Dwarf Fortress: The child punches the cave spider in the thorax, bruising the brain!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dwarf Fortress: The child punches the cave spider in the thorax, bruising the brain!

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feelix: Nov 27, 2016; THE ONLY EXERCISE I AM UNFAMILIAR WITH IS EXERCISING MY ABILITY TO MAKE A POST PEOPLE WANT TO READ

Is the latest version still unplayable without careful management of body parts and corpses?

# ? Sep 15, 2018 21:10

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 08:04

GorfZaplen: Jan 20, 2012

Dwarves are hyper industrious as a rule so a single dwarf master craftsman being able to provide for hundreds in a short amount of time makes complete sense in the framework of fantasy the game is based on

# ? Sep 15, 2018 23:02

GorfZaplen: Jan 20, 2012

Even the way they learn to improve without any teaching makes sense in this way, although I agree that more student/teacher mechanics would be good, especially with the way relationships are expanding in the latest version

# ? Sep 15, 2018 23:04

Shady Amish Terror: Oct 11, 2007; I'm not Amish by choice. 8(

While I would love the Fun potential of Full Dwarven Economics complete with proletariat revolutions against the bourgeoisie, it is...definitely one of those options you should be able to configure in the init.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 02:58

Siljmonster: Dec 16, 2005; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Dwarves are communist it's okay

# ? Sep 16, 2018 07:44

Pakled: Aug 6, 2011; WE ARE SMART

Class consciousness as a weighted parameter in worldgen

# ? Sep 16, 2018 08:06

Nosfereefer: Jun 15, 2011; IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM

Siljmonster posted:

Dwarves are communist it's okay

dwarves have a nobility, they basically don't trade with the outside world (seriously, you brought one unit of tin), and are basically bunkering down constantly

dwarves are hoxhaist

# ? Sep 16, 2018 09:57

How Disgusting: Feb 21, 2018

feelix posted:

Is the latest version still unplayable without careful management of body parts and corpses?

It's playable. You basically dfhack the stress every time you notice a dwarf acting funny. There is also a matter of channeling a bunch of vents over the butcher shop, trash compactor, and corpse/refuse stockpiles and separating them from the rest of the fort with walls and doors. You can also add a 1x1 bridge on top of each vent if worried about flying enemies pathing into the fort.

A second approach is to do all slaughter and garbage disposal outside, a third is to counterattack the invaders while they're near the map edge and forbid everything as soon as the battle is over.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 15:54

a7m2: Jul 9, 2012

feelix posted:

Is the latest version still unplayable without careful management of body parts and corpses?

i picked it up after years of not playing and i'm having no trouble with corpse management? you just need to bury your dead or make memorial slabs. or is that not what you mean?

# ? Sep 16, 2018 15:59

Shady Amish Terror: Oct 11, 2007; I'm not Amish by choice. 8(

Nosfereefer posted:

dwarves have a nobility, they basically don't trade with the outside world (seriously, you brought one unit of tin), and are basically bunkering down constantly

dwarves are hoxhaist

I am not as clever or learned a man as I might like, so I had to look that one up. If I've got this right...Hoxhaists oppose reinterpretation of socialist/communist doctrine, but they also defend the right of each nation to self-determine how it will follow them, except for the forms they don't like, and they hate the imperialist, militaristic, overbearing world power the USSR became, but love Stalin and Stalinism and believe the USSR inflicting its will on surrounding nations is a betrayal of those beliefs...somehow. :psydwarf:

And the formation of the ideology was entangled with a period of history where Albania had a falling-out with Mao and built a lot of bunkers.

You know, I think you may be on to something here. Hoxhaism is DEFINITELY an esoteric enough political ideology for DF.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 16:06

hailthefish: Oct 24, 2010

a7m2 posted:

i picked it up after years of not playing and i'm having no trouble with corpse management? you just need to bury your dead or make memorial slabs. or is that not what you mean?

Seeing corpses/corpse parts/deaths causes a negative thought, that never goes away, and every time a dwarf remembers the negative memory, they get another stacking negative thought, which iirc can itself also be remembered. So eventually every single dwarf who has interactions with death will go mad from infinitely stacking negative thoughts.

Meanwhile the positive benefits of fantastic dining rooms and such don't have the same effect.

So yeah, if you play as normal you have to dfhack everyone's stress away every so often.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 17:20

Valtonen: May 13, 2014; Tanks still suck but you don't gotta hand it to the Axis either.

hailthefish posted:

Seeing corpses/corpse parts/deaths causes a negative thought, that never goes away, and every time a dwarf remembers the negative memory, they get another stacking negative thought, which iirc can itself also be remembered. So eventually every single dwarf who has interactions with death will go mad from infinitely stacking negative thoughts.

Meanwhile the positive benefits of fantastic dining rooms and such don't have the same effect.

So yeah, if you play as normal you have to dfhack everyone's stress away every so often.

Or use methods of defense that leave limited amounts of dead bodies (lava, drawbridge smashers) on very controlled locations. Being able to lavaflush any battle remains is a viable solution but pretty much requires a volcano. The problem doesnt really manifest before the bigger sieges with dozens of invaders that leave literal heaps of corpses even if you win the battle without casualties of your own.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 18:41

a7m2: Jul 9, 2012

Wow that really sucks and is really dumb. How do you go about clearing those? I'm surprised nobody tried to make a hack that automatically clears them after some time.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 18:49

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

feelix posted:

Moridin posts in this thread right?

My fortresses are worker co-op collectives.

Siljmonster posted:

Dwarves are communist it's okay

a7m2 posted:

Wow that really sucks and is really dumb. How do you go about clearing those? I'm surprised nobody tried to make a hack that automatically clears them after some time.

It's pretty easy with dfhack - just mass autodump delete them all.

I dunno if this is still true but afaik smashing items with a bridge doesn't help that much because for some reason the item ID still sticks around when you do it that way. Lava is better but then there's fps hit from the liquid moving which defeats the point a bit.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Sep 16, 2018

# ? Sep 16, 2018 20:30

How Disgusting: Feb 21, 2018

hailthefish posted:

Seeing corpses/corpse parts/deaths causes a negative thought, that never goes away, and every time a dwarf remembers the negative memory, they get another stacking negative thought, which iirc can itself also be remembered. So eventually every single dwarf who has interactions with death will go mad from infinitely stacking negative thoughts.

Meanwhile the positive benefits of fantastic dining rooms and such don't have the same effect.

So yeah, if you play as normal you have to dfhack everyone's stress away every so often.

Works for ghosts, too. So two triggers can come from the same murder.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 21:23

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Lmao if you dont have a core squad of ptsd soliders that deal with all the figthing and dying part while the rest of your dwarves slave away underground never seeing the light of day or the corpses of your enemies.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 03:58

Valtonen: May 13, 2014; Tanks still suck but you don't gotta hand it to the Axis either.

Telsa Cola posted:

Lmao if you dont have a core squad of ptsd soliders that deal with all the figthing and dying part while the rest of your dwarves slave away underground never seeing the light of day or the corpses of your enemies.

The problem is new immigrants having to climb mt.cadaver to reach front gate and hence coming in already half-insane. And of course the 1400 Misc. Clothing and weapon items rotting away your FPS in the cadaver pile.

Valtonen fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Sep 17, 2018

# ? Sep 17, 2018 04:03

ILL Machina: Mar 25, 2004; Glory to Italia!

Ayy!! This text is-a the color of marinara! Ohhhh!! Dat's amore!!

And the rare case where an accident happens and someone falls and loses all their teeth or something.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 04:33

a7m2: Jul 9, 2012

Moridin920 posted:

My fortresses are worker co-op collectives.

It's pretty easy with dfhack - just mass autodump delete them all.

I dunno if this is still true but afaik smashing items with a bridge doesn't help that much because for some reason the item ID still sticks around when you do it that way. Lava is better but then there's fps hit from the liquid moving which defeats the point a bit.

What about clearing the negative thoughts? I don't like just deleting the cadavers. Dwarfs should be dealing with them and having negative thoughts about them, just not permanently.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 06:08

Hihohe: Oct 4, 2008; Fuck you and the sun you live under

If theyr gonna have cyclical negative thoughts like this they should at least come to terms with the memory. Like yeah I saw an bodyless arm but that was a couple of months ago, im over it now, this purring maggots thing is what im directing my negative feelings towards now.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 06:23

Clocks: Oct 2, 2007

Maybe Toady could have a literal therapist profession that would turn bad thoughts/memories into something neutral. And you could have the psychopaths who have fond memories of seeing slaughtered kittens.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 06:58

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

*having bad thoughts about having to milk purring maggots
*having good thoughts from eating amazing purring maggot cheese,

# ? Sep 17, 2018 07:12

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

Clocks posted:

Maybe Toady could have a literal therapist profession that would turn bad thoughts/memories into something neutral. And you could have the psychopaths who have fond memories of seeing slaughtered kittens.

Urist McSad strikes pillow with his left hand breaking apart the down.
Urist McSad enjoyed a fine therapy session recently.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 07:28

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

09/16/2018 :frogon:

quote:

Relationships are quite a bit more fluid now, and I managed to scrunch the data down so that the historical figure legends display shows all of their various dalliances, which was a concern for a bit, as there is a lot of activity. I also made every battle a historical figure participates in, even as a regular soldier, part of the figure's chronology now, which helps reconstruct narratives such as the one to follow.

In a smaller island I ran for 150 years, I picked out the first human I found with a second marriage to start digging. This was Zicab, a ranger in her youth who quickly decided to pursue a life of poetry. Her first relationship, with a fishery worker named Innah, lasted for three years. They didn't get married, but Zicab had a daughter, Nulce, before they broke it off. Right after the breakup, Zicab became involved with Innah's childhood friend, Rabin the monster slayer, and after four years they got married.

During the marriage, Zicab began a poetry apprenticeship under Kifino the elf, a member of the Maligned Whispers, a performance troupe which operated out of goblin territory. This didn't stop Zicab, and she moved off to the pits to study, leaving Rabin back in town. They'd periodically see each other at the big annual foot race for the Celebration of Purifying (everybody in this story seems to compete in the foot race and spear throwing competition), but it wasn't meant to last - Rabin was killed by Shedim Murkyurns the hag of twilight, a constant menace, often attacking the children of the city (Zicab and Innah included), leaving Zicab a widow. The next year, Zicab met the high priest Rozmo of the Pungent Coven, worshipper of Pastro, goddess of misery and torture, and they were married before long. After producing three notable poems, Zicab was murdered by a goblin armorer in the pits (who was later devoured by a giant lion, so that has a happy ending.)

Zicab's daughter Nulce also had a rough time of it. After the apparent rite of passage of being attacked by Shedim as a toddler, Nulce joined the Pungent Coven and became a farmer. The elves were often attacking these communities, and Nulce proved herself in the Clash of Growling, becoming the General of the human civilization, the Union of Creatures, a few years later. The elves attacked again, lead by the immortal tactician and notorious tamer of giant mosquitos Princess Salo Larkfires, and during the defense of the outlying town of Goodbinds, Nulce was struck down by an elven elephant, and later put to rest in the Tomb of Shields.

Before the tumult, Nulce had been involved with a poet and local lord named Uthal, and together they had two sons, Urwa and Kammat, and a daughter Artuk. Uthal died alongside Nulce in the defense of Goodbinds, but the children survived, the oldest seven years old at the time, safe for the time at the Pungent Coven's town of Snugglemerged. (and, yes, Shedim tried to kill both Urwa and Kammat as children.) Urwa became a bandit after being played by a goblin spy, and Kammat also took up a life of crime, but Artuk became a farmer and Pungent Coven member like her mother, and also fought in the elf wars, where she formed a close friendship with a woman Athrab, who would later marry her widower step-father Rozmo the priest. Artuk soon gave up on fighting, and became a poet like her father and grandmother, moving again to the goblin pits, where apparently all poetry in this world is written.

Artuk's life of poetry went on for a decade, which saw the writing of 'The Sun Sets on Devourers' and her superstitous worship of a rampaging swamp titan. Then Salo Larkfires and the elves came again, in 105, this time attacking the goblin cities with giant great horned owls and badger people. As a performer, Artuk didn't participate in the defense, but she ended up being pressed into elven service for the next attack, fighting in several assaults on goblin pits, even striking up a war buddy relationship with an elf, Ditari (notable for multiple simultaneous lovers and affairs, which isn't all that common right now.) Under elven rule in the pits, the threat of being murdered like her grandmother passed, and Artuk died of old age around the end of world gen in 144. She left behind her long-time lover Ip and their four surviving children (the two youngest being swamp titan worshippers with elven childhood friends), as well as an elven apprentice of her own.

As for the child-hunting hag Shedim, after turning the tables on seven monster slayers, she finally met her match in the slayer elf Nemile Shellsfair, a veteran of every battle of the elf wars, who was only outdone herself when she challenged the bronze colossus (joining 209 other notables, and two cities.) The elf warleader Salo Larkfires, born a few years after the world was created, is still alive. She never had a romantic relationship, but had three close childhood friends: Yonali Cobrasalve, slayer, killed by a giantess in 43, Ameli Glenpicks, veteran and tavern keeper (survived), and Yawo, who died as a teenager fighting in the Attack of Claws in 17, where Salo's predecessor Cimathi Wasprifts was also shot and killed, paving the way for Salo's rise and her eventual conquest of the known world over the following century.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 09:17

How Disgusting: Feb 21, 2018

Both Toady and the bug brigade admitted that stress and morale are hard to test, since the conditions are never going to be the same two times in a row and results only show up after years of play.

Even when you make a bunch of people report their findings the reports will often be biased. You can try (or at least attempt) to be as accurate as a police profiler, but your report is still going to be in between someone who cried wolf and someone who claims everything is Fine(tm) after 12 years of play. Since it's so reliant on testimonies rather than data it's deceptively easy to not see the forest from the trees.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 09:21

packetmantis: Feb 26, 2013

Dwarves get a negative thought from milking purring maggots? I've literally never even seen any of those things, much less milked them, so those must be some bougie-rear end dwarves to get upset about it.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 09:37

Ratoslov: Feb 15, 2012; Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

How Disgusting posted:

Both Toady and the bug brigade admitted that stress and morale are hard to test, since the conditions are never going to be the same two times in a row and results only show up after years of play.

That says to me it's time to make some tools like a map editor and scenario editor so you can force the conditions to be the same twice in a row.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 09:42

scamtank: Feb 24, 2011; my desire to just be a FUCKING IDIOT all day long is rapidly overtaking my ability to FUNCTION

i suspect that means i'm MENTALLY ILL

packetmantis posted:

Dwarves get a negative thought from milking purring maggots? I've literally never even seen any of those things, much less milked them, so those must be some bougie-rear end dwarves to get upset about it.

Nah, they're just gross vermin with the "can give people the willies" flag

# ? Sep 17, 2018 10:54

How Disgusting: Feb 21, 2018

Ratoslov posted:

That says to me it's time to make some tools like a map editor and scenario editor so you can force the conditions to be the same twice in a row.

You'd have to get 5-10 people playing the same save in parallel, and make them upload their saves after say 4 years and fill out a survey. Eg it's not something that's easy to organize on a volunteer basis.

You'd still get inaccuracy cause people are people. It's like hunting for a ufo, ten people are going to see ten different things. Then, after they get a chance to socialize and exchange information, they're suddenly and retroactively going to see the same thing. And some will always willingly or unwillingly misinterpret things in order to get the desired result.

How Disgusting fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Sep 17, 2018

# ? Sep 17, 2018 11:16

Valtonen: May 13, 2014; Tanks still suck but you don't gotta hand it to the Axis either.

Re on the teaching skill: id love to be able to appoint apprentices for craftdwarwes that learn watching a master work. That way thered be less material waste But a backup craftsdorf when the old master suddenly gets drunk, Angry, hits someone and gets instagibbed by A kick to the face from Justice Guard

# ? Sep 17, 2018 12:39

Elman: Oct 26, 2009

Say I wanted to learn this game now, what should I get? I assume the Lazy Newb Pack is still good, but are there any good tilesets or better UI mods I should install?

Last time I tried to figure things out the game was still pretty awkward even with a tileset. Having ways to make the game more visual like ToME or Crawl would be very welcome.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 15:04

Eric the Mauve: May 8, 2012; Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Toady One posted:

Right after the breakup, Zicab became involved with Innah's childhood friend, Rabin the monster slayer, and after four years they got married.

After the breakup. Suuuure. :rolleyes:

# ? Sep 17, 2018 15:51

How Disgusting: Feb 21, 2018

Elman posted:

Say I wanted to learn this game now, what should I get? I assume the Lazy Newb Pack is still good, but are there any good tilesets or better UI mods I should install?

Last time I tried to figure things out the game was still pretty awkward even with a tileset. Having ways to make the game more visual like ToME or Crawl would be very welcome.

There is a complete walkthrough here: https://df-walkthrough.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html

It uses an old version of DF with a pre-installed tileset. Given how newer versions have buggy morale it's not a problem and might be a solution.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 18:29

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

a7m2 posted:

What about clearing the negative thoughts? I don't like just deleting the cadavers. Dwarfs should be dealing with them and having negative thoughts about them, just not permanently.

Honestly I have my dwarves clear a lot of corpses and haven't had an issue with the negative thought build up. Just drown it out with awesome dining halls, etc. I turn to dfhack when it is an FPS question.

Would be nice to have an actual fix but I don't think my dwarves have been snapping and going nuts about it for quite a few builds now even when there is a pile of corpses next to the front gates they are constantly going by. I want to say they just eventually stop caring about anything.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Sep 18, 2018

# ? Sep 18, 2018 06:13

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Getting back into this, and it sure never fails to have gotten even weirder <3

feelix posted:

Is the latest version still unplayable without careful management of body parts and corpses?

Dwarf Fortress 2018: Is the latest version still unplayable without careful management of body parts and corpses?

# ? Sep 18, 2018 12:34

tom bob-ombadil: Jan 1, 2012

I just had a dwarf baroness consort petition to join my fortress. She is married and has over ten pages worth of relations, including a husband, but no children. The only relatives she has residing at my fortress are two of her cousins (out of 82).

Goons, I think I've got a combination Disney Princess and Runaway Bride

tom bob-ombadil fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Sep 23, 2018

# ? Sep 23, 2018 23:52

Future Days: Oct 25, 2013; The Taurus didn't offer much for drivers craving the sport sedan experience. That changed with the 1989 debut of the Ford Taurus SHO (for Super High Output), a Q-ship of the finest order that offered up a high-revving Yamaha-designed V-6 engine and a tight sport suspension.

posted:

More link forming the last some days: rulers attending lectures and bonding over scholarly interests, people bonding over art at performances, people becoming friends at athletic competitions, or not necessarily friendly as rivalries are formed. Athletic competitions were limited to intra-civilization participation, which wasn't great for forming links, so I looked at the trade routes and diplomatic state. Now a competition which occurs in a city linked to another peaceful civilization by trade can accept competitors from that civilization. After that was implemented, we even had a dwarf and elf become friends, before the war started. Of course, they bonded over a foot race, which the elf won, which didn't seem entirely fair in retrospect.

I also allowed the variable-position cultures (humans and goblins) to form many more administrative positions to give them layers for the intrigue to operate over (the dwarves already have many layers, from the bookkeepers over to the landed nobles and monarch.) Now they can end up with a keeper of the seal, a royal justiciar, a chief housekeeper, a master of beasts, and many other randomized possibilities, depending on the values of the culture, its permitted professions and other traits. The positions overlap with the current dwarven responsibilities, though there are a few new ones. This doesn't mean much yet, specifically, but there will be some practical considerations implemented before we're through.

In particular, I'm almost feeling ready for Villain Conspiracy Attempt #2, but I'll likely toy around a bit more with crime and garden-variety corruption to make the situation even more amenable to larger-scale bad deeds and blackmail.

# ? Sep 24, 2018 00:27

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

loving the juxtaposition of names here

e:

now this is intriguing. how can I look up why the elves got pissed off during worldgen?

e2: No outpost liaison? How curious...

LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Sep 28, 2018

# ? Sep 28, 2018 00:50

Zesty: Jan 17, 2012; The Great Twist

IronicDongz posted:

e:
now this is intriguing. how can I look up why the elves got pissed off during worldgen?

e2: No outpost liaison? How curious...

This is all awesome. I envy your fortress completely cut off from the rest of civilization in a war against the Elves and sometimes the Goblins.

# ? Sep 28, 2018 06:49

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 08:04

Radio: Jul 25, 2003; Oh no, trash bear!

It's playable if by corpse management you mean completely abandoning that part of the map and walling it off. You do run out of space at some point, but that takes a few decades at least.

# ? Sep 28, 2018 08:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Dwarf Fortress: The child punches the cave spider in the thorax, bruising the brain!

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