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Lemon-Lime posted:Unless you mean something different, it's about as far from "meta-dependent" as possible because it's entirely matchup-dependent. The only "meta" characters are the 4-5 characters that are clearly a bit too strong, and they're all getting hit with the nerf bat as part of this Kickstarter. Sorry, yeah, the idea of learning matchups is synonymous with learning a meta for my tcg addled mind. I realize this is pretty unreasonable. ;_; e: let me clarify a little, I like learning how a "deck" plays, I like learning how different decks play, I don't like learning how deck A needs to play deck B specifically, as opposed to how deck A needs to play generally. I recognize learning matchups is a huge part of most competitive games, it just feels bad to me? Anniversary fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 02:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I would say "finally" but I would also be far more confident in saying that if they were using an established system rather than making their own. It's incredible how every game those guys make -- seemingly no matter who they work with -- has great atmosphere and lore and absolute dumpster-tier gameplay. I agree that their track record with mechanics is pretty bad but I don't think I'd be interested in a sunless sea setting book for a generic RPG system either. Basically they need someone who is good at writing RPGs to do some mechanics for them and hope they escape the Failbetter Curse
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Sep 23, 2018 02:29
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I think it's not unfair to say that a big part of BattleCON is learning different matchups, yeah, because there's like a hundred characters and while they all have the same basic spread of moves each of them also has a set of unique spins they put on those moves plus their own personal special abilities and so you can spend a bunch of hours learning the ins and outs of one particular 1v1 matchup, then sit down and play against a character you've never seen before and get wrecked because they pulled out some crazy bullshit you had no idea was awaiting you. Like I said, it seems like a game that benefits strongly from being deeply committed to learning the ins and outs of it which appeals to one part of my brain, but another part just finds that sort of thing way too exhausting these days. If BattleCON had existed when I was 16 and deeply into Magic and I had the cards from numerous sets virtually memorized and could put decks together in my head I'd have probably been all over it, but like an RTS player who got too old to handle the high-end APM demands of competitive play I don't think I'd ever really be more than a casual dabbler these days.
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Sep 23, 2018 02:31
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I'm kind of curious as to what the Failbetter Curse is (other than great fluff tied to poo poo mechanics). What happened to that one card-based dungeon diving game they were working on at one point? It wasn't tied to FL but I played it once and it was kind of cool.
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Sep 23, 2018 02:44
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Leraika posted:I'm kind of curious as to what the Failbetter Curse is (other than great fluff tied to poo poo mechanics).
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Sep 23, 2018 02:45
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Guys I finally put together an adventure front for the party that I'm happy with and I am super loving pumped to see what happens.
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Sep 23, 2018 02:57
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:that's all I meant (and specifically Catfish's comment about it holding regardless of who they work with) Yeah. Looking over it it feels kind of half-finished? Barebones at best. Then again, I'm not familiar with Skies like I am with Sea and FL so maybe I'm missing a bit. e: but I still definitely want to run it at some point, though probably with some refluffing to work with FL proper. Leraika fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 03:05
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So the glorious revelation of John Wick's Santa Vaca seems to be up for sale on DTRPG. I didn't say "available", though, because the customer comments underneath are exclusively people saying "Hey, I bought this but I get an error when I try to download it." The preview is long-ish, but it's taken up entirely by that preening self-congratulatory essay he posted on his website. the top of the product description posted:For some reason or another, I was thinking, “Could I change D&D without changing the character sheet?” oh my god dude
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Sep 23, 2018 03:44
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Santa Vaca, really?
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Sep 23, 2018 03:48
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That Old Tree posted:oh my god dude Are you not impressed?! vvv I don't. vvv
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Sep 23, 2018 03:49
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^^^^^ Google Translate is your dark revelation, my friend!Plutonis posted:Santa Vaca, really?  do you get it!?!?! That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 03:49
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Say what you will about Strike!, love it or hate it, but at least Jimbozig realized that Sacred BBQ was kind of a bad name.
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Sep 23, 2018 03:51
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That Old Tree posted:So the glorious revelation of John Wick's Santa Vaca seems to be up for sale on DTRPG. I didn't say "available", though, because the customer comments underneath are exclusively people saying "Hey, I bought this but I get an error when I try to download it." honestly up until the last paragraph of "and i'm going to make it basically unparseable" i was kinda down with the idea as a thought experiment.
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Sep 23, 2018 03:56
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That Old Tree posted:^^^^^ Google Translate is your dark revelation, my friend! Yeah I did that after realizing it was the name you meant. My bad. vvv 
Anniversary fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 03:58
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Elfgames posted:honestly up until the last paragraph of "and i'm going to make it basically unparseable" i was kinda down with the idea as a thought experiment. Everything about John Wick would be a lot more bearable (and probably less well-known) if he didn't roll around on the ground sucking his own dick about it. Like, I thought he'd largely gotten over himself after the 7th Sea 2E reboot success, because he made this really touching, empathetic post thanking everyone for their support, and then didn't act like John Wick for two years after that. But looking back it seems like that's just because he wasn't saying anything, just taking a back seat while a pretty great team filled out the Kickstarter rewards. And now the money (and attention) are running out, I guess. Anniversary posted:Yeah I did that after realizing it was the name you meant. My bad. No bad perceived! That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 04:04
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i mean of course i'd enjoy if the project wasn't a form of autofellatio but the whole "i'm gonna make it lovely and unreadable" part ruins the experiment because it obfuscates the data
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Sep 23, 2018 04:12
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tokenbrownguy posted:loving Awesome Pendragon Words This was a great effort post and I hope you post more about your campaign in the future.
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Sep 23, 2018 04:14
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This 'John Wick going to D&D for a quick buck' seems like a replay of what happened in 2000-2001. Then he was pissed that Orkworld wasn't the blistering success he expected coming off of L5R and he put out a bitter post about how he was going to get his revenge on lovely old D&D by using WotC to make himself some money. By putting out d20 content. As if that wasn't exactly what WotC wanted. Now I can't help but feel like we're seeing a similarly rushed (although I could be wrong on that end) D&D clone thrown out to make some money at a time when the rumor is that there are problems with 7th Sea. It feels familiar, but I could be way off base.
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Sep 23, 2018 04:37
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Houses of the Blooded was also John Wick making a game in direct response to D&D being D&D. For all the talk of people in this thread having D&D PTSD Wick actually seems like he just can't fuckin get over Dungeons & Dragons already.
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Sep 23, 2018 04:41
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Leraika posted:I'm kind of curious as to what the Failbetter Curse is (other than great fluff tied to poo poo mechanics). It's the belief that grinding = good mechanics. Failbetter gameplay usually fails by forcing players into increasingly long RNG-filled grinds to make any progress. Fortunately, grinding for specific pieces of loot mostly doesn't exist in TTRPGs. Mostly, because Kingdom Death manages to have it.
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Sep 23, 2018 06:40
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I've had lots of fun in Sunless Sea, honestly. No speed or fuel mods needed. Yes, you start off very fragile, and yes, overreaching can cost you your captain and ship, and yes, it is frustrating to have to go through stories you've already done because your last captain died before completing them but you still need those resources those stories give you. Those are all valid complaints. But I don't know how you'd remove those without turning the setting into a toothless little thing instead of a nightmare sea infested with monsters. e: in fairness, the zubmarine expansion made the game slightly more forgiving because a lot of the undersea ports have fuel and supplies at fair prices.
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Sep 23, 2018 09:16
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paradoxGentleman posted:I've had lots of fun in Sunless Sea, honestly. No speed or fuel mods needed. I mean this sounds a lot like the argument some people make that you can't have a truly epic roleplaying experience without the risk of random instadeath on every dice roll and having to individually track your coinage to see how many dry rations and arrows you can afford. I'm pretty sure people have figured out how to make video games that aren't full of tedious grindy busywork that still feel tense and engaging.
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Sep 23, 2018 09:21
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Kai Tave posted:I mean this sounds a lot like the argument some people make that you can't have a truly epic roleplaying experience without the risk of random instadeath on every dice roll and having to individually track your coinage to see how many dry rations and arrows you can afford. I'm pretty sure people have figured out how to make video games that aren't full of tedious grindy busywork that still feel tense and engaging. I play videogames that don't have that mechanic, and I enjoy them, but I also enjoy Sunless Sea. Also nothing about Sunless Sea can be honestly referred to as "grinding", come on. "Fetch quests", maybe, with you having to find the ingredients and materials for the various quests that your captain is saddled with, but not grinding. I didn't really feel I was just a messenger boy, though? The writing went a great way towards making me feel like a cool captain, juggling many projects and plans I dunno what to tell you. I'm just reporting my feelings on the game.
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Sep 23, 2018 09:26
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That Old Tree posted:Like, I thought he'd largely gotten over himself after the 7th Sea 2E reboot success, because he made this really touching, empathetic post thanking everyone for their support, and then didn't act like John Wick for two years after that. But looking back it seems like that's just because he wasn't saying anything, just taking a back seat while a pretty great team filled out the Kickstarter rewards. And now the money (and attention) are running out, I guess. Yeah, a lot of 7th Sea's strengths are on having a whole team working on it, not just solo Wick. Not to discount him, but he's better when there's somebody around to put an arm on his chest and say "Whoa there." It's funny that a lot of people credit him for Legend of the Five Rings because he was such a strong defining voice on it, but it also A) wasn't his creation and B) the original RPG rulebook required another half-dozen writers massaging it into something marketable to the RPG mainstream. In any case, John Wick has held a serious grudge against D&D for pretty much as long as I've seen him writing, and a lot of his criticisms are legit but misplaced. A lot of D&D's strengths are structural, not thematic or conceptual, and that seems to be the point that I often feel he misses. You can rail about dungeon-raiding being home invasion all you like, but it also provides a clear structure for the game that's easy for new players to pick up on and for old players to analyze and refine.
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Sep 23, 2018 14:20
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Alien Rope Burn posted:You can rail about dungeon-raiding being home invasion all you like I have never heard this expression. It is evocative.
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Sep 23, 2018 14:26
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EverettLO posted:This 'John Wick going to D&D for a quick buck' seems like a replay of what happened in 2000-2001. Then he was pissed that Orkworld wasn't the blistering success he expected coming off of L5R and he put out a bitter post about how he was going to get his revenge on lovely old D&D by using WotC to make himself some money. By putting out d20 content. As if that wasn't exactly what WotC wanted. The thing was, he wasn't mad because Orcworld failed, he was mad because he released it at GenCon the same year as 3e came out, and shocking everyone was more interested in the first new edition of D&D in 10 years than his thing.
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Sep 23, 2018 14:51
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Anniversary posted:I have never heard this expression. It is evocative. It's a very old criticism (I can think of it being brought up in the original GURPS Fantasy) that dungeon adventuring can boil down to murderous raiders with genocidal notions marching into a community to kill them and take their stuff. And bad dungeon writing can be absolutely that, particularly when combined with the tendency for "evil" fantasy races being described as dark or swarthy or the like. But at the same time there are a lot of different conceits you can use for a dungeon or monster that avoid that or at least remove that as the text of your fiction. Wick himself made goblins a creation of demonic evil in L5R, where it was profoundly unlikely that they might ever be redeemed or even just live in any sort of peace with humanity - thus allowing samurai to wander around collecting goblin heads as a rite of allegiance without having to worry too much about "is this right?" Maybe Orkworld was a reaction to having done that, I don't know. I wouldn't call Orkworld a "failure" - it was pretty successful for an indie RPG back before we'd really defined that kind of thing - but it was never going to Legend of the Five Rings or 7th Sea. It was an intensely niche and personal game, but most players aren't going to jump at being part of a disempowered minority in a fantasy world just looking to win little, clever victories to survive one more winter.
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Sep 23, 2018 15:05
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Oh just another variant of the Murderhobo meme? Sort of?
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Sep 23, 2018 15:07
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I didn't mean to suggest that Orkworld was a failure. It is well written even if it is mechanically forgettable. The way elves are portrayed in particular has stuck with me. As I recall it won some awards. It was clearly not the runaway success he was hoping for, though.
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Sep 23, 2018 15:17
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So hey, I've actually got Santa Vaca. Turns out you can get it from johnwickpresents.com and you get a link that works. It doesn't close the download properly, that would be too much to ask, but most browsers can handle that nowadays. The first 7 pages out of 80 are the front matter and a reprint of the blog post, with a sidebar added saying that he has actually played all versions of D&D except 4e, because he couldn't find anyone who wanted to play it. The wonderful new dice mechanic is: roll under stat+skill. The only interesting bit is that you also gain "extras" based on the absolute value on the dice, which let you either apply system bonuses, narrate extra facts about what happened, or add points to the "hero pool" which can be drawn from by any player for an extra 1d6 per point on any roll. Also, these are called saving throws for no reason other than to be controversial. If you roll exactly the target number you get a crit, and double your extras, which could do nothing if you didn't have any. There's an example of a character rolling to jump across a gap and rolling a success with two extras. He uses the extra narration to declare that he fails the jump, but lands of the balcony of a friend's bedroom who helps him hide from the guards. I had to check that I wasn't reading Bear World for that example, given how little sense it makes and the fact that's at least 5 facts. Oh, the GM gets Screw The Players points, too. They get 1 per player at the start of a session and spending one sets the target for a roll to a flat 5. It's also suggested that the GM could use points to add complications to the scene. As with all systems like that, the maximum level of complication that the GM can place in a scene without spending points is of course never addressed. Character generation: you pick one of four fixed stat blocks, each of which has a name to identify what it represents (I like that). You pick a background, which gives you a bonus ability and a random flaw, a narrative power-up a la 5e (I like those, and according to the appendices Wick does too) and a special action that is taken when the party rests (I like that). You then pick a class, except it's called a Guild, and the Guilds have names that don't match the classes. Fighters are the "Blacksmiths Guild", Wizards are the "Bookmakers Guild", and Thieves are the "Clockmakers Guild". Guilds give you initial skill loadouts and a proficiency modifier, except that the proficiency modifier is represented as a "guild skill" which can be added in addition to another skill to a roll's target number. It also says you can make up your own skills if you want to, with no rules for subsets or supersets. Because there's no clerics, there's no healing spells, so you can only heal manually by using healing skills, one point at a time. The alignments are turned into Primal Powers - Order, Chaos, Good, and Evil - with a similar affiliation system to 13th Age, but with more system based bonuses. There's then the statement that being truly neutral means you reject the powers completely, and the sentence: "When an aligned character rolls dice against a Neutral character, they gain no bonus. None." Does it mean no alignment bonus? Who knows. Does it mean no bonuses at all? In a roll-under system, you then have nothing to set your target number. Magic: Spell points. One point per spell level. Spells are short descriptions with general rules, Black Hack style, but they still occupy 11 pages of the book. Alarm still screws 20th level rogues, but it sounds the alarm any time "a creature" enters the area, presumably meaning your rogue can piss the hell out of the caster with a couple bags of rats. But ready for the really sickening bit? There are no actual saving throws against any spells, the only restriction is that all spells are touch range. Oh, wait, no they aren't, you can spend an extra charge to change any range to line of sight, including sight through scrying. So save or suck spells are now just suck. Granted, the number of points you get is fairly low, but when a 2nd level wizard can once a day cause any target to fall asleep for 10 minutes with no save, it might no matter. Combat: intents are declared before initative, then players bid penalties to go first, with ties resulting in truly simultaneous actions. Any hit with any weapon requires a constitution check; on a failure it does 1 HP of damage plus 1 extra point per extra rolled on the attack (typical HP is 10 for a fighter). Well, except for spells, which can do up to 2d6. Thanks. Because attack rolls are roll-under based on the attacker's skill, AC instead represents your armor absorbing HP of damage. You can choose which hits it absorbs. Range is zone based a la Genesys. Equipment: you buy it. The coins have goofy names. Carrying limit is Diablo/Torchbearer style slots. Downtime: special rules for resting. The GM rolls d6s equal to the number of characters and hoses the group on a 10 or higher. If a character declares they're watching, the target number goes up. If a character declares they're scounting around, the GM rolls one less d6. Other than that, the players can choose from a menu of actions that include healing, and applying conditions to the other PCs. Status conditions are wholly positive because, hey, sacred cows. They're Hydrated which you get if someone goes to get water, Well-Fed which you get if someone hunts for food, Well-Rested which you get if you rest, and Joyful which you don't get because you have to have a fully-trained bard tell you a story and the Bardic College can't be chosen. You can level up your ability scores by taking Practice actions in downtime, and you level up your guild skills (including magic) by throwing money at your guild. Being a Wizard, for example, means that a new spell will set you back 100 silver benders (yes, that's the name, and yes, I'm imagining a goofy robot right now), while Thieves are expected to pay a monthly membership in exchange for ongoing support across cities. You have a level in your guild. You level up in the Thieves guild by paying gold wheels (yes, that's the name) and passing them valuable items. Fighters don't get levels in their guild, they just buy random stuff; and Wizards don't get to find out how to level up in their guild, even though it's critical for which spells you can learn. But the Thief guild levelling table has the exact same titles as the Wizard one and refers to "spells available". So.. well, who knows, it's probably one of those funky deliberate errors we're apparently supposed to like so much. Also, there aren't any listed spells above 6th level even though Wizards can learn up to level 9. There's appendices. The first one is an alternative system based on rolling blocks of d6s. The second one is some Play Dirty castoffs. The third one is a magic system based on invoking the Primal Powers and asking them for favors based on handwavium that ends with a dig at non-nar players saying they should go play World of Warcraft. Stay classy. Plus, how about that missing page? Well, the PDF page numbering lines up exactly and there's no obviously blank page, so it hasn't been done "properly" in simulation of a printing error like it might have been. The only candidate seems to be in the spell list section, where the Level 6 spells are out of alphabetical order. This is maybe supposed to mean there was a hypothetical missing page between them. Except there isn't, because there's a paragraph running from the bottom of the previous page to the top of this one. Given the unaltered page numbering it implies that either there isn't one or Wick decided to simulate a missing page without actually bothering to check how it came out in the typesetting, which makes it just missing content, and there's tons of that anyway. So, yea. I'm surprised it's much closer to The Black Hack than most D&Ds (The Wick Hack?), but with random stuff missed out, a few genuinely interesting ideas, and some swing-and-a-miss narrative mechanics that don't really fit with anything else. Edit: also, it turns out that the way to break Santa Vaca is to call upon our old friend the Punch-Witch. Let's see. First you are going to choose the One-Trick Pony stat set, which is 18 14 10 10 8 8. You are going to put your 18 into Con and your 14 into Int. Next you are going to choose your background. You are going to be an explorer. This gives you +1 Constitution, so you are now on Con 19 and a get free scout action whenever you camp. Now to join a guild. You are going to be a Wizard. Of course you are. That's the Bookmakers' Guild. The key here is that Con 19. Whenever you get hit, you make a Constitution Save to shrug off the hit. You now shrug off 95% of hits. Whenever you camp, you take two camp actions. Both of these are going to be Practice, plus your free Scout. To raise a stat requires a number of Practice actions equal to your current stat. That means 19 practice actions, but you get two per camp. The rules explicitly state that once a Stat reaches 20, you can never fail rolls on that stat, and that this is intended. So within 10 days, you will be a wizard who can never take physical damage. Your next step is to find a renegade member of the Blacksmiths' Guild who is willing to teach you how to fight. If you can find such a person, you can learn guild benefits at the cost of 7 Practice actions. So you can save all your gold for buying magic books, while having your dodgy mate teach you a new Fighter technique once every 4 days. It does mention that renegade guild members tend to be hunted down by the actual guild, and that the Blacksmiths' guild will send well-armed and trained warriors against you and your trainer. Because you cannot take physical damage, you no longer give a poo poo. Obviously, the way for the GM to deal with this is to bring in Jefferson Carter and screw the players by whatever means you feel like. hyphz fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Sep 23, 2018 16:53
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hyphz posted:random stuff missed out, a few genuinely interesting ideas, and some swing-and-a-miss narrative mechanics that don't really fit with anything else.
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Sep 23, 2018 18:12
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Wait, are those literally called Screw The Players points.
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Sep 23, 2018 20:19
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how can someone share a name with the movie character john wick and be bad, how can you waste that opportunity for yourself
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Sep 23, 2018 20:25
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John Wick probably resents those movies because they make it harder to Google himself.
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Sep 23, 2018 20:32
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paradoxGentleman posted:Wait, are those literally called Screw The Players points. No, they’re called Peril Points. But we know what they really are.
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Sep 23, 2018 20:35
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Today I realized the name of an ancient god I gave to my players is a real country in Africa.
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Sep 23, 2018 23:48
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One of my GMs did that to me the other day, with a lake in Africa.
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Sep 23, 2018 23:53
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Leraika posted:One of my GMs did that to me the other day, with a lake in Africa. Chad is a perfectly valid name
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Sep 24, 2018 00:13
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fool_of_sound posted:Chad is a perfectly valid name
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Sep 24, 2018 00:23
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fool_of_sound posted:Chad is a perfectly valid name 
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