|
Alien Rope Burn posted:There could be an art to deliberately putting flaws in your game in a subtle and deliberate way if you're doing it largely as an art project, or just... I think there's a thing where a lot of popular games are badly flawed, and my conspiracy brain tells me that has to be deliberate at some point no matter how unlikely that seems. Flaws generate discussion. There's not much to say about a game that doesn't have many flaws, because, you know. It's just good.
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 00:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 16:45 |
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah - the structure of an obtuse rpg book is something you could use to make art with, much like Fire on the Velvet Horizon is like, art in the form/style of a monster manual. Agreed, Fire On The Velvet Horizon is a really great example of that kind of thing
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
Kai Tave posted:I mean, in most cases I think it's much more likely that games are flawed because the bar to calling yourself a Professional Roleplaying Game Designer is so low as to be nonexistent rather than some sort of "any publicity is good publicity" gambit. I don't think people would ever set up to make flawed games necessarily, but shrugging and deciding they're Good Enough games I find more plausible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 02:36
|
|
|
If you're going to compare to Jenna's stuff, it's probably easiest to compare Wick's new thing to Wisher, Theurgist, Fatalist, which is basically a roleplaying game where you complete the broken rules of the RPG you're playing as you play it. Oh, if you didn't notice, Jenna has a new, proper website, with stuff about her mysterious new projects and similar!
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 02:59
|
|
|
Precambrian posted:He's interpreting ergodic literature to mean "hard to understand," but that's a really bad definition of what "nontrivial work" means. One of the very first examples Espen Aarseth gives when coining the term is the I-Ching. Using a randomizing method, you use the book to produce one of more than 4,000 possible texts. It's not that the reader is confused or has to struggle to read, it's that there's some outside process that the reader has to produce to organize a linear text. More simple, "more than trivial" =/= "hard". I think the most pragmatic version of an ergodic rulebook would be one that changes the rules depending on the number of players on the table, but it could also be a rulebook that changes based on the room you're playing in or what time of year you're reading it. looking forward to Finnegan's Wake: the RPG
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:I never heard of ergodicity before a few hours ago, but it's not wrong to say that Brown Box D&D is incomplete (because it's literally a supplement for a game some of the customers had never heard of), that Gygax's writing style in AD&D is almost deliberately obtuse, and that D&D sometimes lacks a correct answer on how two different rules interact. But what's the point of doing that poo poo on purpose? Nostalgia? For people who probably would never play his game anyway? Wick's probably doing it for nostalgia, but it's also likely that he learned a new word and immediately became fascinated with it being the essential What Makes Games Good, or maybe because it's an intellectual-sounding excuse for his usual shtick. Whatever the reason, he's doing something a lot of people already do, but doing it in a particularly smug way. An ergodic RPG book might have some utility, like a game that had its rules in blocks, and different circumstances (2 players versus 6, a one shot versus a long campaign) would use a different set of blocks. I think it's kind of an academic point, though, because RPG books are more reference materials than what we might call "literature," and so it's naturally going to be something that is read through indices and alternative structures instead of "left to right, top to bottom, turn the page." gradenko_2000 posted:looking forward to Finnegan's Wake: the RPG An RPG where everyone gets together and tries to conceal that none of them, including the DM and the player who really pushed for the game, actually read more than five pages of the rulebook.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 04:40
|
|
|
I think I would be interested in seeing what John Wick makes, rather than just angry at the thought of John Wick making things. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 06:03
|
|
|
God, I just checked and Laguna is like a decade old already so it’s not even a cutting edge idea Wick is jumping onto.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 06:10
|
|
|
food court bailiff posted:Nobody pays attention to 5E, least of all Hasbro of the Coast. But still, I'm going to say that no matter what your feelings on 5E are it's pretty disingenuous to compare its marketing to whatever this thing is. Like, 5E had a ton of playtesting support and stuff (that they completely ignored, but even then...) - it's a far cry from "we left out a WHOLE PAGE, do you guys remember Kevin Siembieda? lolwackyrandom!".
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 07:06
|
|
|
Precambrian posted:An RPG where everyone gets together and tries to conceal that none of them, including the DM and the player who really pushed for the game, actually read more than five pages of the rulebook.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 09:47
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:If you're going to compare to Jenna's stuff, it's probably easiest to compare Wick's new thing to Wisher, Theurgist, Fatalist, which is basically a roleplaying game where you complete the broken rules of the RPG you're playing as you play it. I read the entire wtf and now my brain hurts
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Paranoia? Sounds... treasonous.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 18:26
|
|
|
Precambrian posted:An RPG where everyone gets together and tries to conceal that none of them, including the DM and the player who really pushed for the game, actually read more than five pages of the rulebook. Everyone gets five pages of a rulebook and are told everyone else has the full copy, they just need to bullshit their way through. One player just got five pages of flavor text from one of the Warhammer 40k rulebooks, and the GM is convinced they're running a World of Synnibar clone. I'd play it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 18:54
|
|
|
I could see some merit in a game where you're just told that your character class has all these weird and weirdly specific abilities and restrictions, and it's up to you to figure it out at the table. This would necessitate a game where everyone plays quirky classes like the paladin, druid, bard, etc. and not fighters and wizards.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
Bedlamdan posted:I think I would be interested in seeing what John Wick makes, rather than just angry at the thought of John Wick making things. Well you're in luck, he's written a whole lot of stuff. Now you can go and read it and make up your own mind on things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:I could see some merit in a game where you're just told that your character class has all these weird and weirdly specific abilities and restrictions, and it's up to you to figure it out at the table.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 19:15
|
|
|
This isn't the first time John Wick has talked about doing a faux-retro game - he was supposed to be writing a Warhamster 3rd Edition RPG a long time ago for John Kovalic, based off the fictional game in Dork Tower, but it never was finished or published for whatever reason. He had a whole fake authorship and backstory behind it which I think was in his articles at Gaming Outpost on it, along with a d1000 resolution roll? My memories of it are more than a bit hazy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 21:22
|
|
|
After dealing with 1.5hr long sessions of people muddling through filling in their character sheets and rambling on about their character's concept, I suddenly understand why people like DCC's randomly generated funnels. Cuts all that poo poo out and gets the action rolling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 01:06
|
|
|
Are there any good systems out there which are based around the Age of Sail or simply heavily dedicated to being on some pre industrial vessel? I find that D&D needs heavy modification to be suitable for an in depth nautical campaign so I was curious if there were systems which did it right out of the gate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 01:09
|
|
|
Nominally I guess 7th Sea might do something like that, but I don’t know. I’ve never played it and it looks very generic, but if any game should, it will. (But I would be shocked if it did because the game’s always been occasionally decent fluff with garbage to not too terrible mechanics.) Torchbearer might actually work. It basically already has a mechanic for scurvy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 01:37
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Kind of like one of those "WHo lives in what house" puzzles except with rules exceptions, crosses with Mao. The Ranger knows he attacks with dexterity and "can attack twice per round instead of once". The Barbarian knows she rolls to attack using d8s instead of d6s and uses brawn. The Wizard knows they cast spells using int and succeed on a 3. The Rogue knows they roll one additional d6 when attacking. The only table talk allowed is in-character OR explicitly describing the rule you're using from your sheet. The textual example that always sticks in my mind is how one of the ranger's abilities is "only a 1d6 chance to be surprised" and the displacer beast is like "surprises 4/6 of the time" and how you're supposed to do the math on that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 02:03
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:The textual example that always sticks in my mind is how one of the ranger's abilities is "only a 1d6 chance to be surprised" and the displacer beast is like "surprises 4/6 of the time" and how you're supposed to do the math on that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
SkySteak posted:Are there any good systems out there which are based around the Age of Sail or simply heavily dedicated to being on some pre industrial vessel? I find that D&D needs heavy modification to be suitable for an in depth nautical campaign so I was curious if there were systems which did it right out of the gate. There's an alternate version of Fragged Empire called Fragged Seas.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 03:20
|
|
|
SkySteak posted:Are there any good systems out there which are based around the Age of Sail or simply heavily dedicated to being on some pre industrial vessel? I find that D&D needs heavy modification to be suitable for an in depth nautical campaign so I was curious if there were systems which did it right out of the gate. Are you looking for detailed tactical naval combat, or just general support for life on and around ships? If it's the latter, then Spellbound Kingdoms might do you, particularly if you want to get into mass combat or run a well fleshed-out organization.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 03:43
|
|
|
SkySteak posted:Are there any good systems out there which are based around the Age of Sail or simply heavily dedicated to being on some pre industrial vessel? I find that D&D needs heavy modification to be suitable for an in depth nautical campaign so I was curious if there were systems which did it right out of the gate.  
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 04:34
|
|
|
How many glaives can that baby transport?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 04:37
|
|
|
Cassa posted:How many glaives can that baby transport? So many.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 04:41
|
|
|
A viking longboat with Glaives for Oars
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 04:44
|
|
|
Haystack posted:Are you looking for detailed tactical naval combat, or just general support for life on and around ships? If it's the latter, then Spellbound Kingdoms might do you, particularly if you want to get into mass combat or run a well fleshed-out organization. I am looking for the latter really! Essentially just support for life at sea and nautical campaigns; combat being something that doesn't have to be a wargame. As said there are supplements for even 5e, but I feel like seeing if there were any dedicated systems out would be wise.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 11:45
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:After dealing with 1.5hr long sessions of people muddling through filling in their character sheets and rambling on about their character's concept, I suddenly understand why people like DCC's randomly generated funnels. Cuts all that poo poo out and gets the action rolling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 11:54
|
|
|
Elephant Parade posted:Meh; it's a rare interaction, and any of the three ways you can interpret the interaction (ranger's surprise rate overrides, displacer beast's surprise rate overrides, convert both rates to modifiers and add them to the base) can be justified. There should definitely be an explanation somewhere, but it's the tiniest of tiny flaws. Thankfully, the rest of AD&D is easy to understand and intuitive! https://idiscepolidellamanticora.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/addict.pdf
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 11:58
|
|
|
Splicer posted:If you managed a full group character creation in only 1.5 hours you must be some form of time wizard. Really? It’s so much time, though. The 5e module I’m in had us make our characters in advance and it started off on the right foot and has been great so far. I really do think that quick character creation is important if you’re only gonna be playing for 2.5~3 hrs total.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 13:31
|
|
|
Splicer posted:If you managed a full group character creation in only 1.5 hours you must be some form of time wizard. Pollyanna posted:Really? It’s so much time, though. The 5e module I’m in had us make our characters in advance and it started off on the right foot and has been great so far. I really do think that quick character creation is important if you’re only gonna be playing for 2.5~3 hrs total. No not really. Splicer has dndptsd that causes him to hallucinate about new and interesting ways in which it has wronged him. But yeah if you want to jump right in with new people, just use pre-made characters and let them pick one. Hell I do premades with most one off games I run, new players or no.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 15:08
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Really? It’s so much time, though. The 5e module I’m in had us make our characters in advance and it started off on the right foot and has been great so far. I really do think that quick character creation is important if you’re only gonna be playing for 2.5~3 hrs total. Are you playing a one shot? D&D character creation times tend to be prohibitive for that. There are D&D likes with quick character generation time if that’s what your after, but if you’re set on a 5e one shot I would use premades.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 15:36
|
|
|
whydirt posted:Thankfully, the rest of AD&D is easy to understand and intuitive!
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 15:40
|
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:No not really. Splicer has dndptsd that causes him to hallucinate about new and interesting ways in which it has wronged him. But yeah if you want to jump right in with new people, just use pre-made characters and let them pick one. Hell I do premades with most one off games I run, new players or no. DalaranJ posted:Are you playing a one shot? D&D character creation times tend to be prohibitive for that. I’m more speaking about my first experience with GMing Dungeon World where we had to wait on a pickup player to fill out his sheet which took half the allotted time, and similar results in other online games recently. DW character creation isn’t even a long process  I also value Awesome per Second due to my time being limited in games.Also, is it just me, or is playing IRL much more engaging than over Discord or Roll20? I’ve found it hard to pay attention and keep up to date in an online game if I’m not GMing, whereas IRL has been perfectly fine so far.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 15:59
|
|
|
Yeah, it's not that there's a couple of corner cases that come up in AD&D rules, it's that the game is pretty much nothing but those corner cases. I can see why the designers of 3.0 went for a unified system.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 16:00
|
|
|
potatocubed posted:Yeah, it's not that there's a couple of corner cases that come up in AD&D rules, it's that the game is pretty much nothing but those corner cases. Yeah, the design trajectory in 2->3->4 is very clear. I'm really not sure why there was such a backlash against 4e.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 16:02
|
|
|
Yeah, with that particular problem, it's at least a d6 based system so it's easy to fudge. What I find really absurd is when a given combat round involves multiple abilities with varying basic die mechanics and/or unique charts. An odd outcome of AD&D's terrible organization is that when played by the book, classes have functions that are implicit. The ranger's surprise and damage bonuses make them great at whittling down those hordes of humanoid mooks with a hail of arrows before they can mob you. It's often touted as the edition where only the DM needs to know the rules, but in practice you're groping in the dark if you don't know these rules and understand them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 16:45 |
|
|
fool_of_sound posted:I'm really not sure why there was such a backlash against 4e. Paizo deliberately stirred the pot because no one was going to jump ship to Pathfinder without the whole "one true D&D, 4e is a betrayal" schtick
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 16:08
|
|