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fnox posted:My god, you're actually serious about this. Just trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who voted for Maduro.
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Sep 19, 2018 17:55
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qkkl posted:If I was a starving Venezuelan and I saw that the guy I voted for to fix the country is sifting through garbage like me to feed himself I would not be happy. I'd tell him to go loving order some food for himself, on the taxpayers dime if necessary, so he can actually sit down and work on implementing plans to fix the country. And if he needs to smoke a cigar or two to calm his nerves then go for it! Dude nobody's saying he should starve himself. If he actually cared about appearances though, he'd probably at least go on a diet, and make a point of being filmed eating modest meals shared with hungry Venezuelans. Of course he's going to partake in luxuries, because he can, but at least pretend you aren't living the life of a rich king while your peasants starve. I'm having fun imagining your takes on Marie Antoinette.
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Sep 19, 2018 17:57
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qkkl posted:Just trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who voted for Maduro. You want to put yourself in the shoes of someone who voted for Maduro? Here, you can pick any of these personas: 1) Young man who literally grew up under Chavez and under permanent propaganda. You don't know anything but Chavismo. 2) Public employee, who has a family to feed so you keep your job by voting for him. 3) Minor party representative who gets preferential treatment from the party. You're out for your own self interests. 4) Starved, extremely poor Venezuelan suffering through a lot every day. But you vote so that you can get a chance of being one of the lucky ones who get handouts. 5) "Intellectual" acting out of spite. You're indoctrinated but in a different form. Hate drives you to say that anything but Maduro is giving way to the imperialists. 6) Major party or military official who's getting a piece of the pie. If the government is ever ousted, you know you'll have to run and hide.
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Sep 19, 2018 18:08
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fnox posted:You want to put yourself in the shoes of someone who voted for Maduro? Here, you can pick any of these personas: Sounds like enough for an electoral majority to me. Seems like the only people who don't vote PSUV are exiles who live overseas and the rich.
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Sep 19, 2018 19:46
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Ok google, what is coercion?
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Sep 19, 2018 19:57
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Sounds like enough for an electoral majority to me. Seems like the only people who don't vote PSUV are exiles who live overseas and the rich. You literally didnt even acknowledge anything in the bullet points laid out. How about this one: 4) Starved, extremely poor Venezuelan suffering through a lot every day. But you vote so that you can get a chance of being one of the lucky ones who get handouts. So you vote to get a mel for the day. And thats okay to you?
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Sep 19, 2018 19:57
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Sounds like enough for an electoral majority to me. Seems like the only people who don't vote PSUV are exiles who live overseas and the rich. How does your big brain conclude that Maduro has an electoral majority after overwhelmingly losing the parliamentary elections of 2015? While you're at it find me a reason why Maduro isn't a bad guy.
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Sep 19, 2018 20:07
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just don't reply to him, he's either utterly deluded or a troll. In either case he is beyond the help that can be given through a forums post hth
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Sep 19, 2018 20:36
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You're being trolled, you dense fucks.
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Sep 19, 2018 20:55
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Mr. Sunshine posted:You're being trolled, you dense fucks. It's legit hard to tell because the ruling party says stupid poo poo like that on the regular.
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Sep 19, 2018 21:16
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Sounds like enough for an electoral majority to me. Seems like the only people who don't vote PSUV are exiles who live overseas and the rich. People keep saying you're as dumb as a brick. But being compared to you would be an insult to the bricks.
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Sep 19, 2018 21:27
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Mr. Sunshine posted:You're being trolled, you dense fucks. I think trolling is usually considered trolling if the person is doing it just for the luls because they're 16 year old idiots. CPL and Bob have been so consistently detached from reality across so many years that it's likely they somehow genuinely believe what they are saying. Back on topic, even NYT has an article about Salt Bae today: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/18/us/saltbae-rubio-maduro-venezuela.html "“I sat in the throne of a sultan [on a visit to an antiquities museum in Istanbul] — ‘the Sultan Maduro,’ they’re calling me now,” Mr. Maduro said." What a loving piece of poo poo. Saladman fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 23:07
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Saladman posted:
The title on that article doesn't even pretend to not be agitprop for the liberal classes. quote:Salt Bae Serves Maduro as Venezuela Suffers I would like to see the NYT run an article about obama going windsurfing while America suffers. How can any leader take time off when 41% of the nation's children live below or near the poverty line???
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Sep 19, 2018 23:48
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:The title on that article doesn't even pretend to not be agitprop for the liberal classes. Lmao what kind of preening dweeb even writes a loving sentence like this?
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Sep 20, 2018 00:08
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I would like to see the NYT run an article about obama going windsurfing while America suffers. How can any leader take time off when 41% of the nation's children live below or near the poverty line??? Didn't Fox News go after him on numerous occasions for his choice of mustard, etc. while not giving a poo poo about AMERICA? 
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Sep 20, 2018 00:13
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With Venezuela's oil production dropping like a rock, the global oil supply is going down. This is going to raise oil prices. Higher oil prices means the more expensive fracking operations in North Dakota in the US will become more profitable, allowing them to increase production. Counter-intuitively, it may be in the US's best interest to keep Maduro in power so Venezuela continues to suffer and not produce as much oil. Pro-Venezuelans should be on the lookout for imperialist plots to keep Maduro in power.
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Sep 20, 2018 00:40
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Saladman posted:I think trolling is usually considered trolling if the person is doing it just for the luls because they're 16 year old idiots. CPL and Bob have been so consistently detached from reality across so many years that it's likely they somehow genuinely believe what they are saying. Caps and Bob are... well, a couple of years back I was at the Red Star book store, looking for a copy of the Communist Manifesto. At the counter were two 50+ guys, earnestly discussing the inevitable coming world revolution like it's 1917. That's Caps and Bob.
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Sep 20, 2018 06:26
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Unironically this is exactly how mad durr, yo should behave. He's the figurehead representative of the ruling party, servant of that party and the priveleged class. His job is to act strong and project calm to engender trust and loyalty to the current order, regardless of whether the current order is good or not. -Especially- when the current order is guilty as gently caress for the collapse of the economy. The dude is good at that by being 6/10 handsome, having a Stalin moustache, and the bravadachio that comes from hearing sheep tell you you're cool. The really scary thing would be if he soberly acknowledged mismanagement and corruption, and advocated a right-sizing plan for the country. The guy would be cood faster than the speed of sound and replaced by the next flavor of the week. Even if there was nothing left in the country but a vault of donuts, the donut-keeper would shank that bitch if he disrupted the order. Us ITT, lowclass idiots who like happy endings in movies, have a narrow view and can't understand that, even though V proles are screwed there is still enough wealth in the country to maintain a sizable idle class. If there is any suffering, it's only proof that the suffering people do not matter in the political equation. What does it matter if your bebe gets fed when the failing rigs and pipes can be run by China? If your bebe could make Minecraft 2.0 then maybe it would matter but until then the only game is skimming off the sulfurous crood. Ignoring the crisis and chowing down is the best, and the only possible petro state-ment from the bol-haver. It's just fate so don't hate if you're mad, durr. Yo. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 20, 2018 07:14
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"CHAVISAMOS AND CHAVISTAS we are now announcing that the country is failing faster than zimbabwe! " uh gently caress no. They will ride this poo poo out then exit the country. Im just wondering how long maduro will be gone before they realize it. Not to say he is gone. But I mean how long from the time he exits to the time it hits nationally WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Sep 20, 2018 |
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Sep 20, 2018 07:40
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:
loving laughing out loud at the idea that the US is in as dire shape as Venezuela. Below the poverty line in the US is probably a better quality of life than being what passes for middle class today in Venezuela. And I'm not at all saying poor people have it good in the US.
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Sep 20, 2018 08:37
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I grew up in a single parent household with low income and several years with no heat in the Michigan winter where we slept under 4 blankets and wore 2 coats in the house and we still had it better than Venezuelans because I never had to dig through trash cans for food.
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Sep 20, 2018 10:38
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When you talk to the Venezuelans in this thread, you talk to people who have literally eaten out of trash cans. Many of them. The ones that fled the country usually did so with nothing but the clothes on their back. They're not rich, they're lucky they made it out. Many of the people in this thread even offered help to get them out. There are 2.3 million Venezuelan refugees scattered all across the world because Venezuela does not have food or medicine anymore.
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Sep 20, 2018 10:42
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Salt Bae's restaurant is pretty good, but it is not the "best" restaurant in Turkey, nor does it in any way represent traditional Turkish or Ottoman cuisine. The thing is that eating there is without any doubt the most expensive way you can eat in Turkey. It's literally now a place where you go to show that you can pay a premium on how much things are actually worth, because you have the money. Maduro went to Turkey on a stop-over, and he went to the place where you pay the most money, while smoking a fat cigar. And then he called himself Sultan and said he'll be back. This is so over the top that I think Maduro is at this point just trolling Venezuelans.
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Sep 20, 2018 10:47
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It's really loving weird how caps lock broken can't just assume it is okay to criticize Maduro, a garbage human being, for doing a completely awful thing, in a way which is continued proof of being a hideous and illegitimate ruler. That's never going to be the angle represented. The comport of pseudo-socialist figures, even the most horrid of them, is completely invisible to him until the nanosecond his brain threads it to a criticism of a Great Western Enemy in an almost comical form of pathological whataboutism. To complete the picture, he's about the fastest posting finger in all the west when it comes to any opportunity he doth have to protest his being saddled with the label of whataboutism-er.
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Sep 20, 2018 11:00
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:The title on that article doesn't even pretend to not be agitprop for the liberal classes. That doesn't matter, we're talking about a nation who literally STARVES, I don't recall any serious famines being a big issue in the US during the Obama Administration, wasn't his fault the American people kept electing republicans into the House and Senate. Besides, Fox News did rip into Obama whenever he farted, that's why nations should have several news outlets, preferably owned by different companies.
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Sep 20, 2018 15:18
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RagnarokZ posted:That doesn't matter, we're talking about a nation who literally STARVES, I don't recall any serious famines being a big issue in the US during the Obama Administration, wasn't his fault the American people kept electing republicans into the House and Senate. Person: "Maybe Assad is a bad person for rounding up and torturing to death hundreds of thousands of people, and systematically bombing hospitals and homes?" Caps Lock: "Assad's fine, you Westerners even have your own concentration camps, just look at Manus Island!!!!1one you hypocrites" [Edit: Changed to a closer analogy] Saladman fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Sep 20, 2018 |
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Sep 20, 2018 16:03
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Just a couple of years ago this forum was full of dudes holding up Venezuela as Socialist paradise, with the only small problem being imperialist interference. I mean remember the discussion about how expropriation of investements is good, righteous and a sound economic policy. Now all that's left to cheerlead is some fat-dude eating a steak.
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Sep 20, 2018 16:10
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To be fair to the argument that the steak discourse is bad, I came in here trying to figure out what's up with Venezuela and my first impression is that things must be going okay there because the only thing people are talking about is some dumb FOX news level poo poo like a steak dinner is a significant portion of the GDP. I'm slowly working backwards because I'm stubborn but y'all should know.
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Sep 20, 2018 16:22
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GladRagKraken posted:To be fair to the argument that the steak discourse is bad, I came in here trying to figure out what's up with Venezuela and my first impression is that things must be going okay there because the only thing people are talking about is some dumb FOX news level poo poo like a steak dinner is a significant portion of the GDP. I'm slowly working backwards because I'm stubborn but y'all should know.
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Sep 20, 2018 16:29
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GladRagKraken posted:To be fair to the argument that the steak discourse is bad, I came in here trying to figure out what's up with Venezuela and my first impression is that things must be going okay there because the only thing people are talking about is some dumb FOX news level poo poo like a steak dinner is a significant portion of the GDP. I'm slowly working backwards because I'm stubborn but y'all should know. Except for the lack of overpriced steak, Venezuela is doing fine.
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Sep 20, 2018 16:38
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I assume this post was made from an alternate universe where Google doesn't exist. Because otherwise it is some incredibly lazy and entitled bullshit. If you're really coming at me telling me that the conversation in this thread isn't worth reading I guess I'll take you at your word.
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Sep 20, 2018 16:48
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GladRagKraken posted:If you're really coming at me telling me that the conversation in this thread isn't worth reading I guess I'll take you at your word. It's a discussion thread, not a Vox Explainer.
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Sep 20, 2018 16:52
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GladRagKraken posted:If you're really coming at me telling me that the conversation in this thread isn't worth reading I guess I'll take you at your word. If you actually want to read through the thread, just filter and only go through Chuck Boone's comments, they're by far the highest quality. Blue Nation (and maybe Furia?) might also be worth reading because they're actually in Venezuela. Several other posters escaped recently (fnox) and their posts might also be interesting. Chuck's posts are generally the best in terms of reporting quality and he seemingly takes the adage "never mud wrestle a pig" seriously and rarely engages bad posters, and when he does he engages them with thoughtful discussion and sources (which are then, of course, fully ignored).
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Sep 20, 2018 17:07
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If people are eating out of trash cans, it means that someone has enough food that they can throw some of it away. Maybe the food should be redistributed so that less edible food is thrown away.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:34
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The Maoist-Third Worldists have logged on
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Sep 20, 2018 17:58
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qkkl posted:If people are eating out of trash cans, it means that someone has enough food that they can throw some of it away. Maybe the food should be redistributed so that less edible food is thrown away. lollin irl, top notch
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Sep 20, 2018 18:14
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Kavros posted:It's really loving weird how caps lock broken can't just assume it is okay to criticize Maduro, a garbage human being, for doing a completely awful thing, in a way which is continued proof of being a hideous and illegitimate ruler. That's never going to be the angle represented. The comport of pseudo-socialist figures, even the most horrid of them, is completely invisible to him until the nanosecond his brain threads it to a criticism of a Great Western Enemy in an almost comical form of pathological whataboutism. There is a certain group of people on here who have a common thread of loving right wing dictatorships sitting around and ruling in the name of "leftism" or "anti-imperialism" despite being anything but. Russia, PRC, North Korea, and then various puppets of the week like Syria. You'll notice they often don't even bother to support countries like Cuba that have been much more successful in abiding by leftist principles.
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Sep 20, 2018 20:12
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GladRagKraken posted:To be fair to the argument that the steak discourse is bad, I came in here trying to figure out what's up with Venezuela and my first impression is that things must be going okay there because the only thing people are talking about is some dumb FOX news level poo poo like a steak dinner is a significant portion of the GDP. I'm slowly working backwards because I'm stubborn but y'all should know. tl;dr Venezuelans are literally starving to death, hyperinflation has destroyed their currency, hospitals don't have access to the most basic of medicines, there are 2.3 million refugees who've fled the country, and the government continues to turn down international aid because international food/medical aid means admitting there's a problem. Maduro and the PSUV abandoned all pretense of democracy and continually postponed elections until they illegally created a new "Constituent Assembly" made up of their supporters that was chosen in an obviously fraudulent election, and they killed hundreds of protesters who were angry about this. People roam the countryside looking for cattle or other animals to eat and one of the rural Venezuelan posters in here literally had his cattle attacked and butchered for meat by starving desperadoes. The military has been cut in on the corruption and now they deliver CLAP bags of food to loyal Maduro supporters but most of the food they steal and sell on the black market.
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Sep 20, 2018 23:02
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Mr. Sunshine posted:Nah, it's qkkl who's obviously trolling with the whole "smoking cigars make Maduro a better leader". I mean, please. I dunno, he doesn't really come off as a traditional Marxist-socialist to me. What he reminds me off is a certain kind of voice that I hear coming from the sinosphere which demands respect for political systems besides the standard systems of western Europe and North America. I don't think he's particularily interested creating state industries or empowering workers. Rather they want acknowledgement that alternatives to western ideology can work, and want to see western interference abroad limited. After all China has committed to not exporting Revolution, so why shouldn't the US commit not to export counter-revolution? Caps on caps reminds of some guy I heard on the BBC from Singapore who --after some criticisms of China's human-rights record-- demanded acknowledgement of the successes of the Chinese system.
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Sep 21, 2018 05:43
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Squalid posted:Caps on caps reminds of some guy I heard on the BBC from Singapore who --after some criticisms of China's human-rights record-- demanded acknowledgement of the successes of the Chinese system. Exxcuuuse me?
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Sep 21, 2018 10:49
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