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It's not like there have never been gods in D&D who have exceptions to the rules. Doesn't Saint Cuthbert refuse Evil worshippers even though he's LN?
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Sep 7, 2018 19:25
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:If the crayon stories are to be believed, The Dark One only came about as of this world. Then again, I think all of the crayon stories are lies or misleading partial truths. I feel that the majority of what Shojo relayed to the Order is still mostly accurate. There are a few details here and there which turned out to be wrong, but that's more down to Shojo not having all the facts than an attempt to deliberately mislead. It's the stuff in Start of Darkness that I feel is seriously in question in light of these new revelations. Most notably the idea that the goblinoids and other various monster races were explicitly created by the gods after the world was already finished specifically to be easy fodder for the gods' clerics to level up against.
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Sep 7, 2018 19:26
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derra posted:Thor can't be CG, right? He's half CG and half practical effects.
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Sep 8, 2018 03:06
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W.T. Fits posted:It's the stuff in Start of Darkness that I feel is seriously in question in light of these new revelations. Most notably the idea that the goblinoids and other various monster races were explicitly created by the gods after the world was already finished specifically to be easy fodder for the gods' clerics to level up against. Maybe this is the first world with Goblins. Instead of what's described in SoD, the gods could have said, hey, we need more powerful mortals in this iteration, cause as we've seen the weakass ones we had in the first few million don't cut it. Or all the crayon bits are pieces of the story as it developed across several iterations of the world. Could Soon and his gang actually have had their adventures in the previous world? Don't the gods always use the same strings to make a new world? Maybe they're literally reusing plot threads that bleed through into the new world.
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Sep 8, 2018 09:54
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Wasn't the Order informed that the Dark One wasn't told the full story? Back in paladin city.
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Sep 8, 2018 11:07
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It being the first world with goblins makes sense.
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Sep 8, 2018 13:11
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It also might just be the first world that's persisted long enough for the goblins to get sufficiently pissed off at their lot in life to do something about it. Given Hel's consternation about her wager with Thor, despite how many failures they've suffered and how the scale of time and failure ought to have inured her to such, this world has probably lived for a great deal longer than their previous worlds.
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Sep 8, 2018 13:15
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Rich has been pretty explicit that the Dark One doesn't know the full story, and there is still no reason to believe that he's the first ascended mortal to try to gently caress with the original gods using the rifts.
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Sep 8, 2018 15:19
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Gynovore posted:OK, so, if the gods destroy the world, the souls go happily to the afterlife (unhappily for the dwarves) but if the Snarl escapes, all the souls get eaten... Allow me to tell you about Jonathan Hickman's run on New Avengers*... *= Which has started and concluded while OOTS was running. And the Incursions plot was not a quick run.
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Sep 8, 2018 15:35
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Rich has been pretty explicit that the Dark One doesn't know the full story, and there is still no reason to believe that he's the first ascended mortal to try to gently caress with the original gods using the rifts. See planetary gravestones #127 through #34,287 for more details.
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Sep 8, 2018 16:49
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Its possible that durkob and minrah are the first mortals to ever learn the extent of the gods’ failure. The fact that they are learning about it suggests something is special about this world, or the consequences of losing it.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:36
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If this world goes, the Dark One is in the creation game for the next one. He's his own pantheon and will probably pull against all the others to support his goblins, and that's gonna aggravate the whole Snarl situation. He doesn't play by the traditional divine rules. They could accomodate him, but Start of Darkness tells us the whole business with clerics gaining levels and power and goblins being literal XP fodder is part of a power balance system between the pantheons. If they bump up goblins to a regular PC race, they need new XP fodder to keep that balance system (else: Snarl), but a) the Dark One may not look kindly on a new race being doomed to repeat his goblins' fate and b) they're just setting themselves up for creating another XP fodder deity like him.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:09
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I suspect it’s bigger than that, and whatever the situation is plays into whatever the ICCs ultimate plan is
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Sep 8, 2018 18:15
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My Lovely Horse posted:If this world goes, the Dark One is in the creation game for the next one. He's his own pantheon and will probably pull against all the others to support his goblins, and that's gonna aggravate the whole Snarl situation. He doesn't play by the traditional divine rules. Nah. This is what Redcloak and the Dark One assume will happen, but not necessarily what is going to happen. I think it's a safe bet that any god that fucks with the fabric of creation and schemes to murder the other gods is getting uninvited from the Astral Plane safe space and will have to contend with the Snarl. Any favors to the goblin people will have to either be granted by mortals in the current world, or through the mercy of the gods in the next.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:30
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I think the snarl is just the real world, and it's destroyed countless game worlds as campaigns end due to lack of time or interest.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:46
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:I think the snarl is just the real world, and it's destroyed countless game worlds as campaigns end due to lack of time or interest. That's what it represents but I really really hope the solution to the Snarl isn't some meta bullshit, and I have faith in Rich that the Snarl as a thing in story and the Snarl as what it represents in meta are distinct enough.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:51
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My Lovely Horse posted:If this world goes, the Dark One is in the creation game for the next one. He's his own pantheon and will probably pull against all the others to support his goblins, and that's gonna aggravate the whole Snarl situation. He doesn't play by the traditional divine rules. The rules do not seem set up for actual new pantheon. The elves just vote alongside the western gods, no reason to think the dark one wouldn't be slotted in Somewhere for voting purposes.
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Sep 8, 2018 19:29
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Rich has been pretty explicit that the Dark One doesn't know the full story, and there is still no reason to believe that he's the first ascended mortal to try to gently caress with the original gods using the rifts. That actually brings up another thought: how the hell is the realm of the gods not bursting at the seams with deities that would have come into being from believers on previous worlds? Unless every single one of the previous ones didn’t even last long enough to get advanced civilizations that could think of new ones, there should be at least dozens of other gods if we’re lowballing and assuming that only the last 1% of the worlds they’ve made had multi-digit lifespans.
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Sep 8, 2018 20:00
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I think there will probably be a revelation where upraised gods don't get to carry on to the next world for some reason (see my previous posts for my hypothesis), meaning Redcloak will be, with his Plan A failing, about to destroy the Gate to force Plan B, and the Order reveals that all he would be doing is committing genocide for no gain. And at the end he'll stand down and not do it, foreshadowed by him not killing the prisoners when interrogating O'Chul. That Redcloak might be Evil but killing people for no gain to his cause is over his line.
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Sep 8, 2018 20:42
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Regalingualius posted:That actually brings up another thought: how the hell is the realm of the gods not bursting at the seams with deities that would have come into being from believers on previous worlds? Unless every single one of the previous ones didn’t even last long enough to get advanced civilizations that could think of new ones, there should be at least dozens of other gods if we’re lowballing and assuming that only the last 1% of the worlds they’ve made had multi-digit lifespans. I guess that if you don't get invited to a pantheon then none of the other gods talk to you or warn you about the Snarl. It's in their own best interest to let you go down with the rest of that creation rather than helping you survive and having to share souls with you in future iterations.
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Sep 8, 2018 20:42
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Is there anything saying all of the pantheon members were there from the beginning? Gods might have been uplifted and then invited into one of the big three. Especially if the Snarl is still taking the occasional casualty.
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Sep 8, 2018 21:27
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My Lovely Horse posted:If this world goes, the Dark One is in the creation game for the next one. He's his own pantheon and will probably pull against all the others to support his goblins, and that's gonna aggravate the whole Snarl situation. He doesn't play by the traditional divine rules. So the Dark One is instrumental in helping to create Pathfinder? Gotcha.
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Sep 8, 2018 21:54
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reignonyourparade posted:The rules do not seem set up for actual new pantheon. The elves just vote alongside the western gods, no reason to think the dark one wouldn't be slotted in Somewhere for voting purposes. Regalingualius posted:That actually brings up another thought: how the hell is the realm of the gods not bursting at the seams with deities that would have come into being from believers on previous worlds? Unless every single one of the previous ones didn’t even last long enough to get advanced civilizations that could think of new ones, there should be at least dozens of other gods if we’re lowballing and assuming that only the last 1% of the worlds they’ve made had multi-digit lifespans. The existing gods welcomed the Elven gods, probably because they put in the groundwork, so to speak, but the Dark One is explicitly named as a pantheon of one. Plus, if they did want to slot him in somewhere for voting, they could have done it right at the Godsmoot.
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Sep 8, 2018 23:11
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Regalingualius posted:That actually brings up another thought: how the hell is the realm of the gods not bursting at the seams with deities that would have come into being from believers on previous worlds? Unless every single one of the previous ones didn’t even last long enough to get advanced civilizations that could think of new ones, there should be at least dozens of other gods if we’re lowballing and assuming that only the last 1% of the worlds they’ve made had multi-digit lifespans. You've reinvented the Great Filter!   My Lovely Horse posted:This is all from Start of Darkness again: it took a few centuries of gaining followers for the Elven gods to ascend. For the Dark One, it was a year-long goblin revenge crusade that took a million lives. Gotta have a world that sticks around that long or has goblins to begin with for either of those. Although, of course, this is all from crayon pages. He isn't a complete pariah, the evil gods vouched for him not to be smacked down and the good gods agreed.
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Sep 8, 2018 23:27
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:I think the snarl is just the real world, and it's destroyed countless game worlds as campaigns end due to lack of time or interest. Rich has broken the fourth wall many times, but I really don't think he'll go there.
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Sep 8, 2018 23:45
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In particular, the comic has called out that the story does not represent anyone's D&D game.
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Sep 9, 2018 01:31
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Tenebrais posted:In particular, the comic has called out that the story does not represent anyone's D&D game. Yeah it represents everyones
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Sep 9, 2018 08:16
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Regalingualius posted:That actually brings up another thought: how the hell is the realm of the gods not bursting at the seams with deities that would have come into being from believers on previous worlds? Unless every single one of the previous ones didn’t even last long enough to get advanced civilizations that could think of new ones, there should be at least dozens of other gods if we’re lowballing and assuming that only the last 1% of the worlds they’ve made had multi-digit lifespans. I assume the lifespan of worlds is an exponential curve between "4" and however old this world is... "multiple hundreds of years" is the largest estimate I've heard on that. And then there're probably a bunch of confounding factors on top of that. How many worlds where the Order of the Scribble failed to create the Gates, or where nobody even noticed the rifts at all, or where there were a hundred rifts, or the Gods weren't able to put aside their bickering, or so on and so forth. Ultimately, like in real life, this story is playing out in this world because it's the only world it could have played out in. Yes, the chances of it getting to this exact point are tiny, but on an infinite timescale all chances are effectively 100%.
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Sep 10, 2018 11:17
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MarquiseMindfang posted:I assume the lifespan of worlds is an exponential curve between "4" and however old this world is... "multiple hundreds of years" is the largest estimate I've heard on that. The year is 1184 by their dating system, and Shojo said it had been over a thousand years since the creation of this world. We can probably accept it at face value, seems to fit. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 11:25
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Don't forget a possible Song of Ice and Fire curveball where maybe the world's dating system isn't as reliable as we think it is.
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Sep 10, 2018 14:46
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There’s also Last Thursdayism, which is the possibility that the world was created with an entire history and chronology, so everyone thinks the world was created a thousand years ago when they really just popped into being immediately before strip #1.
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Sep 10, 2018 17:35
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There's also explicitly multiple calendars in the world, and there's no reason to believe the Azurite calendar marks the year of creation. The world could be much older, or even younger than 1184 years. That's only like two elf lifespans.
Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 20:10
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Raenir Salazar posted:Don't forget a possible Song of Ice and Fire curveball where maybe the world's dating system isn't as reliable as we think it is. I kinda stopped following the plot of aSoIaF a while ago, what's this about?
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Sep 11, 2018 14:45
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my dad posted:I kinda stopped following the plot of aSoIaF a while ago, what's this about? It's still mostly a fan theory, but there's evidence in the text to suggest that the calendar and the course of history happened on a much shorter timespan than originally believed. Sam was diving into the history of the Watch through a lot of really old books and logs and it was mostly a side thing but clearly it's set up for some sort of pay off in a later book. Some people it's meant to foreshadow the Nights King being Bran the Builder all the way to the world being some sort of space scifi crashed colony thing.
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Sep 11, 2018 15:05
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I'm sure you'll find out some time before 2040.
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Sep 11, 2018 15:41
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We joke about how long OotS has taken but it's pretty clearly going to finish before Game of Thrones.
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Sep 11, 2018 16:36
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SuperKlaus posted:We joke about how long OotS has taken but it's pretty clearly going to finish before Game of Thrones. From what I've heard, I'm pretty sure the heat death of the universe will finish before Game of Thrones.
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Sep 11, 2018 18:42
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W.T. Fits posted:From what I've heard, I'm pretty sure the heat death of the universe will finish before Game of Thrones. A Song of Ice and Fire indeed.
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Sep 11, 2018 18:44
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I gave up on it like a decade ago. As far as I'm concerned, GoT has the true end of the series and it's over when it's done.
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Sep 11, 2018 19:17
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:There's also explicitly multiple calendars in the world, and there's no reason to believe the Azurite calendar marks the year of creation. The world could be much older, or even younger than 1184 years. That's only like two elf lifespans. Shojo seemed think the world was a little over a thousand years old. Yes there could be another twist, but it seems to fit for now.
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Sep 11, 2018 19:27
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