|
The casino planet storyline has one and only one payoff and it's getting the rebel secret decoder ring to the force using slave kid If that is ever developed as more than a throwaway bit it may have been worth it Overall the movie was very enjoyable and the irritating thing is mostly people seeing Star Wars and then being condescending about how very smart they are for not liking it
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:09 |
|
|
There's a character named Ima-Gun Di. He dies in the episode he debuts in.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:09
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:In the Halo series (I think it was), you can use a hyperdrive to blow the poo poo out of things. Yeah, in Halo Reach a level revolves around putting a ship's hyperdrive on the enemy carrier then telling it to jump, cutting the middle third of the carrier out with it. It's treated as a last-ditch effort because as you said it's the most expensive thing in the galaxy and it cripples the frigate that donates the drive to do it, of which there's only one remaining available at that point in the game. The victory is immediately undercut as three more identical carriers jump in which you can't do anything about because you're out of hyperdrives, the fighters you used in the first place are out of fuel, and the frigate blew up, because the point of the game is that you ultimately fail. Halo has fun with hyperspacing. In Halo 2 another ship jumps away last second while in atmosphere and the shockwave blows the gently caress out of the city it's above. The end of Halo 3 has the escape ship Master Chief is on get cut in half because the hyperspace poral thing turns off halfway through. RBA Starblade has a new favorite as of 16:34 on Sep 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:Droids are "people" too in a weird and hosed-up way if you think about it too much, so obviously they wouldn't use ol' C4PE to suicide anyway. Droids are absolutely people in Star Wars. No " " or weird way about it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:29
|
|
|
sassassin posted:Droids are absolutely people in Star Wars. No " " or weird way about it. hopefully now the alt-right and soft boys have been incensed by putting women, minorities and other sjw concepts in Star Wars, the next trilogy can have a robot uprising pointing out that ‘slavery in fact is bad’.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
LeJackal posted:Yes. Even the most fantastic setting has to have its own believable internal logic and rule-set, otherwise it becomes unsustainable. loving kills me how often people don't get this. "Its fantasy its not real!" Okay lets just throw consistency and dramatic tension out the door? No! Samuringa posted:This is the line of thought that gave birth to midchlorians NO IT IS NOT. Goddamnit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:37
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:The Rebels were able to destroy the Empire's largest and most powerful spaceship with literally one of the smallest ships they had doing a kamikaze attack in ROTJ. Didn't even need to go at lightspeed. Why didn't they do that more often? Because Hannibal didn't design a flaw into all the Imperial ships, just the death star???
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:39
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:I don't mean, what did everybody think of it; I mean, do you get the impression that more people in general disliked it than liked it? I think regardless it made tons of money so Disney gonna Disney. I think people are very split. Some people expect nothing more from movies than Transformers, so by comparison there's nothing wrong with last jedi. Its "fun". Movie fulfilled. But if you talk about the finer points of TOS or you're a fan of Hitchcock or something, its highly flawed. But like half the population falls in the former category. Lots of people just don't care for movies to be... smart.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:42
|
|
|
Pilchenstein posted:Isn't it the highest grossing film of the year so far? I think more people enjoyed it than not. Grossing has almost nothing to do with film quality though. How many films have you finished and then asked for a refund? Most people its 0. So we need to realize that movie gross has more to do with marketing and franchise quality than individual film quality. With games and movies, a bad entry in a series usually isn't seen financially until the NEXT entry, where the failure of the last keeps people from trying the next one. (Which ironically may be better) Its pretty bad and accounts for why hollywood peddles so much poo poo these days.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:45
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Because Hannibal didn't design a flaw into all the Imperial ships, just the death star??? It's still pretty weird to ask "why don't they make their pilots ram their ships into the enemy more often", not even the Empire does that and they're the bad guys.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
NoneMoreNegative posted:hopefully now the alt-right and soft boys have been incensed by putting women, minorities and other sjw concepts in Star Wars, the next trilogy can have a robot uprising pointing out that ‘slavery in fact is bad’. You mean like they already did in Solo?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
If you do want to ignore the box office, the movie is also the best selling Bluray of the year and had an A cinemascore.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
Jedit posted:You mean like they already did in Solo? lol I have not seen Solo yet but obvs I should have a job in Hollywood writing this rubbish  I guess as Solo is a prequel the ‘no robot slavery!’ thing didn’t stick.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
Jedit posted:You mean like they already did in Solo? This segues into a little IIMM for me: The character who espouses "hey, slavery is bad, guys you should rise up and overthrow the overlords who exploit you!" is a comedy relief, annoying, secondary hanger on of a character that we as an audience are meant to either dismiss, or at best not take as seriously as the main characters. And the main characters wave away her revolutionary ideals as "ha ha look at that wacky droid with her wacky ideas. ha ha. but seriously, the adults are talking now." They did the same thing with the little kid on Good Times being the one who was a Black Panther, and deep into politics. You can get away with putting "dangerous" ideas, (like slavery is bad, and stop mistreating black people), in your show if and only if they are put in the mouths of characters that the audience can dismiss, belittle, laugh at, or wave away. I can't think of another one offhand, but I know there have been a bunch of these. BrigadierSensible has a new favorite as of 17:06 on Sep 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:If you do want to ignore the box office, the movie is also the best selling Bluray of the year and had an A cinemascore. Those are fair metrics, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:11
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:
Was this one of the Wraith Squadron books? Those were pretty fun, and they didn’t care about killing characters off. I think Wedge was about the only one that had plot armor.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:16
|
|
.
|
synthetik posted:Was this one of the Wraith Squadron books? It was one of the New Jedi Order books. Rebel Stand by Aaron Allston http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_New_Jedi_Order:_Enemy_Lines_II:_Rebel_Stand
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:25
|
|
|
Wait there was a force using child at the end of tlj?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
There as a force using youngling
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
BrigadierSensible posted:This segues into a little IIMM for me: Or in the case of Black Panther, into the mouth of a murderous villain shown as 'too extreme' compared to the literal hereditary king. Also how Harry Potter treats the house-elves and goblins. Ghost Leviathan has a new favorite as of 17:49 on Sep 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:45
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:It's still pretty weird to ask "why don't they make their pilots ram their ships into the enemy more often", not even the Empire does that and they're the bad guys. Well, surely they could programme a fighter's computer and fly it by remote control? Or they could use projectiles instead of lasers? The star destroyer doesn't seem manoeuvrable enough to avoid that and they have targeting computers (and sometimes even the Force!) that could probably ensure it hits its mark.  I don't tend to pick nits, because it's really, really, really not worth it, but the "Why don't they do that every time?" thing with Last Jedi made me think of the same thing with Return of the Jedi and it niggles at me from time to time. Aphrodite posted:If you do want to ignore the box office, the movie is also the best selling Bluray of the year and had an A cinemascore. I don't pay too much attention to the Cinemascore, since I imagine most people have changed their minds since then. As for the Blu-rays, that's obviously because people bought extra copies to destroy in their YouTube videos.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:51
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:There as a force using youngling Where, when
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:53
|
|
|
Calaveron posted:Where, when The end, there's a cut back to the casino planet, the plucky orphan force grabs his broom from the wall.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
It's easy to miss him using the force to grab the broom. I didn't notice it when I went either.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 17:59
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:There as a force using youngling id rather have a case of yuengling than a force using one
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:00
|
|
|
Murphys Law posted:It was one of the New Jedi Order books. Wheat Loaf posted:Well, surely they could programme a fighter's computer and fly it by remote control? Or they could use projectiles instead of lasers? The star destroyer doesn't seem manoeuvrable enough to avoid that and they have targeting computers (and sometimes even the Force!) that could probably ensure it hits its mark.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:03
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Grossing has almost nothing to do with film quality though. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:06
|
|
|
It doesn't help that The Last Jedi goes 'Who cares, lol' to the lingering questions from the last movie (what's with Rey's parents, Snoke's origin and connection to Leia, what the hell's happening to the galaxy at large) while devoting a lot of runtime of the movie to basically filler. For a movie that picks up literally where the last one left off (which is, frankly, a questionable decision. Every main line Star Wars movie has had a time skip of some degree between them, which works just fine and leaves room for merchandisable side stories) it doesn't exactly reward having watched the last one much. Kinda the opposite of how well Rogue One sets up the beginning of A New Hope. (The Rebellion down to a skeleton crew between losses and desertions, the Death Star's looming threat, Vader on the warpath to retrieve the plans in hot pursuit of Leia, and some explanation of the Death Star's weak point) You can see the dominoes fall into place and it's satisfying while giving dramatic context to all the characters dying, that their deaths were not in vain. (except for Krennic, his was totally in vain)
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:07
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Snoke's origin and connection to Leia I know I'm singling this out of a big post, but I have to ask, where in Force Awakens did Snoke's origin get set up as this mystery that the sequel had to resolve? Because I seriously didn't realise it was even meant to be some great mystery. He was just the big creepy-looking dark side guy who led the villain faction; I didn't come away from the first movie thinking his backstory was going to be some big thing. Seriously, I legitimately had no idea people were so invested in it until they started complaining about it after Last Jedi came out. If it had been set up as, again, some dangling mystery, then I'd understand, but I just don't see how it was, and now all of a sudden every jeremiad about Last Jedi (and there are lots of them, because as has been scientifically and categorically established, more people disliked the movie than liked it) seems obliged to go for "SNOKE'S BACKSTORY  " as a big failure of the movie. I just can't see it. Is it something people really cared about?Simply Simon posted:That's absolutely fair, and nobody can just explain away the voice in the back of your head. I personally think that if you start going into this, then you might also start to question why they use such gigantic ships in the first place, because they're just easy targets and the small ones obviously pack enough of a punch with torpedoes and bombs to destroy even heavy ordnance, and so on. So it wraps back around to "because it's cool", and this is how I always make myself stop thinking these things. I read all of those books too when I was a teenager. I think they're why I'm largely inured to Star Wars movies. I'm content to be entertained for a couple of hours because Star Wars novels burned me out on getting too invested in the minutiae of the thing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:It doesn't help that The Last Jedi goes 'Who cares, lol' to the lingering questions from the last movie (what's with Rey's parents, Snoke's origin and connection to Leia, what the hell's happening to the galaxy at large) while devoting a lot of runtime of the movie to basically filler. For a movie that picks up literally where the last one left off (which is, frankly, a questionable decision. Every main line Star Wars movie has had a time skip of some degree between them, which works just fine and leaves room for merchandisable side stories) it doesn't exactly reward having watched the last one much. I don't know why anyone gives a poo poo about Snoke. Nobody cared about the Emperor - he was the Emperor, he was evil, and Vader was his apprentice. That was it! That was all you needed to know. Then Snoke comes along and everyone wants a friggin backstory to this evil dude who is just evil. He's not the point of the films, he's just there to set up Kylo. I'm more annoyed at how, in one movie, they introduce the cool idea of there not being a good/dark side to the force, then immediately discard it. Would've loved to see Rey embrace that idea and become someone elevated above the dual concept.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
Simply Simon posted:Yeah, far later, but the Lusankya (the Super Star Destroyer made into a ram) was the ship of the main antagonist of the X-Wing/Wraith Squadron books, the Squad features in the plot of the New Jedi Order book in question, and Aaron Allston also wrote the Wraith Squadron books. Thank you for looking this up because I wouldn't have known anymore, haha Ok, I know what you're thinking of. The Lusankya was Isard's SSD in the Rogue Squadron series. The Wraith Squadron series antagonist Zinsj had the Iron Fist, and attempted to get the Razor's Kiss/Second Death http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Death
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:15
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:It doesn't help that The Last Jedi goes 'Who cares, lol' to the lingering questions from the last movie (what's with Rey's parents, Snoke's origin and connection to Leia, what the hell's happening to the galaxy at large) while devoting a lot of runtime of the movie to basically filler. For a movie that picks up literally where the last one left off (which is, frankly, a questionable decision. Every main line Star Wars movie has had a time skip of some degree between them, which works just fine and leaves room for merchandisable side stories) it doesn't exactly reward having watched the last one much. Actually that helped a lot. Hereditary exceptionalism is not good, friend.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:16
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:Nobody cared about the Emperor - he was the Emperor, he was evil, and Vader was his apprentice. That was it! That was all you needed to know. One thing the original trilogy never actually shows you is how or even why Vader turned to the dark side. I think that's fine, because it didn't matter. The prequels came out and told that story later, obviously, but you know, I honestly wonder sometimes if fans in 1983 thought it was a failure of the movies not to explain it. They didn't know there would be more movies in 15 years.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:18
|
|
|
I think Snoke was a bit of a head scratcher because at the time it was supposed to be 2 sith, and in return we lost both of em. The new guy (complete with what looks like a lightsaber scar) being a dark side master was kinda shocking. That leaves people just wondering what the gently caress. Kinda like how Boba Fett was a helmeted dude who was a bounty hunter who apparently likes to disintegrate people led to people wondering who the mysterious guy was and what was his backstory.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:Or in the case of Black Panther, into the mouth of a murderous villain shown as 'too extreme' compared to the literal hereditary king. Dude, every single good guy in Black Panther ended up agreeing with the villain's reasonings and motivations. They did not agree with his methods and end goal. Removing oppressors through genocidal tactics, so that YOU can become the oppressor, is not good and is actual very extremely terrible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:34
|
|
|
Murphys Law posted:Ok, I know what you're thinking of. The Lusankya was Isard's SSD in the Rogue Squadron series. (and Isard returned in a late book iirc, complicating the issue further) Morpheus posted:I don't know why anyone gives a poo poo about Snoke. Of course, the EU then goes "aha, not so simple!" and chronicles another 15-20 years of mopping up the remnants of the Empire which did not instantly crumble to dust just because their leader died. But for the movie, things were neatly wrapped up because Emperor = Empire = bad guy. It's like everyone wants to go back in time to assassinate Hitler, as if that had actually caused Germany to instantly be denazified. In TFA, though, the big government is actually the good guys, and the New Order are the "plucky rebels". Snoke is more someone like Osama bin Laden, leading an insurgency of what amounts to terrorists from some far-off corner of the world. That's not an archetypal role (yet?), and he obviously is NOT all the New Order is about - it is far more exemplified by the Hux/Kylo dynamic, young regressive idiots tempted by "the simple answers" going against The System, Man. It's fascist in nature, but they haven't won yet. So it's more like Hitler ca. 1923, trying to (irl vainly, at that point) overthrow the legitimate Republic. That's a more complex character, he's not pure evil already-committed-the-Holocaust yet. So asking yourself "who IS this dude, how did he get where he is? Did he FOUND the New Order, or is he just their spiritual leader?" is imho quite legitimate. TLJ immediately establishing the New Order as already having won - somehow* - and setting Snoke up, during the movie, as Basically The Emperor completely invalidates everything that TFA set up about the New Order and what he could be. If you want to talk about subverting expectations, TFA already did that by flipping the initial power dynamic. TLJ re-flipping it and going "your expectations of this being anything BUT plucky rebels against fascist empire were wrong!!!" is just...weird, imho. *as I said in my initial post in this derail debacle, imho you can explain anything in Star Wars because it's magic, and you also never should go the Midichlorian route of overexplaining, but just "leaving it up to imagination" seems ill-advised when it makes the viewer - me in this case - wonder the first ten minutes "wait, why are the Republic dudes suddenly losing?". The very first sentence of the text crawl is "The New Order reigns", and we've never been shown how and why before. After those ten minutes I went "okay I guess that's just how it is then...", but oh boy was that a rough start for me and it didn't really get better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:34
|
|
|
Schubalts posted:Dude, every single good guy in Black Panther ended up agreeing with the villain's reasonings and motivations. They did not agree with his methods and end goal. Removing oppressors through genocidal tactics, so that YOU can become the oppressor, is not good and is actual very extremely terrible. I liked the hot take that showing Erik as a kid with his dad in their apartment was portraying him as childish. That was the most empathizing moment of the movie for him, just lol if you didn't get teary eyed and stuff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:41
|
|
|
Pilchenstein posted:Neither does adherence (or lack thereof) to established lore, to be fair. Of absolutely, I wouldn't say that it did. You can break from convention or history all you like, as long as the new thing is good enough to argue it. For me The Last Jedi breaks from tradition, but then... just gives us this kinda patchwork shambles in return. That's the problem. I'm not actually upset at ships in star wars needing fuel, even though we've never heard it before, for instance. My problem is that the fuel limits are extremely nebulous to the point of never mattering before until the critical moment and then never again seemingly. That's bad writing. If you're going to go that route, have fuel be an issue in the beginning of the movie or something, so that we have a setup and then later a payoff.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:It doesn't help that The Last Jedi goes 'Who cares, lol' to the lingering questions from the last movie (what's with Rey's parents, Snoke's origin and connection to Leia, what the hell's happening to the galaxy at large) while devoting a lot of runtime of the movie to basically filler. For a movie that picks up literally where the last one left off (which is, frankly, a questionable decision. Every main line Star Wars movie has had a time skip of some degree between them, which works just fine and leaves room for merchandisable side stories) it doesn't exactly reward having watched the last one much. I agree, although to be fair Rogue One does end basically exactly where A New Hope starts, with basically zero time skip. Overall though I feel like Rogue One was like "yeah lets do a mature WW2 style story in space" and it builds perfectly on the theme of IV-V-VI, where Force Awakens and Last Jedi are like "hey lets make hollywood blockbusters featuring those jedi guys, kids seem to like them". I'd almost like to fork the franchise; have adult star wars and kid star wars as two separate series of movies. But then I don't know how you do that without something like, having all the 'adult' films be set during the original trilogy, which I wouldn't want. Need to be free to do new things. (And when I say 'adult' I don't mean rated R, I mean like the original series which were war movies but appealed to kids massively. Compared to the style of the prequels and last jedi which seem to be kids-first and ehhh adults will see it because... they grew up liking the original trilogy or something)
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:09 |
|
|
Morpheus posted:Also because it would entirely break space battles and plots. This how Goonswarm, the Eve Online guild came to prominence. Instead of buying a few expensive warships , they just put tons of recruits into modified mining vessels they patched a guns onto, them once they ran out of ammo they’re just ram their Dodge Neon into someone else’s Porsche.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 18:50
|
|