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Andrigaar posted:I swear he's taken a leadership role above or equal to Void the way the story has panned out in the past decade. As Void seemed to be the figurehead previously with lots of center placement in the art and splash panels. Void is the only one who can make new Apostles as far as we know. Since we've only seen him brand sacrifices. I'm pretty sure that alone puts him ahead of Griffith in the pecking order. The talk about how Griffith getting his own kingdom is just the start does make me think he'll go against the other God Hands at some point. He's not the type to be content with just being their equal.
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Sep 10, 2018 06:04
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Ccs posted:I’m of the were-Griffith theory that every full moon Griffith reverts into his Guts and Casks child form. This chapter showing he’s the only one to be able to traverse the world tree helps confirm it. Earlier he needed to have Zodd fly him to be with his parents like in volume 28. Having Guts have to murder his and Casca's child is a very Berserk thing so I can see it.
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Sep 10, 2018 06:34
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I've been assuming that Void's plan is for Griffith to conquer the whole world so he'll be in a position to sacrifice it.
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Sep 10, 2018 09:02
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Having Guts have to murder his and Casca's child is a very Berserk thing so I can see it. berserk isn't that grim. the bulk of the story is nothing like that. the godhand are monkey paws. they don't have an agenda per se. destroying the world doesn't seem like a desire, especially since the egg demon remade the world. temple fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Sep 10, 2018 |
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Sep 10, 2018 13:46
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How much of the world is left that isn't Falconia or magical monster territory though? Also it'll be a very berserk thing for the walk ways that Griffith makes to just path into a giant sacrificial mark on the planet.
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Sep 10, 2018 15:12
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What would be the darkest way for this story to reasonably end? Like I half expect this to resolve with Guts sacrificing most of his new friends just to kill Griffith. Maybe Isidro lives and spends the rest of his life seeking revenge on the legendary Black Swordsman, continuing the cycle.
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Sep 10, 2018 15:34
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Raxivace posted:What would be the darkest way for this story to reasonably end?
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Sep 10, 2018 16:07
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The end result is magic leaving the world, to be replaced by capitalism.
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Sep 10, 2018 16:24
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Raxivace posted:What would be the darkest way for this story to reasonably end? the crew abruptly dies to a random encounter
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Sep 10, 2018 16:51
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I'd really be surprised if Guts makes it out alive. I can't see him sacrificing anyone to finish Griffith or using the behelit to become a Godhand level demon or something in that vein to fight Griffith on an equal footing. I want Guts to be happy 😭
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Sep 10, 2018 17:16
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guts will wake up and realize the entire series was all a dream and he goes and hugs his wife Casca and his son Griffith Happy End
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Sep 10, 2018 17:25
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Raxivace posted:What would be the darkest way for this story to reasonably end? It's a Shinji situation but Griffith instead, or maybe its a Devilman deal where Griffith realizes his gently caress up but only as his true friends die next to him. Honestly, I think it won't be happy per se, but I hope Guts kills all the demons and survives as the baddest man to ever walk the earth. The concept that Falconia is simply a gathering plan for another huge sacrifice I rather like though. Could be how Griffith plans to become powerful enough to overtake the rest of the Godhand using their own rules.
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Sep 10, 2018 20:49
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Griffith can't rule the entire world yet, and he probably can't quite beat Guts either, let alone Guts and Casca as a team. Griffith has already witnessed super apostle status in the Shiva transform, so he knows it's possible. All he needs is a big enough sacrifice and he'll finally be able to make Guts pay.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:29
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I don't see Void as having the required emotional attachment, unless he made that poo poo up to screw with people, so that'd likely only leave Griffith able to turn Falconia into a meat platter and unwilling sex toy for the demons of sacrifice. Also, the sacrificing of an entire populace theme isn't the newest and it'd be mostly extras this time. Miura would really need a good angle for the impact to be felt if that was where the plot was headed, and that sort of makes me hope it isn't where it's going honestly.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:58
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demons in berserk aren't power hungry. they are powerless people sacrificing their humanity to exceed their limits. the idea of sacrificing falconia doesn't make sense because who would do it? griffith is a member of the godhand. he (allegedly) cut off his humanity, so he can't sacrifice falconia because it isn't tied to him. the only attachments to his humanity are guts and casca and they are already branded. i think that's why he had to use their child as a medium for his return because his ritual was incomplete due to guts and casca surviving. and griffith's and the godhand plan was to unite humans and demons. destroying falconia doesn't do anything. it would be chaos destroying the humans in wh40k. the godhand needs human desire to exist. killing all humans doesn't aid them, humans are why they exist. temple fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 03:29
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The Godhand's ultimate plan seems to be agents of immanetizing humanity's collective unconscious. Merging the astral world with the real world did most of that, but maybe there's another level that just wants all of humanity to just become that vortex of swirling souls. Or it's about creating for humanity some definite purpose. Now that the world is basically a fantasy novel it elevates humanity into this beyond state of heroic purpose. As opposed to before when it was just a myriad of suffering. I still don't fully understand the connection between the fantasy creatures and humanity. If humanity didn't exist would they still exist in the astral world or all they all the creation of humanity's imagination made flesh?
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Sep 11, 2018 04:09
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the godhand exists for people's need for a reason. someone dies in the woods, a monster ate them. someone gets sick, its a demon plague. the godhand are born from the desire to make life have meaning.
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Sep 11, 2018 04:56
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temple posted:demons in berserk aren't power hungry. they are powerless people sacrificing their humanity to exceed their limits. the idea of sacrificing falconia doesn't make sense because who would do it? griffith is a member of the godhand. he (allegedly) cut off his humanity, so he can't sacrifice falconia because it isn't tied to him. the only attachments to his humanity are guts and casca and they are already branded. I don't think Griffith has entirely cut off his humanity. Guts and Casca were supposed to be part of his sacrifice, and they're still alive. To him, they were the most important people in the Band of the Hawk, in his entire life. We've already seen him willing to show human qualities when it comes to Rickert as well. Desire is a changeable thing, and he only was pushed to sacrifice them under extreme circumstances in a decision which had to be made on the spot. I believe Muira has been asked what Godhand's goal is, and he answered "Void." What Griffith is doing has always just been a step towards a larger purpose. He's ultimately a Buddhist character. Perpetuating his power or even his existence has never been his goal. His goal isn't just to change the world. His goal is an ultimate solution to suffering, and ending physical life entirely isn't a particularly extreme solution for a manga villain. Forget Evangelion, that's currently a standard goal for someone like Madara in a children's show like Naruto. He absolutely wants to free humanity from the suffering of existence, to be replaced by something totally abstract that has no reference to life as we would define it. e: A good place to look for comparison is SMT3, where the world is destroyed and almost all human souls returned to an abstract state at the beginning of the game, and recreation of the world aligned with an ethical "Reason" is the outcome being determined by the plot. Madara's goal in Naruto, and one which shows up in other shojen such as Negima/UQ holder is present as "Musubi." It isn't a cliche yet, but it's obvious enough to show up in manga which are not nearly as philosophically inclined as Berserk. A possibility closer to what is likely here is "Shijima" quote:"All at one with the world." Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 11:09
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I'd really be surprised if Guts makes it out alive. I can't see him sacrificing anyone to finish Griffith or using the behelit to become a Godhand level demon or something in that vein to fight Griffith on an equal footing.
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Sep 11, 2018 11:39
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Hodgepodge posted:I don't think Griffith has entirely cut off his humanity. Guts and Casca were supposed to be part of his sacrifice, and they're still alive. To him, they were the most important people in the Band of the Hawk, in his entire life. We've already seen him willing to show human qualities when it comes to Rickert as well. Desire is a changeable thing, and he only was pushed to sacrifice them under extreme circumstances in a decision which had to be made on the spot. i think people are trying fit berserk in common tropes when its has consistent, almost 30 year narrative about fate and desire. i think when berserk is finished, it will be easier to see the whole story as complete message, instead like most mangas, needing to invent bigger and badder threats to continue the series. temple fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 12:47
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Griffith has always been about killing, manipulating and betraying people for his dream and it's kind of fitting for Griffith to become too big for any potential dream, a world spanning kingdom or power the Godhand could grant to satisfy him. Like Alexander The Great weeping about Anaxarchus discussing an infinite amount of worlds and yet Alexander was not a lord of one. Griffith has always been a creature of ambition and where do you go when you have your world spanning kingdom? Sit and rot or desire something even more? That's how a Falconia sacrifice would go down in my mind. Where Griffith would throw away what he has yet again for something that maybe even the Godhand don't even know.
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Sep 11, 2018 15:45
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it boils down to if griffith is tied to falconia like he was to the hawks? griffith whored himself to a pedarest to avoid years of bloodshed for his soldiers. he's more complicated than he seems.
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Sep 11, 2018 17:19
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temple posted:the godhand and griffith won. there isn't anything left for them to accomplish. at this point, they are cleaning up loose ends. griffith has to kill off any belief system (and figure) that would compete with his messianic destiny. falconia are literally killing off pagans. i don't how the story could be more clear. Saying that they have nothing left to accomplish implies that you know what they are trying to accomplish.
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Sep 11, 2018 19:22
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It's gonna end with Griffith somehow being stripped of his godhand powers and reverting back to gimp form
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Sep 11, 2018 19:27
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Hodgepodge posted:Saying that they have nothing left to accomplish implies that you know what they are trying to accomplish. i know what they have said and they wanted to bring out a merging of the spiritual world and the material world. demons are now living with humans. griffith is reborn. its to hard image that the bad guys won but they did. a long time ago too.
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Sep 11, 2018 19:30
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quote:A possibility closer to what is likely here is "Shijima" Nice to see I'm not alone on that. It was one of my own earlier theories. Now? Well, I don't know, but I do think that he wants to be the only God, the only option. The WORLD must be Falconia or nothing.
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Sep 11, 2018 19:33
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temple posted:it boils down to if griffith is tied to falconia like he was to the hawks? griffith whored himself to a pedarest to avoid years of bloodshed for his soldiers. he's more complicated than he seems. Well not just that, but if the Kingdom that he did all that for satisfies him in the end. I think that's the beautiful part of Void's creation of Griffith. That if they want him to sacrifice his kingdom at this point, well, they don't really need to poke Griffith that much. I don't think your ideas are wrong, I'm just questioning what would be the most Griffith reason for a sacrifice of Falconia. Would it be because he needs something more? Would it be because he wants to be a god that remakes the world further than the conjunction of worlds? Does he grow a conscience with the moon kid he's possessing? Crabtree fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 22:55
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I don't see Griffith sacrificing Falconia because you can't really activate a behilit unless you're feeling despair and he hasn't shown a smidge of emotion in years. Also, there's nothing dramatic or interesting about that because the audience hates Griffith and really who gives a poo poo about Falconia?
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Sep 11, 2018 23:26
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If everything is currently perfect, what happens in another 216 years? And who said this is what the Godhand wanted? It seems at least to be what Griffith wants, but the others haven't materialized to help him out (not that we know). If Behi is used, will that individual see Griffith in the lineup or will Void say "he revoked his membership"? If the Godhand feeds on the evil in the human mind, isn't everything Griffith is doing undermining their very existence? Are they in fact going to be his enemies?
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Sep 12, 2018 00:26
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I do wonder if Void even has a plan, or if he’s just a ‘que será, será’ sort of guy.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:29
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temple posted:i know what they have said and they wanted to bring out a merging of the spiritual world and the material world. demons are now living with humans. griffith is reborn. its to hard image that the bad guys won but they did. a long time ago too. They operate through causality, which means that any plans they have take time to develop. Causality and the problem of suffering due to desire and attachment are themes which come specifically from Buddhism, and the endgame for a demonic Buddhist isn't "bring about a millennial paradise." It's ending the cycle of suffering, which is ultimately the cycle of birth and rebirth. Emptiness is a particularly important concept in Buddhism, characterized as fundamental to human experience. The ultimate nature of reality itself is an existential void. Especially in Zen Buddhism, this is the beginning point of spiritual understanding. Nishida Kitaro, the most influential Japanese philosopher of the 20th Century, described this concept, Mu, as the "bedrock of Japanese culture." These themes are fundamental to Fist of the North Star, something of an influence on Berserk. "The strongest thing in this world is nothingness." This does not, of course, necessarily lead to nihilism. Muso Tensei, "Nil-Thought Rebirth" is the ultimate technique of Hokuto Shin Ken, used by Kenshiro to bring an age of peace. And these are, for North Americans, advanced rather than basic concepts, and this is by no means necessarily a positive feature of Western culture. However, when existential emptiness is the starting point of a fundamental cultural philosophy and coming to terms with this the outcome of mastery of spiritual self-development, nihilism and anti-materialism do become genuine philosophical problems, not simply mere "tropes." This is especially true in a society characterized by the alienation produced by capitalism. Likewise, Void's plan may not ultimately be malevolent, even in the typical sense of having good intentions. It isn't actually clear if Guts' actions ultimately oppose causality, or if they rather fulfill Void's prophetic vision. After all, Casca's survival from the Eclipse turned out to be necessary for Femto's incarnation. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 01:33
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Guts slice man half sword!!!
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Sep 12, 2018 02:43
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Hodgepodge posted:It isn't actually clear if Guts' actions ultimately oppose causality, or if they rather fulfill Void's prophetic vision. After all, Casca's survival from the Eclipse turned out to be necessary for Femto's incarnation. Guts and Skully are kinda-sorta "outside" causality, I think? Skull Knight uses that metaphor of a fish leaping over a pond and disrupting the moon's reflection, except him and Guts are both fish that could come close to actually killing the moon. The only catch is that by being outside causality, they destabilize the world on a fundamental level. If Guts and Casca didn't survive the Eclipse, Griffith wouldn't have taken physical form. If Skully didn't try to kill Femto with the Sword of Literally Cuts Holes In The Fabric Of Reality, the astral world wouldn't have leaked through into ours. This has worked out mostly well for the Godhand as a whole, but was it part of their plan? If our world is a reflection of the moon's surface on a pond, what happens when the moon and its reflection are one and the same? And what happens this time when those two fish come back and try to kill it? Moonshine Rhyme posted:Guts slice man half sword!!! Best part of Berk when big sword go swish swoosh
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Sep 12, 2018 03:05
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remember that we are going by what the godhand and skull knight have said. there is no reason to belief causality matters. guts is proof that causality isn't real. as said many times before, the point of the story might be that fate doesn't matter because that's pretty much guts's motto.
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Sep 12, 2018 03:08
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Hodgepodge posted:They operate through causality, which means that any plans they have take time to develop. fyi:there is no reincarnation in berserk. the dead stay dead. temple fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 11:36
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temple posted:you should read up on norse mythology. guts and co are in elfhiem, guts has 1 eye and arm, his mentor is a skull, the villain has an army of giants, including a dragon and wolf. pretty on the nose. And? What themes are being developed through this imagery, and do you think they contradict my argument? There's also Christian themes, what with Griffith being a crucified and reborn saviour and all.
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Sep 12, 2018 12:13
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Zzulu posted:It's gonna end with Griffith somehow being stripped of his godhand powers and reverting back to gimp form I would really like to see this with all of the god hand and see their original human forms
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Sep 12, 2018 12:27
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Hodgepodge posted:And? What themes are being developed through this imagery, and do you think they contradict my argument? guts and co are currently located in alfheim , land of the elves, connected to the world tree yggdrasil. if miura wanted the story to focus of buddhism, i'm sure he would do that instead of placing everything in a western setting
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Sep 12, 2018 13:48
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Oh I get it, this means Guts is going to join the Avengers.
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Sep 12, 2018 14:30
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I mean, norse stuff is also a popular naming convention in Japan for some reason so it could be used for a completely alien place to the normal person which is also pretty fitting so far.
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Sep 12, 2018 14:55
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