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If I get extended or a new job I still think I may just go with a used 1080ti for my 1440p/144hz needs going forward
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Sep 19, 2018 14:39
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I’m curious to see what the power draw of this chip will be when the RT and tensor cores are in use.
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Sep 19, 2018 14:41
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Almost twice the performance of a stock 1080 for the 2080ti before OC. Oh God, feeling the itch since I game at 4k. Be nice to max out XCOM 2. Probably wouldn't really notice it though. Now there's something that can make a fella feel guilty.
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Sep 19, 2018 14:44
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I really thought the 2080 ti would perform like the 1080 ti without the new features, I'm glad it performs well and now that waiting for one to get in stock.
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Sep 19, 2018 14:52
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Nice, by the looks of that I can safely squeeze by with a 1070Ti or 1080 @1440p/60 until another gen comes out. Hopefully AMD will be back in the game by then, or at least have something semi-decent on the market to buy so Nvidia stops price gouging. As far as I know the 2070 is also on the new architecture but we have no idea about performance, guessing it'll be on line with a 1080 + the new DLSS and raytracing stuff? What's the chance that the 2060/2050 are going to be a "refresh"/rebrand of the 1070Ti/1070/1060 6GB? I could wait for those, rather than fishing for used cards which is always a pain.
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Sep 19, 2018 14:58
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Looking like the 2080 is going to be a badass card for 1440p high refresh, doubly so if DLSS turns into the killer feature it's hinting at. Definitely not cancelling that pre-order now.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:04
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Performance for the 20 series cards is about what I(and everyone else) expected, though the gains in some games are pretty amazing. I have been seeing a lot of complaining about there being no games that use ray tracing or DLSS and I find it really dumb and weird. I mean, no one is going to develop a game using new tech like the RTX ray tracing or DLSS without the hardware for it, it's like people expect game developers to travel back in time to implement future features or for Nvidia to become a game dev just so that there will be software that can take advantage of their future products. Yeah, it sucks that we don't know when or even if these new features will be used outside of just a few titles, but this is a chicken and egg problem, without the hardware there won't be software, and apparently without the software no one should bother making hardware with new features.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:08
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:I have been seeing a lot of complaining about there being no games that use ray tracing or DLSS and I find it really dumb and weird. I mean, no one is going to develop a game using new tech like the RTX ray tracing or DLSS without the hardware for it, it's like people expect game developers to travel back in time to implement future features or for Nvidia to become a game dev just so that there will be software that can take advantage of their future products. Yeah, it sucks that we don't know when or even if these new features will be used outside of just a few titles, but this is a chicken and egg problem, without the hardware there won't be software, and apparently without the software no one should bother making hardware with new features. It's an especially dumb complaint considering they've already announced 25 games getting DLSS and 11 games getting RTRT...
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Sep 19, 2018 15:10
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It's the first new generation with worse performance per dollar since the last generation in forever. That's an incredibly, absolutely terrible, look. IMO.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:13
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Performance for the 20 series cards is about what I(and everyone else) expected, though the gains in some games are pretty amazing. You can't bench games that haven't implemented DLSS yet. Like, the cards obviously have this untapped potential but the best reviewers can do is note that the potential exists and that it's doing 40% in relatively simple demo scenarios, you can't throw down hard numbers for a feature that's not implemented yet. I think it'll be a big deal but NVIDIA should have been working with studios 6 months ago, not after launch. Give them Voltas for tensor cores, and let them get to work. Truga posted:It's the first new generation with worse performance per dollar since the last generation in forever. That's an incredibly, absolutely terrible, look. IMO. The 2080 takes 1080 Ti performance and bumps it back up to 1080 Ti launch pricing, with the wildcard of DLSS making that potentially worth it. The 2080 Ti is legitimately the fastest thing around, but really should have been branded as a Titan with a price tag like that. If it had been branded as a Titan I think people would have taken the pricing a lot better. By all means if your needs are served by a 1080 then that's the best deal around at the moment. But the 1080 Ti has been usurped and once we get past the launch gouging phase it's going to be a worse deal (even ignoring DLSS), I really don't see a problem with pricing on the 2080. And the 2080 Ti just has no peer at the moment, so if you want to go faster than a 2080/1080 Ti then you really don't have any other options. Wait 9 months to the point in the cycle where the x80 Tis usually launch and the price will be more reasonable. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 15:14
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What do you expect people to do? Steve at gamers nexus sums it is best. They can only review cards based on available games today. As it stands there are no ray tracing or DLSS enabled games currently and That makes these cards a poor value at the moment. That will most likely change once games have those features. How is that being unreasonable?
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Sep 19, 2018 15:17
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Truga posted:It's the first new generation with worse performance per dollar since the last generation in forever. That's an incredibly, absolutely terrible, look. IMO. But it is the first generation like since geforce 256, which offloads more features from cpu to gpu. Also I'm interested in seeing DLSS reviews, how much better the price/perf is with that enabled in games.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:17
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Perf/$ is a meaningless number on its own. Perf upgrade/$ is what matters. If you go from a 980 to a 2080, you aren't paying $800 for 2080 performance, you're paying maybe $650 (after selling the 980) for the gap between a 980 and a 2080. With that in mind, the Ti looks to me clearly the better value of these two cards. It provides a bigger uplift, and better sustainability/resale value. That said, the real question is if you should get a whatever 10 series will carry you through the next 12-15 months and wait for the 7nm refresh, which could be the real killer cards. Depends a lot on how the 7nm process matures with big, power hungry chips, and how much higher the architecture can clock on a more efficient process. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 15:26
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Enos Cabell posted:Looking like the 2080 is going to be a badass card for 1440p high refresh, doubly so if DLSS turns into the killer feature it's hinting at. Definitely not cancelling that pre-order now. How did you come to that conclusion? The 2080 gets almost exactly the same performance as a good 1080Ti but it's approaching 50% more expensive. DLSS is only really useful for 4K so that shouldn't matter for 1440p either. Games that use raytracing don't exist yet and it'll be a long time yet until it's in widespread use. If you're not planning to get a 4K monitor anytime soon, there's really no point whatsoever to buying a 2080 right now. You should probably wait at least a year before taking the plunge. If raytracing doesn't take off (or if you don't play new games that start using it), you might want to wait even longer. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 15:29
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The problem is that gpu's have always lagged severely behind displays. 3440x1440@120Hz is more demanding than 4K@60Hz. And 2080ti barely runs games at 4K60... Options have always been to play games with a low res/low hz monitor, or buy the fastest card available. I haven't ever owned a fast enough GPU so it is good at least one company keeps releasing them, after everyone else gave up.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:32
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K8.0 posted:With that in mind, the Ti looks to me clearly the better value of these two cards. It provides a bigger uplift, and better sustainability/resale value. That said, the real question is if you should get a whatever 10 series will carry you through the next 12-15 months and wait for the 7nm refresh, which could be the real killer cards. Depends a lot on how the 7nm process matures with big, power hungry chips, and how much higher the architecture can clock on a more efficient process. It could easily be closer to 18 months given that AMD still probably can't compete with Turing even with a node advantage. Really though I think people are pinning too much hope on 7nm. Transistor costs are almost certainly going to go up at 7nm, despite die sizes going down. That means that a 2080 Ti equivalent (3080/etc) on 7nm will cost more than a 2080 Ti on 14nm. It will allow bigger chips to be made, but they will be proportionately more expensive. (unless NVIDIA comes up with some massive uarch gain between now and then, but those gains are getting fewer and fewer, and it's going to be "tricks" like DLSS that actually boost performance-per transistor) If you need more performance then just buy it, the next serious price-to-performance improvements are likely to be 2020 when Intel hits the market and AMD launches their next-gen uarch and it's nuts to pin your hopes on something that's 2 years out. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 15:33
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TheFluff posted:How did you come to that conclusion? The 2080 gets almost exactly the same performance as a good 1080Ti but it's approaching 50% more expensive. DLSS is only really useful for 4K so that shouldn't matter for 1440p either. Games that use raytracing don't exist yet and it'll be a long time yet until it's in widespread use. I don't buy used cards, the 2080 was only $50 more expensive than a 1080ti and even without the extra features beats it in pretty much every benchmark.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:34
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Ihmemies posted:But it is the first generation like since geforce 256, which offloads more features from cpu to gpu. Also I'm interested in seeing DLSS reviews, how much better the price/perf is with that enabled in games.  K8.0 posted:Perf/$ is a meaningless number on its own. Perf upgrade/$ is what matters. If you go from a 980 to a 2080, you aren't paying $800 for 2080 performance, you're paying maybe $650 (after selling the 980) for the gap between a 980 and a 2080.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:35
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B-Mac posted:What do you expect people to do? Steve at gamers nexus sums it is best. They can only review cards based on available games today. As it stands there are no ray tracing or DLSS enabled games currently and That makes these cards a poor value at the moment. That will most likely change once games have those features. How is that being unreasonable? What you outlined is reasonable, but it's also not what I was complaining about. I'm seeing people say that Nvidia should not release cards with new tech unless there is software on the market that can use that new tech, to me at least that is ridiculous, someone has to take the first step and hardware makers are the ones that make the most sense for that.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:36
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Happy to see no ugly surprises. Now all we can complain about is price, and rightly so. Some games really shine for some reason (and some dont), but 25-35%+ overall in my use case plus features I absolutely want. I am not disappointed
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Sep 19, 2018 15:36
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Where is the 2070 slated for release? With DLSS, maybe that will be really interesting.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:36
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Yeah, I think anyone with a 1080 ti thinking about a 2080 would be happy with the performance to stay. I have a personal rule to not buy in the same generation so I'm going from a 1080 to a 2080 ti. I don't see any reason to get a 2080 over a 1080 ti though, 50 watts more heat (who cares) for the same performance at hundreds of dollars less.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:36
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Enos Cabell posted:I don't buy used cards, the 2080 was only $50 more expensive than a 1080ti and even without the extra features beats it in pretty much every benchmark. And most likely will beat it even more after DLSS support have been patched to games. Of course that is with grain of salt, since there are only Nvidia's own numbers available.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:36
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:What you outlined is reasonable, but it's also not what I was complaining about. I'm seeing people say that Nvidia should not release cards with new tech unless there is software on the market that can use that new tech, to me at least that is ridiculous, someone has to take the first step and hardware makers are the ones that make the most sense for that. There are already gaming(-ish) cards with tensor cores on the market, NVIDIA took the first step 9 months ago or whatever. They should have started working on software then, not after launching their consumer cards.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:37
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I mean, if I didn't have another PC that I need to move my current 1080 into I would be skipping this gen. But I do need a new card, and for me 2080 vs 1080ti was an easy decision for a $50 difference.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:39
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was kind of hoping the 2080 would dust the 1080ti at that price point, not really seeing the point of the card at that price unless DLSS is just amazing. was sort of interested going 2080ti and ditching SLi for an ITX build, hopefully there are cards approaching MSRP around christmas? maybe?
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Sep 19, 2018 15:39
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Paul MaudDib posted:There are already gaming(-ish) cards with tensor cores on the market, NVIDIA took the first step 9 months ago or whatever. They should have started working on software then, not after launching their consumer cards.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:39
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:What you outlined is reasonable, but it's also not what I was complaining about. I'm seeing people say that Nvidia should not release cards with new tech unless there is software on the market that can use that new tech, to me at least that is ridiculous, someone has to take the first step and hardware makers are the ones that make the most sense for that. Like, nobody releases game consoles with zero launch games for the same reason.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:41
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Truga posted:Hmmm, no. No that's not how that works, in that case I get even more perf/$ for a cheaper card, because $150 off a $800 card is 19% off, $150 off a $600 card is 25% off a card that already gives me better performance per $. You're still ignoring the performance delta being the part you're gaining, not the baseline performance. For example, in terms of today's performance, if you go from a 1080Ti to a 2080, you are getting essentially nothing. Your perf upgrade/$ is zero, even though it only costs you $200. The 2080Ti is literally an infinitely better value proposition in terms of an upgrade for playing right now for a 1080Ti owner.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:41
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What's so unreasonable about expecting NVIDIA to have worked with studios on Titan Vs so they could have a few titles to show off DLSS on launch day? There is no chicken-and-egg problem if the hardware already exists. Intentional or not, NVIDIA not having any titles available on launch day to test the signature features of their cards (literally in the name) is absolutely a flub. I can understand that raytracing takes time to integrate in a serious fashion (since it changes up how lights will have to be placed/etc) but there's really not an excuse for DLSS not being in a few actual titles for reviewers to test. If they had gotten it into let's say PUBG, Hellblade, BF1, and ROTTR, that would have been enough for reviewers to say "OK, looks like it's about 40%", but they're (rightly) not going to do that over some on-rails demo scenes. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 15:43
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Enos Cabell posted:I mean, if I didn't have another PC that I need to move my current 1080 into I would be skipping this gen. But I do need a new card, and for me 2080 vs 1080ti was an easy decision for a $50 difference. Yeah 2080 vs 1080ti is easy to decide since the difference is small.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:44
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Truga posted:Yeah 2080 vs 1080ti is easy to decide since the difference is small. You're right, the performance difference is fairly small. 2080 is still faster, and I'm willing to gamble that ray tracing and DLSS will add more than $50 in value over the life of the card.
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Sep 19, 2018 15:53
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Llamadeus posted:Expecting some software that makes use of your new hardware to be ready on launch day is a perfectly reasonable expectation. Yes, it is an unreasonable expectation on the PC. Consoles are completely different, you can't play a console game at all without the console, you're basically saying that developers should put resources into features that might be used at some point in the future and no dev in their right mind will do that when there are other things they could put their resources towards that see immediate benefit now. Paul MaudDib posted:What's so unreasonable about expecting NVIDIA to have worked with studios on Titan Vs so they could have a few titles to show off DLSS on launch day? Does the Titan V do DLSS? Do you actually know if it can or not?
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Sep 19, 2018 15:56
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Enos Cabell posted:You're right, the performance difference is fairly small. 2080 is still faster, and I'm willing to gamble that ray tracing and DLSS will add more than $50 in value over the life of the card. 2080 is undisputably better than 1080ti on paper i dont think anybody will argue against that, assumig youre getting both cards for roughly same price
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Sep 19, 2018 15:59
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Talking in maple syrup hockey puck dollars here but I can snag a 1080ti for about 650-700 used on eBay whereas to preorder the 2080 its 1100 bucks plus tax and fifty loving dollar shipping, so north of 1300. I've made my decision!
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Sep 19, 2018 15:59
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The 2080 FE card seems pretty terrible as far as noise and thermals go (fans at 100% leads to 60 dBa  ), so you probably don't want that one anyway. Meanwhile, a new 1080Ti from Asus or EVGA with one of the good coolers is under $750 new today.
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Sep 19, 2018 16:01
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Statutory Ape posted:2080 is undisputably better than 1080ti on paper i dont think anybody will argue against that, assumig youre getting both cards for roughly same price I probably just misread what Truga was saying.
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Sep 19, 2018 16:03
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TheFluff posted:The 2080 FE card seems pretty terrible as far as noise and thermals go (fans at 100% leads to 60 dBa True but thats at 3700 rpm, the 2080 in particular seems to settle in at 1800 rpm. This is a massive improvement over the blower coolers of past, it also isnt throttling like they used to. Good riddance to blowers  Certainly AIBs can do better but this is a good thing imo
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Sep 19, 2018 16:07
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there's still that much-rumoured glut of 10xx chips to hit the market, isn't it if all of those were lower bins then it wouldn't impact the 1080ti much, but if 1080tis are still piling up in warehouses, then the 2080 is in really bad shape for holiday season
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Sep 19, 2018 16:07
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Yes, it is an unreasonable expectation on the PC. Consoles are completely different, you can't play a console game at all without the console, you're basically saying that developers should put resources into features that might be used at some point in the future and no dev in their right mind will do that when there are other things they could put their resources towards that see immediate benefit now. Nvidia just decided to launch the cards before a single implementation was ready.
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Sep 19, 2018 16:08
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