Corp Megathread: A box covered with the dust of years, labeled "EMPLOYEE SUGGESTIONS"

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Sundae: Dec 1, 2005

On the topic of citizenship and passport issues lately, our immigration lawyers are trying to sort out visas for my top young scientist we're trying to retain. It took four months to get her H1B paperwork processed, they've received a letter saying it'll be another 5 months to grant it to the temp agency we found her through since they're the original sponsor, and that it will take "NO LESS THAN NINE MONTHS" to transfer the sponsorship to us, even though the girl already works for us. Customs and Immigration is seriously, seriously dragging their feet on anyone who fails the paper bag test right now. This entire process took 3-4 months last time I hired someone through it, which was coincidentally under the previous administration.

18 months minimum to get a H1B processed and transferred to a new sponsor, and we're a $60B p/yr scale company. I can't even imagine the hell people without bottomless pocketbooks and their own legal departments/bribed senators are going through these days.

Edit: Actually, the LAST time I tried to hire someone through it, they already worked for us, had a full-time offer + sponsorship willingness, had worked with us under a student experience work visa for two years, went to both grad and undergrad in the USA, and had no criminal record at all. Their visa application didn't even make it through the lottery process, and she's now back in Malaysia. Current administration.

Sundae fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Sep 13, 2018

# ? Sep 13, 2018 20:43

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:33

DarthRoblox: Nov 25, 2007; *rolls ankle* *gains 15lbs* *apologizes to TFLC* *rolls ankle*...

I've definitely noticed it's suddenly become much, much harder to hire anyone on a visa. These are for analytics/data science roles (which are very competitive and hard to hire for right now) and the people we're trying to hire have great qualifications, but it's suddenly give from a smooth(ish) process to multiple rounds of back and forth and huge amounts of justification required.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 21:28

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

My former intern is applying for a green card, and I've had a back and forth with the paralegal handling her case to make sure a technicality on the letter I'm writing saying that she worked here won't get her rejected.

If you aren't familiar, look up "literacy tests" and how they were used to disenfranchise people, in living memory. Then look at how we're talking about taking away citizenship for people who've lived their entire lives here and even served in the military.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 22:32

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

America has changed since I was young and got a green card in 2 years.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 01:24

22 Eargesplitten: Oct 10, 2010

Even before Trump, it took a friend of mine about a year and a half to get a green card for her husband. She�d been with him for four years and they had been married for at least one by the time it started. I�m sure it had nothing to do with him being Nicaraguan.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 02:47

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

My cousin has been married to an Australian dude for like 5 years and they're still. Jumping through hoops for his citizenship. They may just head down under

# ? Sep 14, 2018 02:49

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Volmarias posted:

My former intern is applying for a green card, and I've had a back and forth with the paralegal handling her case to make sure a technicality on the letter I'm writing saying that she worked here won't get her rejected.

If you aren't familiar, look up "literacy tests" and how they were used to disenfranchise people, in living memory. Then look at how we're talking about taking away citizenship for people who've lived their entire lives here and even served in the military.

We also had people in the Middle East who served in our military for a promise of citizenship (and still lived locally so they had to worry about their whole family being killed) and then they just hosed them over and denied their citizenship.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 14:47

Ashcans: Jan 2, 2006; Let's do the space-time warp again!

Sundae posted:

On the topic of citizenship and passport issues lately, our immigration lawyers are trying to sort out visas for my top young scientist we're trying to retain. It took four months to get her H1B paperwork processed, they've received a letter saying it'll be another 5 months to grant it to the temp agency we found her through since they're the original sponsor, and that it will take "NO LESS THAN NINE MONTHS" to transfer the sponsorship to us, even though the girl already works for us. Customs and Immigration is seriously, seriously dragging their feet on anyone who fails the paper bag test right now. This entire process took 3-4 months last time I hired someone through it, which was coincidentally under the previous administration.

18 months minimum to get a H1B processed and transferred to a new sponsor, and we're a $60B p/yr scale company. I can't even imagine the hell people without bottomless pocketbooks and their own legal departments/bribed senators are going through these days.

Edit: Actually, the LAST time I tried to hire someone through it, they already worked for us, had a full-time offer + sponsorship willingness, had worked with us under a student experience work visa for two years, went to both grad and undergrad in the USA, and had no criminal record at all. Their visa application didn't even make it through the lottery process, and she's now back in Malaysia. Current administration.

Heads up, the reason for this is partly that USCIS has a Premium Processing service where you pay for faster processing (literally, you just pay an extra $1200 to the government and they'll give you a response in 2 weeks instead of months). Except that they have suspended it for anyone applying for a new H-1B or changing employers, which means that those people now have to eat months of processing time instead. For many people that makes changing employers basically impossible, because they have to either find a company that is willing to wait months to hire then while it's processing, of they have to be ready to switch employers before the approval (this is allowed) and hope that there aren't issues with the case - because if you switch employers and your case is ultimately denied, your start is retroactively disallowed and you are now out of status and have to leave. Unsurprisingly, most people were paying for Premium processing so they could actually get an approval and start with some assurance. Not anymore! It's been suspended until February, and it's just a guess it will come back them; for new H-1Bs - like your candidate - it's already been suspended since April and was supposed to be restored this month.

USCIS also issued two changes in processing rules over the summer. The first is that they no longer have to issue you a request for evidence before denying a case -they used to have to notify you of any issue and give you a chance to respond and address it, and if you failed to do so they'd issue the denial. The administration decided that was too onerous, so now they can decide to just skip that step and issue a denial immediately, even if its a relatively minor error or omission. If that happens, you can try to file an appeal, but good luck because the processing time on an appeal is literally years.

The second change was that if your application is denied and it leaves you without status (like, say, you decided to change employers before your approval, as above) then USCIS will immediately refer you for removal/deportation. Previously if you ended up in that situation, USCIS would assume that you would do the right thing and either try to clear up your status or leave the US (which is fairly reasonable, because most professional people aren't keen on going underground). Now they will issue you a Notice To Appear for a removal hearing and put you straight into the grinder.

USCIS RFE/Denial rates were up 50% at the end of last year, before they started slamming down this new stuff over the summer. I have had RFEs (requests for evidence) where USCIS doesn't accept a position as being a 'specialty occupation' and wants additional evidence that it really requires a Bachelors or higher in a specific field. That wasn't unusual for positions where you see a lot of people coming in with raw experience or flexibility over education (programmers, for instance, or famously sales positions). Occupations I've had to respond to that for this year? Biostatisticians, Biochemists, Mechanical Engineers. We received one for a Software Developer (not programmer, developer) because the DOL guidelines say that you can get that role with a degree in 'Computer Science or Software Engineering', and USCIS decided that because there was more than one acceptable degree, it wasn't a specialized field. :downs:

One of the hospitals we work with had an RFE for a doctor not being a specialty occupation. I don't even know what you are supposed to say to that.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 15:13

therobit: Aug 19, 2008; I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

Ashcans posted:

Heads up, the reason for this is partly that USCIS has a Premium Processing service where you pay for faster processing (literally, you just pay an extra $1200 to the government and they'll give you a response in 2 weeks instead of months). Except that they have suspended it for anyone applying for a new H-1B or changing employers, which means that those people now have to eat months of processing time instead. For many people that makes changing employers basically impossible, because they have to either find a company that is willing to wait months to hire then while it's processing, of they have to be ready to switch employers before the approval (this is allowed) and hope that there aren't issues with the case - because if you switch employers and your case is ultimately denied, your start is retroactively disallowed and you are now out of status and have to leave. Unsurprisingly, most people were paying for Premium processing so they could actually get an approval and start with some assurance. Not anymore! It's been suspended until February, and it's just a guess it will come back them; for new H-1Bs - like your candidate - it's already been suspended since April and was supposed to be restored this month.

USCIS also issued two changes in processing rules over the summer. The first is that they no longer have to issue you a request for evidence before denying a case -they used to have to notify you of any issue and give you a chance to respond and address it, and if you failed to do so they'd issue the denial. The administration decided that was too onerous, so now they can decide to just skip that step and issue a denial immediately, even if its a relatively minor error or omission. If that happens, you can try to file an appeal, but good luck because the processing time on an appeal is literally years.

The second change was that if your application is denied and it leaves you without status (like, say, you decided to change employers before your approval, as above) then USCIS will immediately refer you for removal/deportation. Previously if you ended up in that situation, USCIS would assume that you would do the right thing and either try to clear up your status or leave the US (which is fairly reasonable, because most professional people aren't keen on going underground). Now they will issue you a Notice To Appear for a removal hearing and put you straight into the grinder.

USCIS RFE/Denial rates were up 50% at the end of last year, before they started slamming down this new stuff over the summer. I have had RFEs (requests for evidence) where USCIS doesn't accept a position as being a 'specialty occupation' and wants additional evidence that it really requires a Bachelors or higher in a specific field. That wasn't unusual for positions where you see a lot of people coming in with raw experience or flexibility over education (programmers, for instance, or famously sales positions). Occupations I've had to respond to that for this year? Biostatisticians, Biochemists, Mechanical Engineers. We received one for a Software Developer (not programmer, developer) because the DOL guidelines say that you can get that role with a degree in 'Computer Science or Software Engineering', and USCIS decided that because there was more than one acceptable degree, it wasn't a specialized field.

One of the hospitals we work with had an RFE for a doctor not being a specialty occupation. I don't even know what you are supposed to say to that.

Is there a good source that you can point me to on all this? Those are some sweeping changes and I have family members with immigration issues...

Edit: not challenging you, just want to know more.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 15:30

Ashcans: Jan 2, 2006; Let's do the space-time warp again!

I keep meaning to put together a big post about all the recent changes for the immigration thread and not doing it because it makes me depressed.

Here is the announcement about Premium Processing

This is about the new NTA policy for when someone has a petition denied or revoked

This is a discussion of a policy implemented last year I didn't mention - Previously, it was USCIS policy to defer to a prior decision when handling a case. This meant that if USCIS had previously approved a position as a specialty occupation, for example, or had agreed that someone's foreign education was sufficient for a role, when you filed an extension for that position USCIS would adhere to whatever previous decision it had made. The new memo changes this - every petition is now considered completely fresh. This means that you can be approved to work for a specific position with your education, and then when you file a simple extension three years later, USCIS may determine that your education isn't adequate or the position doesn't qualify. It means that even staying in an approved position isn't safe moving forward, and we've seen people who have been with the same company for 8, 10 years suddenly having their education rejected or the position denied.

Here are two different discussions of the rise in RFE rates for worker petitions - USCIS has gotten to where they are issuing RFEs on as much as 70% of petitions - and starting this month, they're no long bound to issue RFEs before denials, so we may see a certain number of these RFEs just move straight toward denials.

My focus is business/work based immigration, so a lot of this is specific challenges to H-1Bs, Ls, and Os. There's more stuff going on, including the overall slowdown in processing and the fact that there are steps toward targeting naturalized citizens that could get ugly.

Part of the essential takeaway should be that DHS has a lot of latitude in how they handle these things, even without any changes in laws or regulations. Probably only 5% of my job is actually any issue of law, the vast majority is navigating the regulations, guidelines, memos, and framework that gets built for implementation. USCIS could effectively grind green card processing to a halt, for example, without requiring any change to the laws by congress.

There is an immigration thread, but its not super active.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 16:14

Ashcans: Jan 2, 2006; Let's do the space-time warp again!

Also, because it's this thread, I want to acknowledge that the H-1B program has had more than its share of abuses and has been/is used in some sketchy ways by contractor companies and worker mills; I get really frustrated by that too because almost all our clients are relatively small companies who just want to hire a few specific talents they've identified, and now we have to jump through tons of hoops while those mills can just shotgun their way through on volume. It definitely needed some work to try and make it function better. But none of these steps are in the right direction - they make the workers less able to change their employer, more beholden to their original petitioner, and reduces the incentive to have long-term hires over churning applicants. It also makes it much much harder for people to petition for a single worker, because low-volume companies won't be at all prepared for the amount of BS they have to cope with, while mills are much more prepared to rapidly fine-tune their process to get the turnover they need.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 16:22

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

It wasn't that long ago that a professor could go to my manager and say "Oh yeah, I told this guy in India he's got the job. He's bought his plane ticket. Work out the paperwork with him." And it was a huge pain in the rear end, but still doable.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 16:54

John Smith: Feb 26, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Halloween Jack posted:

We also had people in the Middle East who served in our military for a promise of citizenship (and still lived locally so they had to worry about their whole family being killed) and then they just hosed them over and denied their citizenship.

Sounds like a liar story to me... I read this in the NYT before. Think the truth would be that they served with the US military, and not in the US military. Big difference.

My apologies in advance if I was the ignorant one and am genuinely in error on this.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 17:28

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Alex Horton in the Washington Post posted:

Frustrated by delayed promises of citizenship from the U.S. military, and in fear of the Islamic State if he were deported back to Iraq, Ranj Rafeeq has given up the American Dream for a Canadian one.

Rafeeq was eager as a teenager to translate for U.S. troops stationed in his home town of Kirkuk in 2005. He immigrated to Portland, Ore., to study seven years later, hoping to don an Army uniform after earning his graduate degree in civil engineering.

He signed an enlistment contract in January 2016, with a training date set in September.

�I loved American soldiers. It was my dream to be a part of them,� Rafeeq, now 29, told The Washington Post.

[The Pentagon promised citizenship to immigrants who served. Now it might help deport them.]

But Rafeeq�s plans to serve imploded as the Pentagon�s program, designed to leverage medical and language skills of immigrants in exchange for fast-tracked citizenship, was log-jammed with additional security measures for recruits last fall, stressing an already overburdened screening process.

The program was put on hold in September 2016 � just as he was scheduled to report for training � sparking fear in Rafeeq and across the recruit population that their path to citizenship would abruptly end.

Then he received a letter from Kurdish officials warning of sweeps targeting Kurds for deportation and watched as news reports of the program�s struggles mounted.

Rafeeq�s student visa was set to expire on Aug. 1. He faced a decision: wait for the Pentagon�s bureaucracy to untangle itself as the Trump administration seeks to expand deportation powers, or flee.

He chose to flee. On June 11, Rafeeq went to Vancouver to apply for asylum in Canada. His biggest fear with deportation is the chance that Islamic State militants would prize his capture if they uncovered his attempt to enlist.

�I can�t go back to Kirkuk,� he said. �They would kill me.�

As usual, Smith, you're welcome to go gently caress yourself.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 17:38

Volmarias: Dec 31, 2002; EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

John Smith posted:

Sounds like a liar story to me... I read this in the NYT before. Think the truth would be that they served with the US military, and not in the US military. Big difference.

My apologies in advance if I was the ignorant one and am genuinely in error on this.

It's true that these people served with the military rather than in it. We promised them citizenship and a path out of the country, where working with foreign invaders is frowned upon on the order of a 7.76mm reward.

We reneged on that promise for many of those people. You can guess the results.

Take a big guess how many people are going to volunteer to work with the US military in the next country we end up invading.

Stop watching fake news.

E: this is what happens when I unmute John Smith.

Volmarias fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 14, 2018

# ? Sep 14, 2018 17:41

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