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I think we can sympathize with Bojack because his parents were cunts and also be disgusted by his shameful behavior. It's complex and hosed up. Like life.
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Sep 21, 2018 14:23
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Alan_Shore posted:I think we can sympathize with Bojack because his parents were cunts and also be disgusted by his shameful behavior. It's complex and hosed up. Like life. Not just his parents. Lots of genuinely sad things happen to Bojack. But yes.
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Sep 21, 2018 14:26
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I don't know where this idea that you can sympathise and be repulsed by Bojack at the same time came from. That mixture of feelings was basically the last thing Diane said this season.
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Sep 21, 2018 14:27
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This is me, speaking directly to your screen, saying that I support that mixture of feelings. Edit: I wonder how many pages this would have gone on if I’d just started quoting sex robot. Billzasilver fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 14:28
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There’s a vast difference between BoJack and Walter White/Don Draper/Rick/etc. The latter are power/revenge fantasies for white men who feel spurned by the world. BoJack doesn’t fit that at all, partially perhaps because race is squishy as all hell in the Hollywoo universe, but also because the show is explicit about power + corruption. Although BoJack lashes out against people, most of his hatred is targeted inward and he expresses deep pain and remorse for some of the poo poo he’s done. Self-hatred isn’t necessarily a good thing either for fans, but ain’t nobody looking at BoJack and going “hell yeah, I want to do that.” So, I still don’t think Diane’s comments are meant to be meta. They speak to BoJack’s legitimate fears, who never wanted to do the show in the first place and now feels like perhaps he’s capitalizing on doing awful things, and they speak to Diane’s legitimate fears that she’s potentially guilty of what she’s accusing others of: supporting toxic men in a way that continues to put them in positions of power. The show is partially about restorative justice and what society does with people who do toxic things. This is the next part of that conversation. Rehab is the first time where BoJack isn’t running away or trying to just move on without actually addressing his behavior.
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Sep 21, 2018 14:47
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I don’t know, I think I would still classify Bojack’s persecution complex as a power fantasy. The idea that he’s the real victim here. Or as Philbert’s production assistant would say “everyone’s evil, it’s a conspiracy to destroy you, protect Gina, got it.” Speaking of that episode, what was the deal with that staircase in his drug trips?
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Sep 21, 2018 15:13
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Billzasilver posted:I don’t know, I think I would still classify Bojack’s persecution complex as a power fantasy. This is where everyone in the thread is going to ask: are you doing a bit?
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Sep 21, 2018 15:33
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:This is where everyone in the thread is going to ask: are you doing a bit? it absolutely is, that is literally the point of that sequence. “If only everyone understood how much I punish myself then they’d tolerate my atrocious behaviour” is absolutely apower fantasy.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:41
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I actually felt a little less judgmental about Bojack's actions this year vs. some of the previous seasons because so much of the worst stuff seemed inseparably bound up with an all-consuming drug addiction. Like, on the face of it strangling Gina is the worst thing he's ever done, and it probably reflects some inner misogyny/spitefulness/etc., but I also didn't feel like Bojack was remotely cognizant of what he was doing in that moment. I dunno, having watched people struggle with chemical dependency in real life makes me super hesitant to attribute all of a full-on addict's behavior to character defect. Incidentally while I'm not gonna act like PC is culpable for Bojack's actions, or even owes it to him to be a good friend at this point, holy poo poo was she an enabler this season. I just rewatched the first episode and while that speech she gives about "not being that person this time" sounds really upbeat and encouraging, in retrospect it is pretty insidious and the absolute last thing Bojack needed to hear at that moment.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:42
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Agreed. It is interesting that the strangling was technically the worst thing Bojack has ever done, but not really because he did it on the brink of insanity and has no memory at all. Maybe? And like you said, PC and everyone else is still covering for him. He did the minimum amount of strangling!
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Sep 21, 2018 15:46
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CoolCab posted:it absolutely is, that is literally the point of that sequence. “If only everyone understood how much I punish myself then they’d tolerate my atrocious behaviour” is absolutely apower fantasy. The show so explicitly undermines this concept at every turn that I can't possibly see how this applies.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:48
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Billzasilver posted:I feel like the show put this in as a real response to this crazy 2018 world we live in, where millions of fans actually don’t get it. They watch The Wire or Breaking Bad or Mad Men, and they genuinely think the wrong people are heroes and their flaws just make them more likable. So? You can't "fix" your audience, a show about how people don't change and you can't fix them can't maintain that's only true within its own fictional universe and then expect it to be different in the real one and come across as coherent.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:52
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i am the bird posted:The show so explicitly undermines this concept at every turn that I can't possibly see how this applies. This fits in with my original point. Lots of shows try to undermine their own power fantasies and main characters. It’s not always effective. House is another example I just remembered, if anyone still wants to talk about drug dependencies.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:57
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Billzasilver, take this from a person who recreationally argues in bad faith because I am an rear end in a top hat, you are not coming across well in a debate where when someone engages you in good faith and provides clear avenues of engagement, you cross your arms and go "Heh, look at this idiot!! Look at this dork! Heh! Obviously I'm right, what an idiot, wanting me to explain something! Ha!"
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Sep 21, 2018 15:57
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CoolCab posted:it absolutely is, that is literally the point of that sequence. “If only everyone understood how much I punish myself then they’d tolerate my atrocious behaviour” is absolutely apower fantasy. No, it's not. You do not understand what a power fantasy is. You can have a persecution complex and a power fantasy in the same psyche, I guess, but they're not one and the same and they're certainly not interchangeable. What you're describing is more like a weird martyr complex, that Bojack thinks his suffering allows him to elude any sense of personal responsibility. This is, of course, at odds with the idea of a male power fantasy, where the person in question desires having more power/responsibility than they actually have, often using skills (be they physical, social or mental) they don't have. Hence: power fantasy. Bojack's a remarkably passive character at times. It's what separates him from Draper/Sanchez/White. Remember the episode when we see inside Bojack's head and it's a pit of self-hatred and unescapable verbal self-critique? That's the opposite of a power fantasy. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 15:58
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WrathOfBlade posted:I actually felt a little less judgmental about Bojack's actions this year vs. some of the previous seasons because so much of the worst stuff seemed inseparably bound up with an all-consuming drug addiction. Like, on the face of it strangling Gina is the worst thing he's ever done, and it probably reflects some inner misogyny/spitefulness/etc., but I also didn't feel like Bojack was remotely cognizant of what he was doing in that moment. I dunno, having watched people struggle with chemical dependency in real life makes me super hesitant to attribute all of a full-on addict's behavior to character defect. I think it was a clever trick so the writers could have their cake and eat it too. It let them have simultaneously show Bojack making progress (hey, he's no longer doing monstrous things of his own volition/because he got bored and decided to go on a bender!) while still having a convenient drama hose they could tap when they needed to. I also like how it dovetails with the season's themes of criticizing the entrenched defense of toxic Hollywoo culture. Early on in the season someone drops the "I separate the actor from their work" line (I believe it was in regards to Vance?), which is exactly what Bojack fails to do in his drugged up fugue state.
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Sep 21, 2018 15:58
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i am the bird posted:There’s a vast difference between BoJack and Walter White/Don Draper/Rick/etc. The latter are power/revenge fantasies for white men who feel spurned by the world. BoJack doesn’t fit that at all, partially perhaps because race is squishy as all hell in the Hollywoo universe, but also because the show is explicit about power + corruption. Although BoJack lashes out against people, most of his hatred is targeted inward and he expresses deep pain and remorse for some of the poo poo he’s done. Self-hatred isn’t necessarily a good thing either for fans, but ain’t nobody looking at BoJack and going “hell yeah, I want to do that.” The show is lashing out against a tone/presentation of certain characters in prestige dramas (AND I AGREE) but they're trying to do it through Bojack, who was never written that way. Bojack is not an "antihero" like the whole Don Draper or Rick poo poo. Bojack is never, ever portrayed as cool or a hero. Taking down the bullshit antihero trope is great, but you can't do it with Bojack. He's not that guy. Not even for complicated identity reasons, just stuff like "he's drunk and binge eats and he's socially desperate with a poo poo body and it's been mentioned a bunch of ways that he's crap in bed".
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Sep 21, 2018 15:59
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Pick posted:The show is lashing out against a tone/presentation of certain characters in prestige dramas (AND I AGREE) but they're trying to do it through Bojack, who was never written that way. Bojack is not an "antihero" like the whole Don Draper or Rick poo poo. Bojack is never, ever portrayed as cool or a hero. Taking down the bullshit antihero trope is great, but you can't do it with Bojack. He's not that guy. People mistake sympathy for endorsement, I think.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:05
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Pick posted:Billzasilver, take this from a person who recreationally argues in bad faith because I am an rear end in a top hat, you are not coming across well in a debate where when someone engages you in good faith and provides clear avenues of engagement, you cross your arms and go "Heh, look at this idiot!! Look at this dork! Heh! Obviously I'm right, what an idiot, wanting me to explain something! Ha!" Thank you, but I’m not engaging in a good faith debate with a crazy person. Anyone else is fine.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:07
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:People mistake sympathy for endorsement, I think. I think that people are biting on a conflation that the show, well, committed. But it's a response to a real social issue that they don't have the right tools to dismantle.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:08
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Billzasilver posted:Thank you, but I’m not engaging in a good faith debate with a crazy person. Anyone else is fine. You are refusing to engage because you don't want to admit you actually don't understand basic media things like 'focusing on a character's sad horsey facial expressions while their former friend shouts at them makes the audience feel sad for them'. And you think a persecution complex is a power fantasy. We can amass a truly powerful bounty of the things you take pride in not understanding, while trying to own people for being 'bad fans' because they're more eloquent than you. It's remarkable, truly, and I'm happy to keep passing you the rope as you tie the knots around your neck.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:11
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Pick posted:The show is lashing out against a tone/presentation of certain characters in prestige dramas (AND I AGREE) but they're trying to do it through Bojack, who was never written that way. Bojack is not an "antihero" like the whole Don Draper or Rick poo poo. Bojack is never, ever portrayed as cool or a hero. Taking down the bullshit antihero trope is great, but you can't do it with Bojack. He's not that guy. Sex Robot is the antihero this show needs
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Sep 21, 2018 16:11
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Bojack is definitely an incredibly passive character for a protagonist. I mean, see the whole episode where Mr Peanutbutter's annual Halloween gatecrashing becomes something he protests at first but then looks forward to and enjoys, or that he basically has to be pushed into doing nearly anything. He's as much a fantasy in that he has more money than he'll ever know what to do with and can afford all the diversions, parties and substances he wants, and has plenty of women willing to have sex with him despite him being aforementioned crap in bed. But the show does go to lengths to demonstrate that's just as much more rope to hang himself with, as he manages little more than to maintain his misery and occasionally inflict it on those around him. I think more of the point is that show business does not encourage healthy relationships or attitudes, and is built on exploitation top to bottom.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:13
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Billzasilver posted:Sex Robot is the antihero this show needs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzO2mi4uHAs Actually this really was his arc.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:14
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One major difference between Bojack and the other shows is the lack of "gently caress yeah, that was awesome!" moments with Bojack. You cheer when Walter White blows up a drug boss' den with chemistry, you cheer when Rick builds a robot suit despite being a literal pickle. There are very few, if any, times you do that with Bojack.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think more of the point is that show business does not encourage healthy relationships or attitudes, and is built on exploitation top to bottom. Pretty well supported by everything but especially, as you noted, the Halloween episode (in this season, anyway). You see the Bojack character change in the background--including that, the first time, he actually does have a good time and only drinks moderately and is somewhat appreciative towards PC. He degrades and becomes less happy, I don't know, that's all pretty well explored and it's pitiful and pathetic. I mean, the primary antagonist of the show is Hollywoo.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:15
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Pick posted:The show is lashing out against a tone/presentation of certain characters in prestige dramas (AND I AGREE) but they're trying to do it through Bojack, who was never written that way. Bojack is not an "antihero" like the whole Don Draper or Rick poo poo. Bojack is never, ever portrayed as cool or a hero. Taking down the bullshit antihero trope is great, but you can't do it with Bojack. He's not that guy. You keep trying to read this as some deep meta cut but it's pretty clear that the reason it doesn't fit well is because it was never intended to. In-universe Bojack is a great stand-in for gritty antihero characters and the bad boy actors that play them; the Secretariat movie was explicitly all about that until studio meddling got ahold of it, and at the time Bojack was eating that poo poo up. The allegory only falls apart when you try to map it onto Bojack Horseman the Netflix TV show. Which imo is a good reason to not do that. (The comparison with Secretariat is a great showcase of Bojack's progress, too. Back in season 2 he knew on some level Secretariat was a terrible role model, see smoking scene, but he blissfully put on a happy facade and ignored any problematic aspects of himself and the character. Now he's starting to acknowledge his problems and is no longer comfortable with that kind of character. On that note, Flip's intensity and vocal delivery really really reminded me of Kelsey Jannings. I don't think that was an accident.)
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Sep 21, 2018 16:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzO2mi4uHAs Holy poo poo  Edit: in universe vs Netflix show is a really cool track I hadn’t thought of. Bojack seems a million times more famous and powerful compared to someone like Gina. Billzasilver fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 16:17
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Straight White Shark posted:I think it was a clever trick so the writers could have their cake and eat it too. It let them have simultaneously show Bojack making progress (hey, he's no longer doing monstrous things of his own volition/because he got bored and decided to go on a bender!) while still having a convenient drama hose they could tap when they needed to. One of the things that struck me this season is that PC comes across as really monstrous. Bojack never wanted to do the show, but does so entirely as a favor to her. When he (correctly) identities that playing this role is going to be harmful to his mental health she manages him to convince not to worry about it. When he is injured, she arranges for the doctor to sting him out on pain killers specifically so it doesn't effect the production schedule. When the same painkillers put him in a fugue state and he chokes his costar she is there to arrange cover for him that he doesn't really want. She has a high degree of complicity to all the terrible events this season.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:23
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:No, it's not. You do not understand what a power fantasy is. You can have a persecution complex and a power fantasy in the same psyche, I guess, but they're not one and the same and they're certainly not interchangeable. What you're describing is more like a weird martyr complex, that Bojack thinks his suffering allows him to elude any sense of personal responsibility. that is absolutely a power fantasy - it is quite literally demonstrable given weinstien literally did this. it is an atypical power fantasy, sure - but there are lots of wishes that need fulfilled. the universe dropping a literal baby in your lap to save that proves you’re a good person despite your continued lovely behaviour is a power fantasy to an almost absurd degree. the desire for the world to understand and judge you exclusively on your intent and not your action is arguably the most potent power fantasy imaginable, even.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:24
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CoolCab posted:that is absolutely a power fantasy - it is quite literally demonstrable given weinstien literally did this. it is an atypical power fantasy, sure - but there are lots of wishes that need fulfilled. the universe dropping a literal baby in your lap to save that proves you’re a good person despite your continued lovely behaviour is a power fantasy to an almost absurd degree. Its worth pointing out that a need to be pitied is one of the most consistent attributes in people with psychopathy. Because when a person is pitied they will be able to get away with a far great range of horrible behavior than is otherwise possible. Its where the stereotype of a domestic abuser who first beats their partner and then cries about how "they can't control themselves because they love that person too much" comes from. Pity gives permission they in a way nothing else does. I wouldn't call it a power fantasy, but I can definitely imagine there are lovely people out there who like watching Bojack to be reassured that they are not fundamentally bad in spite of their horrible behavior. The show has already pushed back against this multiple times though. Diana saying, "There is no deep down, all you are is the things you do". Todd declaring, "It's you, you are all the lovely things you do". And now Diana's speech before Bojack goes into rehab.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:38
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CoolCab posted:that is absolutely a power fantasy - it is quite literally demonstrable given weinstien literally did this. it is an atypical power fantasy, sure - but there are lots of wishes that need fulfilled. the universe dropping a literal baby in your lap to save that proves you’re a good person despite your continued lovely behaviour is a power fantasy to an almost absurd degree. You haven't described where the power aspect of these fantasies come from. The baby example you illustrate is just a fantasy. Your usage of the term power fantasy makes it so broad as to render it meaningless if 'any kind of fantasy where people think I'm good or understand me' can be considered a power fantasy as opposed to, say, self-pitying self-indulgence. You seem to mistake power for absolution or redemption. The "desire for the world to understand and judge you exclusively on your intent and not your action" is not a power fantasy. A power fantasy would be the "desire to be able to force the world to understand and judge you exclusively on your intent and not your action." Your idea means that Shinij Ikari, of all characters, is a host of power fantasies because his wish is for people to understand him without him putting in any effort (Wow, just like Bojack). That's not a power fantasy. The power fantasy is when Shinji says that, because no one has bothered to try and understand him, then they can all just die. I am, of course, open to seeing how Bojack's desire for other people to understand him is a power fantasy, if you're willing to explain -- but I feel like you won't be able to. (Weinstein also did more than just have power fantasies. He abused his power. Come on.)
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Sep 21, 2018 16:41
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I dont know posted:One of the things that struck me this season is that PC comes across as really monstrous. Bojack never wanted to do the show, but does so entirely as a favor to her. When he (correctly) identities that playing this role is going to be harmful to his mental health she manages him to convince not to worry about it. When he is injured, she arranges for the doctor to sting him out on pain killers specifically so it doesn't effect the production schedule. When the same painkillers put him in a fugue state and he chokes his costar she is there to arrange cover for him that he doesn't really want. She has a high degree of complicity to all the terrible events this season. she does, but i see this as two different things 1 - PC is complicit much like all of hollywoo is complicit in exploiting people and pushing them too far then demanding apologies when they lash out and act terribly, as if those people were not enabled, encouraged, or otherwise allowed to act terribly all on their own agency 2 - PC seems more monstrous since she spends so much time maintaining her own career and the career of others that she starts to stumble and act terribly when she pursues a goal that has nothing to do with her career
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Sep 21, 2018 16:47
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:You haven't described where the power aspect of these fantasies come from. The baby example you illustrate is just a fantasy. Your usage of the term power fantasy makes it so broad as to render it meaningless if 'any kind of fantasy where people think I'm good or understand me' can be considered a power fantasy as opposed to, say, self-pitying self-indulgence. You seem to mistake power for absolution or redemption. And of course, kind of the point is that Shinji is a neglected, abused teenager and basically a child soldier to whom no effort was put in to maintain his mental health by any of the adults in the room. The whole point of the show (I think) was kinda to demonstrate that your typical teenage giant mecha pilot would be in a horrible situation. (that said, I'm not sure teenagers are even that common for that genre? Also, Gundam's been taking that apart for decades) Back to Bojack though; it kinda DOES have a Weinstein figure though in Hank, who specifically gets away with it because too many people rely on him and no one wants to believe the victims. And the sex robot demonstrating the ludicrous lengths it takes for a wealthy connected sexual predator to actually get any kind of consequences. (and that it's typically a golden parachute) luxury handset posted:she does, but i see this as two different things While I'm sure she has enough independent wealth at this point to take some time off to be a single mother, PC is probably going to find later stages of parenthood hard. That said though, it'd be hard to explore those without a timeskip.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:00
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And of course, kind of the point is that Shinji is a neglected, abused teenager and basically a child soldier to whom no effort was put in to maintain his mental health by any of the adults in the room. The whole point of the show (I think) was kinda to demonstrate that your typical teenage giant mecha pilot would be in a horrible situation. (that said, I'm not sure teenagers are even that common for that genre? Also, Gundam's been taking that apart for decades) True. The thing about Bojack is that, he retreats to passive woe-is-me when things get really bad -- I'll leave the boat door open, it's not my fault she comes in; his excuses to Todd; what he says to Diane, and there's more I'm sure. The whole point of Bojack saying that he basically wishes for everyone to understand his pain because then they'd understand his side of things is that it's another example of how Bojack rejects his agency when he's confronted by responsibility. Bojack doesn't want to make people understand him, Bojack just kind of wants it to happen through some kind of self-pitying magic. It's just a fantasy. A power fantasy would be, like, if Bojack thought he could get up on stage and make an awesome speech that compels everyone to know his pain and forgive him for what he's done. Which is why there's the Todd speech, for example: it's not anything that happened to you, Bojack, it's your choice. But, of course, it's not just his choice, is it? Bojack was, and is, a product of his environment. Bojack doesn't have power fantasies. He has fantasies where he escapes from things, not fantasies where he makes things go away. Running away with Charlotte, running with the horses, people just somehow magically understanding him... But the core aspect of these is this aspect of powerlessness. Like learned helplessness. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 17:23
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That is very evident in how he approached the Herb situation also. It really sets up his relationship with Hollywoo as being an abusive relationship in an almost domestic way.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:27
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And of course he still insists that therapy 'doesn't work on him'. I'm not sure if that's part of the learned helplessness (it's not that he has a hard time opening up, he won't shut the hell up about his life story when given the floor) or simply taking one of the many terrible lessons his parents taught him to heart. Sad thing is, he did seem to be legitimately improving to an extent before filming Philbert started, but a fragile process was completely destroyed by an introduction to a new addiction under the guise of medicine for a legitimate problem. And well, he can join the club of like half of America.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:29
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:You haven't described where the power aspect of these fantasies come from. The baby example you illustrate is just a fantasy. Your usage of the term power fantasy makes it so broad as to render it meaningless if 'any kind of fantasy where people think I'm good or understand me' can be considered a power fantasy as opposed to, say, self-pitying self-indulgence. You seem to mistake power for absolution or redemption. the power is - and i really need to stress this here very, very obviously, good lord - the power to justify your behaviour no matter what it is. that fundamentally there is some invisible and intangible quality about you that means you're a good person regardless of your actions. do you sincerely believe that "to act without consequence" is not powerful? is that not the definition of power? "absolution" and "redemption" - in addition to being utterly meaningless buzzwords - are expressions of that power. it's okay that you did something bad - you're good now! consequences are over! you don't have to live with them at all! with some degree of irony "i don't know" is getting this and you're not - a psychopath has incredible power not because they're strong or tough or whatever but because they can construct a guiltless narrative for any behaviour and as such can do anything. when people want to be your dan draper or your walter white they're not just fantasising about the cool and terrible things they'll do they're fantasising about a version of themselves that do those things and live with it - not be driven insane by guilt, not be hounded endlessly by consequences that is the power fantasy. the rest is just an expression of that. quote:The "desire for the world to understand and judge you exclusively on your intent and not your action" is not a power fantasy. A power fantasy would be the "desire to be able to force the world to understand and judge you exclusively on your intent and not your action." quote:Your idea means that Shinij Ikari, of all characters, is a host of power fantasies because his wish is for people to understand him without him putting in any effort (Wow, just like Bojack). That's not a power fantasy. The power fantasy is when Shinji says that, because no one has bothered to try and understand him, then they can all just die. i would literally hammer actual nails into my actual, personal testicles before arguing with you about anime. i cannot stress enough how sincerely i say that. quote:I am, of course, open to seeing how Bojack's desire for other people to understand him is a power fantasy, if you're willing to explain -- but I feel like you won't be able to. bojack murdered his surrogate daughter, he got a bunch of underaged kids dangerously intoxicated to the point they needed hospitalization, drives intoxicated by default and deliberately causes car accidents because he wants to get high, he put his dementia riddled mother into the cheapest and most unpleasant home he could find - i could keep going for hours but he could keep going forever. putting aside he only gets away with these things by abusing his financial or social power - he keeps doing these things because he thinks he's the victim and as such his behaviour is justified . again, that is almost textbook psychopathy and is an incredible expression of power! season 4 went way too far in the sympathy direction (or at least the audience read it that way) - he did absolutely nothing towards correcting his behaviour other than feeling lovely about it - which gave him the justification to act even worse! people are saying it was preachy and too blatant while also thinking "dang, he was almost redeemed it's so sad he was back on his bullshit" - as if he ever stopped. i feel like if they wanted you to get it they were way too subtle - they needed to put "IF YOU DO NOT STOP BEING lovely YOU'LL NEVER STOP BEING A lovely PERSON NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU FEEL" in gigantic flaming letters.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:33
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Power is principally about the ability to get away with things, not the ability to do things. We already have a great deal of physical power over other people and the world in general. It's not for lack of ability that our power is limited. The average person has dozens or hundreds of opportunities to murder random people on any given day, what more ability do we really need? It's not lack of ability that prevents us from doing whatever we want, it's fear of the repercussions (a very Sartre idea, which amuses me considering how many jabs the show throws that way.) Conversely, most power fantasies (beyond juvenile wishes for actual superpowers) boil down to wanting freedom from repercussions. Look at any given Mafia movie. They're all power fantasies, but the Mafia has no superpowers. It has something even better: being untouchable. The ultimate expression of power is nobody is gonna gently caress with me.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:35
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:44 |
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The broad definition of “power” is discrete from the more restricted meaning of “power” in the context of the term “power fantasy”.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:40
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