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All this Generation chat just hammers home the fact that Blood Potency is just such a far superior mechanic. Especially if this V5 "there are new clan progenitors" poo poo sticks around, it feels like the only reason to bother even bringing that back is the creators are trying to recapture the lightning-in-a-bottle feel of the original run, totally ignoring everything Chronicles did to fix the raging illogicalities of it.
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Sep 11, 2018 09:35
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citybeatnik posted:Random low Generation characters seemed to be a common theme in the oWoD. Not that random, the canon character they choolse for her sire is extremely appropriate. Jacob/Esau has basically the exact same derangement.
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Sep 11, 2018 09:43
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I liked how V20 handled the Assamite blood curse, it might be fun to run an Ocean's 11 style game of an Assamite coterie breaking into ancient lairs and jamming a tap in Elder Fucksack's neck.
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Sep 11, 2018 10:05
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:All this Generation chat just hammers home the fact that Blood Potency is just such a far superior mechanic. Especially if this V5 "there are new clan progenitors" poo poo sticks around, it feels like the only reason to bother even bringing that back is the creators are trying to recapture the lightning-in-a-bottle feel of the original run, totally ignoring everything Chronicles did to fix the raging illogicalities of it. Mechanically it is pretty rough, although I guess it synchs up with that 90s era angst, man. Like the idea that you need to commit a dire, soul-staining sin that will permanently alter your relationship with your subcommunity in order to breach a certain mystical boundary... sure, that's cool: But when you have to do it, like, SIX TIMES? poo poo's ridiculous. Once should be enough.
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Sep 11, 2018 10:42
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Dawgstar posted:Redeemer adds in a new character (the Redeemer creed) along with the original four. It's essentially the first one with more stuff. If you liked the first one you'll probably enjoy Redeemer. I was able to round up a couple of friends to play it and we had a fine old time. Weren't those games Gauntlet Legends-style hack and slashers? Redeemers are a weird creed to involve in that.
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Sep 11, 2018 11:32
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Nessus posted:I think there is a cool aspect to Generation in that it specifically situates you as part of a generational system. You, personally, did not get directly cursed by God, nor were you once again given flesh by humans who wish to pay you tribute: You are the result of the decisions of a number of vampires through history. I think with the right perspective that could be a huge roleplay aid. It would make sense for some clans to keep track of it, Assamites, Ventrue and Tremere in particular, but for Brujah and Gangrel it strikes me that they just wouldn't know, or they aren't centralized enough to track. Anarchs should be railing against such an obvious metric of badassery. In my Ideal Game it would work approximately the same as Werewolf's Pure Breed, largely an in-group measure of historical relevance. Otherwise, like it was mentioned, given that every instance of Diablerie is a guaranteed 1+ Humanity drop each time, it should be vanishingly rare to encounter a stable Diablerist, given how uncommon it is for kindred to regain humanity. Obviously some paths will have this occurring more often than others, but still. It's an example of the narrative-mechanic disconnect which the God-Machine Chronicles attempted to redress.
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Sep 11, 2018 12:19
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Isn't that fine, though? Diablerie as A Very Bad Thing was firmly established in the canon; Just players seemed to spend their time viewing it as a 'Level' in D&D terms like they should be trying to attain it. One possible lens to view it through was that whilst Diablerie is still Very Bad, it's actually nowhere near as bad as it is made out to be, because the people who tell you it Is Bad are the ones who have a vested interest in the neonates NOT getting ideas into their head about eating their Elders - I.E Untrustworthy narrators is go. Basically yeah, you're still committing the worst kind of murder, but hey, you're a Cainite, you were probably doing that anyway, and all the stories about destabilising you to the Beast were just that - ways to keep you in line.
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Sep 11, 2018 13:02
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Shockeh posted:Isn't that fine, though? Diablerie as A Very Bad Thing was firmly established in the canon; Just players seemed to spend their time viewing it as a 'Level' in D&D terms like they should be trying to attain it. (Premediated homicide is pretty bad, of course, and you're probably not doing it for the greater good. But why is it worse to kill Count Elderla than it is to kill Vinny Mafiosi?)
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Sep 11, 2018 13:29
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Nessus posted:(Premediated homicide is pretty bad, of course, and you're probably not doing it for the greater good. But why is it worse to kill Count Elderla than it is to kill Vinny Mafiosi?) We're not just killing Count Elderla, we're killing her in the most painful way possible, drinking all her blood and destroying her very soul. That's a significantly more twisted crime than mere murder even before you consider the additional supernatural ramifications. e: not to mention that vampires (practically by necessity) tend toward a worldview that sees mortals as lesser, and therefore consider any crime against a fellow vampire worse than the equivalent crime against any mortal Terrorforge fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 13:43
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Pope Guilty posted:Weren't those games Gauntlet Legends-style hack and slashers? Redeemers are a weird creed to involve in that. You're not wrong. on either count. Kaylie, if I remember right, did have vaguely Redeemer-ish powers - you could turn enemies on each other, she could heal and I think got good ol 'Cleave eventually.
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Sep 11, 2018 14:56
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Pope Guilty posted:Weren't those games Gauntlet Legends-style hack and slashers? Redeemers are a weird creed to involve in that. There was actually a game inbetween H:TR and Redeemer, Wayward. But it was PS2 only. You spent most of the first two games fighting zombies, so a Redeemer probably wouldn't have much problem with blowing them away. And apparently at the end of Redeemer you make peace with the werewolves and help defend them and their kinfolk from not-pentex. (I didn't have an XBOX so I'm going off of what wiki says)
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Sep 11, 2018 15:09
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Worse than that the victim's soul is destroyed is that it is wholesale eaten and the act is intensely pleasurable and addictive. Once you do it, your first thought is "when can I get that high again?" and the combination of progressive power bumps with addiction means serial diablerists either fast track their way to becoming very powerful wights or the kind of path followers that become very scary for enemies and allies alike when they're let out of the box. Contrary to all the Sabbat propaganda about humans being cattle and the masquerade being a sham, high ranking Sabbat know the purpose of the Silence of the Blood and know that any rampaging beast, even path followers, get put down and put down hard. Especially now in V5 when it's not just a regional "special task force" your storyteller weaves in but written as canon that there are mobilized hunters looking for vampires.
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Sep 11, 2018 15:26
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Kurieg posted:There was actually a game inbetween H:TR and Redeemer, Wayward. But it was PS2 only. It was easy to pretend it was a Pentex subsidiary since the bad guy's company references a bunch of actual (well, "actual") Pentex subsidiaries.
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Sep 11, 2018 15:48
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I ended up going with the Dark Ages Inquisitor core rules for my game, and I think it's shaping up well! Now for soundtrack suggestions  I'd like to hear your most pants-making GBS threads medieval horror music - for comparison, I've already included the Vampire: Redemption theme, Libera Me from Interview with the Vampire and some orthodox hymns like Agni Parthene and Kyrie Eleison.
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Sep 11, 2018 19:31
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Tias posted:I ended up going with the Dark Ages Inquisitor core rules for my game, and I think it's shaping up well! I had never heard of this piece before, so of course this is what started playing in my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT6LFOIofRE
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Sep 11, 2018 19:39
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Terrorforge posted:I had never heard of this piece before, so of course this is what started playing in my head: Likewise. It's a catholic Responsory, TTGL used the lyrics in the mash up with Rap wa Kamashii.
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Sep 11, 2018 20:41
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Tias posted:I ended up going with the Dark Ages Inquisitor core rules for my game, and I think it's shaping up well! Look up Requiem masses they tend to have some really good creepy movements.
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Sep 11, 2018 20:43
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The problem with generations and whatnot is, as has already been seen, it means the game turns into doing an Elder's bitch work because you will literally never be as powerful as them and they can in fact literally just casually force you to do things, which is rank poo poo for a game you're supposed to play, not just read about.
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Sep 11, 2018 21:58
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Probably a Spirit-Ridden. I wanted to see if there was something I could reverse engineer into a Magical Girl.  I understand it's very not 'in tone' for Chronicles but I wanted to see if I could stretch the rules to cover the situation. "Demon offers man magical power in exchange for doing its evil bidding" and "Small fluffy mascot character offers girl magical power in exchange for doing its bidding" aren't entirely dissimilar. I was trying to crowbar a Fey Touched into the correct shape with a checklist of: 1) Transform/Wear Outfit (Sparkly) 2) Shoot Magical Laser (Sparkly) 3) Fly (Or jump good) And I managed to get the first two with a Hedgespun Clothing token and Helios Judgement/Elemental Weapon contracts, but unfortunately the Seven League Jump contract doesn't work for Fey Touched because of a quirk in how it's written. So I was wondering if there was some other candidate that I'd missed.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:00
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Crasical posted:I wanted to see if there was something I could reverse engineer into a Magical Girl. I am pretty sure bespoke Magical Girl games exist if that is what you want to play.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:24
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Well there is that fangame Princess: the Hopeful
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Sep 12, 2018 01:29
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They wouldn’t choose to do it, but I’m pretty sure the right Demon could provide (horrifying biomechanical) versions of those effects through the right gadgets, and pact making is A Thing for them. Of course you’d be instantly stigmatic/on the God Machine’s poo poo list/etc. I also think a lot of them would be form gadgets, which RAW has implications for the demon in question (i.e. they would REALLY never do it), but who is to say they didn’t find a warehouse of spare angel parts?
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Sep 12, 2018 01:33
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FrostyPox posted:Well there is that fangame Princess: the Hopeful Crasical posted:
Lord_Hambrose posted:I am pretty sure bespoke Magical Girl games exist if that is what you want to play. Crasical posted:I understand it's very not 'in tone' for Chronicles but I wanted to see if I could stretch the rules to cover the situation.  I like seeing if I can crowbar the system into unexpected directions while staying within the confines of the rules. I get that that's not everyone's idea of a good time, but I like messing around and seeing if I can build weird things in RPGs. LGD posted:They wouldn’t choose to do it, but I’m pretty sure the right Demon could provide (horrifying biomechanical) versions of those effects through the right gadgets, and pact making is A Thing for them. Of course you’d be instantly stigmatic/on the God Machine’s poo poo list/etc. That'd be a pretty dark take on it, but I don't hate the idea. Some idiot that the God Machine basically shoved full of 'magic powers' and got told to go fight soul-stealing 'monsters', so thinks they're a warrior of love and justice firing sparkly beams at the Demons, the actual protagonists of the piece. Pretty Demon Slayer Clockwork★Girl.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:44
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Commissar Budgie posted:Worse than that the victim's soul is destroyed is that it is wholesale eaten and the act is intensely pleasurable and addictive. I liked the examples where a diablerist wasn't actually powerful enough to digest a particularly potent soul, and was gradually consumed from within by their ostensible victim. ProfessorCirno posted:The problem with generations and whatnot is, as has already been seen, it means the game turns into doing an Elder's bitch work because you will literally never be as powerful as them and they can in fact literally just casually force you to do things, which is rank poo poo for a game you're supposed to play, not just read about. I don't think it was quite that bad. Yeah, the local elder might have a few tricks you don't, but as a collective group (and potentially with outside support if the local elder is a particularly egregious shitlord who abused others regularly), you could at least challenge that power. You may never pose a mortal threat to a Methuselah, and certainly wouldn't to an Antediluvian, but they're more plot elements than characters in most stories, and you may as well complain about Joe Barbarian not being able to bash a god's skull in when you're playing D&D. You may end up foiling a Methuselah's plan they're enacting through agents, and then just hope they think you're beneath their notice (or they're too afraid of showing their face and putting themselves at risk of attack from their real enemies) for them to go and squash you like a bug. In character, of course, it was meant to feel every bit as unfair as you suggest, which is why one of the major themes of the game (depending on the edition/author) was to burn it all down. Blood drinking monsters being justly outraged at blatant inequalities within their communities was always kind of funny. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 01:48
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Tias posted:Now for soundtrack suggestions You really can't go wrong with Diamanda Galás. Ever. But probably her Plague Mass album is the most what you're looking for.
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Sep 12, 2018 02:09
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Elders are one of those things that can either be handled well or badly. Handled well, they're great terrors that cast shadows over the PCs without much direct interaction, like sharks over small fish, except maybe at Elysium or where the PCs have done something to draw their attention/ire/admiration, but whose hubris and pride make them prey to cunning neonates and ancillae with few scruples and a lot of careful planning/luck. Handled badly they're dominating you into getting their dry cleaning every other night and always one step ahead no matter what.
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Sep 12, 2018 02:10
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Crasical posted:That'd be a pretty dark take on it, but I don't hate the idea. Some idiot that the God Machine basically shoved full of 'magic powers' and got told to go fight soul-stealing 'monsters', so thinks they're a warrior of love and justice firing sparkly beams at the Demons, the actual protagonists of the piece. Pretty Demon Slayer Clockwork★Girl. the God Machine and its ways are inscrutable, but I'd think another Demon would make more sense since the God Machine has no need to bargain and already has actual angels though I'm sure you could find some way to make it work - maybe its a new program for Latent demon-blooded who become full Offspring or something
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Sep 12, 2018 02:12
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I mean, if you're willing to go to the well of "the God-Machine decided to make magical girls" then entities with Archmage-level dots in Prime can outright force Awakenings. It does tend to create Banishers, though. "Archmage-level dots" covers a lot of ground, too -- old gods / Pangaeans, Aeons, various Abyssal entities, etc. It's way up the power scale, but so is the G-M. e: I had it wrong, it's not Prime, it's 7+ in the two ruling Arcana of whatever Path you're trying to Awaken them in. Imperial Mysteries, pg.36 posted:"Manipulation of the mage template requires seven dots in both Ruling Arcana of the Path. [...] It is possible to use this Practice to force an Awakening in a Sleeper by granting them the appropriate Path,[...] Doing so is a Wisdom 1 sin, draws the attention of the Exarchs, and is almost certain to produce a Banisher." e2: mind you going by the Dark Eras rules for creating them, it's not even possible for a Pangaean to have 14 dots of arcana; it's one dot per rank which basically just leaves absurdly powerful Mage-flavored stuff Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 02:16
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Tias posted:I ended up going with the Dark Ages Inquisitor core rules for my game, and I think it's shaping up well! Check out Sombre Arcane, I think their demo is up on bandcamp.
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Sep 12, 2018 02:51
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Whoops I'm bad at reading, clearly
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Sep 12, 2018 02:52
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LGD posted:the God Machine and its ways are inscrutable, but I'd think another Demon would make more sense since the God Machine has no need to bargain and already has actual angels IIRC certain levels of Pact can actually grant Supernatural Merits, so you probably could have a paranoid or callous demon Pacting with impressionable mortals to turn them into Magical Girls and having them hunt down and destroy Angels and Infrastructure to prevent a particular God Machine plot from going off, 'Just like in their Japanese Animes', all so that he can work through intermediaries and never really have to expose himself to danger. Though now that I'm looking at the book it's really ambigious if you can actually give a Mortal a Supernatural Merit or not. The book example has someone getting Mystery Cult Initiation, so maybe...?
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Sep 12, 2018 03:06
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Crasical posted:IIRC certain levels of Pact can actually grant Supernatural Merits, so you probably could have a paranoid or callous demon Pacting with impressionable mortals to turn them into Magical Girls and having them hunt down and destroy Angels and Infrastructure to prevent a particular God Machine plot from going off, 'Just like in their Japanese Animes', all so that he can work through intermediaries and never really have to expose himself to danger. yeah that would also work, I just thought gadgets were a little better mechanically supported and seemed more appropriate for CoD - building an effective/horrifying "magical girl" seemed pretty straightforward using demonic form abilities and a smattering of embeds/exploits - a weird Flavor Flav-style classic-alarm-clock amulet with a bunch of odd wires sticking out of it (Deep Pockets Exploit) gives a hammerspace equivalent, you can have a "magical wand" that looks like a weird bodged-together collection of plumbing (Eliminator Cannon Process or Rivet Arm), you've got plenty of options for protective uniforms/effects (i.e. armored plate modification or something based on Just Bruised), and glowing/flight are also easy (Plasma Drive/Wings)
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Sep 12, 2018 03:35
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Crasical posted:
That is fair enough. I suppose I have always preferred rpg games that are big on genre emulation. Games that are designed to capture a certain feeling or style and can accomplish it well are the pinnacle of design in my opinion. Twisting something to do something unusual is an interesting experiment (and can definitely produce good results) but at the end of the day there are easier ways to emulate the feel of first edition d&d flavor than crafting an elaborate hack of the CoD system. Torchbearer is right there. Also, you should run Magical Girls in Werewolf. Your transformation makes you into a powerhouse capable of winning the big fight, you talk to animals sometimes, always work as a team, and most importantly a ancient spirit of Bullying is likely to cause difficulties for middle school girls.
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Sep 12, 2018 05:08
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ProfessorCirno posted:The problem with [almost all of oWod is that it's] rank poo poo for a game you're supposed to play, not just read about.
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Sep 12, 2018 05:50
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"In the name of the moon, we will I'm actually having good feelings about the Demon-Pacted Angel-Killing Magical Girl. Quick Change lets you change your clothes into whatever you want. Just Bruised lets you say that an attack just barely whiffed or didn't hit dead on, for scratch damage which is very 'in genre' for a Magical Girl Hellfire or Incendiary both work as a blasting attack. The Flight might really have to be a Form Gadget, or a particular esoteric near Field effect of the Newton's Nightmare Exploit. Probably very doable with a lambda-type gadget (or two, possibly). As an upside(?), heavy use of Gadgets practically assures that the person involved is going to turn into a Stigmatic in short order and start developing their own supernatural abilities, increasing their value as a pawn.
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Sep 12, 2018 06:15
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Also, you should run Magical Girls in Werewolf. Your transformation makes you into a powerhouse capable of winning the big fight, you talk to animals sometimes, always work as a team, and most importantly a ancient spirit of Bullying is likely to cause difficulties for middle school girls. If you're Red Talons in NWolf, the oath of the moon means you never run from a real fight. NWolf is already an extremely bloodsoaked Sailor Moon adaptation IMO.
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Sep 12, 2018 06:15
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Crasical posted:IIRC certain levels of Pact can actually grant Supernatural Merits, so you probably could have a paranoid or callous demon Pacting with impressionable mortals to turn them into Magical Girls and having them hunt down and destroy Angels and Infrastructure to prevent a particular God Machine plot from going off, 'Just like in their Japanese Animes', all so that he can work through intermediaries and never really have to expose himself to danger. Hell, just adapt it wholesale.
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Sep 12, 2018 09:10
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Crasical posted:That'd be a pretty dark take on it, but I don't hate the idea. Some idiot that the God Machine basically shoved full of 'magic powers' and got told to go fight soul-stealing 'monsters', so thinks they're a warrior of love and justice firing sparkly beams at the Demons, the actual protagonists of the piece. Pretty Demon Slayer Clockwork★Girl. The thing about magical girls is that they've always been way gnarlier than their sparkly exterior would seem to suggest. As far back as Sailor Moon you've got stuff like Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon, Guardian of Love And Justice getting shived by a zombie with a broken bottle and a series finale where the entire primary cast is brutally murdered by extraterrestrial vampires. And her primary weapon isn't actually sparkly love beams, it's kicking people in the face. Madoka Magica isn't so much a subversion as it is a logical extreme. Crasical posted:IIRC certain levels of Pact can actually grant Supernatural Merits, so you probably could have a paranoid or callous demon Pacting with impressionable mortals to turn them into Magical Girls and having them hunt down and destroy Angels and Infrastructure to prevent a particular God Machine plot from going off, 'Just like in their Japanese Animes', all so that he can work through intermediaries and never really have to expose himself to danger. It doesn't say you can't give them a Supernatural Merit, so I don't see why they should be any different, especially since "give me dark powers" is such a staple of deals with the devil. The bigger issue i think is that most supernatural merits are pretty weaksauce compared to the supernatural powers of a full splat, especially demons. Gadgets make more sense to me, and Flowers of Hell establishes that they can in fact be used as payment for Pacts.
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Sep 12, 2018 09:26
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isnt it kind of a rule that you dont know why the god machine wants a specific weird thing, just that it does? maybe it needs a magical girl for its ineffable purposes. like not even as an anti-demon weapon, they hunt some other thing entirely Tollymain fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 09:53
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Tollymain posted:isnt it kind of a rule that you dont know why the god machine wants a specific weird thing, just that it does? Just straight up "Nah, the Miracle Maidens are gonna gently caress up the Seers. It'll be great."
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Sep 12, 2018 10:14
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