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SatoshiMiwa posted:That's a hard question to answer right now cause the answer could fully change depending on what happens with the Bucks/Cody/Omega contracts. But as of right now I'd say All Japan and CMLL are probably looking for big leaps forward, especially if CMLL decides to grow globally. Downswings will probably be Revolution Pro and wXw as they get starved out thanks to WWE UK. wXw I actually think will be fine. They've kind of trucked along doing their thing for the better part of 20 years at this point mostly because that part of Europe doesn't really have much competition for them. RevPro will really depend on how New Japan's fortunes go, and I could maybe see Bushiroad/Harold putting a little more effort into cultivating them as a foothold in the UK scene, even more than now.
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Sep 6, 2018 01:13
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Other way around, but Demolition vs Colossal Connection at Wrestlemania 6 was ten minutes of Demolition kicking Haku's rear end until they won
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Sep 6, 2018 02:59
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wXw and RevPro will be fine imo. wXw is good at building up their own talent and bringing in interesting outside talent. They seem to have a decent relationship with WWE anyway. RevPro is basically NJPW UK at this stage. It was funny hearing Andy Q announce how RevPro had got a TV deal all by themselves with nobody's help at Summer Sizzler and then immediately turn around and announce the talent, Jushin Liger, Roppongi 3K, Juice Robinson and Zack Sabre Jr. ROH would take a massive hit if The Elite ever decided to take their talent elsewhere. AJPW and DDT (especially TJPW) are on the upswing right now, though DDT's Korakuen attendance hit a blip with Irie's reign and I'd say Dragon Gate is on a downswing. GEORGE W BUSHI fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Sep 6, 2018 |
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Sep 6, 2018 04:26
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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:wXw and RevPro will be fine imo. wXw is good at building up their own talent and bringing in interesting outside talent. They seem to have a decent relationship with WWE anyway. RevPro is basically NJPW UK at this stage. It was funny hearing Andy Q announce how RevPro had got a TV deal all by themselves with nobody's help at Summer Sizzler and then immediately turn around and announce the talent, Jushin Liger, Roppongi 3K, Juice Robinson and Zack Sabre Jr. Did he say who the deal was with?
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Sep 6, 2018 07:52
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He didn't then, but it's since been announced as being with FreeSports.
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Sep 6, 2018 08:00
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Gumball Gumption posted:When did wrestling in the US become a thing that was only marketed to men? It feels similar to comics where way in the past it was for everyone and then at some point an old boys club decided it was only for men. It obviously isn't like that in Japan and it doesn't seem like that in Mexico. What happened here? As for men's wrestling, I don't have much supporting data. But I'll suppose that as the territory system died out in favour of Vince McMahon's big-budget, high-concept, more cartoonish style of wrestling, most of the new, young fans were male. And after the 80s wrestling boom died out, and WWF and WCW emerged from a slump in the late 90s, the "Attitude Era" style was very edgy and macho and appealed almost entirely to men.
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Sep 6, 2018 17:06
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Who’s in charge of the Mae Young Classic? Is it Vince or HHH? I ask because it feels way more like an NXT event than a main roster event, so my natural assumption is HHH.
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Sep 6, 2018 17:17
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Halloween Jack posted:Women's wrestling in the US collapsed in the early 50s when Billy Wolfe and Mildred Burke had an acrimonious split. Women's wrestling was basically taken over by Moolah, who had an iron grip on the championship, was not a good worker, didn't share Wolfe's interest in legitimizing women's wrestling, and treated the talent even worse than he had done. (She was a no-poo poo human trafficker, essentially leasing young women out to be sideshow attractions and to be raped.) So that was the end of US women's wrestling as something that drew both male fans and female fans who liked seeing female athletes taken seriously. This is a good answer, thanks. I didn't think of Moola but the damage she did would explain a lot of why the market changed.
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Sep 6, 2018 18:04
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Halloween Jack posted:And after the 80s wrestling boom died out, and WWF and WCW emerged from a slump in the late 90s, the "Attitude Era" style was very edgy and macho and appealed almost entirely to men. I don't buy this. It was the lull between Rock n' Wrestling when they killed their women's division by loving over Wendi Richter and the Attitude Era that drove away female fans. Hogan and Warrior were NOT popular with women by any means. Then came the cartoony bullshit of the late Hogan era and New Generation that kept female fans away, even though you had guys like Bret Hart, Nash, and Shawn Michaels with a small but vocal female fanbase. All the crowds at shows I went to during the Attitude Era had a fairly healthy section of (young) female fans. The Rock and the Hardy Boys were EXTREMELY popular with female fans. Later on, the Kurt Angle-Stephanie-HHH love triangle was prob the most over storyline ever for female fans. That, and the Steph-Chris Jericho pairing is still popular in female fan fiction circles to this day (I think the record for long running fanfic on fanfic.net is a female writer that continues the StephXJericho pairing like it was canon). Killing that love triangle angle abruptly was what turned off a lot of their newer female audience during that period. Meltzer even wrote about it. Even a little earlier, Shawn Michaels was very over with female and younger fans even if he was a poo poo draw in the primary market. But he brought in fans that stuck around for the Attitude Era. The InVasion and Ruthless Aggression era was what killed it. Toxic poo poo like the HLA and Katie Vick angles prove it. They had the most (on-screen) blatantly misogynistic poo poo in wrestling history NOT written by Vince Russo. John Cena pretty much single-handedly brought back the younger and female audience.
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Sep 6, 2018 18:37
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Vandar posted:Who’s in charge of the Mae Young Classic? Is it Vince or HHH? Pretty sure it's an HHH thing, though I'm sure they'll give the credit to Steph
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Sep 6, 2018 19:18
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VJeff posted:What promotions are primed for big leaps in the next 5 years? What promotions are looking at big downswings? Call me pessimistic, but I don't see WK13 performing as well as it could. I mean, they'll probably redo Naito/Jericho with Naito going over, and Tanahashi/Omega'll be good, but...idk? Neither of those'll be massive draws. It all goes back to WK12: if Naito had gone over, he would've become both the greatest heel in Japan AND a goddamn megastar. Sure, he'd have turned face over the next year (and Okada would still be turning heel), but WK13 would've probably sold out the whole Tokyo Dome for an Okada/Naito title rematch in 2019. Like, Dominion sold out almost immediately because of Okada/Omega IV in the same arena, so that was smart short term booking, but...idk, I'm pessimistic about WK13 doing as well as WK12. With that said, NJPW is due another downturn at this rate, especially if AJPW picks up steam. Heck, if LIJ jumped ship to AJPW in the next year, that'd wreck NJPW's successes vvv quickly and Naito would be guaranteed a Triple Crown run.
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Sep 6, 2018 23:10
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Venomous posted:Call me pessimistic, but I don't see WK13 performing as well as it could. I mean, they'll probably redo Naito/Jericho with Naito going over, and Tanahashi/Omega'll be good, but...idk? Neither of those'll be massive draws. It all goes back to WK12: if Naito had gone over, he would've become both the greatest heel in Japan AND a goddamn megastar. Sure, he'd have turned face over the next year (and Okada would still be turning heel), but WK13 would've probably sold out the whole Tokyo Dome for an Okada/Naito title rematch in 2019. Like, Dominion sold out almost immediately because of Okada/Omega IV in the same arena, so that was smart short term booking, but...idk, I'm pessimistic about WK13 doing as well as WK12. The idea of LIJ jumping to All Japan is so ridiculous that it overshadows how silly it is to think Tanahashi vs Omega isn't a huge deal. Tanahashi is an absolutely giant star and draw. Omega is getting there. New Japan's business is so much hotter this year than it was last year too. Revenue is much higher, attendance is higher, and in ways that seemed impossible a few years ago. And this all happened peaking with Tanahashi winning the G1 went with what the fans in the building wanted to see, so it's pretty silly to think WM13 isn't doing as well as 12.
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Sep 7, 2018 01:36
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fwiw dave said they are expecting to genuinely sell out the dome this year
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Sep 7, 2018 02:02
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Does anyone know what the demos are for CMLL? Their Arena Mexico shows look pretty diverse in terms of age and gender
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Sep 7, 2018 02:08
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NJPW has been doing record business all year, dome show is going to be fine.
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Sep 7, 2018 02:09
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Smoking Crow posted:Does anyone know what the demos are for CMLL? Their Arena Mexico shows look pretty diverse in terms of age and gender lucha libre has mainstream appeal in mexico on a level wrestling in other countries just cannot reach.
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Sep 7, 2018 02:10
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Venomous posted:Call me pessimistic, but I don't see WK13 performing as well as it could. I mean, they'll probably redo Naito/Jericho with Naito going over, and Tanahashi/Omega'll be good, but...idk? Neither of those'll be massive draws. It all goes back to WK12: if Naito had gone over, he would've become both the greatest heel in Japan AND a goddamn megastar. Sure, he'd have turned face over the next year (and Okada would still be turning heel), but WK13 would've probably sold out the whole Tokyo Dome for an Okada/Naito title rematch in 2019. Like, Dominion sold out almost immediately because of Okada/Omega IV in the same arena, so that was smart short term booking, but...idk, I'm pessimistic about WK13 doing as well as WK12. ajpw typically held a different audience than njpw and njpw is on absolute fire right now. tanahashi is still a major major face and naito is going to be programmed with the hottest heel in the company at wrestle kingdom.
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Sep 7, 2018 02:12
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STONE COLD 64 posted:lucha libre has mainstream appeal in mexico on a level wrestling in other countries just cannot reach. I think it's fair to say El Santo was a Mexican cultural icon on the level of US sports stars like Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, and Michael Jordan
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Sep 7, 2018 02:24
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Jenkem Delivery posted:I think it's fair to say El Santo was a Mexican cultural icon on the level of US sports stars like Muhammad Ali, Babe Ruth, and Michael Jordan The president of Mexico attended his funeral, I believe. That's pretty drat significant.
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Sep 7, 2018 02:25
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STONE COLD 64 posted:lucha libre has mainstream appeal in mexico on a level wrestling in other countries just cannot reach. Only the old stars are close to "mainstream" figures and really only Atlantis is on that level. Atlantis is on the weaker end of that spectrum too. There's a cultural awareness that can allow it to gain acceptance but that doesn't keep companies from falling into huge holes like CMLL was at the end of Mistico's first run or AAA has been the last few years. This isn't years ago where both major companies have strong TV. CMLL doesn't even have TV like they did in years past!
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Sep 7, 2018 02:36
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MassRafTer posted:Only the old stars are close to "mainstream" figures and really only Atlantis is on that level. Atlantis is on the weaker end of that spectrum too. There's a cultural awareness that can allow it to gain acceptance but that doesn't keep companies from falling into huge holes like CMLL was at the end of Mistico's first run or AAA has been the last few years. This isn't years ago where both major companies have strong TV. CMLL doesn't even have TV like they did in years past! wasnt there gate issues years ago to the point they would only have mistico on live shows and not wrestle on tv so people would still buy tickets?
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Sep 7, 2018 02:37
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Venomous posted:Call me pessimistic, but I don't see WK13 performing as well as it could. I mean, they'll probably redo Naito/Jericho with Naito going over, and Tanahashi/Omega'll be good, but...idk? Neither of those'll be massive draws. It all goes back to WK12: if Naito had gone over, he would've become both the greatest heel in Japan AND a goddamn megastar. Sure, he'd have turned face over the next year (and Okada would still be turning heel), but WK13 would've probably sold out the whole Tokyo Dome for an Okada/Naito title rematch in 2019. Like, Dominion sold out almost immediately because of Okada/Omega IV in the same arena, so that was smart short term booking, but...idk, I'm pessimistic about WK13 doing as well as WK12. Uhhhhhhhhh. - Naito had been a face for like four months already when he got to WK12. - Their business didn't show a single blip after WK12. They did consecutive sellouts of the Budokan and everybody there lost their mind for Tanahashi so I think it's safe to say him going to the Tokyo Dome main event one more time is a huge draw. - Wwwwwwhyyyyy would LIJ ever jump to AJPW? I'm a big Naito mark (and I hate that contemptible scumbag Zack Sabre Jr) but I uh, I dunno where you're coming from here, I gotta say. Super No Vacancy posted:fwiw dave said they are expecting to genuinely sell out the dome this year 2020's on a weekend, that's the one, imo.
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Sep 7, 2018 02:38
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The whole week of New Years is a major Japanese holiday so the date doesn't matter like it would other times of the year
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Sep 7, 2018 02:44
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They're so confident about WK13 that they've opened extra seating
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Sep 7, 2018 05:50
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Speaking of promotions that should have a down swing https://twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/1037972004484182016 Dragons Gate having a rough year yup.
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Sep 7, 2018 20:23
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I feel bad for them in that all the clips I see look great but there is too much good wrestling right now and they end up getting bumped out of what I watch.
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Sep 7, 2018 20:35
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How much of a worker is Zack Ryder? It's hard to tell given he's never in matches longer than like five minutes.
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Sep 7, 2018 20:41
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SatoshiMiwa posted:Speaking of promotions that should have a down swing I don't know much about DG but have they really created any stars as big as the guys trained in Toryumon or the very early days?
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Sep 7, 2018 20:44
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Not really; they managed to elevate Kzy pretty well earlier this year, but his new unit, Natural Vibes, is currently spinning their wheels a bit with all the MaxiMum/ANTIAS defections going on. Speaking of those, Big R and Ben-K really stand to gain something from Shingo's departure, making them the top power guys in the company. And Eita ... is kinda over, but still floundering a bit, last I saw? I dunno, it's weird to judge where he's at these days. We'll have a better look at how DG's future is shaping up after Dangerous Gate on the 24th.
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Sep 7, 2018 21:05
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This is from a couple weeks back, but post a ridiculous wrestling video and I'll tell you how many felonies they committed (according to the Model Penal Code). Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woe6zwLFa-A Sting: Criminal Property Damage First Degree for throwing a brick through the window of a car (10 years max) Attempted Assault Second Degree for throwing the brick (Deadly weapon, 5 years max) Assault on a Law Enforcement Officer Second Degree for shoving the cop (1 year max) Unauthorized Control of a Propelled Vehicle for stealing the cop car (5 years max) Theft Second Degree for stealing the cop car (5 years max, no way that car is worth more than $20K) Robbery Second Degree for shoving the cop and then stealing the cop car (10 years max) Possible 36 years in prison for what happened in a 44 second video. Sting would most likely be sentenced to a concurrent 10 year term if he went to trial and lost (in a non-lovely jurisdiction).
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Sep 8, 2018 07:46
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what would Kurt angles career have been like (and would it have changed the trajectory of ecw) had he not bolted after the sandman crucifixion thing? he was a Pennsylvania celebrity, and by all accounts an absolute natural, so it only makes sense that he'd probably be a big star for them, but he never wrestled for ecw before he left, did he? i mean I'm not saying it'd be likely ecw would still be running (Paul e having the business acumen of Paul e after all) but it's interesting to think about.
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Sep 8, 2018 07:59
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VJeff posted:How much of a worker is Zack Ryder? It's hard to tell given he's never in matches longer than like five minutes. He's...okay? Nothing special but can do a good midcard babyface routine
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Sep 8, 2018 08:14
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remember when he did a 450
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Sep 8, 2018 08:16
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Super No Vacancy posted:remember when he did a 450 I legit forgot so thank you for this.
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Sep 8, 2018 09:51
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Tokelau All Star posted:This is from a couple weeks back, but post a ridiculous wrestling video and I'll tell you how many felonies they committed (according to the Model Penal Code). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zSVAyiYkMI
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Sep 8, 2018 10:08
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:He's...okay? Nothing special but can do a good midcard babyface routine Yeah, he'd be by far the best guy on your average high school gym indie show, but as far as top level talent either in or out of WWE, he's a B-. Fine, can connect well with the right crowd, but doesn't do anything that stands out all that much. .
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Sep 8, 2018 15:40
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Tokelau All Star posted:This is from a couple weeks back, but post a ridiculous wrestling video and I'll tell you how many felonies they committed (according to the Model Penal Code). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JvzbnfysZg Gaz-L posted:Yeah, he'd be by far the best guy on your average high school gym indie show, but as far as top level talent either in or out of WWE, he's a B-. Fine, can connect well with the right crowd, but doesn't do anything that stands out all that much. . Well, I still want him to leave and give the indies a shot.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:13
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Nash: Reckless Endangering I for running the Steiners off the road (5 years) Terroristic Threatening I for banging into their car with his car (deadly weapon, 5 years) Criminal Property Damage I for causing the car to be destroyed (IDK how much that car would have been worth in the 90s, 10 years) Accidents Involving Death/Serious Bodily Injury, Leaving the Scene (10 years) and finally Attempted Murder I (two people in the same incident, life without parole) He'd probably plead down to a 10/10 consecutive with parole.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:57
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shiksa posted:what would Kurt angles career have been like (and would it have changed the trajectory of ecw) had he not bolted after the sandman crucifixion thing? he was a Pennsylvania celebrity, and by all accounts an absolute natural, so it only makes sense that he'd probably be a big star for them, but he never wrestled for ecw before he left, did he? Probably similar, but WWF or WCW would have signed him quickly after.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:00
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After a WrestleMania, I think; Punk, Bryan and Ryder all came out with their newly won belts to cut promos, as the people's chosen champions. Punk and Bryan gave heartfelt thanks and congratulations all around, and genuinely were great. Ryder basically just gave his catchphrase and nothing else. I'm sure I'm leaving some things out but this is how it stuck in my head. To me, that's always how I'll see Ryder. Could he have been better with a sustained push and working with people that could elevate him? Maybe!
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