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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:"Do you loving people still think that this guy who refuses to take himself off the ballot despite multiple opportunities to do so, is running?" I say as I disappear up my own smug rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 18, 2018 05:51
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| # ? May 28, 2024 23:37 |
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it is illustrative that all the centrist terror of vote-splitting evaporates the second that they think they might have a shot at retaining power if they do it see also Hillary "well, Bobby Kennedy got assassinated" Clinton
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Sep 18, 2018 05:55
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Fulchrum has already forgotten the New York State Court of Appeals ruling that replacing a candidate by renominating him for a different ballot is not fraud. He has already forgotten the act of forgetting. Doublethink. He also believes it is morally wrong and dishonest to be on a ballot for an office you don't want, and also no big deal and nothing anybody should care about, both of these at once, in whichever way is convenient for the Party. Doublethink. Running on the ballot on a third-party ticket is not actually running and of no importance and the voters will take no notice, unless you're asked to run on a different ballot and then it's definitely running and a terrible trick on the voters. Doublethink. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Sep 18, 2018 |
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Sep 18, 2018 05:56
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So, I assume you all intend to toxx on Crowley winning the election in November? Or do you not actually believe this poo poo and are just searching for things to whine about?
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Sep 18, 2018 05:57
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So there's no reason to get upset about Jill Stein, unless she actually wins. Right? Fulchrum posted:No, people like Jill Stein are loving traitors who work for outside interests to actively undermine what they claim to be for, because burning it down makes them feel important. People like Cornel West, who support the loving Greens after writing the goddamn Democratic platform, are idiots who deserve no political voice. Ah
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Sep 18, 2018 06:04
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If Jill Stein had not actually done a single bit of campaigning like Joe Crowley, and have actively endorsed his opponent like Joe Crowley, and have not been working for loving Putin, you might have the slightest bit of a point there.
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Sep 18, 2018 06:09
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VitalSigns posted:So there's no reason to get upset about Jill Stein, unless she actually wins. lmao bold move to claim a progressive black academic & civil rights activist deserves no political voice
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Sep 18, 2018 06:11
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Fulchrum posted:And changing his address would prevent him from running in politics for at least a decade. You're supposed to be presenting downsides, not upsides.
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Sep 18, 2018 06:14
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russia, you see, is kind of like mordor. all darkness comes from there, and the suggestion that forms of malice that do not originate in the towers of Barad-Dur exist is a laughable fiction, spun by the wicked to ensnare the foolish. by this method we prove that accusing the goddamned queers of costing John Kerry victory is good, actually
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Sep 18, 2018 06:17
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Lightning Knight posted:You're supposed to be presenting downsides, not upsides. You realise you're not supposed to be revealing this is about spiteful penalties, right?
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Sep 18, 2018 06:18
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Fulchrum posted:You realise you're not supposed to be revealing this is about spiteful penalties, right? what about Crowley suggests to you he has something to offer, Fulchrum what is the loss to American politics if he does the thing he said he would do
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Sep 18, 2018 06:20
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:what about Crowley suggests to you he has something to offer, Fulchrum So if someone loses the primary, they have nothing to offer America and need to just leave. It sucks that you want to see Bernie Sanders forcefully retired from politics, but if you feel that strongly about it....
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Sep 18, 2018 06:23
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Fulchrum posted:So if someone loses the primary, they have nothing to offer America and need to just leave. again, the terrified evasion, Fulchrum. what is it in Crowley that suggests to you that if he did the thing he said he'd do, America would be a worse place. surely, you can come up with something the man offers beyond your tribal fury that someone knocked off a no-show representative.
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Sep 18, 2018 06:27
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:again, the terrified evasion, Fulchrum. what is it in Crowley that suggests to you that if he did the thing he said he'd do, America would be a worse place. Leadership ability and an actual capacity to get things done. Oh, but he isn't pushing for full gay space communism yesterday, so he must just be trash, right?
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Sep 18, 2018 06:30
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Fulchrum posted:If Jill Stein had not actually done a single bit of campaigning like Joe Crowley, and have actively endorsed his opponent like Joe Crowley, and have not been working for loving Putin, you might have the slightest bit of a point there. Crowley's buddy Lieberman is already campaigning for him. There's a simple way to stop that, but Crowley won't do it, for no reason. Seems like he's fine with surrogates campaigning for him then. Despite his pledge to "vociferously and robustly" work for her election to congress. Fulchrum posted:So if someone loses the primary, they have nothing to offer America and need to just leave. No one's saying he needs to retire just because he lost (he should retire because he sucks tho, not because he lost), just to not loving run on a third-party ticket for this one race after he lost and pledged not to do it. It's telling that you can't come up with a good defense so you resort to insane hyperbole: "exile" "forcefully retire", it's like even your own brain knows its indefensible
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Sep 18, 2018 06:32
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Fulchrum posted:Leadership ability and an actual capacity to get things done. literally can't stop the homophobia from seeping out, huh
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Sep 18, 2018 06:32
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Fulchrum posted:So if someone loses the primary, they have nothing to offer America and need to just leave. Oh Snapple! posted:bold move to claim a progressive black academic & civil rights activist deserves no political voice ....Can we just throw out the word progressive at this point? He's a socialist, not a liberal, and at this point progressive is just a vague word liberals adopted after liberal was made a snarl word by Fox. Now that "progressive liberal fiscal conservative" has congealed into fetid existence, I think its time to drop the mask and just use the world socialist. Its already a snarl word for half the Democratic party, it can only go up from here, and now its not a criminal offense. Lightning Knight posted:You're supposed to be presenting downsides, not upsides. 
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Sep 18, 2018 06:33
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for those of you playing along at home, this trick is extremely useful in irl conversations with centrists! establishing what they want to have happen is an excellent route to a number of promising conversational pathways. the pragmatism of always conceding to the right, the morality of proclaiming mass murder no biggie, the utter incoherence of calling for more female guards on the child prisons... there's directions to go from the answer there. which is why fulchrum will avoid answering what it is he is trying to advocate for with religious intensity, because that path involves admitting he wants something more than to own the goddamned libs
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Sep 18, 2018 06:34
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Fulchrum posted:Leadership ability and an actual capacity to get things done. Fulchrum posted:Oh, but he isn't pushing for full gay space communism yesterday, so he must just be trash, right? Well that and his vote for the illegal, immoral, and ultimately catastrophic unprovoked war on Iraq.
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Sep 18, 2018 06:35
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VitalSigns posted:Crowley's buddy Lieberman is already campaigning for him. There's a simple way to stop that, but Crowley won't do it, for no reason. Seems like he's fine with surrogates campaigning for him then. Despite his pledge to "vociferously and robustly" work for her election to congress. So if Glenn Greenwald continued to campaign for Bernie Sanders up to the loving day of the general election in 2016 (which he did, and beyond), that is exactly as bad as if Sanders had done it himself. Its the exact same logic. Another person campaigning for someone by proxy directly against their wishes. Difference is Greenwald did it a fuckload more than Lieberman has. quote:No one's saying he needs to retire just because he lost (he should retire because he sucks tho, not because he lost), just to not loving run on a third-party ticket for this one race after he lost and pledged not to do it. Because you refuse to acknowledge you're asking him to either lie to the voters, or move out of the state and be barred from politics for a decade. Instead, you're simply trying to invoke your own insane delusions as justification for why he has to go through with this, all while tacitly admitting you know that it isn't going to be an actual issue, and you just want to do this out of spite. Either Toxx that Pappas or Crowley will win the general, or admit you're just doing this to whine. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:for those of you playing along at home, this trick is extremely useful in irl conversations with centrists! establishing what they want to have happen is an excellent route to a number of promising conversational pathways. the pragmatism of always conceding to the right, the morality of proclaiming mass murder no biggie, the utter incoherence of calling for more female guards on the child prisons... there's directions to go from the answer there. Is the view of your own colon that nice that you need to spend that long up your own rear end in a top hat? You realise this "get liberals to say the things we strawman them as saying" thing doesn't work when conservatives do it and it doesn't work for you either.
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Sep 18, 2018 06:43
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:he wants something more than to own the goddamned libs VitalSigns posted:Well that and his vote for the illegal, immoral, and ultimately catastrophic unprovoked war on Iraq.
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Sep 18, 2018 06:45
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Fulchrum posted:So if Glenn Greenwald continued to campaign for Bernie Sanders up to the loving day of the general election in 2016 (which he did, and beyond), that is exactly as bad as if Sanders had done it himself. If Bernie were somehow on the ballot and refused for no reason to withdraw despite the risk of active surrogates campaigning to split the vote, then he wouldn't have been doing everything he could to get Hillary elected and yes that would be exactly as bad (not that Hillary needed his help to lose lolololol), and it would have been right to brand him a liar and a traitor who is only helping Republicans. Fulchrum posted:Because you refuse to acknowledge you're asking him to either violate lie to the voters, I have provided you multiple legal authorities all agreeing that swapping out candidates this way is not a violation of the letter or spirit of the law. It's no more lying to the voters than remaining on this ballot is (either way he's still running for a position he claims not to want) so that's a wash. Also he obviously doesn't care about accepting unethical nominations since he got his seat in a secret meeting held before any other potential candidate was even notified of his predecessor's last-minute withdrawal.
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Sep 18, 2018 06:53
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VitalSigns posted:No it's not because Bernie was doing everything he could to get Hillary elected over Trump and he can't Jedi mindmeld Greenwald. But its nice to know you believe that Joe Crowley is able to control Liebermans mind. It really paints you as sane here. quote:I have provided you multiple legal authorities all agreeing that swapping out candidates this way is not a violation of the letter or spirit of the law. It's no more lying to the voters than remaining on this ballot is (either way he's still running for a position he claims not to want) so that's a wash. Also he obviously doesn't care about accepting unethical nominations since he got his seat in a secret meeting held before any other potential candidate was even notified of his predecessor's last-minute withdrawal. So instead of actually addressing the point you instead just continue to point to an irrelevancy, and then just say that he is lying to the voters by not actively campaigning for a position he wanted when he applied for it. You're really just highlighting you don't have an answer for this. And I also note that none of what you said is toxxing that either Crowley or Pappas would win, so I'll take that as an admission by you you know Crowley won't win or disrupt the vote in any way and are just bitching and moaning entirely for its own sake.
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Sep 18, 2018 07:05
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Hey here's another one, and while in spite of myself I almost like you HY!L, I gotta admit I reported you for this on general principle:Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Right, but leadership will need to be on board. They currently don't seem to be.
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Sep 18, 2018 07:17
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Fulchrum posted:No, he was doing everything he could to talk himself up, and not actually talking about her accomplishments and abilities, just continuing to keep himself in the public eye. Lol now you're complaining Bernie didn't do enough to help Hillary? Well then you concede that Crowley isn't either since he's doing even less! So much for his pledge to robustly work for her, I guess that was just a lie to wheedle the same out of her huh. Crowley obviously can't control Lieberman's mind. He can control whether he's on the ballot for Liberman to campaign for though! Fulchrum posted:So instead of actually addressing the point you instead just continue to point to an irrelevancy, and then just say that he is lying to the voters by not actively campaigning for a position he wanted when he applied for it. You're really just highlighting you don't have an answer for this. The fact that a simple, legal way for him to withdraw from this race exists is not an irrelevancy, and I'm explaining why the excuses for not doing it are dishonest bullshit. You don't have an answer for why he should stay though, there's no reason to cling to his spoiler ticket! Fulchrum posted:And I also note that none of what you said is toxxing that either Crowley or Pappas would win, so I'll take that as an admission by you you know Crowley won't win or disrupt the vote in any way and are just bitching and moaning entirely for its own sake. So before you complain about any third-party ticket ever again, forever, you're going to toxx that the ticket will win or cause the Republicans to win, right? Toxxing is dumb and I wouldn't do it even if I were 100% sure because there's no upside, only downside. Much like Crowley clinging to a spoiler ticket, there's no upside so it's not worth the risk no matter the odds. Why would you take any unnecessary risk of electing a Republican? That would be crazy, unless you prefer a Republican to a social democrat that is! VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Sep 18, 2018 |
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Sep 18, 2018 07:17
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Reminder that for all of the blather about it being wrong to be on the ballot for a seat one doesn't intend to get, Crowley has been nominating random old people for committee seats without their knowledge or consent. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/nyregion/queens-candidates-nominated-without-knowing.html This way he can force elections for seats that would otherwise go uncontested to the activists who actually want the jobs. Keeping the party effectively depopulated in turn lets him do poo poo like: https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1041757093022392321
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Sep 18, 2018 14:17
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VitalSigns posted:Probably not worth discussing since HtO is obviously just here to make snide comments and insinuations while ignoring arguments he can't answer, but I do find it interesting that even he isn't attempting to defend Crowley stubbornly clinging to the WFP nomination despite his pledge and the wishes of the Working Families Party itself (naturally, as it is of course indefensible) so he just defines the whole problem out of existence with an act of doublethink.
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Sep 18, 2018 14:17
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Ornedan posted:Reminder that for all of the blather about it being wrong to be on the ballot for a seat one doesn't intend to get, Crowley has been nominating random old people for committee seats without their knowledge or consent. but I'm sure there's some arcane, not actually relevant or valid, rule that MAKES him do this and not doing it would be FRAUD
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Sep 18, 2018 14:24
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:Hey here's another one, and while in spite of myself I almost like you HY!L, I gotta admit I reported you for this on general principle: If I don't get probated, which I don't think I will. It just proves my point. Don't be a bad faith bad poster, and you can absolutely discuss the current state of the democratic leadership. You can do it too!
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Sep 18, 2018 14:58
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I don't think you know what bad faith means.
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Sep 18, 2018 15:07
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:If I don't get probated, which I don't think I will. It just proves my point. TBF it is also tough to figure out whether you are a bad faith poster or just one of the dumbest.
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Sep 18, 2018 15:17
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Fulchrum posted:Is the view of your own colon that nice that you need to spend that long up your own rear end in a top hat? You realise this "get liberals to say the things we strawman them as saying" thing doesn't work when conservatives do it and it doesn't work for you either. and again, the dodge away from having to actually support something. when someone talks about what they want to support, it is possible to discuss the methods by which that thing is supported. for example, in your case, one can discuss the pragmatic value of blaming the queers for costing Kerry victory. clearly the person advancing that line of argument has no interest in morality, and visualizes politics as a brute numbers game! discussing the mechanism by which they anticipate telling the homos to gently caress off gets them more votes, however, leads to potentially fruitful discussion. which is why Fulchrum avoids supporting anything, beyond the vague concept of Getting Things Done. what those things are? irrelevant! iraq, afghanistan, libya, oceania, eastasia- all definitionally good, by virtue of their being Things, that got Done.
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Sep 18, 2018 15:26
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Lets be honest. Obama, superstar leader of the shitlib coalition, spent eight years trying to articulate a Woke Nationalism that would allow for the lie of Compassionate Conservatism to continue. He has continued this in the Trump era, desperate to conjure up some legitimizing myth for the people that are his enemy to use rather than talking about how much they want to dispossess, concentrate, and exterminate ethnic and sociological minorities. But here's the twist. Trumphumanimals actually want death camps and pointing this out breaks decorum.
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Sep 18, 2018 15:51
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 at Hillary complaining about dark money!
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Sep 18, 2018 16:39
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HootTheOwl posted:some tedious exercise in pedantry about what actually constitutes "running". Tedious pedantry about when running isn't really running is your entire argument lol, and sadly the best one you have.
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Sep 18, 2018 16:45
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VitalSigns posted:Tedious pedantry about when running isn't really running is your entire argument lol, and sadly the best one you have. Maybe it depends on what the definition of "is" is 
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Sep 18, 2018 16:48
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sexpig by night posted:but I'm sure there's some arcane, not actually relevant or valid, rule that MAKES him do this and not doing it would be FRAUD Also it would have been fraud NOT to get his US Rep seat in a secret voice vote held before anyone other potential candidate was even notified that the nomination was open.
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Sep 18, 2018 16:55
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HootTheOwl posted:That's just wrong. I don't ignore arguments I can't answer. I ignore arguments that would take effort to answer. Like some tedious exercise in pedantry about what actually constitutes "running". Why even bother posting here then? Don't you have anything better to do?
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Sep 18, 2018 17:17
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Helsing posted:Why even bother posting here then? Don't you have anything better to do? Not until Chelsea Manning's torturers need some white-knighting, no
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Sep 18, 2018 17:27
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I mean, I'm not afraid to admit I'm a politics nerd and that's why I come into forums about politics so I can argue and debate and dissect things. It's a dorky hobby but it helps me organize my thoughts and forces me to actually respond to other live human beings, which does sometimes expose weak spots in your thinking. Hanging around a forum like this just to make intentionally low effort posts is literally the most pathetic hobby I can imagine. Why wouldn't you just watch a movie, take a walk, read a book, go to the gym, socialize with someone, etc.? This just reminds me of all those psychological studies of internet trolls showing they are almost universally depressed and under socialized in their actual lives.
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Sep 18, 2018 17:42
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