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Ok, that Steam crash from Corsair is really bad. The CoolerMaster MK750 seems to be exactly what I want though and I can get it for 95€.
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Sep 1, 2018 16:07
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My MS Natural Keyboard Pro from 1999 died after I spilled coffee all over it. I absolutely loved that keyboard. It had great ergonomics (fit my huge hands like a glove), great feeling key switches, and a built-in 2 port USB hub. It also worked great for gaming. The large contoured buttons were awesome. I have no idea what key switches it used, but I've never found anything that feels as nice other than Topre. I've tried a Natural 4000, but the keys feel like mushy garbage and they got rid of the USB hub. It also has a different shape that doesn't feel good in my hands. The mushy keys make it fatiguing to type on. My question is, is anyone making something that's basically a modernized Natural Pro, just maybe with mechanical switches? I don't want a Kinesis Advantage. I need a ten key, and I don't want to learn a weird layout. I have owned a few mechanical keyboards in the past with key switches including MX Blues, MX Browns, buckling spring, and Topre. I kept going to back to my Natural Pro due to the lack of ergonomics on the mechanical keyboards I tried. This is the keyboard I'm talking about, since it's almost 20 years old, and you might not know what I'm referring to: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/andypennell/2013/04/03/the-best-microsoft-keyboard-ever-the-natural-keyboard-pro/  I think it's the best drat keyboard ever made. Even better than the Model M. I want that keyboard, but with mechanical key switches. Anyone making anything like that? Anything in the works? Why do so few of the mech keyboards have ergonomics? Why did MS make something so great and then abandon it to make garbage? Dick Fagballzson fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Sep 4, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2018 05:19
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There are quite a few ergonomic mechanical keyboards... they're usually split in half and have adjustable "tenting", but as far as I'm aware they're all ortholinear in an attempt to be even more ergonomic. They're mostly all kits too, so there's that. Check out the Ergodox and Iris. You'd have to buy/build a 10-key if you wanted one, but it's doable. I'm pretty sure those aren't even remotely what you're looking for, but I doubt you'll ever find it. I, too, lost a Microsoft peripheral long ago. RIP in peace, Intellimouse Optical. There are even Chinese manufacturers printing exact replicas but they aren't the same.
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Sep 4, 2018 08:43
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Dick Fagballzson posted:My MS Natural Keyboard Pro from 1999 died after I spilled coffee all over it. I absolutely loved that keyboard. It had great ergonomics (fit my huge hands like a glove), great feeling key switches, and a built-in 2 port USB hub. It also worked great for gaming. The large contoured buttons were awesome. I have no idea what key switches it used, but I've never found anything that feels as nice other than Topre. Here you go. Price isn't really out of line with upper end mechanical boards. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Natural-Keyboard-Pro-New-Sealed/142926667511?epid=74049874&hash=item214717def7:g:EC4AAOSw7thbjgt8
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Sep 4, 2018 16:12
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AgentCow007 posted:There are quite a few ergonomic mechanical keyboards... they're usually split in half and have adjustable "tenting", but as far as I'm aware they're all ortholinear in an attempt to be even more ergonomic. They're mostly all kits too, so there's that. Check out the Ergodox and Iris. You'd have to buy/build a 10-key if you wanted one, but it's doable. Still using my intellimouse at work. I'm going to keep loving it and using it until the end. RIP 
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Sep 4, 2018 17:04
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My last non-mechanical keyboard was the Microsoft Sculpt, which is very similar to the Natural Pro. Unfortunately, the closest thing I've been able to find to it is the LZ Ergo, an extremely limited run designed by a guy in Korea. It also lacks the numpad, but you can always get a separate mechanical numpad pretty easily. Even more unfortunately, you can only (and rarely) find the LZ Ergo in secondhand markets, often going for several hundreds of dollars.
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Sep 5, 2018 00:09
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64bit_Dophins posted:Still using my intellimouse at work. I'm going to keep loving it and using it until the end. RIP I too am an Intellimouse fan. The Zowie EC1-A is the closest I could get to it in design with a modern mouse.
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Sep 5, 2018 01:27
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Dick Fagballzson posted:I too am an Intellimouse fan. The Zowie EC1-A is the closest I could get to it in design with a modern mouse. I found the Steelseries Sensei Raw to be very close to it in shape and nice to use, but they die fast and the newest Sensei is a textured gamer abortion. I have the Zowie too and it's not bad. Someone needs to make interchangeable mouse parts like mechanical keyboards do with switches so we can just build an endgame mouse and repair parts as we go.
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Sep 5, 2018 03:56
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I'm sure this isn't exactly right but MS makes the Intellimouse again: https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/mice/microsoft-classic-intellimouse
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Sep 7, 2018 16:16
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redeyes posted:I'm sure this isn't exactly right but MS makes the Intellimouse again: https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/mice/microsoft-classic-intellimouse Yeah... there are several versions and they remade the wrong one (Explorer 3.0 instead of the Optical 1.1)
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Sep 7, 2018 19:45
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redeyes posted:I'm sure this isn't exactly right but MS makes the Intellimouse again: https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/mice/microsoft-classic-intellimouse It's not the same - I want them to make the old Optical Intellimouse. Maybe when my beloved mouse goes I'll go out and get the new one to try it out but I'm sure it won't be the same
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Sep 7, 2018 20:21
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Got some new keycaps today The K legend was printed upside down, and the L key was completely missing, but Massdrop gave me a duplicate J key. Got a support ticket open hoping for proper replacements
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Sep 8, 2018 01:45
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AgentCow007 posted:Yeah... there are several versions and they remade the wrong one (Explorer 3.0 instead of the Optical 1.1) Nope The grey rat was always better than the white mouse version for big handers
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Sep 8, 2018 02:16
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HappyCapybaraFamily posted:Got some new keycaps today Just when I thought it couldn't get worse..
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Sep 8, 2018 02:17
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How sacrilegious would it be to take a beat to poo poo AEK2 and solder in new matias switches
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Sep 8, 2018 02:24
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redeyes posted:Just when I thought it couldn't get worse.. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the world around you, but at best it's not going to get better anytime soon
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Sep 8, 2018 02:25
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HappyCapybaraFamily posted:My last non-mechanical keyboard was the Microsoft Sculpt, which is very similar to the Natural Pro. Unfortunately, the closest thing I've been able to find to it is the LZ Ergo, an extremely limited run designed by a guy in Korea. It also lacks the numpad, but you can always get a separate mechanical numpad pretty easily. Yeah, these days I use a split Microsoft scout because of my minor rsi issues reddit just posted a LZ board too and it looks amazing, but it’s $500 and it was a limited drop 😢😢. I’ll keep my eyes out if they come up again, it’s what I really want
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Sep 8, 2018 07:04
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Are there any notable downsides to boards supporting hot-swappable switches (other than price)? Mainly wondering if the switches would end up slightly wobbly or anything like that vs. soldered. I'm way behind on the switch scene and would like to be able try a bunch of options without going through a full cycle of desoldering and soldering every time.
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Sep 9, 2018 13:53
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As long as the plate's built to tolerances properly, they work great. They're kinda a bitch to get in and out properly (because it's a really snug fit, and if you're not careful you can bend/break the pins on the switches), but once they're in place you can't even tell they're not soldered.
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Sep 9, 2018 14:30
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ChineseBuffet posted:Are there any notable downsides to boards supporting hot-swappable switches (other than price)? Mainly wondering if the switches would end up slightly wobbly or anything like that vs. soldered. I'm way behind on the switch scene and would like to be able try a bunch of options without going through a full cycle of desoldering and soldering every time. Nope. If anything, hotswappable sockets keep the switches more aligned. You have a lot of room for things to be misaligned on most solder-only boards. (if you're using plate mount switches) Only downside I can think of is that some of the mainstream hotswappable boards don't have holes for the legs of PCB mount switches. So you'd have to clip them: 
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Sep 9, 2018 15:54
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So I've finally decided to try out mechanical keyboards. I'm currently waiting for a cherry switch tester to see which switches would suit me and which ones won't make my girlfriend try to kill me. Meanwhile I'm trying to see which keyboard or setup would suit me best. I usually use a German keyboard layout (qwertz) but since I'm a software engineer I was thinking about making the transition to the US qwerty layout. If you have ever looked at a qwertz keyboard and are a programmer you will understand why it might make sense. So my idea would be to buy a keyboard with the normal qwertz layout, which I overall like for the big return key (see: http://clasfaculty.ucdenver.edu/tphillips/QWERTZ.jpg). But then also buy the english key caps extra (the ones that are not the same as on the german layout) and switch these out. This way I can always go back if I don't get accustomed to using the qwerty layout and didn't waste a lot of money on a keyboard I don't want to use. Does this make any sense at all or should I rather just buy two different keyboards, one qwertz and one qwerty? Also can you recommend me any keyboards in the 80-100€ range that actually have this layout with the big return key, or at least give me a hint how this (physical) layout is called, so I can effectively search for it?
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Sep 12, 2018 21:39
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Your layout is the ISO (DE) layout. Unfortunately, even regular ISO layout keyboards can be slim pickings out there, or you'd have to pay extra to get the right keycaps. If you really do want to switch to US qwerty (called ANSI layout), then you'd open up your options and get to save some money.
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Sep 12, 2018 21:50
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Constellation I posted:Your layout is the ISO (DE) layout. Unfortunately, even regular ISO layout keyboards can be slim pickings out there, or you'd have to pay extra to get the right keycaps. If you really do want to switch to US qwerty (called ANSI layout), then you'd open up your options and get to save some money. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and learn to type on ANSI layout. It's just hard to hit the key consistently if you are used to it being twice the size 
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Sep 12, 2018 22:06
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Malefitz posted:I assume there are no boards that can use both ISO and ANSI style return keys at the same time, right? Do you really use the upper part of the key for enter? I've had keyboards with big rear end enter keys before and I didn't have a problem switching away from it because I'd just hit the left side of it with my right pinky finger anyway.
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Sep 12, 2018 22:25
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I believe there aren't much, if any because the stabilizers would need to be in different places and you need room for a switch on the left for ISO. Can probably do it if you don't use stabs and use hotswap sockets for where the keys will need to be for all layouts. Basically:  vs 
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Sep 12, 2018 22:31
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Rexxed posted:Do you really use the upper part of the key for enter? I've had keyboards with big rear end enter keys before and I didn't have a problem switching away from it because I'd just hit the left side of it with my right pinky finger anyway. I do hit it occasionally whenever I have to use an ANSI keyboard. It's muzzle memory I guess, I have typed my whole life on the ISO layout... Shouldn't be too hard to get used to ANSI but I'm still a bit reluctant just because if I don't like it I'm stuck with an expensive keyboard I don't like to use. Maybe I should buy a cheap 10€ ANSI keyboard first and see if I can get used to it  Constellation I posted:I believe there aren't much, if any because the stabilizers would need to be in different places and you need room for a switch on the left for ISO. Can probably do it if you don't use stabs and use hotswap sockets for where the keys will need to be for all layouts. Ah, I see. Does it make sense to use large keys like return without stabs? And what exactly are hotswap sockets?
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Sep 12, 2018 22:42
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Large keys without stabs would be unstable (lol) and feel like poo poo. Hotswap sockets are like little metal sleeves on custom keyboard PCB's. You can then hotswap switches in and out without soldering them in. So basically, in your theoretical keyboard that can support both enter keys, it'll have the appropriate sockets in the right spots and you can just take the switches in and out in between the 2 configurations. Anyway, I wouldn't bother and advise to just stick to one layout.
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Sep 13, 2018 00:20
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Ok, thanks. I think now I have a better idea of what I want and what is possible. Just need to wait for the switch tester now
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Sep 13, 2018 06:18
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Mykeyboard.eu usually has ISO DE keyboards in stock. ISO is the devil though, use Gods own layout: ANSI. Also an obligatory “gently caress qwertz” remark. As a qwerty user it makes you suicidal. That and dubbing are the worst things things ever invented in Germany.
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Sep 13, 2018 08:13
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Zikes, no need to hate on the German kezboard lazout so bitterlz, zeesh
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Sep 13, 2018 22:20
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I've been using a keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches for gaming and I'm not liking it very much. I think I'd like to go for Cherry MX Brown or Clear. Any recommendation for a low-frills full-size keyboard that will last me a good while? I'm just looking to mash buttons in games like World of Warcraft without giving myself carpal tunnel.
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Sep 14, 2018 02:21
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100 degrees Calcium posted:I've been using a keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches for gaming and I'm not liking it very much. I think I'd like to go for Cherry MX Brown or Clear. Any recommendation for a low-frills full-size keyboard that will last me a good while? I'm just looking to mash buttons in games like World of Warcraft without giving myself carpal tunnel. Can't speak to long term durability, but I'm a big fan of the velocifire with (non- cherry) browns that's like $50 on Amazon.
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Sep 14, 2018 02:54
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Malefitz posted:Ok, thanks. I think now I have a better idea of what I want and what is possible. For what it's worth I've recently switched from a full size ISO Nordic layout to a tiny 40% keyboard with everything on layers and the transition away from a big enter key was hardly noticable. Of course YMMV, we're all different, etc etc... Mine was programmable though, so I got to keep all my funky Norwegian characters and tweak it to my liking! The firmware and programming/flashing process involved is pretty straightforward and since you're a software engineer you may already have some experience with the steps involved. Being able to fully customize your keyboard is pretty awesome, so add that to your list of cool mechanical keyboard things to consider! 
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Sep 14, 2018 06:43
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forkbucket posted:Mine was programmable though, so I got to keep all my funky Norwegian characters and tweak it to my liking!
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Sep 14, 2018 08:36
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I like it very very much so far! For my setup I kept most of the shifted characters in roughly the same spot, I wasn't too keen on relearning all those! Here's an overview of the layers if you're interested. The keyboard is a UT47, which is somewhat based on the Planck AFAIK but with a bit of a stagger instead of a pure ortholinear layout. Initially got it to bring back and forth with me to work or when traveling, but it was so much fun to use that it's become my daily driver and preferred keyboard.
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Sep 15, 2018 05:29
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LochNessMonster posted:Mykeyboard.eu usually has ISO DE keyboards in stock. ISO is the devil though, use Gods own layout: ANSI. That last part, I... I agree. I guess I will have my try with the ANSI layout. I don't really see its superiority to be honest as ISO has one additional key and I don't really need the longer left shift key personally. Perhaps it is helpful if you have a very structured typing method, which I don't have. forkbucket posted:For what it's worth I've recently switched from a full size ISO Nordic layout to a tiny 40% keyboard with everything on layers and the transition away from a big enter key was hardly noticable. Of course YMMV, we're all different, etc etc... I think I'm going to stay with the full size layout though, at least for now. I would really miss having a numpad and I'm also not too fond of macros and stuff, I'd rather have some more keys. Oh, also I'm a gamer and sometimes the additional keys not hidden behind function key presses are helpful. But thanks for the hint anyway, maybe it will be useful in the future!
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Sep 15, 2018 09:02
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So my cherry switch tester arrived. I really like the brown switches and I guess I will go with these for now. I really prefer the quieter sound of the O-rings, that came with the tester. But it does make the typing feel a bit more squishy. The OP talks about some good alternatives to O-rings "(...) new solutions coming out like sound dampening clamps or specially designed quiet switches." but doesn't go into great details about these alternatives. Can someone clarify if these "dampening clamps" are actually worth it or if there exists a quieter switch that feels like the cherry brown?
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Sep 15, 2018 09:29
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So I've been waiting for a while for Iris PCBs to show up on keeb.io, and now that they're finally restocked, I've gone ahead and pulled the trigger on everything I need to make a MiniDox instead https://github.com/That-Canadian/MiniDox_PCB Mmmmmmm So what are the cool kids into for linears these days? I really liked the sound of lubed Gateron Yellows on Youtube, but I'm worried about wobble since the Gat Blues I got are pretty lovely in that department. I was kind of checking out the Kailh Pro Burgundys but I haven't seen anyone review them yet. Maybe Kailh Box Reds with Gateron Yellow springs? Help me, kweebs. Malefitz posted:So my cherry switch tester arrived. I really like the brown switches and I guess I will go with these for now. I believe the clips are called Zealencios, but there are also switches that have rubber bits fused into the stem that cushion both the downstroke and upstroke... I think Cherry has a MX Silent series. There are lots of reviews on YT of either one, or both on the same keyboard. AgentCow007 fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Sep 15, 2018 |
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Sep 15, 2018 12:02
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Malefitz posted:So my cherry switch tester arrived. I really like the brown switches and I guess I will go with these for now. Are you building a board? There are gateron silent brown switches.
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Sep 15, 2018 13:47
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AgentCow007 posted:So what are the cool kids into for linears these days? I really liked the sound of lubed Gateron Yellows on Youtube, but I'm worried about wobble since the Gat Blues I got are pretty lovely in that department. I was kind of checking out the Kailh Pro Burgundys but I haven't seen anyone review them yet. Maybe Kailh Box Reds with Gateron Yellow springs? Help me, kweebs. How heavy of a spring are you into? Kailh Box Heavy Dark Yellow feels like a dream to me, but they're 70g, and that's pretty rough for some people.
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Sep 15, 2018 15:05
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