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The problem is not that hard to solve, actually: enforce all derails with the same zealousness that Dems-Are-Bad offtopicness is enforced. Food chat? Probation. Which is better, cats or dogs? Probation. "How about those leftists, amirite fellas?  " - Probation.There's nothing wrong with forcing people to stay on topic in a megathread, but what happens in the Trump thread is more like anything goes except this one thing. I mean even PPJ himself drags the thread off-topic occasionally with the Twitter dumps (although, to his credit, he did probate himself when I called him out on it that one time  )
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Sep 13, 2018 21:20
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Ytlaya posted:This is the only part that really rubs me the wrong way. I would understand if keeping all debates of that nature out of the thread was enforced, but people frequently make snide little comments aimed at the left without recourse.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:21
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Yea if you for some reason think the thread to post tweets where the president says "THOSE HURRICANE DEATHS ARE FAKE" and laugh needs to be rigidly maintained as a laser focus on Trump that's weird but fine.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:22
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Trump thread is useful as a place for the "Hillary is my waifu" posters to go recharge after they post literally anywhere else and get made fun of by everyone. Let them have their hugbox. It's like a museum commemorating how insufferable the forums were in between the summer of 2015 and the fall of 2016.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:25
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Trump thread is useful as a place for the "Hillary is my waifu" posters to go recharge after they post literally anywhere else and get made fun of by everyone. Let them have their hugbox.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:28
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:The problem is not that hard to solve, actually: enforce all derails with the same zealousness that Dems-Are-Bad offtopicness is enforced. From their point of view, the Trump thread is a bunch of intelligent professionals having a friendly chat about politics that may sometimes go down other tangents, but it's all friendly and good. But then suddenly in comes the uncouth leftist, who is probably dressed like a poor person and is not as serious and educated as them (they know this because all serious and educated people have political views that you can find frequently reflected in mainstream newspapers and television).
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Sep 13, 2018 21:29
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Most of the people critical of establishment dems left for CSPAM long ago
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Sep 13, 2018 21:31
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Feldegast42 posted:Most of the people critical of establishment dems left for CSPAM long ago I contain multitudes, and a part of me wants to believe that some example or event will break through, but I think Ytalaya is right in the sense that I need to accept that while our interests align much more frequently than mine and a Republican’s do, they are not our allies and are at best sometimes useful.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:39
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Feldegast42 posted:Most of the people critical of establishment dems left for CSPAM long ago yeah i'm thinking i might have to migrate over. i got this av and my ban from posting about how the dems are also at fault for our current predicament.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:05
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Groovelord Neato posted:yeah i'm thinking i might have to migrate over. i got this av and my ban from posting about how the dems are also at fault for our current predicament. Democrats: Even bad at forums avatars.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:23
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Feldegast42 posted:Most of the people critical of establishment dems left for CSPAM long ago succ zone welcomes all who hate the libs (from the left, gently caress off chuds)
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Sep 13, 2018 22:31
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Trump thread is useful as a place for the "Hillary is my waifu" posters to go recharge after they post literally anywhere else and get made fun of by everyone. Let them have their hugbox. gently caress that poo poo. They deserve scorn, not a sanctioned place. Start a private reddit if you need a place to decompress with mods.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:31
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Raskolnikov38 posted:succ zone welcomes all who hate the libs (from the left, gently caress off chuds) 
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Sep 13, 2018 22:40
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selec posted:So the thread just becomes a place to gaze at the horror, but any honest discussion of what got us here, and the problem of how we get out of where we are, does not occur in there because you can only cheer for the opposition, rather than insist the opposition do better. You can only pray for the opposition, not drat them when they endorse or vote to confirm Republicans. The thread is the embodiment of The Better Things Aren't Possible caucus in this way. I'd love to see some of the "Dems actually the best  " posters earn some timeouts for their bait though. The guy mocking millenals for not voting for the "We're gonna gently caress you, but boy howdy ain't those other guys gonna gently caress you harder" party reminds me of all the reregs that spent summer 2016 mocking CelestialScribe mercilessly. what could have possibly happened that caused so many reregs in late 2016 boy I sure can't remember. I'm sure they're all serious posters with political views we should take with due consideration given their accurate analysis of the electorate.E: It appears I was either gifted an avatar or got cought up in the kobb/unkobb skirmishes. Neat, I've had newbie since '01. Thanks, anonymous benefactor, I like it.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:41
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You know what would be really great? If Party Plane Jones would also post his awesome and highly informative Twitterdumps in this thread too so that I could permanently avoid Hillary's Hugbox.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:44
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Brave New World posted:You know what would be really great? If Party Plane Jones would also post his awesome and highly informative Twitterdumps in this thread too so that I could permanently avoid Hillary's Hugbox. Mods have enough work to do. Just bookmark his "?" Koalas March fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 22:48
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Koalas March posted:Mods have enough work to do. Just bookmark his "?" you can do that?
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Sep 13, 2018 22:53
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sexpig by night posted:you can do that? I mean in your actual bookmarks not forums bookmarks.. but ngl that would be a pretty rad feature
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Sep 13, 2018 22:55
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Ah, yea I thought the forums got a cool rear end new feature that I didn't notice or something.
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Sep 13, 2018 22:55
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Eh it's not like all of D&D is a Dem-hugbox, just the one thread, and everyone knows it. I get that Trump is such a broad subject that touches so much of American politics that you have to exercise at least some moderation over the inevitable arguments and derails to keep the thread readable, if anything I'd say the Trump thread isn't modded strictly enough, probating every off-topic post about food or city culture or whatever would do a lot to make it possible to follow the thread without having to skip to the end. It would obviously be unworkable to probate all mention of Democrats, because the opposition party's response to the president's initiatives is inseparable from discussions about the president. You could ban all speculation about the opposition's potential responses or strategies but you'd have a majority of the thread in revolt about that, so I kinda get going the other way and just picking a consensus view and banning dissent, and since the Trump thread is mostly liberals hyperventilating about how rude the president is and reassuring each other that someone will stop him, there's your consensus. Is it kinda dumb that you can spin theories all day about how "eh vote for Justice Coat-Hanger Labor-Killer McBigot if you want to Dems it's fine" is infinite-dimensional chess but the response "nah Schumer probably said that because he meant it just like every other time he's said something like that" results in probation, yeah I guess, but it's not like that rule is a secret and it's not like every potential political view gets equal time anyway. Like I'm down with TGRS existing and making the same old arguments from the same people bannable.
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Sep 13, 2018 23:10
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I don't see how you can can have a Trump thread without making fun of the ineptness of the Democrats' resistance strategy in response to Trump.
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Sep 13, 2018 23:21
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Tbf some of the theorycrafting gets far enough out there it's indistinguishable from satire. For example "supply Gorsuch and Kavanaugh with enough Dem votes to give moderate Republicans cover to vote against" E: actually maybe that's how you sneak Dems Are Bad posting in, just go completely the other way VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 23:32
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VitalSigns posted:Some of the theorycrafting gets far enough out there it's indistinguishable from satire. Who said that? They should be mocked
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Sep 13, 2018 23:38
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Who said that? They should be mocked
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Sep 13, 2018 23:49
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:that sounds like something evilweasel would say, and then insist you are wrong that he said it and call you an idiot Yeah, I don't think you have evilweasel pegged at all. Were you falling for a disreputable dog troll, or perhaps a mcmagic post? I'd love to see an actual quote of someone who said anything like that instead of just relying on your insistence that people say it all the time.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:01
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Evilweasel's theory is that if you say overturning Roe is fine but then you bring up a ton of arcane procedural minutia from a decade ago that the average American will never hear nor give a poo poo about if they knew then moderate Republicans will fear the wrath of bowtie-spinning nerds and kill Kavanaugh themselves, saving red state Dems. But if you act like he really is unqualified and whip against him this doesn't work, you have to act like even you don't believe your own accusations that's the ticket VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 00:15
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VitalSigns posted:Evilweasel's theory is that if you say overturning Roe is fine but then you bring up a ton of arcane procedural minutia from a decade ago that the average American will never hear nor give a poo poo about if they knew then moderate Republicans will fear the wrath of bowtie-spinning nerds and kill Kavanaugh themselves, saving red state Dems. Also playing offense will offend key surburbanite demographics and the Dems will lose without them. Also also that there are no left-leaning people who currently don't vote but could be inspired to vote for the Dems if the Dems pretended like they gave a poo poo.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:22
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Utterly shocking that the spiritual successor to the c-spam Hillary thread, that all the c-spam Hillary thread posters fled to after being completely embarrassed, exhibits every single one of the immensely lovely qualities present in that thread when given free reign to do so all over again.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:51
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Oh Snapple! posted:Utterly shocking that the spiritual successor to the c-spam Hillary thread, that all the c-spam Hillary thread posters fled to after being completely embarrassed, exhibits every single one of the immensely lovely qualities present in that thread when given free reign to do so all over again. including mods who selectively enforce the rules to ban any dissenting views. i guess they just don't want debate and discussion in debate and discuss 
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Sep 14, 2018 01:00
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Having pro-succ-dem posters confined to one thread these days is lightyears better than dnd has ever been. Source: my rap sheet.
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Sep 14, 2018 01:14
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yeah, I don't think you have evilweasel pegged at all. If I showed you ten examples of evilweasel (or whoever) being a disingenuous rear end in a top hat in the Trump thread, you would absolutely agree that evilweasel (or whoever) was a disingenuous rear end in a top hat those ten times and not a single other thing would change in your brain. You're not worth my or anyone's time.
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Sep 14, 2018 01:20
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Willa Rogers posted:Having pro-succ-dem posters confined to one thread these days is lightyears better than dnd has ever been. the system at its finest
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Sep 14, 2018 01:33
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Majorian posted:Also also that there are no left-leaning people who currently don't vote but could be inspired to vote for the Dems if the Dems pretended like they gave a poo poo. Mind you, I don't think this is the thought process of Democratic politicians, at least not the ones in leadership positions, but it would explain the attitude of the typical moderate Democrat, toward the left.
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Sep 14, 2018 01:45
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Here's a mod challenge: quit playing favorites in the Trump thread. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 14, 2018 01:49
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I don't know why anyone would bother trying to convince you of anything at all, HY!L, because it is completely wasted effort every time. You definitely can be convinced of the badness of isolated incidents on the part of Democrats, which puts you a step above most Trump thread cheerleaders, but you have proven utterly incapable of pattern matching on that. You never learn. Let's see. No evidence, character attacks, baseless assertions. Yup, you nailed that one. Want to actually make an argument, or just stand there and act proud of the duece you dropped on the floor for everyone to see?
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Sep 14, 2018 02:03
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VitalSigns posted:Evilweasel's theory is that if you say overturning Roe is fine but then you bring up a ton of arcane procedural minutia from a decade ago that the average American will never hear nor give a poo poo about if they knew then moderate Republicans will fear the wrath of bowtie-spinning nerds and kill Kavanaugh themselves, saving red state Dems. Some of the comparatively smarter posters of this nature, like evilweasel or that one poster whose name starts with a P*, tend to share the same flaw in their logic, where they apply a ton of scrutiny towards any idea/opinion outside the Democratic mainstream but don't apply that same scrutiny towards status quo Democratic ideas (which are instead treated as a sort of "default"). This leads to a situation where they require the left to provide extensive proof of the things they claim, while not requiring this same proof for "staying the course" of current Democratic politics. Or they might sometimes claim to support the same ideas as the left, but come up with excuses (that are usually impossible to disprove) for why Democrats don't pass them. There's a tendency to always assume good faith unless a (often impossible) level of proof is supplied of ill intent. The situation with Obama and the public option is a really good example of this. Except they also use the strategy of "repeatedly use a talking point that has already been debunked in the hopes that the person they're arguing with forgets it's been debunked" in that case (since there's actually concrete evidence Obama never planned to do a public option). That sort of flawed logic would actually be fairly understandable (the general idea of treating the status quo as a "default" you treat with less scrutiny) if not for the fact that they're so incredibly smug and condescending. I'm not unaware that there's some hypocrisy in me accusing other people of being condescending, but the big difference is that they're being condescending from the perspective of people (in effect) defending the status quo (and usually from a position of great privilege). Plus the whole "being wrong in a way with negative consequences" thing. * not PD6A (or whatever the order of letters in their username is) Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 02:26
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I don't know why anyone would bother trying to convince you of anything at all, HY!L, because it is completely wasted effort every time. You definitely can be convinced of the badness of isolated incidents on the part of Democrats, which puts you a step above most Trump thread cheerleaders, but you have proven utterly incapable of pattern matching on that. You never learn. Condiv posted:including mods who selectively enforce the rules to ban any dissenting views. i guess they just don't want debate and discussion in debate and discuss Sneakster fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 02:34
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lmao "hiring"
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Sep 14, 2018 02:44
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Koalas March posted:lmao "hiring"
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Sep 14, 2018 02:47
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Sneakster posted:Conscripted to help keep the big bucks flowing to the forums politburo. we are truly the petite bourgeoisie
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