of thing that would get found and unravel the plot instantly in a screenshot LP format, but in-game you could have easily forgotten about the scene with Akechi's slip by then.
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Sep 4, 2018 20:13
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So tell me about <whatever>.
(Wait... there was something... something important I needed to remember...)
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AradoBalanga posted:Since he can go into the Metaverse, Akechi went to where Kamoshida's palace was and found some trace of the Phantom Thieves' work. Palaces collapse and disappear when the Shadow ruling it is beaten. If Akechi is snooping on the team, he has to do it during infiltration time. Or maybe in Mementos. But you can completely ignore Mementos outside the one forced trip, can't you?
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Sep 4, 2018 20:35
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Palaces collapse and disappear when the Shadow ruling it is beaten. If Akechi is snooping on the team, he has to do it during infiltration time. Or maybe in Mementos. But you can completely ignore Mementos outside the one forced trip, can't you? akechi likely wouldn't have had access to mementos anyway, since only morgana knew the keyword for the place
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Sep 4, 2018 21:09
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Oxxidation posted:akechi likely wouldn't have had access to mementos anyway, since only morgana knew the keyword for the place On the other hand, the Culprit must have access to Mementos or something like it. Not everyone has a palace like Okumura did.
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Sep 4, 2018 21:21
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i don't know who got me my avatar but thank you so much <3 Also if anyone wants any of the other arts cut out from that scene, let me know and I'll get it done! Kith fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 22:43
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MightyPretenders posted:On the other hand, the Culprit must have access to Mementos or something like it. Not everyone has a palace like Okumura did. Although that does make me wonder: since the team knows Akechi is the culprit, how is Haru keeping up a reserved and calm appearance? She knows who murdered her father, and even though she didn't have a good relationship with him, I'd expect Haru to be a lot more angrier than she is at the revelation that her father's killer had the cojones to casually offer to join the group and lie to their faces..
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Sep 4, 2018 22:51
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Yeah, the Mementos access is possible. We don't know what kind of research notes Futaba's mom had, so we don't really know where the bad guy's line of base-level knowledge and ability regarding the cognitive world lies.Arist posted:what means to we have of learning his identity?
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Sep 4, 2018 22:55
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AradoBalanga posted:
Yo, there's nothing more terrifying and momentous, imo, than a cold anger. You can see that Haru has a bit of a- no, wait, a notable dark side in her side comments and some other stuff. Especially mementos chatter. Her priorities are straight, and she's level headed, but I don't think for a second that her character would hesitate to crush Akechi, as soon as they found the BBEG and he was no longer useful. We picked a good Waifu, and I'm hoping she gets a good moment
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Sep 5, 2018 00:17
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It was at this point, he knew, Akechi would become a meme.
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Sep 5, 2018 00:32
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AradoBalanga posted:Although that does make me wonder: since the team knows Akechi is the culprit, how is Haru keeping up a reserved and calm appearance? She knows who murdered her father, and even though she didn't have a good relationship with him, I'd expect Haru to be a lot more angrier than she is at the revelation that her father's killer had the cojones to casually offer to join the group and lie to their faces.. Haru spent her entire childhood learning to repress all of her emotions so she could be the perfect daughter and eventually the perfect trophy wife. That's the mask she threw away to summon Milady. Also, judging by her comments in Mementoes, she's the kind of person that would cheerfully murder someone, dismember the body, and bury the pieces out in the woods without the slightest hesitation if she needed to. What I'm saying here is that Akechi needs to watch his back.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:07
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Stroth posted:Haru spent her entire childhood learning to repress all of her emotions so she could be the perfect daughter and eventually the perfect trophy wife. That's the mask she threw away to summon Milady. Also, judging by her comments in Mementoes, she's the kind of person that would cheerfully murder someone, dismember the body, and bury the pieces out in the woods without the slightest hesitation if she needed to.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:21
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AradoBalanga posted:And I just remembered that her firearm choice is a goddamn grenade launcher. Which she uses alongside a double bitted battle ax. Noir has loving issues. Stroth fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 01:35
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AradoBalanga posted:And I just remembered that her firearm choice is a goddamn grenade launcher. I almost feel sorry for Akechi at this point. Almost. Think about it this way. When she is done with Akechi we won't have to worry about hiding the body.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:49
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Stroth posted:Haru spent her entire childhood learning to repress all of her emotions so she could be the perfect daughter and eventually the perfect trophy wife. That's the mask she threw away to summon Milady. Also, judging by her comments in Mementoes, she's the kind of person that would cheerfully murder someone, dismember the body, and bury the pieces out in the woods without the slightest hesitation if she needed to. I'm really glad we're romancing Haru, you guys.
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Sep 5, 2018 02:10
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