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First Nations' problems can be easily solved by giving them real estate, as we know housing values go up uP UP!
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Sep 5, 2018 18:47
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Duck Rodgers posted:Will Bernier's party be appreciably more racist/sexist than the CPC? So far the main difference spoken of is the supply management/corporate welfare stuff. What has Bernier's position been in the past on abortion, immigration, reconcilliation etc? He thinks multiculturalism should be reversed and Canada should significantly reduce immigration. Here are some choice tweets: https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1034821402212425728 https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1032256603209134080 https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1033454406816215046 https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1032252288444710912 https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1032008796950781952 https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1031332376377483265 You can really feel the (((globalism))) in that one https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1030550820876472320 "I only said more diversity would destroy the country, not that new immigrants would destroy the country, god can't you read???" https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1029722397581094913 "Why draw attention to the genocide we committed when we could instead focus on all the progress made by First Nations under Canadian domination, such as" https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1028802319910166529 The tweet that launched a thousand hot takes, where he not only says we should stop becoming more diverse but that we should "reverse" our current levels of diversity. If you prefer something other than tweets, he recently tweeted a link to his still-up CPC leadership campaign policy page, saying that his new party will be based on the same policy ideas listed there. Here are some highlights: quote:Get Ottawa out of health care, and transfer tax points to the provinces This probably means "get rid of the Canada Health Act and begin the process of privatizing Canadian healthcare" quote:Privatize Canada Post and eliminate its monopoly on letter mail quote:Lower air travel costs by privatizing airports and opening the sector to more competition quote:Abolish the Capital Gains Tax quote:Drop Corporate Income Tax from 15% to 10% quote:Scrap the Carbon tax quote:Cut federal tax to 15% on income between $15,001 and $100,000, and 25% tax rate on income above $100,000 Note: he also wanted to eliminate all tax on the first $15k. Current federal tax rates: 15% on the first $46,605 of taxable income, + 20.5% on the next $46,603 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 46,605 up to $93,208), + 26% on the next $51,281 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $93,208 up to $144,489), + 29% on the next $61,353 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 144,489 up to $205,842), + 33% of taxable income over $205,842. In other words, this would be an enormous tax cut. And yet, despite the enormous drop in revenue from this and other cuts in taxes on capital gains, corporations, and carbon... quote:Balance the budget within two years of taking power That's right, he'll balance the budget. How? By massively reducing social spending, as hinted at in his plan to privatize pretty much everything the government does. Of note: while fiscal libertarianism may not seem like a racist or sexist policy, it often ends up being one because a lot of the policies that force our country to not be racist and sexist, like enforcement of acts mandating equal rights, or social spending to benefit disadvantaged groups, require money to be spent on them, which is why the "fiscal conservative, social liberal" idea is always a chimera. There's a bunch of gun stuff too, I'm not going to copy/paste all of it but it's worth noting that 1) relaxing gun policy was one of the seven pillars of his campaign; and 2) the gist of all the gun stuff is "more guns". See for yourself if you must. quote:Reduce the total number of immigrants to 250,000 per year quote:Increase resources for CSIS, the RCMP, and Canadian immigration officials to do background checks and interviews as necessary One of the few places he promises to spend more money is to increase policing on immigration. quote:Immigration must not be used as a tool to forcibly change the cultural character and social fabric of Canada This is a not-very-subtle dogwhistle saying "admit fewer people of colour so Canada can remain a white country". tl;dr: the crux of Bernier's policy proposals is: fewer immigrants, less diversity, more guns, more police, privatize government. e: also his leadership platform never once mentioned First Nations, so what we know about his ideas on that front are based on the bad tweets vyelkin fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 18:47
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PittTheElder posted:First Nations' problems can be easily solved by giving them real estate, as we know housing values go up uP UP! Yeah, I guess we could return some of that unceded land
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Sep 5, 2018 18:48
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bunnyofdoom posted:Personally, I am more hoping that like this shines a light on some of the more egregious poo poo. The Reform party basically set the agenda for the 1990s though and people associated with it are now the elder statesmen of the conservative movement. With Reform in opposition the rest of the political spectrum was dragged to the right and the Chretien Liberals - after getting elected on a platform of oppossing NAFTA and investing in new government programs - used the Reform party as an excuse to dramatically cut back transfer payments and tax rates. While a lot of the more populist elements of the Reform platform like an elected senate never went anywhere the party had a significant impact on Canadian politics. So again, I'm not getting the triumphalism here. Even if the Conservatives lose the next election because of vote splitting there are plenty of elections after that where an anti-immigrant party with real growth potential could now be on the ballot. If you're thinking ten years ahead instead of one then that doesn't seem like something to celebrate, especially when the best thing establishment liberalism has on offer right is Justin Trudeau.
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Sep 5, 2018 18:59
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Do all of these white supremacist politicians know literally 0 non-white people? I can imagine them meeting someone at a dinner party and being like "Nice to meet you! I literally want to kill you!"
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Sep 5, 2018 18:59
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PittTheElder posted:First Nations' problems can be easily solved by giving them real estate, as we know housing values go up uP UP! "We have... the absolute need of awakening in the savage Indian broader desires and ampler wants. To bring him out of savagery into citizenship we must make the Indian more intelligently selfish before we can make him unselfishly intelligent... The desire for property of his own may become an intense educating force. To wish for a home of his own awakens him to new efforts. Discontent with the teepee and the starving rations of the Indian camp in winter is needed to get the Indian out of the blanket and into trousers, — and trousers with a pocket in them, and with a pocket that aches to be filled with dollars." — Merrill E Gates
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Sep 5, 2018 19:02
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Aside from the white supremacy everything quoted sounds good tbqh, delete all government please
xtal fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 19:03
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xtal posted:Aside from the white supremacy everything quoted sounds good tbqh Inasmuch as the only image of colonial administration is at it is run through the fantasy of it as a magical civilizing and enriching force.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:06
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xtal posted:Do all of these white supremacist politicians know literally 0 non-white people? I can imagine them meeting someone at a dinner party and being like "Nice to meet you! I literally want to kill you!" The ones they know or work with are some of the good ones who know their place. Our new FEMALE employee rolls her eyes at feminist stuff, we found out Chuck is 1/2 native and was adopted to a nice white suburban family and he has some strong common-sense real-talk opinions on the coddling and handouts people on reserves get. Amir immigrated here legally, he's not christian but he's super anti-union and his son is in the Canadian forces fighting terrorists so he's ok.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:06
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xtal posted:Aside from the white supremacy everything quoted sounds good tbqh, delete all government please I thought anarchists were supposed to pretend that the outcome of abolishing government wouldn't be a massive increase in private tyranny. When you start cheering for privatized healthcare the mask kinda slips.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:08
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quote:Hello Members!
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Sep 5, 2018 19:09
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Helsing posted:I thought anarchists were supposed to pretend that the outcome of abolishing government wouldn't be a massive increase in private tyranny. When you start cheering for privatized healthcare the mask kinda slips. It's already privatized, just by people with guns. And anarchism requires the removal of capitalism; the issue of state vs corp ownership is irrelevant to it. xtal fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 19:10
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Baronjutter posted:The ones they know or work with are some of the good ones who know their place. Our new FEMALE employee rolls her eyes at feminist stuff, we found out Chuck is 1/2 native and was adopted to a nice white suburban family and he has some strong common-sense real-talk opinions on the coddling and handouts people on reserves get. Amir immigrated here legally, he's not christian but he's super anti-union and his son is in the Canadian forces fighting terrorists so he's ok. Or, to put it in Mad Max tweet form: https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1031324991684575232 "It's okay for me to be racist because some people of colour are also racist"
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Sep 5, 2018 19:12
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Helsing posted:I thought anarchists were supposed to pretend that the outcome of abolishing government wouldn't be a massive increase in private tyranny. When you start cheering for privatized healthcare the mask kinda slips. I don't know why you think the public/private binary would exist outside of the capitalist systems, private property and organizations (like corporations) that hold them exists because there are laws in place that regulate how they are run. They aren't intrinsic to human condition and wouldn't immediately fill the vacuum of 'no government' from an anarchist perspective. If you're a libertarian you tend to believe in replacing government with the 'free market' and basically corporations, that's where 'private tyranny' is an issue.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:17
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vyelkin posted:Bernier platform This is pretty much the Moen-Libertarian platform almost word for word, except Moen wanted a 15% flat tax with tax credits for being a student/old/2 other things I forgot. Bernier is going to take enough support from Scheer that he collapses the big tent Conservative experiment and pushes everything further right... If he can get enough candidates to ruin.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:24
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Helsing posted:So excited for a racist xenophobic party that might actually attract media attention and prominent support! Based on my meticulous record of watching every West Wing episode ever and my solemn commitment to never learn anything from 2016 I have determined that this can mean only good things for the country. All the racists that will vote for Bernier would still exist without his new party - the difference being of course that they’d simply fall in line and vote Conservative. A split amongst the right is good because it’ll makes the racists less likely to get into power. Bernier splitting the right vote is a lot less dangerous to immigrants and minorities than Bernier co-opting the CPC into the dogwhistle anti-immigrant party
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Sep 5, 2018 19:30
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vyelkin posted:Or, to put it in Mad Max tweet form: Some of my best friends are black!
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Sep 5, 2018 19:30
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Idk about it going "further right". It's not like these weren't already popular pet ideas within the Reform party
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Sep 5, 2018 19:32
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xtal posted:It's already privatized, just by people with guns. And anarchism requires the removal of capitalism; the issue of state vs corp ownership is irrelevant to it. So do you not think a lot of vulnerable people would suffer worse if the current system were privatized (using the conventional usage of that word)? Toalpaz posted:I don't know why you think the public/private binary would exist outside of the capitalist systems, private property and organizations (like corporations) that hold them exists because there are laws in place that regulate how they are run. They aren't intrinsic to human condition and wouldn't immediately fill the vacuum of 'no government' from an anarchist perspective. Private hierarchy and authority long predates the modern state and continue to exist in situations where the state collapses. The idea that removing laws magically removes the basis for inequality doesn't become any less dumb when the person advocating for it calls themselves an anarchist instead of a libertarian.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:38
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A Typical Goon posted:All the racists that will vote for Bernier would still exist without his new party - the difference being of course that they’d simply fall in line and vote Conservative. A split amongst the right is good because it’ll makes the racists less likely to get into power. Bernier splitting the right vote is a lot less dangerous to immigrants and minorities than Bernier co-opting the CPC into the dogwhistle anti-immigrant party This seems completely wrongheaded frankly. People's opinions and attitudes are shaped by their political environment and the actors within it. Political parties don't just reveal pre existing attitudes they also shape and change those attitudes over time.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:40
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Helsing posted:So do you not think a lot of vulnerable people would suffer worse if the current system were privatized (using the conventional usage of that word)? They would suffer worse (because of capitalism.) It's wild to live in a society that enslaves the working class, tosses them some crumbs and says "the working class needs us! think of the crumbs!" xtal fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Sep 5, 2018 |
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Sep 5, 2018 19:50
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That's about as meaningful as asking a very sick person if they haven't considered not getting sick in the first place. Unfortunately the Canadian working class can only look enviously on the lucky inhabitants of Libya or Idlib who fortunately have been freed from state tyranny.
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Sep 5, 2018 19:55
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xtal posted:State services can't be a solution because relying on the state is itself a problem.  I know you tried to edit this out but I'm not sure why since it is the clearest expression of your opinion. You're literally cheering for someone who said they plan to privatize healthcare and then blaming the state when called out on it. We can just skip the next part of the conversation where in order to have anything functioning in your society you end up reinventing the government but with a new name, in the same inevitable way that every anarchist commune ever ends up being insanely cliquey, hierarchical and toxic.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:01
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Helsing posted:This seems completely wrongheaded frankly. People's opinions and attitudes are shaped by their political environment and the actors within it. Political parties don't just reveal pre existing attitudes they also shape and change those attitudes over time. I would have to agree with Helsing here, and it's why I want the NDP to be an actual left socialist party, even if it means less tangible power in the short term.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:03
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Helsing posted:You're literally cheering for someone who said they plan to privatize healthcare and then blaming the state when called out on it. This is completely correct. Delete all government. TIA
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Sep 5, 2018 20:17
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State x being present is a Bad Thing in that it means we're lacking in public x. Go donate to Four Thieves Vinegar and shut up.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:18
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Smashing the state one privatized service at a time 
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Sep 5, 2018 20:21
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Anarcho-communism is probably like the one ideology that is dumber than anarcho -capitalism, and that’s quite a hurdle Syndicalists are alright.
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Sep 5, 2018 20:27
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It's like the galaxy brain meme came to life and started posting in this thread
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Sep 5, 2018 20:34
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It's like the one time someone tried to convince me anarchy could work on a large scale because he has a friend that lives in a household with 5 other people and they live in "anarchy"
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Sep 5, 2018 20:50
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If playing too much Civilization has taught me anything, you need to spend a few years in Anarchy before you switch to Communism
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Sep 5, 2018 20:51
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Anarchic groups can definitely exist and prosper, the one that immediately comes to mind is Alcoholics Anonymous. The problem being that literally everyone has to be on the exact same page and it’s incredibly easy for wreakers to mess everything up. To think that an anarchic organization could handle something like healthcare or public housing on a large scale seems to be pretty ignorant. Some organizations and services demand a certain amount of hierarchy to function efficiently
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Sep 5, 2018 21:03
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xtal posted:State x being present is a Bad Thing in that it means we're lacking in public x. Go donate to Four Thieves Vinegar and shut up. No thanks. As someone dependent on medicine for good brains, I don’t want the only source of my meds to be a rickety anarchist commune.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:03
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DariusLikewise posted:If playing too much Civilization has taught me anything, you need to spend a few years in Anarchy before you switch to Communism And that civilizations are ruled by immortal god-kings.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:06
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Helsing posted:This seems completely wrongheaded frankly. People's opinions and attitudes are shaped by their political environment and the actors within it. Political parties don't just reveal pre existing attitudes they also shape and change those attitudes over time. Yes, and it is going to get much, much worse before it improves. Not to be too fatalistic about it, other than silencing him there is not many alternatives to pursue. He has a platform to shout his nonsense from and it will sway people. Hopefully the Canadian left has been paying attention to south of the border for the last 3 years.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:13
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Arivia posted:No thanks. As someone dependent on medicine for good brains, I don’t want the only source of my meds to be a rickety anarchist commune. Maybe you should try and make it less rickety? Or have fun with your wait times and insurance and pharma-corps loving you over I guess.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:19
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https://twitter.com/InternetHippo/status/881161169469403137
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Sep 5, 2018 21:21
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xtal posted:Maybe you should try and make it less rickety? And this won't result in the reinvention of states because...
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Sep 5, 2018 21:22
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Helsing posted:And this won't result in the reinvention of states because... That conclusion says more about you than anything I put forward. Do you conduct a hostile takeover of the local community garden too? Not everything has to be about coercion.
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Sep 5, 2018 21:24
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xtal posted:That conclusion says more about you than anything I put forward. Do you conduct a hostile takeover of the local community garden too? Not everything has to be about coercion. Lmao
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Sep 5, 2018 21:26
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