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I kinda didn't count 4e because pretty much every martial class was way better there.
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Sep 20, 2018 13:51
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disqualified for being too good
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Sep 20, 2018 13:54
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And yet, also still discouraged from actually punching things or even just having their hands empty. The main purpose of monk unarmed damage dice in 4e was grabbing them with a multiclass feat for your brawler fighter so you could actually play a punchman.
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Sep 20, 2018 14:09
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The Crotch posted:And yet, also still discouraged from actually punching things or even just having their hands empty. The main purpose of monk unarmed damage dice in 4e was grabbing them with a multiclass feat for your brawler fighter so you could actually play a punchman. But at least they started as 'equivalent to a sword' instead with a possible upgrade to 'equivalent to a bastard sword'
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Sep 20, 2018 14:14
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Toplowtech posted:Never roll your HP, always take the average. The people at the table telling you to roll your Hit Dice when you level just want to see you dead. I had a con of 10. So 8 HP and I rolled a 2. I was attacked by 3 giant rats. They won initiative and one crit me. The other 2 hit me and I died. My DM has us both roll for HP and I can take mine, or his blind pick. I rolled a 1 and he rolled a 2. It sucks because I liked my bard, but now I'm a level 3 dwarven cleric (who went from 25 HP down to 1 from an inflict wounds spell his first round of combat). I'm feeling good about this guy.
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Sep 20, 2018 14:23
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The D&D Next earth element monk was cool. Grab a baddie, inflict bludgeoning vulnerability, go to town.
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Sep 20, 2018 14:38
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RC Cola posted:I had a con of 10. So 8 HP and I rolled a 2. I was attacked by 3 giant rats. They won initiative and one crit me. The other 2 hit me and I died. Now you make it sound like your DM wanted to murder you. Attacking dying PCs is just rude, if technically allowed. It also sounds like you could have lived. If only two other rats hit you while you were dying an neither of them crit, you still had one more chance to stabilize; a pretty trivial task if anyone else in your party was within moving distance of you.
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Sep 20, 2018 14:43
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SettingSun posted:It also sounds like you could have lived. If only two other rats hit you while you were dying an neither of them crit If you're within 5ft of a dying creature and attack it, that's an auto-crits, so they're always 2 failed Death Saves. Rats can only crit in that scenario.
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Sep 20, 2018 15:05
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Dragonatrix posted:If you're within 5ft of a dying creature and attack it, that's an auto-crits, so they're always 2 failed Death Saves. Rats can only crit in that scenario. drat. I hate being wrong. I always, always forget auto-crits to unconscious things. Probably because of my earlier point that I make creatures move to awake targets when I take out a character.
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Sep 20, 2018 15:10
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Arthil posted:Ah, great. The DM's are gonna be picky about Wave. "You may bring it, but we will be handling the weapon. So it may or may not do what you request it to do." Wow that's... wow. Automatic personality conflict, huh? poo poo idk bring a Vorpal Sword and hope you get lucky.
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Sep 20, 2018 16:57
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RC Cola posted:I had a con of 10. So 8 HP and I rolled a 2. I was attacked by 3 giant rats. They won initiative and one crit me. The other 2 hit me and I died. 
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Sep 20, 2018 17:05
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Arthil posted:Ah, great. The DM's are gonna be picky about Wave. "You may bring it, but we will be handling the weapon. So it may or may not do what you request it to do." Bring an Instant Fortress and just keep hurling it at everyone and screaming the command word over and over again.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:06
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Splicer posted:These posts make me sad Yeah is this normal for DMs or something? I'm pretty new myself and one of my players got wrecked inside the wolf pen in the goblin ambush part of LMoP and I just made up some poo poo that reasoned him barely escaping with his life instead of dying at level 1 in the first session. I can understand player death being important to enforce at one point especially with experienced parties but this just seems sorta mean.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:22
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Didn't monks in 4e have some kind of ki focus implement that was basically like a non-weapon piece of equipment you wore that basically allowed you to have all the benefits of having a weapon while punching dudes still? I completely forget. Anyway I dunno even as much as I like punching things as a monk I feel like I like using a staff or a spear or something just as much as a monk so it never bothered me that much. Unarmed damage was just those extra kicks and poo poo I throw in as a bonus action.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:23
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SettingSun posted:Now you make it sound like your DM wanted to murder you. Attacking dying PCs is just rude, if technically allowed. It also sounds like you could have lived. If only two other rats hit you while you were dying an neither of them crit, you still had one more chance to stabilize; a pretty trivial task if anyone else in your party was within moving distance of you. Okay so my guy went off on his own through two secret doors to ditch our party. I was solo and I had noticed a whole eaten out the side of a wooden coffin. He gave me ample warning to walk out of the room. I was just trying to not meta game since my new to adventuring bard wouldn't know that it means there are rats in there. Also I was going to have him 'escape' and roll up another character anyways since my current party is murder hobo and I made my bard to do RPing. The inflict wounds sucked but also he was rolling on roll20. He just got lucky. Also also a melee attack on you when you're unconscious is an auto crit, so those two rats gave me 4 death saving throws before my turn. My DM is usually good at balancing but we are running a 2e(I think?) module (lost city) that he adapted to 5e and isn't changing much about. And we are doing it with 3 people instead of 4.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:34
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acumen posted:Yeah is this normal for DMs or something? I'm pretty new myself and one of my players got wrecked inside the wolf pen in the goblin ambush part of LMoP and I just made up some poo poo that reasoned him barely escaping with his life instead of dying at level 1 in the first session. I can understand player death being important to enforce at one point especially with experienced parties but this just seems sorta mean. RC Cola posted:Okay so my guy went off on his own through two secret doors to ditch our party. I was solo and I had noticed a whole eaten out the side of a wooden coffin. He gave me ample warning to walk out of the room. I was just trying to not meta game since my new to adventuring bard wouldn't know that it means there are rats in there.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:41
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Glagha posted:Didn't monks in 4e have some kind of ki focus implement that was basically like a non-weapon piece of equipment you wore that basically allowed you to have all the benefits of having a weapon while punching dudes still? I completely forget. Anyway I dunno even as much as I like punching things as a monk I feel like I like using a staff or a spear or something just as much as a monk so it never bothered me that much. Unarmed damage was just those extra kicks and poo poo I throw in as a bonus action. They had a ki focus which acted like a cleric's holy symbol or a wizard's staff in the context of that system, an implement. The problem was that virtually all monk attacks were implements, but you could actually use an entirely separate system to execute punch-man attacks as a monk, and it was bad and not generally worth investing in because it did nothing to improve your implement attacks, which were typically your mainstay. This didn't prevent unprepared players from trying to invest in it since monks have traditionally been about the punchy, and then getting disheartened when it became clear that they weren't working as a character. Generally the 4E monk showed strong evidence of being re-designed halfway through development and was a mess unless you knew what the problems with it were. Tactically the monk had very good initiative and mobility, but usually not too much in the way of defenses because it was a Dex-based striker and most of its builds did not rely on Con. So if you had an initiative count that went: 1. Monk 2. A bunch of monsters 3. All your friends ...The monk stood a good chance of getting rekt, since its usual play was to move into burst range of as many monsters as possible. This was most apparent at low levels, where 4E is least forgiving.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:it's funny because in Ye Olden Dayes, everything dealt damage with a 1d6, but we've somehow actually backslid from that I liked this piece of design because it acknowledged that dangerous weapons are all going to kill you rather (equally) effectively, the difference is in circumstance. Serf posted:disqualified for being too good Disqualified for being too good as a martial.
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Sep 20, 2018 17:47
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Conspiratiorist posted:Wow that's... wow. Automatic personality conflict, huh? I know, right? Maybe it doesn't mean anything but if they're literally bringing it up I feel like it means they will deliberately try to dick me over. All of this for a scenario where I wouldn't even keep the weapon at the end anyway. Honestly if the other DM and most of the participants that are going weren't there I wouldn't have anything to do with this DM. Edit: Still hate how this guy words poo poo but supposedly so long as I don't anger the trident I'll be fine. *Rolls eyes* Also have more information on how the Tournament is being ran. Sounds like there's gonna be some fighting against monsters with teams we can choose, and after that it pushes through into a two team battle royale style, and then finally less people battle royal with the ability/item restrictions. Arthil fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Sep 20, 2018 |
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Sep 20, 2018 18:04
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Sodomy Hussein posted:They had a ki focus which acted like a cleric's holy symbol or a wizard's staff in the context of that system, an implement. The monk in the campaign I'm running in 4e is only level 4 so I probably haven't noticed any of the non-implement stuff yet. All the implement attacks seem punchy-kicky just with the added bonus that you could use a ki focus to boost your attack/dmg numbers with your fists instead of a weapon. Then at some point they just decided that weapons could be monk implements too didn't they? The 4e monk also had some added benefits with several powers NOT being close to your allies. Meaning you might often act first, and be encouraged to run into a pack of enemies by yourself to use a burst attack with an advantage from solo-ing them. So far he's managed to stay alive...
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Sep 20, 2018 18:24
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I've played a low level 4e monk, though it working fine for me is anecdotal. However, if you're having initiative problems, I feel bad for you son, got 99 problems and warlords can solve basically all of them. I did get to play with a warlord who had the "surprise rounds give you standard, move and minor", and then he blew an "everyone gets a free attack" because high level play is never that balanced.
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Sep 20, 2018 18:49
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The kensei monk I'm playing in an online game has been quite a bit of fun. Level 6 currently, working with longsword/longbow/whip. But you get the downside still of not being able to choose your unarmed strikes as a kensei weapon.
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Sep 20, 2018 18:53
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RC Cola posted:I had a con of 10. So 8 HP and I rolled a 2. I was attacked by 3 giant rats. They won initiative and one crit me. The other 2 hit me and I died. I've learned to not be attached to characters in games that start below level 3, and this is triply true if the DM forces to roll for HP. Actually if the DM forces roll for HP I just wouldn't play at all. No game is better than bad game. Arthil posted:The kensei monk I'm playing in an online game has been quite a bit of fun. Level 6 currently, working with longsword/longbow/whip. But you get the downside still of not being able to choose your unarmed strikes as a kensei weapon. Kensei Smite should've been 2dX martial dice, and the level 11 ability should've been to let you sub Kensei weapon attacks for Unarmed Strikes in Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows attacks. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 20, 2018 |
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Sep 20, 2018 18:53
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poorlifedecision posted:The monk in the campaign I'm running in 4e is only level 4 so I probably haven't noticed any of the non-implement stuff yet. All the implement attacks seem punchy-kicky just with the added bonus that you could use a ki focus to boost your attack/dmg numbers with your fists instead of a weapon. Then at some point they just decided that weapons could be monk implements too didn't they? Flavor-wise there's little separation. Mechanics-wise there are ways for monks to do weapon attacks that exist for some reason and don't tend to be worthwhile unless perhaps you are a bizarre multiclass. quote:The 4e monk also had some added benefits with several powers NOT being close to your allies. Meaning you might often act first, and be encouraged to run into a pack of enemies by yourself to use a burst attack with an advantage from solo-ing them. So far he's managed to stay alive... Right this is what I meant to say. At low levels where there are relatively few options for characters to escape trouble or set up alpha strikes it's a bit of an issue for monks. Gharbad the Weak posted:I've played a low level 4e monk, though it working fine for me is anecdotal. To be fair it is not my stance that the 4E monk is borked, but I would describe playing a monk as an uncharacteristically complex experience compared to some other classes. All of the psionic classes have bizarre little problems.
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Sep 20, 2018 19:25
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Psionics were not great. I thought monks were the best of the group, mostly because they didn't try to shove in that silly power point gimmick and stuck to the same resource system that all the other classes had. The power point thing was pretty clearly "older editions did it that way, so we'll do it that way too." Man, who even designed for that book? I did not realize how bad brutal barrage got if you got a damage roll in it, that should have been strictly and openly banned (if it wasn't already).
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Sep 20, 2018 20:24
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Psionics were not great. I thought monks were the best of the group, mostly because they didn't try to shove in that silly power point gimmick and stuck to the same resource system that all the other classes had. The power point thing was pretty clearly "older editions did it that way, so we'll do it that way too." Man, who even designed for that book? Battlemind is probably the best of the three power point classes, though it has some problems, too. (And Brutal Barrage should never have a damage roll. There are definitely ways to abuse vulnerabilities with it, however. And other non-abusive combos which give you miss damage and whatnot.)
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Sep 20, 2018 20:33
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Psionics were not great. I thought monks were the best of the group, mostly because they didn't try to shove in that silly power point gimmick and stuck to the same resource system that all the other classes had. The power point thing was pretty clearly "older editions did it that way, so we'll do it that way too." Man, who even designed for that book? Mike Mearls, lol.
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Sep 20, 2018 21:36
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I also have learned to not be attached to characters below level 3 but it's too bad because writing back stories used to be one of my favorite things to do. I still do it for later characters but it always feels tacked on.
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Sep 20, 2018 21:54
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The Seeker looks really cool at least, but I keep hearing that it's bad.
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Sep 20, 2018 21:55
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Rick posted:I also have learned to not be attached to characters below level 3 but it's too bad because writing back stories used to be one of my favorite things to do.  My middle ground is developing a fair idea of who the character is and what's their story, discussing it with the DM, but to not actually put it in writing beyond the barebones essentials until 5 or so sessions in when both a) I'm sure they won't just die to a bad roll and b) I've gotten a solid grasp of how the character works in play and the context of the group dynamics. That's when I start adding in the details and hooks and giving the editing pass to make sure it's coherent.
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Sep 20, 2018 22:01
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The Bee posted:The Seeker looks really cool at least, but I keep hearing that it's bad. It's less bad and more not good. It's also a controller, and the general advice I hear is to skip that role entirely for more entertaining combat. Never got to try it myself, sadly. It's a bit silly how fragile characters are at 1 compared to 3, especially as it's already a solved problem. I guess you could do a hardcore "anyone can die" campaign keeping everyone at level 1, but but like why
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Sep 20, 2018 22:46
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Kind of reminds me how the wildlings in ASOIAF don't name their babies till they're three.
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Sep 20, 2018 23:06
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Heya guys, I had a question I've got a group that are going to be running an evil Campaign, but I noticed that a lot of the Downtime actions don't really have evil options, does anyone have any resources that have things like "leading a cult" as downtime options?
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Sep 20, 2018 23:21
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The Bee posted:The Seeker looks really cool at least, but I keep hearing that it's bad. Essentials Hunter fills a similar role and is best played multiclassed to Seeker. There are very few actively terrible classes in 4e. Even the psionic ones are just bad in an "effective but boring" kind of a way. Seekers are below average, for sure, but not a drag on the party. They don't belong in a high-optimized group, but for normal players, sure. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 00:22
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Gharbad the Weak posted:Psionics were not great. I thought monks were the best of the group, mostly because they didn't try to shove in that silly power point gimmick and stuck to the same resource system that all the other classes had. The power point thing was pretty clearly "older editions did it that way, so we'll do it that way too." Man, who even designed for that book? Hands up who's surprised Anyone. Anyone at all. Don't be shy.
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Sep 21, 2018 00:39
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Splicer posted:Lead designer was Mike Mearles *raises monsterenvy's hand for him*
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Sep 21, 2018 00:41
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I never bought or used those books so I don't care at all who made them. Stop being a bully Arivia.
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Sep 21, 2018 00:44
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MonsterEnvy posted:I never bought or used those books so I don't care at all who made them. funny you bend over to defend him from literally any other criticism
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Sep 21, 2018 00:47
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Arivia posted:funny you bend over to defend him from literally any other criticism Do you consider saying "His name is not in the credits for this book, so he was not really involved here, so why are you bringing him up" to be defending him? Cause when I posted something about a book. You say "Mearls hosed up it up, does not care, or made stupid changes." And you think he somehow makes every single decision and choice about the D&D books. And other then this, I don't think I have talked about him in a long time. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 00:56
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Arivia posted:funny you bend over to defend him from literally any other criticism This comes off as homophobic, please don't
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Sep 21, 2018 00:58
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