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Arcsquad12 posted:Are the Chris Wraight books more on the metaphysical side of things or more Bolter porn? Lords of Silence was rear end deep in Chaos dudes thinkin' Chaos thoughts and just a little bit of combat, but I don't know about others.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:31
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Watchers pf the Throne is about the chancellor of Terras high council, a sister of silence and a custodes dude and their assorted musings (plus some bolter porn) and a major spoiler: a rad sequence detailing the custodes travelling to the throneroom of the imperial palace which was all kinds of cool
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Sep 14, 2018 00:54
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Weissritter posted:Yeah, it really is. I read the Carrion Throne and Two Metaphysical Blades and now Chris Wraight is up there with ADB and Abnett for me. The short story Two metaphysical Blades is really good tie with wolfsbane.
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Sep 14, 2018 01:07
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Orv posted:Are there any, I was gonna say good books but since I'm back on a Warhammer kick I'll settle for decent books regarding The Minotaurs? They're one of those chapters that seems interesting from the blurbs but I'm not sure I've ever run across anything substantive. There was an audio drama about them and the Raven Guard that wasn't bad. But I can't remember reading anything about them edit: I looked it up, it was actually about the Brazen Minotaurs. Still good tho 
Guy Goodbody fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 01:23
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What the gently caress Cadia Stands e-book version is 5 dollars more than the paperback on amazon
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Sep 14, 2018 01:29
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Biplane posted:What the gently caress The print version is five dollars below MSRP.
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Sep 14, 2018 01:32
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But I don’t waaaant the stupid paper version 
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Sep 14, 2018 01:37
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Arcsquad12 posted:Are the Chris Wraight books more on the metaphysical side of things or more Bolter porn? I just read Wrath of Iron and there was a LOT of brutal warfare stuff but also a youngish Iron Hands dude wrestling with losing his empathy for humans as he considers his ever-more-bionic future He doesn’t and just ruthlessly guns down a former ally because hey an order to cleanse a planet is an order to cleanse a planet.
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Sep 14, 2018 01:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:Are the Chris Wraight books more on the metaphysical side of things or more Bolter porn? Wraight isn't your standard bolter-porn author, but he defies this in a different way than what Abnett or ADB do. like, ADB's gimmick, obviously, is that he's real good at getting inside the heads of the numerous hosed-up brainbroke superhumans in the setting and showing you how/why they're so hosed up that kind of close character examination isn't really Wraight's game nor does he specialize in War is Hell like Abnett does. what Wraight is really good at, imo, is politics and factionalism his heresy-era White Scars stuff, for instance, is all about the Khan's position as a political outsider who never accepted the Emperor's agenda, and the Scars' position as a Legion that never accepted assimilation into the broader Imperial culture. his Space Wolves stuff touches on some of those same themes, and delves into the Wolves's struggles with the shifting role they fulfill. If you're curious about the juxtaposition between heresy-era Wolves (unfeeling, emotionally-suppressed murdermen) and Bill King Wolves (jolly humanitarian space vikings), Wraight likes to wrestle with that. Wrath of Iron is about the inherent conflict between the human interests of the average Imperial citizen, and the vast, cruel, inhuman institutions of power the Imperium blindly wields in its defense. I think Wraight is maybe the only writer BL has that could have pulled off an M41 Custodes book, or, more generally, a book set on M41 Earth. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 05:01
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PupsOfWar posted:what Wraight is really good at, imo, is politics and factionalism I just finished carrion throne and I'm a few chapters into the Emperors legion and this is spot on. Though his bolter porn and action in general is also very good!
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Sep 14, 2018 05:52
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I think my single favourite thing in Lords of Silence was his description of how an Imperial Agri-world worked in the most characteristically hosed-up 40k way imaginable.
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Sep 14, 2018 08:10
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Deptfordx posted:I think my single favourite thing in Lords of Silence was his description of how an Imperial Agri-world worked in the most characteristically hosed-up 40k way imaginable. I liked that part but he borrowed a lot from his earlier book Red Tithe, about the prison planet.
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Sep 14, 2018 10:57
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Syncopated posted:I liked that part but he borrowed a lot from his earlier book Red Tithe, about the prison planet. Red Tithe is not penned by Chris Wright.
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Sep 14, 2018 11:11
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Deptfordx posted:Huh, I see the first Ciaphis Cain (Hero of the Imperium The Ciaphas Cain books always have a bunch of humorous footnotes added, right? How does the audio version handle them?
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Sep 14, 2018 11:15
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) novel just went up on audible.
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Angry Lobster posted:Red Tithe is not penned by Chris Wright. aw poo poo
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Sep 14, 2018 11:33
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Syncopated posted:I liked that part but he borrowed a lot from his earlier book Red Tithe, about the prison planet. What? Theyre not even a little similar dude.
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Sep 14, 2018 11:54
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Biplane posted:What the gently caress Black Library has no rhyme or reason for their ebook pricing whatsoever.
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Sep 14, 2018 13:59
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Senjuro posted:The Ciaphas Cain books always have a bunch of humorous footnotes added, right? How does the audio version handle them? I've got to do some travelling over the weekend. I'll probably blow an audible credit on it. Will report back.
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Sep 14, 2018 14:59
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Just finished 'Master of Mankind' ...That book kind of sucked. Everything was a shaggy dog slow burn for the last 15 pages, when Big Daddy E showed up and solved everything. Nothing of consequence happened, where half the main characters literally can't speak and the other half can only do grim one liners from bad Vietnam War films. It was just grindy useless fighting against unknowable hordes for 400 pages, then the Emperor got off his throne and closed the gate. Which... He could have done at any point, right? That was the whole reason he was staying in the Throne, to keep the gate and the Webway project viable? Couldn't he have evac'd everyone and stood up and have the same thing happen? Also, and this is probably covered in other books, but how the crap we're Chaos Astartes and Traitor Titans in the Webway? That seems... Pretty big to brush over? Sure it was nice to hear the Emperor speak and get confirmation on a lot of big picture things, but holy poo poo they could have given the answers in a more interesting way than a useless fight for a doomed city that everyone knows will fall.
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Sep 14, 2018 16:24
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Yeah I'm still not clear what's the purpose of sitting on the Golden Throne. First they tell us it's to psychically reinforce the human built part of the Webway because they don't know how to make it stable and permanent like the Eldar but after everyone evacuates the Webway they rush to turn off the machines keeping the gate open but it's too slow so the Emperor turns them off with his powers. So now the Throne's purpose is to keep the gate closed? If the gate is open by default and needs power to stay closed then what where all those machines that everyone hurried to turn off doing exactly? And why is it such a disaster that the human sections of the Webway are lost that even the Emperor loses all hope for the future? There's more than one way to get into the Webway. Every faction, including the Imperium, manages to find ways to get there when they really need to.
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Sep 14, 2018 16:47
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susan posted:Just finished 'Master of Mankind' ...That book kind of sucked. Everything was a shaggy dog slow burn for the last 15 pages, when Big Daddy E showed up and solved everything. Nothing of consequence happened, where half the main characters literally can't speak and the other half can only do grim one liners from bad Vietnam War films. It was just grindy useless fighting against unknowable hordes for 400 pages, then the Emperor got off his throne and closed the gate. Which... He could have done at any point, right? That was the whole reason he was staying in the Throne, to keep the gate and the Webway project viable? Couldn't he have evac'd everyone and stood up and have the same thing happen? Also, and this is probably covered in other books, but how the crap we're Chaos Astartes and Traitor Titans in the Webway? That seems... Pretty big to brush over? Sure it was nice to hear the Emperor speak and get confirmation on a lot of big picture things, but holy poo poo they could have given the answers in a more interesting way than a useless fight for a doomed city that everyone knows will fall. MoM spoilers I wouldn't say nothing happens the emperor finally gives into temptation to start feasting on sacrificed souls of pskers, that's what gives him the boost to get off the throne (and maybe summon the essence of ferrus manus and other dead heroes?) which is a pretty big deal. The emperor also basically is forced to give up on his dream of providing an alternative to warp travel he is at a loss on what to do, the gate is closed but the loyalists lost hard. You get alot of neat characterization for the emperor through RA and in general get a good picture of how desperate the situation is leading into the crumbling status quo that is 40k. Other books short stories go into how the traitors established bases near a few webway portals and are just throwing demons, world eaters and cultists into them to keep the pressure on, one of the later books Slaves to darkness has lorgar touring one of those bases for other reasons. I honestly really liked the book  but i can see why it might rub people the wrong way.
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Sep 14, 2018 17:20
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Zasze posted:MoM spoilers The psykers aren't for Him, they were brought in to keep powering the Throne while He's away.
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Sep 14, 2018 17:34
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susan posted:Just finished 'Master of Mankind' ...That book kind of sucked. Everything was a shaggy dog slow burn for the last 15 pages, when Big Daddy E showed up and solved everything. Nothing of consequence happened, where half the main characters literally can't speak and the other half can only do grim one liners from bad Vietnam War films. It was just grindy useless fighting against unknowable hordes for 400 pages, then the Emperor got off his throne and closed the gate. Which... He could have done at any point, right? That was the whole reason he was staying in the Throne, to keep the gate and the Webway project viable? Couldn't he have evac'd everyone and stood up and have the same thing happen? Also, and this is probably covered in other books, but how the crap we're Chaos Astartes and Traitor Titans in the Webway? That seems... Pretty big to brush over? Sure it was nice to hear the Emperor speak and get confirmation on a lot of big picture things, but holy poo poo they could have given the answers in a more interesting way than a useless fight for a doomed city that everyone knows will fall. Big E didn't solve everything, he made a big flashy show of golden light and fire and then got loving owned. Oh and his grand plan turned to ashes in front of him. Pretty sure the whole opening and closing of the webway gate isn't so simple. It's been a while since I read MoM but I remember it being pretty clear that not even the Emperor is 100% sure how everything works and is flying by the seat of his rear end. So brute forcing it into different states would not be a smart thing to do, like with any other kind of mechanical stuff irl, unless he had completely given up as is pretty clear near the end.
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Sep 14, 2018 18:05
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Zasze posted:MoM spoilers 'Master of Mankind' spoilers continued: On the subject of giving up his dream. ...Why? He lost one portal, one city. Sure, a nice city, a hub city, one that could have housed billions of souls probably and shielded them from the Warp. But that wasn't the end of the project, right? He was going to create other Gates on other worlds, other cities in the Webway, etc. This was a long, long, long term project and he was only in the beginning stages. Setbacks suck, but loving grow up Big E, the mopey doesn't look good on you.
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Sep 14, 2018 18:08
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susan posted:'Master of Mankind' spoilers continued: On the subject of giving up his dream. ...Why? He lost one portal, one city. Sure, a nice city, a hub city, one that could have housed billions of souls probably and shielded them from the Warp. But that wasn't the end of the project, right? He was going to create other Gates on other worlds, other cities in the Webway, etc. This was a long, long, long term project and he was only in the beginning stages. Setbacks suck, but loving grow up Big E, the mopey doesn't look good on you. Maybe the book didn't articulate well enough what a massive gently caress up it all was and what it would take to just keep everything from going Daemon World in a matter of moments. That webway on Terra was the rock upon which his church would be built and the demon of the first murder made him eat it. MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 18:24
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MariusLecter posted:Maybe the book didn't articulate well enough what a massive gently caress up it all was and what it would take to just keep everything from going Daemon World in a matter of moments. That webway on Terra was the rock upon his church would be built and the demon of the first murder made him eat it. I mean that's fair, but the Emperor is literally immortal and one of the most potent psykers ever. He could try again. Maybe it'll take a hundred years. A thousand. Ten thousand. But he could try again. poo poo, I don't get why he was so worried about things that he had to abandon the Great Crusade to start this Great Work early. If he had just focused on one thing at a time...
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Sep 14, 2018 18:52
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MariusLecter posted:Maybe the book didn't articulate well enough what a massive gently caress up it all was and what it would take to just keep everything from going Daemon World in a matter of moments. That webway on Terra was the rock upon his church would be built and the demon of the first murder made him eat it. I mean I think that was made clear if the book failed to articulate anything, it was maybe the sheer expenditure of irreplaceable resources by the Mechanicus They lost most of their foremost subject-matter experts on the Webway, a lot of valuable archeotech, and huge amounts of exotic building materials and military resources The rearguard action alone cost them so much that they seemingly weren't able to meaningfully participate in the latter part of the Horus Heresy as a ground force (which was just canon backfill necessitated by the fleshing-out of AdMech as a playable faction in tabletop, but still). You're talking probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of magi, skitarii, labor slaves, and servitors used up over the course of the project, along with thousands of Legio Cybernetica robots and other heavy war machines, and not a few Titans. so even if they'd been able to start over, it might have taken the AdMech decades or centuries to assemble the resources to do it again also remember that Mars and over half of the former Mechanicum was under rebel control at that point as far as anyone knew, there might not even be much of a tech-priesthood to work with, after the Heresy. the vibe I got was that the Webway project was doomed more or less as soon as Horus rebelled, and the Emperor had kept going out of spite and hubris. it's made clear that he doesn't really care about the Imperium other than as: - a buffer to keep any aliens from loving with Earth while he works on the webway project - a wide expanse to farm for resources to feed into the webway project those were functions that could no longer be fulfilled once civil war broke out.
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Sep 14, 2018 19:07
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Also the project being secret was a huge deal now that demons have an easy way in its hosed even if he moved the front door somewhere else. As far as we know before magnus demons could only enter via dysfunctions.
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Sep 14, 2018 20:04
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susan posted:I mean that's fair, but the Emperor is literally immortal and one of the most potent psykers ever. He could try again. Maybe it'll take a hundred years. A thousand. Ten thousand. But he could try again. poo poo, I don't get why he was so worried about things that he had to abandon the Great Crusade to start this Great Work early. If he had just focused on one thing at a time... It's been ten thousand years. Still holding out for Big E to continue making the webway?
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Sep 14, 2018 20:59
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Zasze posted:Also the project being secret was a huge deal now that demons have an easy way in its hosed even if he moved the front door somewhere else. This. It was already a colossal undertaking, even done with no meaningful opposittion and by a unified Imperium. Now the enemy is aware of what is going on, massive amounts of knowledge and material that made it even feasible have been lost, and the main architect himself is considerably diminished. I liked MoM overall, but did find it way too dry, as other noted. Other than the blood angel exile, everyone is barely above a sociopath/autistic level of social interaction, which can get tiresome quick. and for all the war and destruction, it feels oddly impersonal and samey. You'd never know the loyalist are losing if the book didn't tell you so directly, because every scene is just them kicking hordes of faceless traitor rear end without breaking a sweat. Really could have used a hard-fought duel of a custodes and daemon prince or Possessed World Eater to narrow the focus a bit.
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Sep 14, 2018 21:26
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The webway was lost not because chaos forces gained access to webway portals (which probably didnt help to be fair) but because magnus psychically breached the walls of the webway itself, allowing the warp to spill in unchecked. Thats why the emperor was on the throne, trying to reinforce the holed webway tunnels. Thats what the original psyker happy meals were for, just caulk basically. This is all spelled out in the book very clearly.
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Sep 14, 2018 21:56
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Biplane posted:The webway was lost not because chaos forces gained access to webway portals (which probably didnt help to be fair) but because magnus psychically breached the walls of the webway itself, allowing the warp to spill in unchecked. Thats why the emperor was on the throne, trying to reinforce the holed webway tunnels. Thats what the original psyker happy meals were for, just caulk basically. This is all spelled out in the book very clearly. That part was clear (enough). What didn't make sense was the reactions afterwards. Magnus cracked the walls and doomed the Great Work. This was obvious, this was known. ...So why did we fight inside the Webway and lose millions of Custodes, Sisters, and Mechanicus soldiers in the process? Webway was done, cooked, and every day that the city remained open required the Emperor to be strapped to his chair and not do anything else. Cut your losses, dude. Maybe this was a particularly brutal example of the Sunk Cost Fallacy, where no one wanted to admit that the city was doomed even though they knew deep down it was, and so they continued to waste untold priceless relics and lives in the vain attempt to keep it viable. But the Emperor should have known better. He really should have known. For an Immortal, he really showed a lack of patience on this one. Sephyr posted:You'd never know the loyalist are losing if the book didn't tell you so directly, because every scene is just them kicking hordes of faceless traitor rear end without breaking a sweat. Really could have used a hard-fought duel of a custodes and daemon prince or Possessed World Eater to narrow the focus a bit. That would have required enemies with personality... Seriously, I think the only enemy that had lines other than the anthropomorphized incarnation of Human Murder was that one World Eater that said 'Blood...' a few times before being summarily skewered. The book was basically 'Man vs Nature', where the forces of chaos were replacing the impersonal nature of a hurricane swallowing a town.
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Sep 14, 2018 22:47
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At this point in the story, The Emperor has literally never failed to accomplish a thing he set out to do. He's conquered the But that's what kids are for, I guess.
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Sep 14, 2018 23:32
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I have a question about chaos. Is it limited to one galaxy? Or is our galaxy the eye terror - galaxy version? Similarly, can the materium and immaterium ever fully merge?
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Sep 14, 2018 23:40
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notaspy posted:I have a question about chaos. The warp is anywhere there’s creatures with souls and feelings. My theory has always been warp travel can’t go through the void between galaxies since it would calm as the population decreased. So who knows the great game probably extends to other galaxies and times. Hell the nids are said to be running from something 
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Sep 15, 2018 00:24
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Zasze posted:The warp is anywhere there’s creatures with souls and feelings. My theory has always been warp travel can’t go through the void between galaxies since it would calm as the population decreased. But we can probably assume that even the gods can't stray too far from where the minds that sustain them are located so they're bound to their home galaxies as well. If that wasn't the case then there would be a lot more than a total of 4 Chaos and 3 Eldar gods to deal with.
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Sep 15, 2018 00:42
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notaspy posted:I have a question about chaos. I mean we don't have any material set outside the galaxy, and characters rarely think about extragalactic matters we can infer that the immaterium exists throughout the universe, since the Tyranids are extragalactic and they use the immaterium to travel "chaos" as we know it all predicates from stuff that happened in the milky way - we are told that the first demons emerged as a reaction to the War in Heaven, while the current four Chaos gods arose as a reaction to the humans and eldar - but, since the immaterium doesn't operate under normal time/space constraints, I don't think we can rule out the idea that these same chaotic entities could have influence in other galaxies my best guess however is that other galaxies would have their own flavors or versions of chaos lifeless galaxies might not, there being nothing to feed on there more placid or peaceful galaxies, if such a thing exists, might have immaterial spaces where no demons or gods ever emerged, or where the warp-denizens are benevolent
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Sep 15, 2018 01:07
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There is really old fluff that says that the Orks exist in the other galaxies, so I’d like to think that somewhere out there Gork and Mork are off Krumpin’ ‘eads beyond the milky way with them
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Sep 15, 2018 01:35
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The demons in the webway were an infinite supply because Magnus ripped open a hole to the warp. It doesn't matter how badass they fought they could never hold it indefinitely. The Emperor needed time to inact the ultimate sanction. My headcanon is emps is so powerful he will default ascend to a warp God if he dies. If that happens humanity is mostly on it's own with no astronomican while emps is sucked into the great game which I believe he couldn't ignore same as the others. He wants to avoid that at all costs. The throne is only slightly better, but he took it. Only when he had no other option though.
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Sep 15, 2018 04:25
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I want the Emperor to become a Warp-god because that means there would be Imperial Daemons.
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Sep 15, 2018 04:32
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