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CelticPredator posted:That’s a great post and I agree. I’m not even kidding when I say Gunn not doing GOTG again makes me legit sad. I just rewatched the first one the other day and it’s for me, incredible. The dudes work just gets to me on a deep level. It’s been like that since SLiTHER. It's a little better knowing someone out there gets it.  AceOfFlames posted:I will never understand having the level of stubbornness or self-absorption required to stick by a decision literally THOUSANDS of people say was a mistake. YOLOsubmarine posted:Thousands of people isn’t very many. There are tens of millions of Americans who think we should torture folks or outlaw Islam or abortion or go to war with Iran. Do you disagree with them? The petition on Change.org to Re-Hire James Gunn is still going strong despite all the news and is about to crest 400,000 signatures. That's pretty drat impressive. There's also a bunch of other petitions to rehire Gunn (why so many?) which all have between 1000 and 20,000 backers. Meanwhile the right wing counterpetition to double down on punishing Gunn and not rehiring him just passed.... ummmm.... 4,312 signatures. That seems about right if used as a benchmark for support for/against Disney's decision based on what else I've seen across the web. Horn is basically appeasing the nastiest, smallest, least profitable possible segment of Disney/Marvel consumers by not waking the gently caress up and fixing his colossal end of career giant bedshit. Which is why I am so boggled and picking at straws to try to figure out a concrete reason Horn hasn't acknowledged that he helped Nazis commit career assassination and reversed course, condemned Cernovich, and apologized. You know, like a halfway competent second in command of a major entertainment company should do to avoid massive losses and continuous backlash.
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Sep 8, 2018 00:56
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I'm with you. This whole situation makes me sick in my guts whenever I think about it. I looked forward to each new MCU movie; I was guaranteed a good time. Now, just gently caress them. I'm not gonna lie, I'll buy the Blu-ray, but I have no desire to go see an MCU movie in the theater ever again. I missed Ant-Man and the Wasp because the thought of sitting in a theater and giving them money felt to much like condoning their behavior. Yes, I would have skipped Infinity War, too, if this had happened earlier. As excited as I am about Captain Marvel, I'll likely just watch YouTube videos about it, like I did for Suicide Squad and Justice League.
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Sep 8, 2018 02:19
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Aleph Null posted:I'm with you. This whole situation makes me sick in my guts whenever I think about it. I looked forward to each new MCU movie; I was guaranteed a good time. You really kinda cheated yourself by skipping AMatW. It was better than the first one! But I understand where you're coming from. It's like the air has been let out of the Disney/Marvel balloon. I'm not hyped for Captain Marvel at all after all of this, although unless it's panned by critics I'll probably see it, and you can be drat sure I won't spend money in a theater to take my family to any future GotG adaptations in theaters without James Gunn at the helm. ...and of course I'll be seeing IW2 even though the news about actors being called back for script reshoots after Disney backstabbed Gunn really makes me sad. But that one is a must-see even if Disney has castrated it. Even a bad finale is better than none after all these films leading up to it. Disney does NOT have the clout to make me do that again in the future though. Once IW2 is done and this phase of the MCU ends, I got no strings on me. I guess what I'm saying is that I enjoy these films enough to pay attention to news about them, and back off if it seems that Disney is screwing everything up and continuing to override Marvel's decisions. I'm basically the guy that Horn and Cernovich and others out there says doesn't exist. I know I'm not alone either. Which is why I think Disney's got a nasty surprise coming up if they think that these films are low enough down the entertainment totem pole that people will continue to flock to the brand names alone and spend premium ticket money and buy merchandise and ride theme park rides based on them even if everything special is sucked out of them. Heh, reminds me of the Sony/Ghostbusters reboot again. God that was such a wasted opportunity. A good example how a studio can take an elephant sized dump on a golden goose if they fail to recognize what makes an intellectual property special, which is what I think is part of what Disney and Horn's huge mistake in this whole James Gunn fiasco is. (With Ghostbusters it was that fans craved a continuation of the story, not a full on reboot that gender-swapped their heroes. A continuation with women Ghostbusters would have been fine but we didn't get that. What we got was horrifically bad... but I'll quit derailing.) Makes me wonder what Horn did to get fired just as unceremoniously from Warner Bros in 2011 as Horn just fired Gunn from Disney.
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Sep 8, 2018 03:12
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I mostly see Marvel movies as competent event films that won't offend or bore anyone I go see them with, but I loved the GOTG movies. They were basically original films, given that they basically were their own stories that just used names, locations, and some personality ideas from the comics. It's clear that Gunn was the magic behind making them happen. Not going to new Marvel movies, or Star Wars, would not be a huge sacrifice. And it's not like their animated offerings look so great right now either.
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Sep 8, 2018 03:24
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With Aquaman and Shazam coming up, it looks like DCEU may have found its groove just as MCU is losing their. I do not have high expectations for Phase 4 if they are writing out James Gunn who was supposed to be setting the entire time
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Sep 8, 2018 03:27
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At this point Disney would be pretty dumb not to get rid of Horn as soon as they can and, quietly or otherwise, offer Gunn and the GotG crew flowers and a dumb truck of money each, and have a Cernovich stand-in in the next Marvel movie get curb stomped by Captain America.
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Sep 8, 2018 03:31
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Ramen Pride! posted:"I'm not sure what you're worried about. Feig is easily equal to Gunn as a director." (Did you SEE the Ghostbusters reboot? How can you say that and still feel justified in spouting your opinion about film?) a Because no matter what fond feelings tou have towards GotG, the movies are just bad. the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie manages to dunk on them. Like just look at this nonsense: Ramen Pride! posted:I suppose you guys can tell I have a Godzilla sized soft spot for the GotG series as piloted by Gunn. I grew up with '70s sci-fi and bright over the top Space Operas like Battle Beyond the Stars and I thought the genre was dead, taken over by grimdark crap. GotG was a giant badly needed pleasant surprise for me at the absolute right time, and GotG 2 didn't let me down later either. Seeing Gunn put so much of himself into the production, screenplay, storyboarding, etc (The mocap for Baby Groot, among a whole list of other things), and seeing how much goddamn FUN the entire cast and crew had on the set while dancing around to Mindless Self-Indulgence and the rest of the goofy set playlists Gunn put together to keep spirits up really made me happy. I still remember the Milano cruising into Knowhere to the tune of Bowie's Moonage Daydream and feeling like a kid again back in the eighties watching something like Starchaser: The Legend of Orin with big eyes. It wasn't just seeing a movie, it was watching behind the scenes at my dream job. You're saying that what makes the movies great is that they're very personal works by Gunn, but if you actually look at the movie, it paints a very unflattering portrait of him and the fans who self-insert as the movie's idiot characters. For an example already brought up: remember when everyone's hero Star-Lord killed off-handedly two people so that he can grab a trinket and sell it? He did it in the first ten minutes or so of the movie. Remember when Indiana Jones killed two people in the opening of Raiders in the Lost Ark so he could make money? Well you wouldn't, because he only disarmed one and found the other's corpse after he got caught up in a trap. And he was interested in the artifact, not the money. Both Star-Lord and James Gunn saw Raiders, but both evidently didn't understand it. Then this parodic, sociopathic aspect of Star-Lord's character is dropped and he's lecturing people on "giving a poo poo" and being good people. Which means going to assassinate a terrorist. It was so heart-warming when he saw his mum in the middle of this War on Terror operation. The reason people find this inspiring is, of course, that it's buried under trite and sentimental crap that distracts you from what's going on. "It makes me feel so depressed that I might not see my hero Groot brutally kill enemy soldiers in a war again." When you say that the movie made you feel like a kid again, it's because they talk about Footloose rather than any genuine sci-fi wonder and imagination. Your evaluation on the movie depends on a complex fantasy about how much FUN everyone had on the set. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 05:58
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We get it, you don't like the thing.
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Sep 8, 2018 06:07
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Ghost Leviathan posted:We get it, you don't like the thing. It is important to understand what people are actually fighting for. Some people who want Gunn back on board do so because they think that him having fun on the set made the movies good, and they're depressed. They treat it as a matter of stolen enjoyment. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 06:10
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I wish Disney would fire BravestoftheLamps
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Sep 8, 2018 06:14
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I would be proud to have been fired by the Disney company.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 06:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It is important to understand what people are actually fighting for. Yes, people tend not to like it when you ruin their fun for a stupid reason.
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Sep 8, 2018 07:34
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Death and drama death and drama conflict propels story sometimes heroes screw up we all love rogues for some reason why am I off probation? I want to be SuperMechagodzilla Han shot first.
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Sep 8, 2018 10:14
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Ramen Pride! posted:Han shot first. This is a great example because Han Solo from Star Wars is a terrible character, one of those awful "lovable rogues". Michael Moorcock posted:The bandit hero -- the underdog rebel... Such figures appeal to our infantile selves -- what is harmful about them in real life is that they are usually immature, without self-discipline, frequently surviving on their 'charm'. Fiction lets them stay, like Zorro or Robin Hood, perpetually charming. In reality they become petulant, childish, relying on a mixture of threats and self-pitying pleading, like any baby. Like you can only register the character killing people in order to sell a trinket as a "screw-up," because he's just so lovable. In reality, bad fiction has just conditioned you to accept amorality. Another example is how Drax considering the lives of others complete expendable is just another one of those lovable green oaf's character quirks. Yes, conflict propels the story forward - but what I'm pointing out that the story is a manchild's fantasy. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 17:04
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at the very least smg argues from things i feel like i should agree with and takes a hard leftist angle, instead of roleplaying as a 700 club moral guardian
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Sep 8, 2018 17:06
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Ramen Pride! posted:They just spent an ungodly amount of money converting the Tower of Terror in Orlando into a GotG ride which heavily features the disgruntled and now probably ex cast. Suffice it to say, the $$$ bleeding has already begun. Hahaha I forgot about this, they're really deep in it. This is all karma for warez fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 17:11
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Hemingway To Go! posted:at the very least smg argues from things i feel like i should agree with and takes a hard leftist angle, instead of roleplaying as a 700 club moral guardian
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Sep 8, 2018 17:14
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Hemingway To Go! posted:at the very least smg argues from things i feel like i should agree with and takes a hard leftist angle, instead of roleplaying as a 700 club moral guardian The thing you're stuck on is assuming that I'm criticizing amorality or anti-heroes in fiction. What I'm criticizing is that Gunn and his fans want to have it both ways - they want amoral anti-heroes, and they want these heroes to be sympathetic moral beacons. They want both rape jokes and heart-warming family bonding. Wanting it both ways directly led to Gunn's dismissal: he wanted to both slander his president and have the moral high ground on him.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:22
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I would be proud to have been fired by the Disney company. Harlan Ellison seemed happy enough with it.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:24
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Like you can only register the character killing people in order to sell a trinket as a "screw-up," because he's just so lovable. In reality, bad fiction has just conditioned you to accept amorality. But aren't those guys at the start like space police, isn't starlord killing those guys just dealing with fascist ACAB? When he's dealing with real people he doesn't kill them, like the guy whose leg he bargained/pleaded for politely?
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Sep 8, 2018 17:25
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NotJustANumber99 posted:But aren't those guys at the start like space police, isn't starlord killing those guys just dealing with fascist ACAB? When he's dealing with real people he doesn't kill them, like the guy whose leg he bargained/pleaded for politely? Actually, if he’s referring to the opening scene of GOTG, Star-Lord goes up against Ronan’s dudes. They’re basically violent extremists.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:29
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That was who I meant, I can't remember, I thought they were stopping him from stealing the thing, so like maybe mall security? Didn't particularly remember that their salaries were paid by ronan.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:34
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Star-Lord explicitly has no idea who they are. He also doesn't know what the macguffin they're fighting is. For all he knows, he's killing police officers so that he can sell a trinket. What's also important is that the audience doesn't know either. From the beginning you're conditioned to side with a murderous thief because he's a "charming rogue". For contrast.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:39
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Fart City posted:Harlan Ellison seemed happy enough with it. He practically made it part of his identity.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:46
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"The movie glorifies mercenaries!" angle is the funniest drat thing to me. (Incidentally killing cops is good regardless of the justification). It's like getting upset over a movie making violence look awesome and cool. That horse is out of the barn, down the street, started its own lineage of wild horses, those horses have evolved sentience, built a rocketship, traveled to a new planet, started civilization, and are now making movies that glorify mercenaries.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:17
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porfiria posted:"The movie glorifies mercenaries!" angle is the funniest drat thing to me. No one has criticized the movies for glorifying mercenaries. The criticism has been over sentimentalizing mercenaries. Glorifying mercenaries is a separate issue entirely.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:22
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Ramen Pride! posted:It's a little better knowing someone out there gets it. Most people don’t sign change.org positions about movies. Most people aren’t intensely online about movies. Gauging general audience response based on change.org petitions is dumb. It’s most certainly the case that of people who care, more care about getting Gunn back than keeping him gone, but the set of people who care about this is much much smaller than the set of people who watch Marvel movies. And again, your argument is that a lot of people think this, therefore it must be correct. Do you still not see the problem there? There’s a petition with over 100,000 signatures to strike The Last Jedi from the Star Wars canon, however that would work. The petition to keep Last Jedi as Canon has 498 signatures. The “make Hilary president, despite her losing the election” petition had over 4 million supporters. Let’s not read too much into who signs these things and why.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:25
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Well sentimentalism is bad so really the problem is the movie is sentimental. In that case, I pray you are not American because 86% of our output is uh that.
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Sep 8, 2018 18:27
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"You can't call the movie bad if I call most other movies bad"
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Sep 8, 2018 18:30
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Are there any change.org petitions that aren't dumb entertainment type bullshit?
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Sep 8, 2018 19:18
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I was really happy that for a while it seemed like people would just ignore BOTL instead of pretending he’s doing anything in good faith.
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Sep 8, 2018 19:18
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I do things in the best of faiths - that of the Roman Catholic Church.
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Sep 8, 2018 19:22
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chitoryu12 posted:I was really happy that for a while it seemed like people would just ignore BOTL instead of pretending he’s doing anything in good faith. Obviously not, but it's important to protect younger, more impressionable readers from corruption.
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Sep 8, 2018 19:36
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banned from Starbucks posted:Are there any change.org petitions that aren't dumb entertainment type bullshit? Hahaha, no. no
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Sep 8, 2018 19:59
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Lamps, do you realize you're basically arguing that characters shouldn't have nuance and multiple facets? Like, I would seriously disagree that the "lovable rogue" archetype attempts to have its cake and eat it too regarding amorality- when handled well, it creates a deliberate contrast between the characters' manner and their actions, making them more interesting than if they were just flatly sociopathic. In Han's case, it establishes that, while he's involved in the underworld, he's not any kind of hardened criminal himself; he's all bluster and bravado. This makes him immediately stand out among the other rogues and toughs at the cantina. In Quill's case, it highlights his worldview (and consequently his biggest character flaw); he never once actually stops and thinks about what he's doing, life for him is essentially a big joke that he just coasts through. In neither case does it actually make their actions "better;" it simply adds depth to their characterization that would otherwise be lacking, and makes them somewhat relatable (I guarantee you've known at least a couple Peter Quills, and you've probably known a Han or two if you've ever been involved in sketchy poo poo).
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Sep 8, 2018 21:11
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Ramen Pride! posted:I really hope he's really not in the running my god no no no no no 'Ghostbusters' Director Paul Feig Addresses Taking Over 'Guardians of the Galaxy' You guys have completely misunderstood this. Disney isn't asking Feig if he's interested in directing Guardians 3, Feig was just doing an interview and the interviewer asked offhand if he would direct Guardians 3 if asked, and Feig replied that he wouldn't do it, because he sees it as Gunn's movie. That was all there was to that exchange. There's no reason to think that Disney was considering him. But incidentally, it does show another reason why IMO it looks increasingly like this movie is never going to get made. Several other directors have already stated publicly that they would refuse to direct it if asked. Scott Derrickson (Dr. Strange), Joe Carnahan, Steven DeKnight, and now Paul Feig have all apparently said that they wouldn't direct the movie if asked. Who is going to step into this clusterfuck? If they hire some nobody the movie's probably going to suck, as well as be exposing some newbie director to a bunch of negative attention just as they're starting out in their career, and what big name director is going to want to step into this, especially as multiple of their peers have already said they'd decline out of principle? Right now the only director who I think could pull it off would be Taika Waititi, since the fans love him and he's already been suggested as the best replacement director. But if Marvel can't get Waititi to do it I think they're screwed. And I'm not entirely sure why Taika Waititi would want GotG3, seeing as he's Marvel's newest golden boy and can most likely get the reins of a Thor 4 or any upcoming MCU film he wants. So for real, it is looking increasingly likely that alt-right twitter troll Mike Cernovich will really have gotten a movie expected to make well over half a billion dollars at the global box office canceled.
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Sep 8, 2018 21:15
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Ramen Pride! posted:Gunn didn't break contract, Disney did, and they owe him in the neighborhood of ten million dollars already despite the fact that he won't be directing. (I hope there's still a spider's fart of a chance that that changes) That's just the beginning of the financial fallout for Disney. They just spent an ungodly amount of money converting the Tower of Terror in Orlando into a GotG ride which heavily features the disgruntled and now probably ex cast. Suffice it to say, the $$$ bleeding has already begun. In other shocking news, Fark.com is apparently still around. (I say on the something awful forums)
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Sep 8, 2018 21:20
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Ramen Pride! posted:Han shot first. Han was just following Tatooines stand your ground laws.
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Sep 8, 2018 21:28
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Sucrose posted:In other shocking news, Fark.com is apparently still around. (I say on the something awful forums) This blew my mind and made me track down other trash comedy sites from my high school years and holy poo poo, apparently loving Ernies House Of Whoopass is still around in some form?
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Sep 8, 2018 22:02
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So I thought that this is all Alan Horn's fault and he's leaving soon. Is there a reason why it sounds like this won't be reversed?
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Sep 9, 2018 03:23
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