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Tremek posted:It's fun, go get it. Much like the spergs mad about drow and making their own rules to get around the mechanics, if there's pieces of it that are imperfect (and there are), go change it. That's what I'm going to do. If you have to change the text in order to create good play, it's neither fun nor good. Expect better from your RPG products that you're buying.
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Sep 13, 2018 20:36
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This thread is the nadir of D&D.
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Sep 13, 2018 20:39
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Kaysette posted:This thread is the nadir of D&D. As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be for ever. Amen.
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Sep 13, 2018 20:41
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Kaysette posted:This thread is the nadir of D&D. No wait don-
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Sep 13, 2018 20:50
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The old 5e threads kicked rear end.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:00
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Is there at least a dragon? Two types, Dragons the Coins and an a actual dragon. The biggest flaw Dragon Heist has is that Dyson Logos did the interior maps. Here an example of his work.  While normally those maps are perfectly fine. The issue is that those types of maps kind of feel low quality in a professional book. Here is a tavern map from Dragon Heist.  MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 21:00
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SettingSun posted:Why is this argument still persisting. Instead I'd like some more opinions about why Dragon Heist is bad before I get the better of myself and buy it. the group stealth stuff is busted, and I saw someone with further complaints inside about it not actually even being a heist. gently caress finding it right now though. You'd be better off just designing your own thing, a heist sounds elaborate but it's pretty close to a standard dungeon crawl.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:02
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Sion posted:yo is it pronounced drow as in 'ow that hurt' or drow as in 'row your boat'
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Sep 13, 2018 21:06
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Ferrinus posted:The old 5e threads kicked rear end.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:09
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MonsterEnvy posted:Two types, Dragons the Coins and an a actual dragon. Shut your loving mouth, Dyson Logos' art is badass.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:12
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I want to be a mind flayer now.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:22
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Arivia posted:Shut your loving mouth, Dyson Logos' art is badass. I fully support anyone that remembers to put bathrooms on their floorplans (tho they really need a door from the kitchen to the tap room) e: man, the more I look at that the less I like it. There's no access to a kitchen from the living space, so anyone living there needs to exit the building, walk all the away around to the front, then enter the taproom. Tear out the Hall wall on the second floor, and open the wall into the spare room, add a dumb waiter, and now you've got a large common room with a reading nook w/fireplace and the ability to get food/drinks sent up from below Azhais fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 21:26
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I want to be a mind flayer now. Which is why you're also a DM
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Sep 13, 2018 21:27
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Do we know anything about what the book after Dragon Heist will be?
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Sep 13, 2018 21:27
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Yeah I've always liked those simple sketchy black and white maps with the hatch marked walls and poo poo and wind up trying to emulate them whenever I draw my own, but I had never put a name to them in my mind.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:29
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Mendrian posted:Curious about this. Can you be more specific? Yeah I can elaborate. chapter one is pretty ok for a level one introduction, no real problems there. chapter 2 has characters do nothing apart from run a business if they choose to, and do a couple of faction missions which amount to like one die check if run as written. which is supposed to level party up to level 3. Chapter 3, characters are thrust back into the main plot by a event, and do some light investigative work to arrive at some unclear and unforeshadowed people and conclusion. you can literally skip this chapter if you just tell the town guards your suspicions. chapter 4 is where it really starts to get bad. there are these 'encounter chains' that take place in various locations in the city while you chase a plot device. they are reskinned and repurposed depending what season/villain you are facing. it is assumed your characters don't get the item until the last area. It is extremely easy for them to do so in a lot of the areas. If your party gets the item before the required stop, I poo poo you not, the item refuses to comply and uses magic to keep itself out of the players hands, trying to keep itself in the dumb encounter chain. it will only comply once the train reaches the destination. The vault at the end is like a 9 room quite bare dungeon, nothing too special as written to get in. your players will not be able to heist the money. there is no grand heist, period. the final showdown will 99% be between the chosen main villain and whatever Forgotten Realms Powerul NPC the party has communicated with the most, with the party facing the lackeys and playing second fiddle. The villains and various NPC's in waterdeep are written exceptionally well. art and flavor is great. The problem is, without basically a whole adventure rewrite by the DM, or taking a lot of time weaving in the various characters it will all ultimately go to waste. I reckon without a proactive DM, u could go most of the adventure without knowing who the bad guy is supposed to be. Also they have changed map architects from mike schley to dyson logos, whose maps and layouts are worse. I cant get over how lovely the final vault is.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:30
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Arivia posted:Shut your loving mouth, Dyson Logos' art is badass. It's good. I just don't feel non color maps work in a professional product. Like I feel the maps are good and I will use them. But they feel low quality for the product. Even though I know their look is intentional.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:34
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MonsterEnvy posted:It's good. I just don't feel non color maps work in a professional product. Like I feel the maps are good and I will use them. But they feel low quality for the product. Even though I know their look is intentional. They're not low quality. They have a strong style that is effectively conveyed and are clearly readable - they're esthetically and technically well done. Yes, you are objecting following from your observation that the maps do not match the graphic design elements that you've become used to. You should say that, instead of lying and saying they are "low quality."
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Sep 13, 2018 21:37
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Arivia posted:They're not low quality. They have a strong style that is effectively conveyed and are clearly readable - they're esthetically and technically well done. Yes, you are objecting following from your observation that the maps do not match the graphic design elements that you've become used to. You should say that, instead of lying and saying they are "low quality." The maps are low quality with low, strange or omitted detail in waterdeep dragon heist. Mike would have done a better job no question.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:42
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Proud Rat Mom posted:The maps are low quality with low, strange or omitted detail in waterdeep dragon heist. Mike would have done a better job no question. I can't speak to the other maps because I haven't seen any of them except the one MonsterEnvy linked, but that one was fine. Keep in mind that in adventures the original designer often hands off a quick or cursory map the cartographer has to reinterpret and produce a usable version of. Missing details may not be the cartographer's fault. If the rest of the book is trash, the material the cartographer had to work with probably was as well.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:46
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Arivia posted:They're not low quality. They have a strong style that is effectively conveyed and are clearly readable - they're esthetically and technically well done. Yes, you are objecting following from your observation that the maps do not match the graphic design elements that you've become used to. You should say that, instead of lying and saying they are "low quality." True I would not call them low quality, they are not what I am used to. Arivia posted:I can't speak to the other maps because I haven't seen any of them except the one MonsterEnvy linked, but that one was fine. Keep in mind that in adventures the original designer often hands off a quick or cursory map the cartographer has to reinterpret and produce a usable version of. Missing details may not be the cartographer's fault. If the rest of the book is trash, the material the cartographer had to work with probably was as well. The book is for sure is not trash. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 21:54
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Does 5e have an ad&d style giant list of magic items?
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Sep 13, 2018 21:55
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MonsterEnvy posted:True I would not call them low quality, they are not what I am used to. MonsterEnvy posted:It's good. I just don't feel non color maps work in a professional product. Like I feel the maps are good and I will use them. But they feel low quality for the product. Even though I know their look is intentional. 
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Sep 13, 2018 21:57
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sebmojo posted:Does 5e have an ad&d style giant list of magic items? https://donjon.bin.sh/5e/magic_items/ Is helpful but I’m sure someone here will tell you it’s utter garbage
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Sep 13, 2018 22:00
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Dude literally opens with a concession to the counter point, and then revises his statement. Don't do this.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:01
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Lol, after all that, they never even specify that the dark skin elf pictured in the phb is the drow. How do you know that's not a high elf? The caption says "drizzt do'urden" or whatever but I don't care about the fanfiction you had to google for, he's a high elf. Drow have light skin and sunlight sensitivity, high elves are the goth ones, problem solved. (edit: they do say drow have dark skin textually but that doesn't mean the guy in the picture is a drow) Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 22:03
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Lol, after all that, they never even specify that the dark skin elf pictured in the phb is the drow. How do you know that's not a high elf? The caption says "drizzt do'urden" or whatever but I don't care about the fanfiction you had to google for, he's a high elf. Drow have light skin and sunlight sensitivity, high elves are the goth ones, problem solved. Reeeeeee not d&d reeeeeeeeee vvvvvvvv also reeeeeeee Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 22:13
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I feel the last 200 posts could be best resolved by "If someone wants to play a black high elf just let them play a black high elf"
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Sep 13, 2018 22:13
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Dameius posted:Dude literally opens with a concession to the counter point, and then revises his statement. Don't do this. REALLY don't do this. It's not funny, and all doing that does is make one out to be a useless troll. People are allowed to correct themselves or change their mind. As for the maps, they look great. The problem with the ones in all the other adventures is they are too artsy. Big overworld maps is one thing, but down to the nitty gritty is can be a pain.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:14
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I like these maps. I can print them without it being an ink hungry mess, or trace em pretty easily.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:19
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Arthil posted:REALLY don't do this. It's not funny, and all doing that does is make one out to be a useless troll. People are allowed to correct themselves or change their mind. No. This is the problem with MonsterEnvy. He is unwilling to admit he made a mistake - that he called the maps low quality - he instead retreats from any other arguments and disavows his old position or that he ever held that position. It's sophistry, pure weaseling that tries to make him come off as better and more considerate than he actually is. You will notice in his response he never says he was wrong - he just says "he wouldn't call them low quality", which suggests a different opinion now without ever rectifying his original argument. This is the kind of poo poo we see in the mass media all the time from slimy fuckers like Trump and it's unacceptable in places we can actually hold them to account for it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 13, 2018 22:22
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Arivia posted:No. I said true, I was agreeing with you. And I have admitted to making mistakes many times. They are not low quality. Cause clearly a lot of effort was put into making them. Even when I first said they feel low quality, I said I know they are supposed to look the way they are. You stated it's more that I am not used to maps like that, and I agreed that it was likely more the case then the maps being low quality. It was the just the best describing term I could think of at the time even if it was incorrect. It's more of a taking them at a glace thing. They don't look very good at a glance in my opinion, you have to take a better look at them. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 22:34
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Lol, after all that, they never even specify that the dark skin elf pictured in the phb is the drow. How do you know that's not a high elf? The caption says "drizzt do'urden" or whatever but I don't care about the fanfiction you had to google for, he's a high elf. Drow have light skin and sunlight sensitivity, high elves are the goth ones, problem solved. Actually the PHB on those pages has a sidebar that describes Drizzt and states he is a Drow.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:36
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mango sentinel posted:Do we know anything about what the book after Dragon Heist will be? http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/waterdeep-dungeon-mad-mage is the next book. It's supposed to be all Undermountain all the time, levels 6-20. Although as it's being represented as a fast-follower for Dragon Heist it stands to reason your characters will still have at some points access to Waterdeep and anything your group set up topside in the previous adventure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbVRQIOuI8s
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Sep 13, 2018 22:36
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Agreeing with someone isn't the same thing as admitting your own mistake. And no, you repeatedly refuse to own up to your own mistakes and misstatements when pressed, which is part of what makes you the worst poster in this thread. Fix your posting dude.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:37
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Oh gently caress off with that dumb bullshit. This isn't some Oxford rules debate or something. Guy concedes the point and restates his idea using the language he just conceded to. He doesn't need to prostrate himself to the thread for daring to be wrong. Monsterenvy could make his next post be nothing but how Mearls is a poo poo game dev and that 5e suffers under his lead and you guys would still find a way to dog pile against him.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:39
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But it'd never be, because to this day ME denies Mearls is a dogshit Zak S apologist.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:42
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Dameius posted:Oh gently caress off with that dumb bullshit. This isn't some Oxford rules debate or something. Guy concedes the point and restates his idea using the language he just conceded to. He doesn't need to prostrate himself to the thread for daring to be wrong. "True, I would not call them low quality." is a statement of truth value. The truth value is attached to the action of "calling them low quality." Because MonsterEnvy has already called the maps low quality, this statement is easily demonstrably false. He is lying. That is not a concession or a restatement, that is an outright lie. We know from past experience that MonsterEnvy lies to cover for himself when pressured, and the same thing is occuring here. If he had said: "True, I should not have called them low quality" or "True. I would not call them low quality in future" those are different statements that would be concessions. But he didn't say those. Words have meanings. Use the right ones. edit: I have assumed a comma after True in his post. If there's no comma things are even worse and even more bald-faced lying because then it's all a single clause and there is literally no room for interpretation otherwise.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:43
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I'm going to regret engaging on this topic, but he didn't say they are (as in, objectively) low-quality, he said they felt (subjectively) low-quality, to him, because they weren't colour, but he acknowledged that was an intentional style choice and he said they were good and he would use them, all in the same post that you're raging at. I don't know what the gently caress else you want from him? People are allowed to have preferences.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:44
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Arivia posted:"True, I would not call them low quality." is a statement of truth value. The truth value is attached to the action of "calling them low quality." Because MonsterEnvy has already called the maps low quality, this statement is easily demonstrably false. He is lying. I am not great with words. I intended it to be more on the level of "True, I should not have called them low quality". Sorry I messed up my sentence. Mainly for the fact you then felt the need to nitpick it and make a deal out of what was me agreeing with you.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:48
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