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Senethro
May 18, 2005

I unironically think I'm Garret, Master Thief.
I can't believe how powerful religious Cravers are. I had only 6 systems (and 4 outposts) on Turn 60 when I get the all important Force 50% Approval Law and then suddenly charge to 28 systems and Conquest victory on turn 112. Instantly assimilating captured systems and then shuttling a couple of Craver pops to enslave them gives instant returns on your warmongering.

Also more 4X could stand to make their factions as unique as Fall From Heaven did. I think thats what I like about Amplitude.

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Prism
Dec 22, 2007

yospos
Man, I miss Fall from Heaven.

Maybe I'll try to install it again if I can find it.

baw
Nov 5, 2008

RESIDENT: LAISSEZ FAIR-SNEZHNEVSKY INSTITUTE FOR FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY
trumpè

edit

well that wasnt meant for this thread

Anyway this game is on sale and I'm thinking about buying it but the only other game I really like is CK2 and the more I read about it the more I think it's not really up my alley. My favorite part of CK2 is the stories that you make and it seems like 4x games (and even EU4) aren't really good for that sort of thing.

baw fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 8, 2018

El_Elegante
Jul 3, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Biscuit Hider
I picked up EL on the weekly sale, but it’ll probably be a while before I get to it.

I’ve really enjoyed ES2 and I’ve finally put my finger on what’s bothered me about it: heroes just don’t feel powerful. As governors the incremental improvements are nice, same with fleet commanders. The economic behemoths can make a huge difference in systems, which has the effect I’m expecting. Heroes feel like they should add more to the texture of the game than they currently do.

El_Elegante
Jul 3, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Biscuit Hider
Is anyone interested in a weekend game of ES2?

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Apparently a new faction is around the corner?

The Deleter
May 22, 2010
For ES2? There's meant to be some stealth ghosts or something, but I've not been paying much attention.

IAmTheRad
Dec 11, 2009

Goddammit this Cello is way out of tune!
They added a harmony hero with DLC (and more music) and also the Celestial Worlds added a new questline that uses the unique planets for something.

Because before they had no point besides just being unique.

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

IAmTheRad posted:

They added a harmony hero with DLC (and more music) and also the Celestial Worlds added a new questline that uses the unique planets for something.

Because before they had no point besides just being unique.

They also did a balance patch that helped out a bit and tweaked several empires' mechanics. Biggest for me is giving the Lumeris a way to mitigate Dust Inflation, which has always baffled me as a mechanic because it punishes the Lumeris so harshly. I'm hoping they continue to get tweaks because they're still pretty subpar, as much as I enjoy playing them. Hopefully they'll benefit some from the Espionage system.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
My favorite tweak was that they made it so Riftborn actually get bonus population capacity on Sterile planets. That was always a little weird that they didn't.

On the other hand, it also made me re-realize how much I hate manually building every single pop. I wish you could just set it to continuously build them until full or something.

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

Clarste posted:

My favorite tweak was that they made it so Riftborn actually get bonus population capacity on Sterile planets. That was always a little weird that they didn't.

On the other hand, it also made me re-realize how much I hate manually building every single pop. I wish you could just set it to continuously build them until full or something.

This is why I'm generous with the meat-pop, and don't skimp on food improvements with them.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
I'm actually kinda pissed it took this long for Riftborn to have more pop slots on sterile planets. Like, drat dude, them preferring lifeless worlds is like their whole gimmick.

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

toasterwarrior posted:

I'm actually kinda pissed it took this long for Riftborn to have more pop slots on sterile planets. Like, drat dude, them preferring lifeless worlds is like their whole gimmick.

To be fair, I think they were right to be worried about giving riftborn extra slots on steriles because of just how absurd their pop bonus is.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

The Unlife Aquatic posted:

To be fair, I think they were right to be worried about giving riftborn extra slots on steriles because of just how absurd their pop bonus is.

True, but the math working out in favor of more pop slots regardless just made Riftborn terraforming more confusing than it had to be.

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

Their bug squashing and balance in general has been hit or miss since release.

There's an animation error with Lumeris large slug turrets that's been in since release and I guess no one uses that combination ever so it's still there.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

Have you reported it or others?

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

Yep.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
So I haven't played any of the Endless Series before but I've always heard good things about Endless Legend and it's $20 for the endless legend collection in the steam sale.

Worth getting at this point? Any basic tips? Any must have mods, that sort of thing.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

The Iron Rose posted:

So I haven't played any of the Endless Series before but I've always heard good things about Endless Legend and it's $20 for the endless legend collection in the steam sale.

Worth getting at this point? Any basic tips? Any must have mods, that sort of thing.

No mods that i know of but it's totally worth getting. The DLC each adds new systems to it to round it all out, each of which is pretty great (and usually also has a new faction to take advantage of it). Give me a second and I'll try to find my effortpost of tips from before.

edit: here:

Speedball posted:

There should be a few effortposts in this very thread linked in the OP but the basics are:

1. Unlike Civ, you can't research everything. Even older techs get more expensive as you keep researching stuff. So prioritize. Also older-tier stuff tends to be more essential while later-tier stuff is more specialized.

2. Pursue your Main Faction quest to the best of your ability. It usually unlocks special nice stuff for you and is one of the paths to the ending of the game. Two, in fact. (The Wonder Ending requires you to build this gigantic thing that takes a buttload of production and time to finish, but once it's done, you win instantly, while the Quest ending requires a lot of running around to gather spaceship parts to get the hell off the planet).

3. Every faction is balanced by having one thing they do way, way better than everyone else. Wild Walkers are great at building stuff, etc. But you can tap into the strengths of other factions by buying heroes of other races; their racial abilities are pretty powerful either as battlefield generals or governors of a city. Get the Mercenary Market tech early on so you can buy heroes. Oh, and generally speaking, Cultist heroes make the BEST governors overall since they're geared towards maxing the productivity of a single, high-population city.

4. Heroes level up faster the more units they have under their command, they get XP per turn based on their minions. In a large formation as an army, or as a bunch of units in a garrison of the city they're a governor of. (Also, general heroes level up by killing stuff and searching ruins, and governor heroes level up by building stuff). The most important skill a hero can have is at the top center of the skill tree; it's called Cold Operator and winter-proofs their army/city, which is IMPORTANT since winter cripples armies and cities.

5. Approval. Unlike Civ 5, happiness is sort of a mix of global and local. Individual cities' Approval affects their Food and Industry, and the average happiness of your empire determines bonus Science and Dust. Approval goes down whenever you expand or overpopulate, but there are three ways to buff it up. One is by building districts so that one is next to three others; the negative approval for expansion starts turning positive. Another is by researching and building approval-boosting buildings like sewers and city markets; these are nice because they have bonus effects that kick in if your approval is already high, so they're never redundant. The third is luxury resources:

6. Luxury resources! Unlike Civ, you collect specific amounts of them per turn based on your extractors (or as lucky finds in quests and stuff) and you then manually click on them in the empire screen to burn them on a temporary boost. They all have different effects, but the collective one they all have is boosting approval. The more cities you have, the more luxuries you need to burn for a boost.

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

The Iron Rose posted:

So I haven't played any of the Endless Series before but I've always heard good things about Endless Legend and it's $20 for the endless legend collection in the steam sale.

Worth getting at this point? Any basic tips? Any must have mods, that sort of thing.

There's the Endless Legend Community Patch, which seeks to make "improvements to the game like fixing bugs, modifying the UI and (my personal favorite) improving the AI." But other than that, I can't really think of any mods for the game.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

The Iron Rose posted:

So I haven't played any of the Endless Series before but I've always heard good things about Endless Legend and it's $20 for the endless legend collection in the steam sale.

Worth getting at this point? Any basic tips? Any must have mods, that sort of thing.

EL with dlcs for $20 is a great buy. The system are a little different to other 4X games, but the game itself plays wonderfully with a very strong narrative (and game-bending racial mechanics) that makes every new playthrough unique. Totally worth the buy if the trailer seems even remotely interesting!

Shart Carbuncle
Aug 4, 2004

Star Trek:
The Motion Picture
I'd love to see Amplitude try their hand at a space exploration game along the lines of Escape Velocity, Star Control 2 or Space Rangers. It would be fun to get a more intimate view of the batshit Endless Space setting, and I think it would play to their strengths as storytellers. Dungeon of the Endless was such a cool experiment, and I had hoped it would lead to more varied, smaller games from them.

Admittedly, an exploration-based game is never a small undertaking, so it's a gamble. Maybe that genre died out for a reason!

Munkaboo
Aug 5, 2002

If you know the words, you can join in too
He's bigger! faster! stronger too!
He's the newest member of the Jags O-Line crew!
https://www.wingamestore.com/product/7007/Endless-Space-2/

ES2 for $10 - all time low from what I can see on isthereanydeal

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys
Has anyone tried out the ES2 unique planets expansion yet? I'm thinking of grabbing it this weekend.

Knightsoul
Dec 19, 2008
Yeah, as always Amplitude made a great expansion: the new additions (especially the Academy quest) are awesome. Endless Space 2 is really in a great shape now with all the dlc's added.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
There's certainly a lot more content, but I don't see anything in the DLCs that fix any of ES2's major flaws

Surprise Giraffe
Apr 30, 2007
1 Lunar Road
Moon crater
The Moon
Decided to give ES2 another try with the new expansions and lost an hour and a half to it. Feels a lot more fleshed out at this point than at launch, there's loads to keep you clicking but the gameplay's still really slick.

The music and art style are something else, particularly with the ES1 remixes they recently added. I don't think I've actually heard video game music so good.

prometheusbound2
Jul 5, 2010
Endless Legend is my favorite 4x of all time. I bought Endless Space 2 in Early Access and have played it sporadically through its launch, and there's a lot to like about it. But I'm finding the diplomatic AI is kind of ruining the experience for me. It seems the AI is mercurial to say the least. On one turn it will declare us good friends and express hope that we can be allies, 5 turns later it declares us enemies-with little to no interaction on my part to support the change. Perhaps my automated explorers are flying through their space and angering them? But it seems the AI can distinguish between civilian and military ships. I also have AIs that are much weaker than I am suddenly declare war on me. The tooltip says they're stronger than me, but I'm leagues ahead of them in system size, ships, and technology, and when war actually breaks out I usually end up taking several of their systems and they end up surrendering. Perhaps the AI is hardcoded to be militaristic ally hostile if you possess systems they want?

The other major downer for me is ground combat. I love the manpower mechanic and the fact that there aren't discrete transport fleets. But I find that the AI always uses the draft option when invaded and the results is it takes dozens of turns to take a planet. I get why there's this mechanic, but it makes invading a system simply tedious and time consuming. Is there some way to quickly end invasions and preventing it from turning into 12 turns of the same screen popping up over and over again? Even if there were an auto-attack/auto-repeat button I think the system would be better.

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005

恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー
It's been a while since I played, but iirc there's a few techs that let you leverage more manpower per fight, that plus the 'blitz' option can usually take a system in a few turns. The major holdups are if the AI ever builds defensive buildings, which it fortunately doesn't do everywhere. When you hit a speedbump, leave one ship there seiging, while the rest move on fast-capping the outer rim system elsewhere. Also tanks; by the time you're ready to start murdering you probably have tanks faster than they do (certainly well before airplanes), so going 100% tanks and push the tank upgrades really really makes things one-sided for a while.

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

Serephina posted:

It's been a while since I played, but iirc there's a few techs that let you leverage more manpower per fight, that plus the 'blitz' option can usually take a system in a few turns. The major holdups are if the AI ever builds defensive buildings, which it fortunately doesn't do everywhere. When you hit a speedbump, leave one ship there seiging, while the rest move on fast-capping the outer rim system elsewhere. Also tanks; by the time you're ready to start murdering you probably have tanks faster than they do (certainly well before airplanes), so going 100% tanks and push the tank upgrades really really makes things one-sided for a while.

Yeah there is basically no point to ever use infantry once you have Tanks. Only in the late late game are they even worth considering again.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug
there's going to be a beta test for the next expansion soon.

https://twitter.com/Amplitude/status/1072170603828916225

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010

"The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

uber_stoat posted:

there's going to be a beta test for the next expansion soon.

https://twitter.com/Amplitude/status/1072170603828916225

Man I glanced at this real fast and initially misread it. My first thought was, "goddamn, there's another Endless Legend expansion being released?!"

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...



i'm thinking of picking up endless space 2 and maybe an expansion along with it. it looks like the vaulters one is pretty well-received but the supremacy one is eh. i'm curious what other opinions are, even if overall the vaulters one seems more along the lines of what i'll enjoy anyways in terms of added content.

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars
People are really salty about the game's nukes (which are added by Supremacy) but behemoths are a great addition for tall civs because they're a lot more than just 'fite gud' (and infact using them for that is pretty much a huge waste) and if you like tall military factions in 4Xes the Hissho are very fun to play.

(Both the Vaulters and Hissho are very tall factions)

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Yeah, behemoths have economic functions too, which I really appreciate.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

drat I just heard about the closed beta now...

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...



definitely enjoying the chill vibe endless space 2 has. i'm not entirely sure if there's a way to 'assign' population to stuff to make it build/happen faster yet because i remember something similar being in endless legend forever ago when i played that. i'm slowly getting back into the saddle, though. feels like i jumped into the deep end of a pool.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011

Johnny Joestar posted:

definitely enjoying the chill vibe endless space 2 has. i'm not entirely sure if there's a way to 'assign' population to stuff to make it build/happen faster yet because i remember something similar being in endless legend forever ago when i played that. i'm slowly getting back into the saddle, though. feels like i jumped into the deep end of a pool.

You can shuffle pops between planets, and each planet generally has different multipliers for resources, including Industry. So if you have hot planets (arid, desert, lava, etc.), you might be able to squeeze a turn or two of production faster by shuffling pops to them.

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars
Yeah, you can always mouse over pops to see what they specialize in doing.

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Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...



toasterwarrior posted:

You can shuffle pops between planets, and each planet generally has different multipliers for resources, including Industry. So if you have hot planets (arid, desert, lava, etc.), you might be able to squeeze a turn or two of production faster by shuffling pops to them.

oh, good. i knew i could shuffle them around but the basic tutorial stuff hadn't really touched on that being the means to accomplish that. thanks for the help!

e: i see my problem. my main two starting planets which i was shuffling between had very little difference in what resources they provide so i wasn't seeing any notable difference. once i can colonize an arid planet nearby i can start producing more industry which should provide a notable benefit.

Johnny Joestar fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Dec 27, 2018

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