|
https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1039697816220651520 https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1039698363480862720 https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/1039700569315631107 I wonder if that means Disney have him a hard time with Gravity Falls 
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 14:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 03:29 |
|
|
Pakled posted:I wonder if that means Disney have him a hard time with Gravity Falls Or maybe that project he was working on at Fox that never came to be? Or maybe both?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 14:31
|
|
|
I think part of it is his experience on Gravity Falls (Where he had to fight the network on multiple issues including LGBT representation), and part of it is his experience in the industry and relationships with fellow creators. After all, the experience of "We like your show, now please change everything that makes it interesting or unique," is fairly common in the entertainment industry as network executives are almost universally morons, and it's easy to see why creators would be willing to do anything to avoid having to deal with them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 16:26
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:After all, the experience of "We like your show, now please change everything that makes it interesting or unique," is fairly common in the entertainment industry as network executives are almost universally morons, and it's easy to see why creators would be willing to do anything to avoid having to deal with them. Though, there's something to be said about the healthy tension that sometimes drives creativity. That's mostly from trying to get past Censor randomness than from bad notes from Execs that probably don't get the show. It really boggles the mind how bad some of these people are at their jobs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 17:40
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:After all, the experience of "We like your show, now please change everything that makes it interesting or unique," is fairly common in the entertainment industry as network executives are almost universally morons, and it's easy to see why creators would be willing to do anything to avoid having to deal with them. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
How do these network execs get their jobs?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 18:37
|
|
|
TV Zombie posted:How do these network execs get their jobs?
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
TV Zombie posted:How do these network execs get their jobs? They're hired by other Network execs, obviously Also yeah, combination of boy's club, hiring friends, that kind of stuff. Network execs are also fearful and craven beings who secretly understand they're getting paid to do nothing, and feel the need to constantly meddle with shows they're only marginally attached to in order to justify their own existence. It is worth noting though that some of them are competent, or at least end up making good shows by accident. In the original concept for Star vs the Forces of Evil, for example, Star was an ordinary kid who had watched too much Sailor Moon and believed she had magic powers. Right before Daron Nefcy made the pitch to Disney, she was asked to rework it so that Star actually did had magic powers—so in effect, they asked her to pitch a completely different show. But she did it, the show got picked up, and if anything it turned out to be even more weird and unique. But obviously, that's the success story—there's far more examples of execs killing shows out of incompetence or even sheer maliciousness (The Critic). e: in short, the best use for network execs is still, by far being ground up into Torgo's Executive Powder. It has a million and one uses! Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:They're hired by other Network execs, obviously Yeah I've read the original comics that Star Vs is based on, and they were not very good
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 19:00
|
|
|
TV Zombie posted:How do these network execs get their jobs? The majority of the work that they actually do is invisible to creators and fans, the idea that they're just a bunch of incompetent busybodies is mostly confirmation bias from them being blamed when things go poorly and creators mouthing off when they don't get their way. Like Hirsch might have complained about not being allowed to have a same-sex kiss because the network was afraid of pissing off fundies or getting notes on a man beating up a fish being too violent but he also talked about how the one time he strongarmed the network to airing a new episode on a day of his choosing instead of the schedule they had devised it got way worse ratings than usual and how they were general very supporting and helpful in getting the show made when he was in over his head as a new showrunner. Like I thought the entire takeaway from the glut of crowdfunded failures and disappointments was that when left to their own devices most creatives are actually pretty terrible at managing projects and creating an end product that isn't self-indulgent trash because there was nobody to tell them no or left unfinished due to running out of interest and flitting along to whatever new thing catches their interest.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 20:45
|
|
|
Hilda premiers on Netflix on September 21st: https://www.cartoonbrew.com/internet-television/watch-the-trailer-for-netflixs-new-hilda-series-163971.html
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
Guy Mann posted:The majority of the work that they actually do is invisible to creators and fans, the idea that they're just a bunch of incompetent busybodies is mostly confirmation bias from them being blamed when things go poorly and creators mouthing off when they don't get their way. Like Hirsch might have complained about not being allowed to have a same-sex kiss because the network was afraid of pissing off fundies or getting notes on a man beating up a fish being too violent but he also talked about how the one time he strongarmed the network to airing a new episode on a day of his choosing instead of the schedule they had devised it got way worse ratings than usual and how they were general very supporting and helpful in getting the show made when he was in over his head as a new showrunner. It's obviously not fair to paint all network executives with the same brush—many of them are veterans of television production and have a solid sense of what works and what doesn't. But there are countless examples of examples of executives meddling with shows for the sake of showing they're involved, or outright trying to kill things so they can claim success. Part of the reason why The Simpsons was so successful, after all, was that the network was not allowed to give them notes, which meant that they could break new ground without having to worry about being restrained by executives who didn't understand what they were doing. And where the network was involved, it was to the show's detriment—like when they switched from Sunday nights to Thursdays to make it compete directly against The Cosby Show, which tanked the ratings to a degree that it never recovered. e: Let's also not forget that these executives are often the ones who have for years restrained shows into strict gender roles and held back animated programs for girls with only a handful of exceptions because 'girls don't buy as many toys as boys'. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Sep 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 21:08
|
|
|
So, on a different note, I've been tempted to give Star VS the Forces of Evil a watch, due to one of my co-workers going on and on about it. And then of course this one other idiot I happen to work with sent me this via e-mail as an attempt to "convert" me. Jackass always does this whenever I hold a dissenting opinion on a thing (or are even interested in a thing he doesn't like). As someone who has never watched the show (but is really considering doing so) does the video make ANY accurate points? I personally doubt it considering one of the guy's other videos is talking about how amazing the stupid 90's Spider-Man cartoon is,which makes ANY of his opinions suspect.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 22:05
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:So, on a different note, I've been tempted to give Star VS the Forces of Evil a watch, due to one of my co-workers going on and on about it. And then of course this one other idiot I happen to work with sent me this via e-mail as an attempt to "convert" me. Jackass always does this whenever I hold a dissenting opinion on a thing (or are even interested in a thing he doesn't like). As someone who has never watched the show (but is really considering doing so) does the video make ANY accurate points? I personally doubt it considering one of the guy's other videos is talking about how amazing the stupid 90's Spider-Man cartoon is,which makes ANY of his opinions suspect. You're gonna have to summarize since I'm not watching 16 minutes of that guy's voice
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 22:26
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:You're gonna have to summarize since I'm not watching 16 minutes of that guy's voice Basically the complaints boil down to "the status quo changes too much, certain characters get Flanderized,and there's too much shipping."
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 22:27
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:Basically the complaints boil down to "the status quo changes too much, certain characters get Flanderized,and there's too much shipping." There's probably a grain of truth to some of those complaints (Except the Flanderizing one, that I don't get), but the degree to which they're true is pretty subjective. Personally, I'd just watch the show, and if you like it, you like it, if you don't, you don't. Don't trust idiots on the internet to give you their opinions—especially me
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 22:36
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:Basically the complaints boil down to "the status quo changes too much, certain characters get Flanderized,and there's too much shipping." Honestly that first one doesn't seem like a problem to me, one of the things about cartoons that often bugs me is how they often are too beholden to the Status Quo, and it ends up making a lot of episodes feel meaningless cause you automatically know how it's going to end(Animated Sitcoms are especially bad about this)
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 22:43
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:Honestly that first one doesn't seem like a problem to me, one of the things about cartoons that often bugs me is how they often are too beholden to the Status Quo, and it ends up making a lot of episodes feel meaningless cause you automatically know how it's going to end(Animated Sitcoms are especially bad about this) Yeah, unless you only plan to watch a few episodes outside of order, there's really no reason to maintain a status quo It's a fun show with a cast which actually develops over time. If it had stayed on the level of the first few episodes, it would probably be way worse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 22:50
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:There's probably a grain of truth to some of those complaints (Except the Flanderizing one, that I don't get), but the degree to which they're true is pretty subjective. Personally, I'd just watch the show, and if you like it, you like it, if you don't, you don't. Don't trust idiots on the internet to give you their opinions—especially me Apparently the Flanderizing is due to each of the main characters (Star and Marco) each getting a love interest only to basically discard said love interest for each other. I have no idea as to how true that is,as someone who's never watched the show. And yeah, I still want to give it a try. Dude tried to "convert" me from Gravity Falls and it wound up being one of my favorite animated shows in the last few years (the flawed second season notwithstanding). VolticSurge fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Sep 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 22:53
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:Apparently the Flanderizing is due to each of the main characters (Star and Marco) each getting a love interest only to basically discard said love interest for each other. I have no idea as to how true that is,as someone who's never watched the show. And yeah, I still want to give it a try. Dude tried to "convert" me from Gravity Falls and it wound up being one of my favorite animated shows in the last few years (the flawed second season notwithstanding). Star and Marco's relationship is... complicated, to say the least, but it's also pretty true to the characters and to young adult relationships in general, in my own opinion. Not everyone agrees, but it's also the most subjective thing in the show so  also if your coworker doesn't like Gravity Falls I think you can safely discard all of their opinions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 23:03
|
|
|
Star might rival Sanic for ORIGINAL CHARACTER AND PLOT, PLZ DO NOT STEAL (BUT IF YOU USE IT IN YOR FANSHIP, PLZ LINK MY INSTAGRAM) crazyness. From last I remember, Twitter had created something like 6 "main" offspring characters (Aurora, Cressida, etc) and there's two alt-reality children trying to make sure their parents get together in some zero-sum BTTF thing, and someone put them all together in a Council Of Ricks interdimensional space station and it's all crazypants. As for that video, it's kind of Cinemasins poo poo. I.e. Season 2 wand stuff -- It's supposed to push Star away from being both careless with her magic and relying on her wand to fix everything. In a bigger sense, the corruption at the heart of the wand is the first steps to her questioning her world and actually being a person (instead of the crazypants kid she was from S1). More to the point, the meaning of the title changes from season to season. S1 Evil is the big strokes 80s cartoon poo poo where Ludo wants the wand and he's got incompetent minions. Toffee upends that because he's an actual threat, he's not a cartoon character. Later the Forces of Evil kind of reflect the unjust society that Mewni is built on, treatment of Monsters, social constructs and whatnot. The latest season was all about tearing down toxic personal/family narratives and looking at historical "truth" from different points of view. I think that's cool, and there's a lot about growing into positions of responsibility the show looks into. Shipping comments are meh. It's a show set in High School. Dealing with dumb crushes and realizing the person you're chasing isn't the person you care about is kind of par for the course. I think they've done some real good with Tom, making him actually a character instead of a cardboard obstacle. The show kind of started as Sailor Moon but More Usagi and More Irresponsible, so I like that it's grown in a few ways. //oh god, this review is insufferable. He complains that a major plot point in the last season was left unresolved. No. It wasn't. The FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Sep 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2018 23:08
|
|
|
Most creatives resent being restricted or edited in any way shape or form, and that is literally the job of the executives when they try to mitigate risk and maintain product appeal. There's always going to be give and take, although I get the sense that Netflix has more money than they know what to do with, which is why they can afford to just plop down shows like they're doing. Maybe they have less opportunity cost as well? Or maybe they're being extra-risky with their investments just so that they can quickly establish loyal marketshare for their original content and they'll shift back towards more traditional network exec cautiousness after it's passed. The big networks are still putting out some really good stuff, but they're definitely not pulling the kind of money Netflix is. I don't envy them having to adapt to new monetization schemes Also all the old networks are tied up with the cable cartel, so it's sort of the same situation as Blockbuster, the big companies took control of the market and then got lazy, so they're falling behind. Jokes on us all though because internet access is controlled by the same cartels. VolticSurge posted:Apparently the Flanderizing is due to each of the main characters (Star and Marco) each getting a love interest only to basically discard said love interest for each other. I have no idea as to how true that is,as someone who's never watched the show. And yeah, I still want to give it a try. Dude tried to "convert" me from Gravity Falls and it wound up being one of my favorite animated shows in the last few years (the flawed second season notwithstanding). There's definitely a lot of shipping stuff there, but it's not exactly a central plot point. You might be able to ignore it if you want to, but it's always there. I feel like at least the relationships it baits for shipping purposes are better than the ones that Gravity Falls does though. It's just dumb teens trying to figure out their dumb feelings.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 01:18
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:Basically the complaints boil down to "the status quo changes too much, certain characters get Flanderized,and there's too much shipping." Points 2 and 3 vary on a case by case basis, you'll have to watch to see if it's too much for you. And as for point 1, season 3's the only one with big changes TwoPair fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Sep 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 01:39
|
|
|
Wait who in GF was going to have a same sex kiss?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 01:42
|
|
|
The seasons get so exponentially better after each other, it basically becomes an entirely different show. I watched the season in reverse order, and season 1 is practically irrelevant to the later ones. Season 1 is basically negative continuity to the rest of the show.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 01:48
|
|
|
I watched the first two episodes of Star Vs. shortly after they premiered and I thought it was a bit too twee for my tastes. I picked the show up again after the end of season 1 when this thread was gushing about it and my only regret was not watching it sooner.readingatwork posted:Wait who in GF was going to have a same sex kiss? Sheriff Blubs and Deputy Durland. It's heavily implied in the series finale they're a couple. Hirsch wanted to make it official earlier and make it more obvious, but Disney fought him on it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 02:21
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Sheriff Blubs and Deputy Durland. It's heavily implied in the series finale they're a couple. Hirsch wanted to make it official earlier and make it more obvious, but Disney fought him on it. There was a moment earlier in the show in the episode The Love God where Cupid was going to use his magic to get two old grannies together. To paraphrase Hirsch, the second he saw it he thought it was A) entirely appropriate B) absolutely adorable and C) going to be a hell of a fight with the network. In the end after a significant back-and-forth, the network told him to cut it out or they would—and he didn't, so they did. SlothfulCobra posted:The seasons get so exponentially better after each other, it basically becomes an entirely different show. Season 1 does have some good episodes (Mewberty, St. Olga's) and sets up Toffee and the Monster-Mewman conflict for Season 2, but it really is incredible just how much the show has changed since then. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Sep 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 02:26
|
|
|
I highly doubt there are any people in this thread who watched and/or liked 6teen, but if there are, they just released their first episode in 8 years, and it is kinda surreal, if only because I'm pretty sure this show takes place in Canada: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2vdlxw3Ni8
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 02:51
|
|
|
I remember that show. It was lame. But I'm sorta happy they mentioned Trump by name. That's pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 02:56
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:"We like your show, now please change everything that makes it interesting or unique," Remember that time the Harpy Gee lady pitch her comic to a cartoon studio (Disney I think?) and they were all like "Hey we love your pitch, but could you make the main character into a boy? and also change the fantasy setting to a highschool in modern day America?"
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
Whitenoise Poster posted:Remember that time the Harpy Gee lady pitch her comic to a cartoon studio (Disney I think?) and they were all like "Hey we love your pitch, but could you make the main character into a boy? and also change the fantasy setting to a highschool in modern day America?" Sometimes you want to make a show that hits at specific demographics and you'd rather have someone good do it than some rando. Also sometimes I hear they do that poo poo to see if you actually believe in your own vision.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 03:39
|
|
|
cartoons123 posted:I highly doubt there are any people in this thread who watched and/or liked 6teen, but if there are, they just released their first episode in 8 years, and it is kinda surreal, if only because I'm pretty sure this show takes place in Canada: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2vdlxw3Ni8 Wait wait wait, the way you said first episode in 8 years implies it was never actually cancelled. Is this possible? My mind's reeling here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 04:29
|
|
|
I watched the crap out of 6teen back in the day. But from all the weird Canadian cartoons of my youth this one seemed like, least likely to ever do a thing again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 05:16
|
|
|
Total Dramarama also had a 6teen reference in one of its episodes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
There's basically an expanded universe of forgotten Canadian cartoons, probably.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 05:55
|
|
|
Waffleman_ posted:Total Dramarama also had a 6teen reference in one of its episodes. Well that and Jude is a main character(most likely because despite being a Total Drama series it doesn't have Chris but they wanted his VA to be involved)
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 06:02
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:There's basically an expanded universe of forgotten Canadian cartoons, probably. They just keep the time when Yvon was thawed out to present day to keep the timeline straight.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 07:26
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:Well that and Jude is a main character(most likely because despite being a Total Drama series it doesn't have Chris but they wanted his VA to be involved) Wait...I completely forgot he wasn't from Total Drama....
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 14:43
|
|
|
The one Canadian cartoon I'll never make sense of is Angela Anaconda. The late 90s were a weird time for animation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 03:29 |
|
|
Jason Sextro posted:The one Canadian cartoon I'll never make sense of is Angela Anaconda. The late 90s were a weird time for animation. The Digimon fandom will never forgive that show for existing
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2018 17:27
|
|