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Josef bugman posted:Yes If your talking about the Cassalanter yes. For one they are the heads of the Temple of Asmodeus which is a dungeon below their villa. (Along with their villa having a dungeon map.) The pair are also a wizard and a cleric respectively. A detail of their plan I did not mention earlier is that they have to make the sacrifice of money and souls at around the same time to save their children. So Lady Cassalanter is holding a party were she intends to poison all the guests to serve as the sacrifice, while Lord Cassalanter acquires the gold. If you want more details. Just ask.
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Sep 9, 2018 18:52
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MonsterEnvy posted:Actually it's pretty much the exact same as the 3e version. His complaints are less to do with the 5e version and more with the Sunless Citadel period. On the other hand instead of Moral highground reclaimed 
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Sep 9, 2018 19:10
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Hey that actually vaguely looks like a Forgotten Realms adventure so that's cool. Guess Mearls found a third brain cell. What the gently caress is up with the hit job on the Cassalanters, though? There's already a bunch of Waterdhavian noble houses with various salacious secrets. Hell, shut the gently caress up about Asmodeus and use the Moonstars and make it actually Forgotten Realms based. I guess that would take a fourth brain cell though.
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Sep 9, 2018 19:14
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Splicer posted:I don't like being on this side of "That thing you enjoyed was actually terrible". It's tricky because we did TotM and shift to grid for battles and while that's imo the superior method, it doesn't play super nice with a grid crawl and is kind of a pain in the rear end to run. I can't speak for Tremek, but that was my read on the problems.
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Sep 9, 2018 19:14
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Arivia posted:Hey that actually vaguely looks like a Forgotten Realms adventure so that's cool. Guess Mearls found a third brain cell. Mearls did not even work on this book. credits posted:Lead Designer: Christopher Perkins Also it's been more then 100 years since Caladorn Cassalanter was head of the family. Things change in the years. The pair in charge of the family are entirely new people. The Blackstaff and Force Grey are involved with the plot however. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 9, 2018 |
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Sep 9, 2018 19:22
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Actual people who know stuff about the Forgotten Realms: 0 (0.5 technically for Perkins, since he edited Mere of Dead Men) also you're bullshitting if you think Mearls had nothing to do with one of the -1 products coming out for his 2.2360679775 edition
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Sep 9, 2018 19:24
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Arivia posted:Actual people who know stuff about the Forgotten Realms: 0 (0.5 technically for Perkins, since he edited Mere of Dead Men) I don't think you know many of those people and how much they know about the Realms. Also while Mearls likely gave the go ahead on the book. I think if he was involved with making the book, his name would be in it. Like it is in the other books he was involved with. Is your blind hated really that blind. Like I get you have a grudge. But you still seem over the top. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Sep 9, 2018 |
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Sep 9, 2018 19:28
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MonsterEnvy posted:I don't think you know many of those people and how much they know about the Realms. no no it's okay I'll just overlook the complete intentional loss and spitting on institutional knowledge it's not like they can't just call up the guy who made waterdeep or something you really have no idea how being management works do you
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Sep 9, 2018 19:31
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Arivia posted:no no it's okay I'll just overlook the complete intentional loss and spitting on institutional knowledge it's not like they can't just call up the guy who made waterdeep or something Yeah you are just blindly hating it looks like. Nothing you are saying here makes any sense. And you are just trying to take this in the most negative direction possible. The Cassalanters have changed since the 100 year timeskip that 4e caused. That is the reason they are involved with Devils.
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Sep 9, 2018 19:36
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I'm giving them some credit. It actually looks like an FR adventure, which is better than any of the others except maybe Storm King's Thunder. But the lack of actual attention and care bugs me, and ruining one of Waterdeep's noble families because they couldn't be bothered to look up one of the other families that would actually fit what they want to do is just lazy. "It's a hundred years things change" okay but also there's you know way cooler options literally right there in wherever you skimmed to get the barest information about the Cassalanters from.
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Sep 9, 2018 19:41
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MonsterEnvy posted:If your talking about the Cassalanter yes. For one they are the heads of the Temple of Asmodeus which is a dungeon below their villa. (Along with their villa having a dungeon map.) The pair are also a wizard and a cleric respectively. A detail of their plan I did not mention earlier is that they have to make the sacrifice of money and souls at around the same time to save their children. So Lady Cassalanter is holding a party were she intends to poison all the guests to serve as the sacrifice, while Lord Cassalanter acquires the gold. I have a warlock who is going to have sold his soul to Gra'azt, so they have just become keen favourites for the villains! What about Jar'axle?
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Sep 9, 2018 19:42
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Josef bugman posted:I have a warlock who is going to have sold his soul to Gra'azt, so they have just become keen favourites for the villains! As mentioned Jarlaxle wants to gain membership in the Lords' Alliance for himself and Luskan, and intends to use the gold as leverage to gain membership and hopefully oust Dagult Neverember who has long been a political opponent of his from the group. He also wants to obtain the Dragonstaff of Ahghairon (A staff that can allow Dragon's to ignore Waterdeep's anti Dragon barrier.) as further leverage. (This is one of the harder things to get as the staff is currently in the hands of the Gold Dragon guarding the Vault, being the payment Dagult gave him for guarding it.) Jarlaxle entered the city in the guise of a human sea captain running a carnival alongside three ships. The ships also have a enchantment on their bows that make his drow crew look human. He also forged an allince with Lantan and through it has also obtained Smokepowder (Basically a magical gunpowder.) a secret submarine, and has equipped his three lieutenants with firearms. He has largely left his Lieutenants in charge of getting the gold. If any member of the party is a Drow, then as early as chapter 2 of the Adventure Jarlaxle wishes to recruit them into Bregan D’aerthe, which can lead to some conflicting loyalties if they accept.
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Sep 9, 2018 20:03
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You know, stealing the Dragonstaff would have been a much better/more fitting target for a "Dragon Heist" than whatever the gently caress this secret vault is. Also I guess the small organization of people with it ten years ago are all dead and neither the current Blackstaff nor Laeral decided do anything about it because again too complicated. SPICY BULLSHIT
Arivia fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 9, 2018 |
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Sep 9, 2018 20:15
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Arivia posted:You know, stealing the Dragonstaff would have been a much better/more fitting target for a "Dragon Heist" than whatever the gently caress this secret vault is. Also I guess the small organization of people with it ten years ago are all dead and neither the current Blackstaff nor Laeral decided to anything about it because again too complicated. SPICY BULLSHIT The vault is full of Dragons. You know Waterdeeps term for a gold coin. (Which Dagult Neverember embezzled.) The Staff was given away by Dagult back when he was open lord and had access to it. The Blackstaff and Laeral don't know were it is now. But getting it back is something they would like.
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Sep 9, 2018 20:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:The vault is full of Dragons. You know Waterdeeps term for a gold coin. (Which Dagult Neverember embezzled.) HE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO IT IT WAS IN A MASKED LORD'S HANDS IN 1479 http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_God_Catcher (and in case you've forgotten Neverember was already over in Neverwinter at that point)
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Sep 9, 2018 20:24
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Arivia posted:HE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO IT IT WAS IN A MASKED LORD'S HANDS IN 1479 http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_God_Catcher (and in case you've forgotten Neverember was already over in Neverwinter at that point) This is actually my mistake. I misremembered what the situation with the Dragonstaff was. However it appears that book is no longer considered canon with the adventure, as the last owner of the Dragonstaff is stated to be Maaril, who befriended Aurinax the Gold Dragon who has it during the adventure. Maaril went crazy before the spellplauge and gave the staff to Aurinax. When Dagult became Open Lord he stated the Dragon could keep the staff in exchange for guarding the vault, until they came to collect the treasure. Dagult never gave the staff away or had acess to it. However the Dragon has remained in the vault because Dagult and his agents never came back for the treasure.
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Sep 9, 2018 20:35
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MonsterEnvy posted:This is actually my mistake. I misremembered what the situation with the Dragonstaff was. Hahahaha gently caress THAT poo poo. That's not how canon in the Forgotten Realms works you goddamned idiots. See? They don't give a poo poo about the setting. You don't do that. You work with the setting, instead of declaring parts of it you don't like non-canon. So loving lazy.
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Sep 9, 2018 20:55
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Arivia posted:Hahahaha gently caress THAT poo poo. That's not how canon in the Forgotten Realms works you goddamned idiots. See? They don't give a poo poo about the setting. You don't do that. You work with the setting, instead of declaring parts of it you don't like non-canon. So loving lazy. I don't think it so much declaring events they don't like non canon as much as forgetting about the events of an 8 year old novel. Not that the events of that book would be hard to fit in. The holder in that book was given the staff by Dagult, who while he goes to Neverwinter, does return to Waterdeep from time to time. So they could easily just just say he took the staff back. I am betting if Perkins was asked about it on twitter he would just say it was a screw up on their part. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 9, 2018 |
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Sep 9, 2018 21:05
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MonsterEnvy posted:I don't think it so much declaring events they don't like non canon as much as forgetting about that book. That doesn't loving matter! This is your major creative property! This is the thing you license out to people to keep making lovely video games from! You control this property and are responsible for coordinating it! (You used to have a lot of people to help out with that but you told them all to go away.) You should be able to find your own rear end with two hands for it, especially for your big new product! MonsterEnvy posted:Not that the events of that book would be hard to fit in. The holder in that book was given the staff by Dagult, who while he goes to Neverwinter, does return to Waterdeep from time to time. So they could easily just just say he took the staff back. No. Don't make loving excuses for them. They hosed up. If they cared, they should have had the people they were paying to write this fix that issue, instead of creating it. The fact that they missed this, and left it for you the DM to fix, means it's a badly written adventure. They didn't do their job. They didn't do their job a lot of times this edition, and it's sad to see their lack of care and effort continue. Arivia fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Sep 9, 2018 |
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Sep 9, 2018 21:09
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Arivia posted:That doesn't loving matter! This is your major creative property! This is the thing you license out to people to keep making lovely video games from! You control this property and are responsible for coordinating it! (You used to have a lot of people to help out with that but you told them all to go away.) You should be able to find your own rear end with two hands for it, especially for your big new product! Tell that to all Major companies with on going story lines. Continuity screw ups are not a rare thing.
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Sep 9, 2018 21:11
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I am always surprised when someone cares about Forgotten Realms continuity. It's just such a generic setting, at least on the surface, that it seems odd that anyone would expect background depth.
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Sep 9, 2018 21:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:Tell that to all Major companies with on going story lines. Continuity screw ups are not a rare thing. Yeah, and people had sorted all that poo poo out with a ton of work and effort for the FR. WotC and Mearls threw all that in the trash and made more problems. That's their fault. If they can't be bothered to keep their own story straight, they hosed up.
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Sep 9, 2018 21:12
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:I am always surprised when someone cares about Forgotten Realms continuity. It's just such a generic setting, at least on the surface, that it seems odd that anyone would expect background depth. That's actually the exact essence of what I like about the Realms. There's tons of depth and tons of things to explore and work with - if done properly. (Not this product, obviously.) A lot of what appears "generic" about the Forgotten Realms were things that it introduced and expanded on. Those concepts were new and original and then got adapted for everyone else's less original settings and seem less interesting because of those other adaptations. edit: Also if anyone should be caring about continuity, it's the people who sell products in that continuity. Arivia fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Sep 9, 2018 |
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Sep 9, 2018 21:13
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Arivia posted:Yeah, and people had sorted all that poo poo out with a ton of work and effort for the FR. WotC and Mearls threw all that in the trash and made more problems. That's their fault. If they can't be bothered to keep their own story straight, they hosed up.  There’s quite literally nothing that WotC, or Mike Mearls in particular, can do right by Arivia. Because they hired some terrible people to help with the 5e playtest and are treating their minor IP as a minor IP, second behind MtG and not as a canonical living world vis a vis AEG/Legend of the Five Rings circa 2001, they’ll never ever do anything right by Arivia’s estimation. Arguing with her like she’s a rational being who can put aside 5 year old prejudices or move on and play her game with minor changes, like renaming the Waterdhavian noble family to match her canonical expectations is a bridge too far. The stupidest part is that she’s got *a* point in most of the poo poo she says, so it’s not like she’s making poo poo up or lying to be this edgy naysayer in what would otherwise be a safe spaces thread about D&D. She just takes poo poo that’s maybe a 2, max 3, in terms of relevance or importance to D&D and treats it like it’s an 11 and oh god they’re miserable fucks who can’t touch something except to gently caress it up in irreparable ways and “oh my god Mearls is horrible and hey guys did you hear he’s fat and balding too? Just look at how he hosed up his life just like he hosed up 30 years of Glorious Deity Ed Greenwood’s, may He live forever, righteous canon, as set down in a 1980s Usenet post, what you didn’t see it? Ughhhhh!”
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Sep 9, 2018 21:36
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You know someone is a super fan when a minor continuity error makes them declare something garbage. Though the Adventures and Novel's were declared to be a separate continuity to begin with. koreban posted:
I don't think they were hired. I think they were consulted. As hiring would imply they got paid for it. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Sep 9, 2018 |
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Sep 9, 2018 21:42
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Anyway the Adventure is cool, if you don't care about a minor continuity error. That you would only know about if you read and remembered one novel eight years ago.
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Sep 9, 2018 21:45
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MonsterEnvy posted:You know someone is a super fan when a minor continuity error makes them declare something garbage. What? No they never were. Lol please shut up when you have no idea what you're talking about. @koreban: I am genuinely worried Ed is gonna die on us before the tides turn and we get lots more cool Realmslore. It would be so sad.  And yeah, Mearls is loving poison. He's the kind of poo poo you scrape off your shoe. He's just lazy and untalented and bad and makes the game actively worse, both himself and his friends. You've got me wrong though. I can forgive old grudges and change things in my game just fine. I'm referring to an official product where they should have all their ducks lined up and actually developed what they're writing. My home game, someone else's home game, you can fix or change whatever you want. But in an actual official product, the standard of quality needs and must be better. You should be expecting better from the people who are selling you products, and it's sad that you're not. (And yes, the FR was a living world from what, 1987 to 2007? That was really nice. Let's go back to that please.)
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Sep 9, 2018 21:47
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Arivia posted:What? No they never were. Lol please shut up when you have no idea what you're talking about. Yes they are. It's why we have an adventure in the Underdark about getting stuff ready to defeat Demogorgon, while in the novels Drizzt is empowered by the Illithid hivemind and a divine ritual to defeat Demogorgon when he shows up in the underdark. Both of these are mutually exclusive. They have also stated some novels are non canon. The Baulder's Gate Novels have been declared non canon and the remastered game elevated to canon in their place. (The player character being a Neutral Good Fighter named Abdel after the first option in the pregens.) Which people liked given that the novels were awful. Though these are the only ones from what I am aware of.
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Sep 9, 2018 21:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yes they are. It's why we have an adventure in the Underdark about getting stuff ready to defeat Demogorgon, while in the novels Drizzt is empowered by the Illithid hivemind and a divine ritual to defeat Demogorgon when he shows up in the underdark. Both of these are mutually exclusive. Adventures and novels have often had similar events but been canon at the same time. Sometimes a novel has overwritten an adventure, but that doesn't mean they're separate - the adventure is a game tool for playing through the story the novel also tells. (With varying effects depending upon the paired products in question.) They were never "separate continuities". Also Abdel Adrian is actually from the books. The Grand History of the Realms tied up what from those books was notable, and Murder in Baldur's Gate built upon that. The games themselves don't fit the setting in a multitude of ways. (And the fact that you can't name which books specifically aren't canon kind of shows how little you know here.)
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Sep 9, 2018 22:00
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This is exactly what the internet was invented for.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:04
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Novum posted:This is exactly what the internet was invented for.
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Sep 9, 2018 22:10
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Hey Arivia shut up
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Sep 9, 2018 22:36
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Toebone posted:Hey Arivia shut up no thx
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Sep 9, 2018 22:38
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Abdel Adrian is a loving dumb name
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Sep 10, 2018 00:43
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MonsterEnvy posted:The Baulder's Gate Novels have been declared non canon and the remastered game elevated to canon in their place. [citation needed]
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Sep 10, 2018 01:08
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Something cleaned with Prestidigitation: is it now actually clean forever until it gets soiled by use, or is it magically clean for 1 hour? The spell says Duration: Up to 1 hour, but then some of the effects specify 1 hour, some don't, and some specify durations that are less than 1 hour. For reference: 
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Sep 10, 2018 01:31
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It's clean, and if it gets dirty again it gets dirty.
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Sep 10, 2018 01:35
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Autism Sneaks posted:Abdel Adrian is a loving dumb name Imagined posted:Something cleaned with Prestidigitation: is it now actually clean forever until it gets soiled by use, or is it magically clean for 1 hour? The spell says Duration: Up to 1 hour, but then some of the effects specify 1 hour, some don't, and some specify durations that are less than 1 hour. You've stripped the dirt from it, it is no longer dirty in that exact second you used it but should that surface come into contact with dirt, it will be dirty again hth. kingcom fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 01:36
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Imagined posted:Something cleaned with Prestidigitation: is it now actually clean forever until it gets soiled by use, or is it magically clean for 1 hour? The spell says Duration: Up to 1 hour, but then some of the effects specify 1 hour, some don't, and some specify durations that are less than 1 hour. If the effect mentions "instantaneous" then the effect has no duration. It just happens and that's it. So the cleaning is done in an instant, and then the magic is done. When an hour passes it won't get suddenly dirty again, nor will the item magically repel dirt for the coming hour.
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Sep 10, 2018 01:47
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Arivia posted:I'm referring to an official product where they should have all their ducks lined up and actually developed what they're writing. […] in an actual official product, the standard of quality needs and must be better. You should be expecting better from the people who are selling you products, and it's sad that you're not. If you always have to "fact"-check every piece of lore that has ever been made, and make sure all your ideas conform, you're going to paint yourself into a corner with unhelpful restrictions. If the IP-holders want to ignore something in order to tell their story, then tell the story; I'm more interested in that, than whatever piece of background lore would otherwise prevent that from unfolding.
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Sep 10, 2018 01:47
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