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lol if you don't think directors under Disney are literally 100 percent replaceable
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Sep 11, 2018 23:35
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Well I guess if they don't make the next GOTG then this one won't have been replaceable. Whats a bit funny is that the reason for this might well be the growing power of a returning popular cast refusing to work without the director, and yet the outcome would be disney just getting rid of the lot of them and moving right on to the next set of nobodies, so an irreplaceable director results in a replaceable franchise.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:03
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Literally nobody in the GOTG cast is going to refuse to work on GOTG3, not even Bautista.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:30
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CelticPredator posted:The dancing scenes are the only good scenes in Spider-Man 3. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zqKWAc_wt60 ????
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Sep 12, 2018 00:34
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Pirate Jet posted:Literally nobody in the GOTG cast is going to refuse to work on GOTG3, not even Bautista. let's see.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:39
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CelticPredator posted:The dancing scenes are the only good scenes in Spider-Man 3. Agreed.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:43
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CelticPredator posted:let's see. Okay I’ll add one caveat: James’s brother will probably leave. But that’ll be it.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:52
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They're doing reshoots for Infinity War right now, and it'd be pretty easy to wipe off the Guardians.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:56
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's kind of amazing that fans of a sci-fi movie hate sci-fi. Yes, this is a good point. It's almost like there are different kinds of sci-fi with different tones and people tend to favor one tone over another depending on their personal tastes and interests. Your go-to example, 5th Element, came out in 1997. But something happened between 1997 and today that drastically changed the way sci-fi was presented and the big, bright, and colorful universes were replaced with dark, cramped corridors and depressing, claustrophobic, and interchangeable settings that could all fit into a universe the size of a postage stamp. After 9/11 sci-fi stopped being about optimistic exploration and became an outlet for peoples' fear and xenophobia and it stayed that way for more than a decade while producers squeezed every last drop of fun and optimism out of any setting they could get their hands on to present moviegoers with dried-out mummified nostalgic husks. Guardians of the Galaxy wasn't a groundbreaking movie because of its characters. Peter Quill isn't significantly different from Tony Stark or Dr. Strange, and the themes are still dragged down by the same Tough People (or Autobots (or Furry Smurfs)) making Tough Choices and killing the baddies without a hint of mercy nonsense that's plagued us since Captain Archer went full Dubya. Guardians was different because of its tone. Space was bright and colorful and alien and un-apologetically loud again! Thanks to Guardians it was ok to have FUN in space again, and between Guardians and The Martian a year later the door for optimistic sci-fi has been re-opened. Sci-fi has always been manic-depressive, but sci-fi has been in a depressive slump for a long time, and a few big flops and a few big losses could make studios skittish again. To lose a director who understood fun to the actions of a neo-nazi reprobate has a lot of people angry, but I also believe James Gunn will continue to make fun things wherever he winds up. With luck, Disney will get Ma Bell'd soon.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:59
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CelticPredator posted:They're doing reshoots for Infinity War right now, and it'd be pretty easy to wipe off the Guardians. I can see them keeping Pratt. He’s come off as quite the company man, with all his inane “take time to pray” talk. Groot and Rocket are super marketable, but they’re also CGI characters who could easily have their voice actors replaced. Everybody else? Yeah I could see them curbing them all.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:06
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Even so, the funniest part about all this to me is Disney revamping the Tower of Terror to a Guardians ride, and them building a multimillion dollar giant roller coaster for Epcot coming next year I think? If they didn't get the cast stuff done by now, well...might be a bit tricky snagging them for it. And thus ruining the whole point in having a Guardians of the Galaxy ride.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:Guardians was different because of its tone. Space was bright and colorful and alien and un-apologetically loud again! Thanks to Guardians it was ok to have FUN in space again, and between Guardians and The Martian a year later the door for optimistic sci-fi has been re-opened. Sci-fi has always been manic-depressive, but sci-fi has been in a depressive slump for a long time, and a few big flops and a few big losses could make studios skittish again. That seems like a tenuous position given the most successful science-fiction films between 9/11 and Guardians were Avatar and Wall-E, neither one being known for its depressing outlook or lacking colour.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:12
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Samuel Clemens posted:That seems like a tenuous position given the most successful science-fiction films between 9/11 and Guardians were Avatar and Wall-E, neither one being known for its depressing outlook or lacking colour. Exceptions often prove a rule, I love Wall-E, it was one of the only bright spots in a genre where every other show or movie was trying desperately to be the next Battlestar Galactica. Fantasy went through a similar thing where every series is tried to be the next Game of Thrones. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason History Channel's Vikings got made. I do call out Avatar, though. The big all-powerful evil being humanity is still as bleak and depressing as the aliens' eventual fate will be. The Na'vi don't have space travel, there's no way a profit-minded space corporation isn't coming back to drop tungston rods on Pandora from space so they can just take their magic floating space rocks. I quietly hope Weyland-Yutani buys the mineral rights to Pandora so we can get Alien vs. Predator vs. Avatar though. That would be as fun as the idea is stupid. Carbon-fiber xenomorph exoskeletons! PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 01:27
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Star Trek reboot came out five years before Guardians and had quips and optimism and fun in space.
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Sep 12, 2018 01:57
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PoptartsNinja posted:I quietly hope Weyland-Yutani buys the mineral rights to Pandora so we can get Alien vs. Predator vs. Avatar though. This is prob the only outcome that would get me to give a poo poo about the new avatar movies.
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Sep 12, 2018 02:02
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I'll say this: the Guardians' relationship to the Nova Corps is really odd and not what you might, uh, expect from a movie about a bunch of criminal outsiders. Like, contrast with Snake Plissken's relationship to the US Government for example.
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Sep 12, 2018 02:16
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Star Trek reboot came out five years before Guardians and had quips and optimism and fun in space. It's not the quipping that sets the tone, and it's a hard thing for me to describe. I'm not a professional critic, but I'll give it a shot: JJ Trek and JJ Wars are cramped and depressing universes. JJ Abrams makes space feel small. There was nothing optimistic about his Star Trek, and because of it CBS learned "people like prequels, we should do more prequels!" so we got the utterly joyless Star Trek: Discovery. JJ Trek created a universe where TNG can never happen all so they could have movies where popular mischaracterizations of Kirk and Spock fight terrorists and black government space helicopters while Leonard Nemoy nods approvingly as he watches Vulcan explode from another solar system. Maybe Star Trek Beyond turned it around, but I never saw it and I don't particularly care to. It was different for the sake of being different, like the Klingons in STD, and the only moment of enjoyment I got was the beginning of the second movie where Kirk and Spock saved an alien planet from being destroyed by a single volcano (there's that scale issue again!). JJ Wars I dislike because nothing that happened in the original Star Wars trilogy actually mattered. The rebels kill the emperor and the space nazis still win and keep right-on building bigger and better Death Stars. I dunno, I'm really not invested too much in either franchise anymore. I only see one or two movies a year, and I don't regret that Guardians of the Galaxy was the only movie I saw in 2014. It saddens me that Disney let a neo-nazi dupe them, but I'll probably keep avoiding Abrams and seeing James Gunn's movies because he's earned my good will. That might change if anything concrete were to come out, but that doesn't seem particularly likely in this case. VVV Oh no, you told an off-color joke! Better watch out or Mike Cernovich might get you fired! PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 02:31
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It's a storybook ending where the penniless thief-with-a-heart-of-gold wins the hand of the king's fair daughter sight unseen, except in this example the daughter is a replica spaceship with stereo surround system he's still gonna cum inside her tho 
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Sep 12, 2018 02:33
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PoptartsNinja posted:JJ Abrams makes space feel small. There was nothing optimistic about his Star Trek, and because of it CBS learned "people like prequels, we should do more prequels!" so we got the utterly joyless Star Trek: Discovery. JJ Trek created a universe where TNG can never happen all so they could have movies where popular mischaracterizations of Kirk and Spock fight terrorists and black government space helicopters while Leonard Nemoy nods approvingly as he watches Vulcan explode from another solar system. Maybe Star Trek Beyond turned it around, but I never saw it and I don't particularly care to. It was different for the sake of being different, like the Klingons in STD, and the only moment of enjoyment I got was the beginning of the second movie where Kirk and Spock saved an alien planet from being destroyed by a single volcano (there's that scale issue again!). 90 percent of this post is about a TV show (which I’ve never seen) instead of the movie I mentioned. You also haven’t explained how it’s not optimistic despite it being about a multicultural crew thrown together by unfortunate circumstance and lead by a hot-headed misfit managing to overcome their differences to save the world. I guess because nobody dances to oldies in it?
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Sep 12, 2018 02:59
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Was there a Star Trek that made space feel big?
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Sep 12, 2018 03:08
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porfiria posted:I'll say this: the Guardians' relationship to the Nova Corps is really odd and not what you might, uh, expect from a movie about a bunch of criminal outsiders. Like, contrast with Snake Plissken's relationship to the US Government for example. They're not quite criminals after the first film. They're still rougher and more on the outside of the law, but they're generally fighting to keep people safe rather than committing crime or hunting bounties for profit. They probably earned more cred with the Nova Corps than any other life form in the galaxy by warning them of Ronan's attack and saving basically the entire galaxy from him.
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Sep 12, 2018 03:30
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Harime Nui posted:Was there a Star Trek that made space feel big? The Motion Picture
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Sep 12, 2018 03:30
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YOLOsubmarine posted:You also haven’t explained how it’s not optimistic despite it being about a multicultural crew thrown together by unfortunate circumstance and lead by a hot-headed misfit managing to overcome their differences to save the world. I guess because nobody dances to oldies in it? Ok then, I'm sorry you misunderstood so I'll rephrase. JJ Star Trek and Guardians of the Galaxy have a different tone. JJ Abrams does not understand how big space is and that a supernova is not a threat to the entire galaxy. I can't stand in my back yard and see Venus as large as the moon in the night sky even if an alien terrorist with a space power drill was blowing it up. I cannot suspend my sense of disbelief while watching JJ Abrams movies and I disliked the portrayal of Kirk as a skirt-chaser when TOS Kirk was very career minded and most of his indiscretions happened in circumstances where he was not in his right mind. The destruction of Vulcan, one of the Federation's most pacifistic races, opened the door for the Federation to build themselves a loving battleship in the next movie. "The Federation are also assholes" is not really what I wanted out of Star Trek so I checked out of NuTrek. Maybe they turned it around in Beyond, I haven't seen it. I bring up Star Trek Discovery solely because "The Federation are Also Assholes" seems to be that show's driving narrative. Guardians is about a band of gently caress-ups who come together under strained circumstances to help each other fix their mistakes and in doing so make the universe a slightly better place for at least a little while. Peter Quill is a child but he learns from his biggest mistake in the first movie (stealing the space mcguffin) and Rocket repeating that mistake by stealing a different space mcguffin in the second is grounds for their falling out. I found the second movie the weaker of the two with some missed character beats but the Guardians coming back together because they realize they make each other better people in spite of their gently caress-ups is still compelling to me. Their mistakes are still poised to come back to bite them in the next movie but even the cartoon raccoon is allowed to experience some moments of personal growth. My opinions on either franchise don't change the fact that Mike Cernovich is a neo nazi who has made a career out of exploiting people's outrage and successfully tricked Disney into making a mistake. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 03:41
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PoptartsNinja posted:Ok then, I'm sorry you misunderstood so I'll rephrase. JJ Star Trek and Guardians of the Galaxy have a different tone. I’m talking specifically about one movie, not a tv series or the sequels or anything else, simply Star Trek (2009) and asking you explain in what way it’s not optimistic, whereas Guardians of the Galaxy is. You made a very specific statement about Guardians being a rebirth of optimistic, hopeful sci fi and your response to every counterexample has been to talk about mostly irrelevant things like how space is portrayed or the rapacious appetites of space capitalism or whatever. Also, nobody at Disney was tricked. James Gunn was fired based on things he actually wrote.
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Sep 12, 2018 05:09
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You're insane.
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Sep 12, 2018 05:12
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On a business level, I think that this James Gunn saga has probably been the worst thing to happen to the MCU, and I think that it will probably have knock-on effects that ultimately kill the MCU. I'm actually sad about this, even though I'm not really a fan of the MCU and have watched very few MCU movies, because I've gradually shifted away from rooting against the MCU's hegemony and towards rooting for it (for accelerationism's sake).
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Sep 12, 2018 05:41
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PoptartsNinja posted:But something happened between 1997 and today that drastically changed the way sci-fi was presented and the big, bright, and colorful universes were replaced with dark, cramped corridors and depressing, claustrophobic, and interchangeable settings that could all fit into a universe the size of a postage stamp. PoptartsNinja posted:
Guardians of the Galaxy is about mercenaries bonding through killing terrorists. This is incredibly bleak, but you don't care about genuine optimism. You care about feeling good. This is why you fail to realize that you've enjoyed just another stop-the-terrorist movie, but with more bright primary colours. And again, this bullshit is dependent on bad memory. Marvel already put out a colourful space movie called Thor two years before Guardians. Just the year before there was Elysium, a movie about the poor overthrowing the rich in space, and the triumphant Man of Steel. The settings of these movies were dark and bleak, but that serves to make their optimism all the more significant. But they weren't feel-good enough, apparently. e: chitoryu12 posted:They're not quite criminals after the first film. They're still rougher and more on the outside of the law, but they're generally fighting to keep people safe rather than committing crime or hunting bounties for profit. They probably earned more cred with the Nova Corps than any other life form in the galaxy by warning them of Ronan's attack and saving basically the entire galaxy from him. So Marvel has a sci-fi universe where anything can happen, but they end up imagining a story about mercenaries fighting terrorists and working with military juntas? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 07:52
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CelticPredator posted:You're insane. I assume you are talking about this: YOLOsubmarine posted:Also, nobody at Disney was tricked. James Gunn was fired based on things he actually wrote. If so, where was the deception? Disney made their decision with a pretty full knowledge of the facts I think? We might not like or agree with their decision but I struggle to frame it as them being tricked.
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Sep 12, 2018 07:56
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It’s the second part. Honestly if you think the firing is justified you’re insane in my opinion.
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Sep 12, 2018 08:20
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That's just venality. The only reason you care so strongly is that you're Gunn's fanboy, and he got exposed by the "wrong" person.
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Sep 12, 2018 08:27
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Guardians of the Galaxy is about mercenaries bonding through killing terrorists. It's quite possible you're right. I quite liked Thor even if it was a bit rough around the edges, and I didn't see either Elysium or Man of Steel. DC hasn't made a movie I've enjoyed so I've given everything since Superman Returns a pass. I may have been fooled by the pretty set dressing done up in retro-50s kitsch. Perhaps D&D (the game, not the forum) has conditioned me to root for the plucky mercenaries who get swept into world-shattering events too easily. Maybe Peter Quill's just a well crafted viewer stand-in and I got suckered in. If Guardians 3 doesn't get made it's hardly the end of the world, movies just don't matter all that much to me save as something to enjoy and chat about with friends after the fact. Guardians is a movie I don't regret seeing by a director I'll watch movies from in the future whether he's with Disney or not. If Disney was looking for an excuse to let him go, it's between Gunn and Disney. I doubt anyone's careers will be hindered by this long-term, but the circumstances make Disney look foolish.
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Sep 12, 2018 08:56
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:exposed  This is a maliciously bad take. Mike Cernovich didn't "expose" anything; everything he posted about James Gunn had been a matter of public record since before Disney even hired him. This isn't a case where some misdeed of Gunn's was hidden from the public until some brave whistleblower called him out. This is literally just a case of a rabblerouser quote-mining someone's social media accounts to advance a defamatory narrative about them.
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Sep 12, 2018 09:09
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21 Muns posted:This is literally just a case of a rabblerouser quote-mining someone's social media accounts to advance a defamatory narrative about them. Tragedy, ain't it.
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Sep 12, 2018 09:15
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Thor (the first one) isn't a space movie, there aren't even any spaceships in it. Its as much a space movie as I dunno Wizard of Oz or something.
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Sep 12, 2018 09:36
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Thor (the first one) isn't a space movie, there aren't even any spaceships in it. Its as much a space movie as I dunno Wizard of Oz or something. It's about a bunch of aliens pretending to be gods and travelling between different planets. They just have teleportation instead of spaceships.
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Sep 12, 2018 09:44
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CelticPredator posted:Even so, the funniest part about all this to me is Disney revamping the Tower of Terror to a Guardians ride Wow, that actually pisses me off more than anything. That was one of the only good rides at Disney World.
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Sep 12, 2018 12:46
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21 Muns posted:
Gunn had even brought up the tweets himself a year before this and apologized for tjenesten.
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Sep 12, 2018 13:18
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Alhazred posted:Gunn had even brought up the tweets himself a year before this and apologized for tjenesten. This. Disney knew since he was hired, people on twitter actually called him out on his tweets years ago, he later apologized. He apologized again in interviews. And again when this poo poo show was brought on him, and again and again and again...and I'm sure he keeps apologizing to this day. The thing is that he wasn't back paddling like many other shitlords do. He acknowledged he was an rear end, the severity of his tweets and actually tried to do something about it.
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Sep 12, 2018 14:07
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I thought that was to do with the blog or whatever where he described or rated or whatever superheroines that he wanted to gently caress?
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Sep 12, 2018 14:24
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CelticPredator posted:It’s the second part. Honestly if you think the firing is justified you’re insane in my opinion. I didn’t say anything about whether it was justified. 21 Muns posted:
Something doesn’t have to be hidden to be exposed. When someone says “college is a place where you’re exposed to new ideas” it doesn’t mean those ideas aren’t publicly available before college. For lots of people this was the first time seeing the tweets Gunn made. Including, presumably, some important people at Disney.
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Sep 12, 2018 14:51
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