MMO CHAT: I'll probably buy and play that game even though it looks like dogshit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > MMO CHAT: I'll probably buy and play that game even though it looks like dogshit

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Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Bleusilences posted:

The first everquest have servers running older versions of it and they start adding expansions after a set time. So like, for example, after 6 month they would add the burning crusade and start a new instence vanilla servers so eventually you would have multiple server running multiple version of the game.

Its called a 'progression server' and blizz would be unlikely to do that due to all the effort needed to actually walk a server through wow's patches.

# ? Sep 24, 2018 16:26

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# ? May 25, 2024 09:00

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

hobocrunch posted:

Yeah I sure do want to play on a server with the effective deletion of my character coming up in 2 years, that seems like a good idea.

Works for diablo season/ladder

Although in d3 they do convert your char to a normal one, but some people like starting over every season.

# ? Sep 24, 2018 16:27

Frog Act: Feb 10, 2012

Isn't wow classic already confirmed to be progression? Like it'll start out at 1.12 Drums of War or whatever but then they'll release BC and whatnot after a year or so

# ? Sep 24, 2018 16:27

Shy: Mar 20, 2010

# ? Sep 24, 2018 16:31

Pug Rodeo: Feb 20, 2007; BRING IT ON BRING IT ON YEAH

Toontown Online was pretty chill and should be the template going forward.

# ? Sep 24, 2018 18:30

FirstAidKite: Nov 8, 2009

Here is what I know about toontown online: there were different hub towns and each one had a disney character walking around in it like goofy or mckey etc etc etc

2 of these hubs were dedicated to donald though. Donald got 2 of them. That's good because Donald owns.

# ? Sep 24, 2018 18:48

Scaly Haylie: Dec 25, 2004

Unfortunately, Toontown Online has no gameplay outside of roaming the streets looking for business robots to murder.

# ? Sep 25, 2018 03:02

Krazuel: Nov 23, 2004; Not doing that again!

Frog Act posted:

Isn't wow classic already confirmed to be progression? Like it'll start out at 1.12 Drums of War or whatever but then they'll release BC and whatnot after a year or so

The only thing we know is 1.12.

# ? Sep 25, 2018 03:57

frajaq: Jan 30, 2009; #acolyte GM of 2014

Spam Musubi posted:

League of Legends MMO called RUNETERRA

old post but I unironically really want this

# ? Sep 25, 2018 15:31

Mormon Star Wars: Aug 13, 2005; It's a minotaur race...

Frog Act posted:

can you elucidate? I really liked the game's basic conceit vis-a-vis skills and crafting, driving cars and doing pvp in the desert was dope, and it honestly had an excellent loot system. when did that happen

Little Earth bought it so that the CEO could basically make it a pet project. After he bought it, he posted this:

quote:

Hi everyone,

It's now been about 3 weeks, and I want to take some time to speak directly to the Fallen Earth players.

First, I know there have been lots of questions asked on the forums. I have spent some time reading many of these, and I found them intricate, well written, and virtually impossible for me to answer right now for reasons that I'll explain below. I also want to acknowledge the many players who have reached out to me offering help or detailed walkthrus of some of the issues plaguing the game. That kind of detail helps. I've been in-game a little messing around with specific mechanics to familiarize myself with some of what has been talked about, and I'll continue to get up to speed.

Second, I don't have a long term plan or roadmap for the game yet. I'm still in the investigation phase.

So instead I thought I would write a short post to talk about where we're at and what we have to work with, because I think that will guide how we proceed.

The codebase for Fallen Earth is split into three parts:

- The original Icarus engine and tool set used to build and maintain the world

- The Frontend client / updater

- The Backend servers

Let's start with the Icarus Engine and tools.

Unfortunately, there is some code missing here. We have one developer who has been slowly reverse engineering the missing pieces just so we can get the tools back up and running. There has been some progress, and we obviously have the output from the engine, which is what the servers operate on. So in theory the tools could be entirely replaced some day. But the editor itself doesn't work right now.

Next the Frontend client.

We have all the code, and it is theoretically possible for us to patch the game or the updater. However this code is significantly old. It requires tools that are more than a decade in age, installations of old libraries, and very customized windows installs to even build everything. It is a matter of time before current operating systems wont be able to run this client. We need to think ahead and start migrating to something much newer and maintained. This means a complete rewrite using the framework of what has been built as a roadmap.

The challenge is that we also don't have any of the source art files. No 3DSMax files. No PSDs. No high rez textures at all. We have reached out to the original dev team to see if we can get these, but in their absence, we will need to create these files from the data that ships with the game. This is not at all ideal, since these files have all been compressed or down rezed to work. But it will at least be a starting point, and it will give us an idea of scope for the art, so we can assess how extensive it will be to rebuild.

Lastly the Backend client.

This is in the best shape. The developer who is currently assigned to the project has been able to piece everything together so that each server can be rebuilt and redeployed. I think this is where we can make the most short term improvement to the game by fixing bugs and exploits. Ultimately we will still want to migrate these systems into whatever the new framework is so they can be more easily maintained.

Where do we go from here?

Please don't read this as Little Orbit giving up, or even us being discouraged. I knew most of this before we took over GamersFirst. I just want to share where we are at, and that it's going to take some time to provide a clear roadmap of how we're going to rebuild. From there, we can look at the design and possible changes down the road.

I am still looking to schedule some time to answer as many questions as I can with players. I'll have Lixil post that update when we get a little closer.

Thanks,
Matt

Updated a little later:

quote:

This week was E3, so I didn't get a lot of time on Fallen Earth.

We have been able to extract the compiled game issues from the main data file.

We have been able to get about 40% through re-organizing all the C++ code. The main problem was that several core libraries were copied and included several times. It's impossible to know which version is the most up-to-date, but it's clear they aren't all the same. So we've started moving everything into a new repository with each library referenced and only included once. We still have to do this for all the server code and some of the front end code, but we were able to get some of the tools recompiling this way.

Thanks,
Matt

and

quote:

Hi everyone,

I've started this update multiple times, and for various reasons I set it aside. But my communication with the FE community has honestly been piss poor. Sometimes managing GamersFirst is like drinking from a firehose.

As I stated in an earlier post, I'm frustrated with the game right now. The code is an ancient mess that barely compiles under current development environments. We have nearly constant problems with server lag and stability. We're missing all the source art to the game.

And we have problems with cheaters. Above and beyond everything else, this last one is the most problematic.

I would prefer to spend our money on fixing the game - not on expensive anti-cheat. But at this point I can't ignore the issue any longer. Since my options are limited on the front end, we have begun working on a custom server-side cheat detection system. This wont be an overnight solution, but at least we can largely introduce it without disrupting the game - or even patching. I do want to thank several members of the community who stepped forward and helped provide copies of various cheats. Those are helping us tune things, so we can properly detect cheaters.

Aside from anti-cheat, we are making progress in a number of other areas.

The core server code is being completely written from the ground up. I would estimate we are about 10% complete so far. There's a lot to do, as Fallen Earth is a big game that supports a lot of features. I don't want to get everyone's hopes up. This is slow and tedious, but I'll keep updating the community.

Another area we have been working on is the lack of source art. I'm happy to say that we have been able to successful export a sizable amount of static game geometry, materials, and textures so we can recreate them in another engine. Our strategy is to first bring everything over so we can make sure the maps and areas still fit together properly based on the server-side data and placed instances. From there, we'll make a PBR pass on the materials. For those that don't know, PBR stands for Physics Based Rendering, and in a game like Fallen Earth, we can vastly improve the look of the game by simply adopting better rendering methods. After that we'll make a pass to tessellate and upgrade world terrain based on the original height map data. And then we'll look at specific upgrades to characters, monsters, etc.

The initial progress bringing over buildings is far enough along, that despite my better judgment, I'm going to provide screenshots of a small area we mocked up in-game. This is just work in progress. Still so much to do, but it's is a good start.

(Screenshots are here)

There's also a Q&A that has some pretty candid reveals, including an admission that, even counting non-steam players, the population is so low that other MMOs closed shop reaching that level.

Besides trying to re-develop the game, they are also having a heck of a time trying to access records about who was banned and why!

# ? Sep 25, 2018 17:03

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

Elite: Dangerous if David Braben pulls his head out of his rear end, deletes Powerplay and lets players gently caress up his perfect little galaxy with factions and constructions and stuff.

# ? Sep 25, 2018 17:12

Frog Act: Feb 10, 2012

Mormon Star Wars posted:

Little Earth bought it so that the CEO could basically make it a pet project. After he bought it, he posted this:

Updated a little later:

and

(Screenshots are here)

There's also a Q&A that has some pretty candid reveals, including an admission that, even counting non-steam players, the population is so low that other MMOs closed shop reaching that level.

Besides trying to re-develop the game, they are also having a heck of a time trying to access records about who was banned and why!

Hell yeah! Fallen Earth deserves this kind of treatment, it was an ambitious and pretty well executed game despite its many flaws

I had a friend who played the endgame for about two years, and he played a lot, as a member of one of the two active pvp guilds that sustained the entire server. If they could make that combat model not so janky I think Fallen Earth could be a moderate success

# ? Sep 25, 2018 20:41

Sarsapariller: Aug 14, 2015; Occasional vampire queen

Bedshaped posted:

Elite: Dangerous if David Braben pulls his head out of his rear end, deletes Powerplay and lets players gently caress up his perfect little galaxy with factions and constructions and stuff.

# ? Sep 25, 2018 22:44

Kortel: Jan 7, 2008; Nothing to see here.

frajaq posted:

old post but I unironically really want this

I wouldn't mind trying it. They're completely rebuilding it's lore and adds a lot more to it's universe rather than SUMMONERS! But it would likely be like Wildstar 2 in quality.

# ? Sep 26, 2018 00:02

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Bedshaped posted:

Elite: Dangerous if David Braben pulls his head out of his rear end, deletes Powerplay and lets players gently caress up his perfect little galaxy with factions and constructions and stuff.

This and actually trade a la EVE online. Not being to give my friend credits to start with when I ~~conned~~ convinced him to play was stunning.

# ? Sep 26, 2018 19:35

Agoat: Dec 4, 2012; I AM BAD AT GAMES; Lipstick Apathy

More MMOs where they don't hold your hand please

Let me gently caress people up and take over poo poo

# ? Sep 26, 2018 21:04

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Agoat posted:

More MMOs where they don't hold your hand please

Let me gently caress people up and take over poo poo

IMO if you aren't making a sandbox, mmos don't make sense, as I've been kinda saying lately in related topics.

For a theme park mmo just do the guild wars / destiny / division thing instead (but not poo poo)

Sandbox appeal seems more niche though, and that market is currently oversaturated with low effort, low content dayz clones like ARK and conan and Rust.

# ? Sep 26, 2018 21:14

Good Dumplings: Mar 30, 2011; Excuse my worthless shitposting because all I can ever hope to accomplish in life is to rot away the braincells of strangers on the internet with my irredeemable brainworms.

Zaphod42 posted:

IMO if you aren't making a sandbox, mmos don't make sense, as I've been kinda saying lately in related topics.

For a theme park mmo just do the guild wars / destiny / division thing instead (but not poo poo)

Sandbox appeal seems more niche though, and that market is currently oversaturated with low effort, low content dayz clones like ARK and conan and Rust.

? I don't know what other topics you post in, in what way do they not make sense? Particularly since PvP sandboxes seem kind of like the worst possible MMO configuration for retention; the inherent freedom available means players that aren't extremely focused on improving their performance and on competing with other players will quickly fall behind the rest, and so the server population tends to drop to the few players that enjoy PvP and are good enough at it to not be killed constantly. A non-PvP sandbox (or one where PvP losses didn't have a material impact on players) should retain much better (this and the flight mechanics are probably why Elite still has players given how little else it does have), but that doesn't seem to be done often.

Also can you elaborate on what would make theme park MMOs "not poo poo"?

# ? Sep 27, 2018 00:18

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Good Dumplings posted:

? I don't know what other topics you post in, in what way do they not make sense? Particularly since PvP sandboxes seem kind of like the worst possible MMO configuration for retention; the inherent freedom available means players that aren't extremely focused on improving their performance and on competing with other players will quickly fall behind the rest, and so the server population tends to drop to the few players that enjoy PvP and are good enough at it to not be killed constantly. A non-PvP sandbox (or one where PvP losses didn't have a material impact on players) should retain much better (this and the flight mechanics are probably why Elite still has players given how little else it does have), but that doesn't seem to be done often.

Also can you elaborate on what would make theme park MMOs "not poo poo"?

Not threads, I mean I've been posting here about the same thing but coming at it from other angles.

In the ways that I just enumerated? If you want a theme park, generally speaking mmos as they were (EQ, WoW) aren't really even ideal. Zones have to be big and spread out and have lots of spawns so people can avoid stepping on each others' toes, but if the zones were just instanced then that wouldn't be an issue. Dungeons and raids are already instanced because having people step on your toes in a raid isn't really acceptable post EQ. Its just taking it one more step to go to something like guild wars, destiny, or the division, (or anthem, or...) where you have a central hub with mmo levels of players online that you can team up with, but when you actually go out of town to play the game, you really just see the 4-5 players in your party, plus NPCs and maybe other players for PVP if the game facilitates that.

The whole idea that you'll run around in the middle of nowhere and bump into some other player and that adds significant value to your experience doesn't really hold up in a theme park. Other people are obstacles. They take away enemies that you could kill to complete your quests faster, they're a nuisance. The only players you really care about are the ones in your party or your guild.

In a sandbox mmo though that's less the case and the focus is more on the experience you have with other players and facilitating engagement between different people.

As for the "not poo poo" thing, I think you just completely misinterpreted me there. I was saying do like guild wars or destiny instead of having the huge server infrastructure that a true mmo requires. I only said (not poo poo) in parenthesis because destiny and the division are poo poo. Destiny and The Division and Anthem are IMO how that sort of theme park game should be from now on, focusing on the party experience. But Destiny and Division both happen to just have tons of issues and be kinda lovely, but that doesn't mean that whole gameplay model is bad, it just means those particular implementations are bad. That's what I was saying. Be like Destiny instead of WoW, but don't be poo poo like Destiny.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 02:54

kloa: Feb 14, 2007

I dunno, I really like FFXIV and it�s questing/open world.

You run into people, but you only need to kill like 3 of anything to finish the quest. Interactables and such are instanced, but you still get the satisfaction of discovering the area monsters are located, killing them, and most likely running into a FATE or two - public quests anyone in the vicinity can help with, and everyone gets credit for helping towards completing it. Then you move on to the next area of that map, or a whole new area.

You aren�t grinding 20 bear asses for an hour, and fighting over spawns with other people. Instanced stuff like in GW1 was cool, because the maps were tightly constructed, but all future games going instanced? No thanks.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 03:01

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

I am having a fun time in dragons dogma online even if it is pretty much dungeons and dragon.

The worst so far has been killing certain monsters to unlock new skills. But that doesn't seem so bad since it is varied enough.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 03:04

Glass of Milk: Dec 22, 2004; to forgive is divine

I think developers are realizing that leveling in a theme park MMO is stupid since people rush through areas they need to level through. It's still in a weird place, though, with end-level zones containing most of the players and content in things like GW2 or WOW. Meanwhile nobody is hanging around in Elwynn except perverted RPers.

Instead the zone stories should be pretty self-contained and rewards standardized. So you could go run heroic deadmines and get heroic gear that's on par with endgame zones but a pirate cosmetic theme.

The problem with this approach is that it could kind of cannibalize selling expansions because folks can get equivalent quality great without spending money.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 03:27

Good Dumplings: Mar 30, 2011; Excuse my worthless shitposting because all I can ever hope to accomplish in life is to rot away the braincells of strangers on the internet with my irredeemable brainworms.

Zaphod42 posted:

Not threads, I mean I've been posting here about the same thing but coming at it from other angles.

In the ways that I just enumerated? If you want a theme park, generally speaking mmos as they were (EQ, WoW) aren't really even ideal. Zones have to be big and spread out and have lots of spawns so people can avoid stepping on each others' toes, but if the zones were just instanced then that wouldn't be an issue. Dungeons and raids are already instanced because having people step on your toes in a raid isn't really acceptable post EQ. Its just taking it one more step to go to something like guild wars, destiny, or the division, (or anthem, or...) where you have a central hub with mmo levels of players online that you can team up with, but when you actually go out of town to play the game, you really just see the 4-5 players in your party, plus NPCs and maybe other players for PVP if the game facilitates that.

Yeah, this fits much better with how people seem to actually play MMOs, along with the optional public events kloa mentioned. I... kind of figured everything was instanced in MMOs now, WoW still doesn't do that :psyduck:

Zaphod42 posted:

The whole idea that you'll run around in the middle of nowhere and bump into some other player and that adds significant value to your experience doesn't really hold up in a theme park. Other people are obstacles. They take away enemies that you could kill to complete your quests faster, they're a nuisance. The only players you really care about are the ones in your party or your guild.

In a sandbox mmo though that's less the case and the focus is more on the experience you have with other players and facilitating engagement between different people.

Honestly, players are generally a nuisance in sandboxes too; you only PvP in them (a) when you want to and (b) you have little chance of losing anything valuable, in any other case people usually figure out what strategies are available to make non-consentual PvP a non-issue. Which makes me wonder why there's so few games with no/non-costly PvP, it seems like that'd be perfect for keeping a large audience.

Zaphod42 posted:

As for the "not poo poo" thing, I think you just completely misinterpreted me there. I was saying do like guild wars or destiny instead of having the huge server infrastructure that a true mmo requires. I only said (not poo poo) in parenthesis because destiny and the division are poo poo. Destiny and The Division and Anthem are IMO how that sort of theme park game should be from now on, focusing on the party experience. But Destiny and Division both happen to just have tons of issues and be kinda lovely, but that doesn't mean that whole gameplay model is bad, it just means those particular implementations are bad. That's what I was saying. Be like Destiny instead of WoW, but don't be poo poo like Destiny.

Ok, that's the part that gets at what I was thinking better: what makes Destiny poo poo?

# ? Sep 27, 2018 03:35

Ossipago: Nov 14, 2012; Muldoon

Destiny is poo poo because the devs actively show contempt for the players, doing things like removing the most loved game modes (6v6 anyone?) and saying they know better than you what you want. Or they did before numbers tanked. Now they're sometimes acting like they know they need customers to stay in business and building things that players actually want. It still reeks of bloated megacorp BS though.

The Division seems to have drastically improved since launch, to where it's not even the same game. I actually like it now. Somehow.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 04:09

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Good Dumplings posted:

Yeah, this fits much better with how people seem to actually play MMOs, along with the optional public events kloa mentioned. I... kind of figured everything was instanced in MMOs now, WoW still doesn't do that ?

Its strangely complicated. They've moved past having hard shards between servers, which is a GREAT enhancement, so if you are on server A and your friend is on server B, you can still party up, and you'll end up reconnecting to server B using your character from server A. When you log off your stats are still saved at server A. Its also possible that if the server is full or empty you could end up on server C or whatever.

But that said, no, the game generally tries to have a lot of people in a zone when possible. The overworld is still un-instanced, other than the separate dynamic server shards as described above. I guess you could say its instanced, but each instance fits hundreds of players still, they're not personal to you or your party. Which gives it that "mmo feel", but honestly... it means very little. Unless you're in an actual sandbox mmo where you can form an army and raid the enemy base or something like EVE.

Good Dumplings posted:

Honestly, players are generally a nuisance in sandboxes too; you only PvP in them (a) when you want to and (b) you have little chance of losing anything valuable, in any other case people usually figure out what strategies are available to make non-consentual PvP a non-issue. Which makes me wonder why there's so few games with no/non-costly PvP, it seems like that'd be perfect for keeping a large audience.

That's true, but in a sandbox other players are content. Sometimes they're a nuisance and sometimes they aren't, but like with a pvp focused multiplayer game, you're playing the game against other players. Where in a theme park, you're more playing out the story that has been prepared for you, and other players just kinda force you to wait in line to do the next theme park ride. There's definitely a downside to other players in a sandbox sometimes, especially if they grief, but they at least have the potential to be much more.

A theme park without other players is still a lot of content and can be very fun, its basically just an RPG at that point. But a sandbox without other players would be really tedious and pointless. The other players ARE the content.

Good Dumplings posted:

Ok, that's the part that gets at what I was thinking better: what makes Destiny poo poo?

They keep repeating the same mistakes over and over and over, making content obsolete too fast for there to be enough content to really enjoy, overreacting on balance, and a million other things. Vanilla destiny was an awful slow slog of a grind, then the expansions slowly made it more interesting and added better methods of itemization. Then the sequel totally reversed all that and made it lovely to grind gear again, and removed basically all differentiation between gear. Which they are now slowly adding back... in expansions that cost more money.

Destiny's FPS elements are EXCELLENT, top notch. But the RPG elements are just flat busted.

Its still a very fun game just to run around and shoot dudes because the FPS elements work so well, but the RPG progression is just... not good. Also the story is in complete shambles, each expansion seems to completely retcon the past expansion out of existence. The first game was about the darkness... which is now no longer a thing. There were huge story arcs in the first game's expansions... which are basically irrelevant now in D2. Its just... a mess.

Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Sep 27, 2018

# ? Sep 27, 2018 04:20

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Sandbox MMO w/ PvP will only be good if there of an equal amount of care given to the PvE content and an interesting world. Most important of all is fun core mechanics that aren't smashing hot keys. Really, get away from the hot keys and people would be down for almost anything.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 04:46

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Glenn Quebec posted:

Sandbox MMO w/ PvP will only be good if there of an equal amount of care given to the PvE content and an interesting world. Most important of all is fun core mechanics that aren't smashing hot keys. Really, get away from the hot keys and people would be down for almost anything.

Yeah I agree, and that's what games like ARK and Rust are lacking. And maybe Fallout? We'll see on that one.

And yeah, the core gameplay of the push-buttons EQ/WoW/FFXI/FFXIV/etc. style is just not super great. There's all kinds of really cool things built around it that keep you hooked, but the core is pretty boring. Replace that with like, dark souls combat, or something else properly interesting, and the game would be fun like crack.

Which is why its such a shame that Destiny is so lame. Also The Crew, a car mmo should be amazing, but they made a lot of mistakes.

The push-buttons thing was designed for back when latency was a bigger problem and it helps make the game more tolerant, but we can do better now. Its not a non-issue but its a solve-able issue.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 05:10

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

So there is a new game called Spellbreak I am in the pre-alpha for. When I first saw some footage I immediately was reminded of the spell combat in Asheron's Call that I have very fond memories of. When I looked up the team behind it turns out some of them are AC veterans so I think it is somewhat intentional. It is a battle royal game so I realize it isn't an MMO, but I know a lot of you have fond memories of Asheron's Call so I thought I would make a quick post. It is pre-alpha so it is missing a ton of stuff and not that great yet, but in the month I have been in they have actually made pretty significant progress. They do playtests on Wednesday and Sunday nights.

Video that shows off some gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idow_cuMvHE

I have a referral link that gets you priority for pre-alpha access (I don't get anything from you using my link and you can sign up on the actual site if you want): https://proletariat.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a3d017f9122d9a1b603839ed4&id=49127653b5&e=64ca0cbbe4

# ? Sep 27, 2018 06:23

Philonius: Jun 12, 2005

Zaphod42 posted:

That's true, but in a sandbox other players are content. Sometimes they're a nuisance and sometimes they aren't, but like with a pvp focused multiplayer game, you're playing the game against other players. Where in a theme park, you're more playing out the story that has been prepared for you, and other players just kinda force you to wait in line to do the next theme park ride. There's definitely a downside to other players in a sandbox sometimes, especially if they grief, but they at least have the potential to be much more.

Exactly. To take EVE online as an example, the story of that game is not in questlines or expansions or NPCs doing stuff. It's player actions. It's huge player-run empires going to war over resources. It's player spies infiltrating enemy alliances and pulling off spectacular heists.

Right now goonswarm is wrapping up a big war we started in the north. That war wasn't scripted, or part of any developer created story. It's because we wanted to kick CO2's teeth in, because they betrayed us two years ago when we were at our lowest point, and we wanted revenge.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 11:19

Mr. Pickles: Mar 19, 2014

I've said it before and I'll say it again: In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only WoW

# ? Sep 27, 2018 12:31

RagnarokZ: May 14, 2004; Emperor of the Internet

D-Pad posted:

So there is a new game called Spellbreak I am in the pre-alpha for. When I first saw some footage I immediately was reminded of the spell combat in Asheron's Call that I have very fond memories of. When I looked up the team behind it turns out some of them are AC veterans so I think it is somewhat intentional. It is a battle royal game so I realize it isn't an MMO, but I know a lot of you have fond memories of Asheron's Call so I thought I would make a quick post. It is pre-alpha so it is missing a ton of stuff and not that great yet, but in the month I have been in they have actually made pretty significant progress. They do playtests on Wednesday and Sunday nights.

Video that shows off some gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idow_cuMvHE

I have a referral link that gets you priority for pre-alpha access (I don't get anything from you using my link and you can sign up on the actual site if you want): https://proletariat.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=a3d017f9122d9a1b603839ed4&id=49127653b5&e=64ca0cbbe4

Oh sweet poo poo on a stick. It's SEVENTEEN seconds, that poo poo could literally be all there is off the game.

It also looks like everything is moving through syrup.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 14:55

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

No way dude when that battle royale game comes out in six years and when the genre is all but completely stale, it'll be great.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 15:24

Sindai: Jan 24, 2007; i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Zaphod42 posted:

The whole idea that you'll run around in the middle of nowhere and bump into some other player and that adds significant value to your experience doesn't really hold up in a theme park. Other people are obstacles. They take away enemies that you could kill to complete your quests faster, they're a nuisance. The only players you really care about are the ones in your party or your guild.

This hasn't been true in WoW for a long time. When multiple people hit a mob they all get credit for it, and mobs respawn faster if they're being killed frequently so it's not possible to completely clean out an area. I'm always glad to see a bunch of other players are doing the same world quest as me since we all finish it more quickly and easily.

Sindai fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Sep 27, 2018

# ? Sep 27, 2018 16:27

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Sindai posted:

This hasn't been true in WoW for a long time. When multiple people hit a mob they all get credit for it, and mobs respawn faster if they're being killed frequently so it's not possible to completely clean out an area. I'm always glad to see a bunch of other players are doing the same world quest as me since we all finish it more quickly and easily.

Even then, how often do you talk to a stranger in wow or interact with them in a significant way?

In EQ you used to actually form friendships as you were forced to work together. EVE is all about meeting people and forming corps and alliances and backstabbing each other.

Wow is more convenient which is nice but means other than seeing some randos doing the same world quest, maybe you use group finder real quick to punk an overworld rare spawn, then you go back to your business.

The whole idea of the mmo is that you'd stop and be like "well done heroes, thanks for helping me with that boss. What are you guys questing today?" But in reality nobody wants to talk to strangers and if you don't have to you won't.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 16:34

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth: Apr 23, 2004

Okay but EQ/UO were literally the only options worth mentioning in their heyday (I mean what are they gonna do, run off and play Meridian 59?). EVE is literally the only game of its type. You can get away with poo poo like mandatory grouping and forcing the player to work with others through bad gameplay when they don't have any other choice. But from Vanguard to Wildstar, these HARDCORE MANDATORY GROUPING OLD SCHOOL MMOs come out and tank because nobody wants to put up with that bullshit anymore and everyone has gotten older so we aren't 18 with time to kill anymore. I'm not going to sit for 6 hours on a camp because I got a good group and am getting good XP because good lord if I have a free 6 hours I'm not going to waste it on MMO poo poo. :v:

# ? Sep 28, 2018 08:18

Mr. Pickles: Mar 19, 2014

just play MUDs

# ? Sep 28, 2018 08:32

Frog Act: Feb 10, 2012

MMOs are like when they banned clove cigarettes when I was 14. I loved them and was addicted to them, but its probably for the best and all you can get these days is a lovely ersatz anywho.

# ? Sep 28, 2018 15:14

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:

Okay but EQ/UO were literally the only options worth mentioning in their heyday (I mean what are they gonna do, run off and play Meridian 59?). EVE is literally the only game of its type. You can get away with poo poo like mandatory grouping and forcing the player to work with others through bad gameplay when they don't have any other choice. But from Vanguard to Wildstar, these HARDCORE MANDATORY GROUPING OLD SCHOOL MMOs come out and tank because nobody wants to put up with that bullshit anymore and everyone has gotten older so we aren't 18 with time to kill anymore. I'm not going to sit for 6 hours on a camp because I got a good group and am getting good XP because good lord if I have a free 6 hours I'm not going to waste it on MMO poo poo.

You're missing my point. (Sigh, goons are so bad at context) We've been having a back and forth discussion for a page and you come in and take the last post out of context, you're gonna miss some things. Its not practical to include every detail of the conversation in every post, or we'd end up with posts that are pages long. Scroll up.

I'm not saying every mmo should be a huge sandbox where the game is oppressive and you have to work together.

I'm saying if you're making an mmo that isn't oppressive and you don't have to work together, then don't make it a full mmo, make it a destiny/division style sorta-mmo instead. You get all the same things without all the headache.

The only games which need the full mmo infrastructure are games like EVE, which if anything are niche, like you yourself just argued. That's the whole point dude.

# ? Sep 28, 2018 15:52

Orv: May 4, 2011

Zaphod42 posted:

(Sigh, goons are so bad at context)

Where is my 100x blown up ironicat.

# ? Sep 29, 2018 12:01

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# ? May 25, 2024 09:00

Drinkfist: Aug 2, 2005

Third World Reggin posted:

I am having a fun time in dragons dogma online even if it is pretty much dungeons and dragon.

The worst so far has been killing certain monsters to unlock new skills. But that doesn't seem so bad since it is varied enough.

I don't think the Beholder in Dungeons and Dragons can eat you with its eyelids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ER8BjVU2o

# ? Sep 30, 2018 09:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > MMO CHAT: I'll probably buy and play that game even though it looks like dogshit

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